Now. Honestly believe we'll be 12/13 points off the top 4 end of the year if changes aren't made.
Sack and interim manager till the end of the season
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Sack and interim manager till the end of the season
A cursory glance at social media and from talking to other fans tell me that this is the worst it's ever been for the past 30 years. Fans feel disconnected from the team which is both alarming and awful. It's frightening.
Same as he ever was.
Yeah right now. Also better to hire new manager this season so he will get good chance to check the players before next summer. Will be in better position when it comes to transfers.
His demeanour, mind-boggling decisions (taking out our best attacking players when we're supposed to go for a win) and team selection (starting Herrera and MCT at CB) to his point.
That's fair. Personally I can understand why he was kept in the summer considering a 2nd finish in the league and FA cup final. And I wouldn't normally be in favour of a sacking only 13 games into the new season unless there was a long term strategy choice available like Liverpool did with Klopp. I was against sacking Villas Boas mid season (after two horrible 5-0 losses) although I wanted him gone in the summer. We only got Tim Sherwood in, not an ideal situation in my mind and created more turnmoil than it was worth.
However, in this case I think I would also be in the Mourinho out right now side, mainly because of all the off the field drama and public slating of players. But if I was a United fan I would prefer to keep him while a longer term strategy/managerial appointment was in place and evaluate in the summer. But with the self-destructive path Mourinho seem to be on I'm not sure it's possible. The situation seem a little similar with Conte last season, but he remained in charge until the summer and also won the FA Cup.
I think it all depends on whether we can get our no 1 candidate now. If the answer is no then we stick to what we've got, maybe by not allowing him to spend the ridiculous money he probably want to spend on yet another CB. If yes, then I am all in favour in bringing that man now. That will give him time to analyse the squad and make the necessary signings in the summer.
Sorry mate that's a pipe dream, just as you rate a player highly does in no way mean he can play a role he's not accustomed to at a high level. Pep would buy a specialist, Pereira would be surplus and moved on.
I honestly feel the man is digging his own grave..
Everytime we had the beginning of something stable and good, he goes on to make unnecessary changes that the fans did not want and upsets the team while proving the fans know more than this dinosaur
First off was the Sanchez and martial debacle when we wanted Sanchez on the right... It took 10 months before he returned us back to where we were in January (reinstating martial)
And now we have Sanchez playing better up top but the first chance he has to put his favourite man toy back in, he does that to the detriment of the team
The annoying thing is the decisions he's making are the ones that nobody else in the world will make (especially we the fans) and they are not just working out at all... It just makes him look mad and out of touch
Everytime we had the beginning of something stable and good, he goes on to make unnecessary changes that the fans did not want and upsets the team while proving the fans know more than this dinosaur
First off was the Sanchez and martial debacle when we wanted Sanchez on the right... It took 10 months before he returned us back to where we were in January (reinstating martial)
And now we have Sanchez playing better up top but the first chance he has to put his favourite man toy back in, he does that to the detriment of the team
The annoying thing is the decisions he's making are the ones that nobody else in the world will make (especially we the fans) and they are not just working out at all... It just makes him look mad and out of touch
After draws and losses he always talks about mentality and philosophy not being right. We has been here for 2.5 years and still talks like he was just appointed. We do need better players in some positions but, if he can't even motivate the team and instill some level of winning mentality, he has no business being here. We have negative GD after 13 games... Nobody can convince me the team is that bad.
Since we are likely to miss out on CL, and that appears to be the only thing the Americans care about, we might finally see him sacked.
Since we are likely to miss out on CL, and that appears to be the only thing the Americans care about, we might finally see him sacked.
I hate watching us play. It's complete dross. There's so little to enjoy about this team. Under Moyes you had the emergence of Januzaj; under LVG we had Martial, Rashford, TFM all exciting prospects. Two and half years into this Mourinho tenure, besides Shaw finally establishing himself, I'm really struggling to find any positives. He insists on anchoring tugboats like Matic and Fellaini in MF when we'd play much better football if we swapped them for the much more technical Fred and Pereira. Giving new deals to the likes of Ashley Young as well! I mean WTF!! Almost begging Fellaini to stay when we can't tie down KEY players like DDG and Martial. It's a complete fecking shambles and whilst not solely to blame, Mourinho has played a big part in the deep, deep shite we currently find ourselves in.
Get the man out now!
Get the man out now!
Interim till the end of the season is the best solution by far. The next full time appointment needs to be made by the DOF.
we played really nice football 2010 and 2011.
Much like he had Delph playing LB the majority of the last year's record breaking season?
Or how he has KDB playing CMF? Or how he has Bernardo Silva successfully replacing the same KDB in the CMF role despite B. Silva being a winger/#10? Or the story of David Silva who's a proper CMF now despite he was AMF/#10 throughout his career? Not to mention the players he played in false #9 role just during his time at City.
This is my favourite post from that thread. The poster is talking about Pochettino and how he would fare at United.Here ya go chicken https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mourinho-set-to-sign-contract-extension-done.435661/.
I have one post in there and I said “fantastic”. I feel sick
At least I’m not one of the many in here that just want to be right on the internet and I could adjust my opinion based on current circumstances rather than blind arrogance.
Well Spurs aren't top but apart from that...
I don't think we should stick with Mourinho in case we can't get number 1 target manager in atm. That might prove quite costly for us in regards of the star players staying with the club.
Long term planning should be a priority, getting an interim manager whilst trying to secure the number 1 target for now or for the next season. Of course I agree that getting the number 1 target right now would be the ideal scenario.
Look, if it means spending ridiculous money to release our no 1 target from his club then I'd say lets go for it. We'll pay that money either to replace the players heading towards the end of the contract who will leave if toxic is still around or to buy him his annual expensive CB he's been bitching about since summer. However, I can't see how an interim manager could help. There aren't many managers around who'll accept an interim role and those who would are probably not good enough for us.
And for god sake lets get things right this time round. We need a person whose great in man management and who is quite open to attacking fast paced, ball to feet football. That's what SAF was and that's exactly what Moyes/LVG/Mou weren't.
Mou needs to go but we need some real changes at the club. Woodward is a genius on the money side but time and time again he failed on the football side. We take too much time to make players sign new contracts, we're unable to get rid of the deadwood and we overpay both in terms of salary and fees. If you ask me we need a joint CEO to tackle the football side. We need a top quality DOF and a top quality head of recruitment. Once that's sorted then we can bring a manager like Howe or Pochs and still be successful.
They have to be United fans on tour.
Needs to go now. The negativity and gloom needs to be lifted.
Would prefer an interim whilst we look for a new manager (and DOF!). However, if we've identified someone who can take over now then get him in and use the rest of this season to prepare for the next one.
This season is pretty much over.
Title wise yes. The squads got enough talent in it to win an FA Cup and make a half decent run in the CL (QF) if we don't give up on it already, and get someone in.
is there any United fan who actually wants Jose to stay ? if so what's the reasoning behind it ?
Judging by your first sentence I assume Poch to be your #1 target. I myself also have him as a top target for us but I just can't see it happen at this moment in time and quite frankly if we stick with Mourinho till the end of the season I honestly don't think we'll be able to pry Poch away from the Spurs, especially if he continues in the same trend. Madrid will be all over him come summer and possibly even Bayern, where he will finally have a chance to win big trophies.
I completely agree with the fact we need a modern manager, and we need a proper DOF, but one with actual executive power and not some Woodward's puppet. It's quite a conundrum really.
The more I think about it the more I'm sure we'll have to make peace with a season or 2 without CL football, which would be OK with me if it meant we are to rebuild in a proper way, getting a modern attacking manager, appointing a DOF, taking away most of the power from Ed when it comes to footballing decisions.
Now if that kind of rebuild is to happen the thing I'm worried about is our star players contracts coming up, DDG, Martial, Pogba...not saying they'd be impossible to replace, but that it would make things a bit more difficult for sure.
Only thing I'm a bit confused with is joint CEO? You mean someone for Ed to share his power with, basically his equal or you're thinking of a DOF to deal with the football side of things?
Plenty of them around here but you won't hear any reasonable arguments from them, just blind faith and mandatory "let's agree to disagree" when their ego can't handle the harsh truth of them being wrong when it comes to Mourinho. Most of the time they're patting each other on the back, praising the usual generic post's in which they're trying to paint Mourinho as a victim of irrational hate, whilst always trying to downplay or straight-up ignoring all the bad stuff Mourinho had done and said so far.
Holding midfielder and left back stand in are 2 very different roles, Milner was also good there for Pool. Not sure why you're then harping on about experienced established proven world class players. But what the hey...
Look, I don't care whose the next manager is. What I do care about is for us to learn from our previous mistakes. Moyes/LVG/Mou has two things in common. They are both poor in man management and they both insist defensive/bland football. Which ironically considering SAF was exactly the opposite to that. The guy used attacking football and was absolutely top notch in terms of man management. That's not all. Football in general is moving away from the typical strict disciplinarians who see themselves as chess players with players being mere pawns (Conte, Capello, Mourinho, LVG etc) and more into people with great man management skills (Klopp, Allegri, Ancelotti, Pep). So why on earth are moving out from a style of managers SAF was a pioneer in?
Regarding my second part separating the football side from the money side was something SAF kept hammering about but that it never really happened at United. What's better time to do so now when its evident that Woodward is out of depth on the football side, which lets face it is fair enough considering its not his area of expertise? Thus I think we need two CEOs with Woodward handling what he does best (money) while someone experienced in football whose got plenty of contacts and experience in that role handling the football side. The latter will be the one making sure contracts are signed, that we'll get value from our deadwood, that we're able to offload players whom we're not using before they become worthless and to bring in people at the club who know their job well rather then emotional/knee jerking moves meant to either appease the fans :cough: Carrick/Butt :cough: or the manager. Meanwhile One of the Glazers can act as the pinnacle of the pyramid to resolve disputes in rare occasions when the money side clash with the football side.
Bernardo Silva and Fabian Delph surely are well established world class players.
I'm just making an example as to why some players under a right manager, playing in a right system can do a great job in a role they're not accustomed with.
He's not going to make it at United regardless.
I agree with the first part buddy, DoF and a manager who's great at man management, player development and had the ability to make us play "the United way" should be top priority. And I really do hope we're heading in that direction.
The 2nd part although I agree with the reasoning behind it, I doubt it will ever happen for us to have 2 CEO's, Woodword is Glazers main man and getting another CEO to share power with would never work IMO. Marotta would have been perfect for that role.
It sounds ridiculous but you're right. This is the way I've felt for the best part of two years, probably longer. Case in point being when he dropped Pogba for McTominay and Fellaini in the two Sevilla matches last season.
He's got away with a lot of stuff no other manager would on the basis that he's Jose Mourinho.
If we keep him, he will want to spend money in January.
He is playing two of his purchases in Lukaku and Matic. Both of whom are in appalling form.
Three of his buys, Fred, Dalot, Bailly can't even get into this shite team.
So, do we give him more money to buy reserve-team players and failures?
Backing him, when he can't get anywhere near the beat out of players he has coached for 2.5 years, is ludicrous , and reduces the ability of his replacement, to bring in players to suit their own vision for the team.
If he doesn't get the backing in January, he won't quit on principle. He will sabotage us to force his sacking, and secure his golden handshake. By which time, some players will be securing their own exits, and the season will be spectacularly painful and damaging.
Get rid NOW!
He is playing two of his purchases in Lukaku and Matic. Both of whom are in appalling form.
Three of his buys, Fred, Dalot, Bailly can't even get into this shite team.
So, do we give him more money to buy reserve-team players and failures?
Backing him, when he can't get anywhere near the beat out of players he has coached for 2.5 years, is ludicrous , and reduces the ability of his replacement, to bring in players to suit their own vision for the team.
If he doesn't get the backing in January, he won't quit on principle. He will sabotage us to force his sacking, and secure his golden handshake. By which time, some players will be securing their own exits, and the season will be spectacularly painful and damaging.
Get rid NOW!
Under our current manager? Most definitely not.
The most damning part must be the fact that after 2.5 years of his rule, close to 400 million spent, performances like that vs. CP aren't a surprise, but reality, something we're very much accustomed to nowadays.
Well if the shoe fits, the common denominator seems to be Jose.
We've multiple players now refusing to sign on again with us from Mata, Herrera, De Gea and Martial.
Nowt presumptuous in my sentiments at all as I've provided actual quotes, that would make it factual.
As for the 2nd part, this argument is ridiculous when you look at Jose's own investments. By and large they have either left or are floating around the club doing sweet fa in reality. From Fred continually being benched and ignored (yet is performing better than Jose's go to guy Matic and plays religiously), Dalot who posted on Saturday his frustration at yet again being ignored for selection and Jose picking Darmian ahead of him and jet lagged Valencia (his excuse, Darmian had played more than Dalot, no he hadn't, both had 1 start this season each), Sanchez (bench) and Lukaku favoured yet again, Bailly is lucky if he even makes the bench anymore and finally Mikha and Zlatan both gone.
I'm sorry but if LVG can shift out more players in a window less with the same Chief Exec to work with, Jose has zero excuses for not moving players on.
He simply hasn't a notion what he wants from his team quite clearly.
From the start of his era i was for Mourinho because i am his fan from his Porto days. Until City game I still thought that he is the best coach for us, the best coach in the world and that the things will be better and that is why i defended him on every thread here.
I still think that for lot of things he is attacked without reason, i still think that his first 2 seasons were very very good, i still think that he is great manager, i still think that it would be different story if Ed bought him defender and right winger BUT now i realize that he needs to be sacked. I admit now that we play bad, that he doesn't pick best team and that with him we will lose only 4 players who we can't afford to lose( Dave, Pogba, Martial and Alexis for whom i think that he is still fantastic player) and we will not finish 4th which will be disaster for us.
I will still defend him when people say that he did bad job here because i repeat, first two seasons were very good and he really has some excuses for this season but it is time for him to go. With him things will not be better.
It was so hard for me to write this. Sorry Jose
I still think that for lot of things he is attacked without reason, i still think that his first 2 seasons were very very good, i still think that he is great manager, i still think that it would be different story if Ed bought him defender and right winger BUT now i realize that he needs to be sacked. I admit now that we play bad, that he doesn't pick best team and that with him we will lose only 4 players who we can't afford to lose( Dave, Pogba, Martial and Alexis for whom i think that he is still fantastic player) and we will not finish 4th which will be disaster for us.
I will still defend him when people say that he did bad job here because i repeat, first two seasons were very good and he really has some excuses for this season but it is time for him to go. With him things will not be better.
It was so hard for me to write this. Sorry Jose
Arsene Wenger? Kovacs? (if Bayern is done with him)
I'm surprised there are no rumours of Jose being sacked this morning, as I'm almost as surprised that Mark Hughes is in a job. Then again, Hughes' side create more chances than United.
If we persist with Jose then I see the following:
- A last 16 hammering in the Champs League (assuming he does not botch the next 2 games with his tactics)
- Almost certain failure to qualify for the 19/20 Champs League. With a possibility we also fail to qualify for the Europa (Probably relying on a former rival to win a cup and we take that spot)
- Knocked out of the FA Cup in the earlier round to a Championship or Prem relegation fodder team
- Continue to play 'fear ball and 'hoof ball, as we make even relegation fodder look like Barcelona. We will win more than we lose, but also expect lots of draws and a mid-table finish
- Old Trafford continues its transition to the Theatre of Snores, while its fear factor is completely eradicated
- Panicked buys in January and a lack of a strategy for the summer window add more overpayed dross to the team
- bang average players who should get shown the door, get bloated contracts in a panic
- our best players are driven out of the door on a free/ panic sell as they refuse to sign a contract in this toxic culture
- our promising generation of academy players whither on the vine, apart from a lucky 1 or 2 (who are well over 6 foot) who get the occasional chance.
- the culture of low standards is established, as is the mentaility that good performances get you a team place
- our 'brand' continues to be damaged due to the dire football and loss of success.
- we struggle to attract high calibre players due to the above point
- our fan base stagnates or even declines due to the above point before last
- we keep getting shown last on motd and start getting less games shown on BT/ Sky
Have I missed anything out, or is there still a good reason that we should stick with him?
If we persist with Jose then I see the following:
- A last 16 hammering in the Champs League (assuming he does not botch the next 2 games with his tactics)
- Almost certain failure to qualify for the 19/20 Champs League. With a possibility we also fail to qualify for the Europa (Probably relying on a former rival to win a cup and we take that spot)
- Knocked out of the FA Cup in the earlier round to a Championship or Prem relegation fodder team
- Continue to play 'fear ball and 'hoof ball, as we make even relegation fodder look like Barcelona. We will win more than we lose, but also expect lots of draws and a mid-table finish
- Old Trafford continues its transition to the Theatre of Snores, while its fear factor is completely eradicated
- Panicked buys in January and a lack of a strategy for the summer window add more overpayed dross to the team
- bang average players who should get shown the door, get bloated contracts in a panic
- our best players are driven out of the door on a free/ panic sell as they refuse to sign a contract in this toxic culture
- our promising generation of academy players whither on the vine, apart from a lucky 1 or 2 (who are well over 6 foot) who get the occasional chance.
- the culture of low standards is established, as is the mentaility that good performances get you a team place
- our 'brand' continues to be damaged due to the dire football and loss of success.
- we struggle to attract high calibre players due to the above point
- our fan base stagnates or even declines due to the above point before last
- we keep getting shown last on motd and start getting less games shown on BT/ Sky
Have I missed anything out, or is there still a good reason that we should stick with him?
Now and get an interim in. Too soon to be committing our future to a new manager.
Like why wait. Every week its get harder to save our season.
I want him gone right now, and I will give you my reason why. The longer he stays the more trouble we are going to have to retain the likes of Pogba, De Gea, Martial. Players that I consider to be key to achieving better things.
Plus I wouldnt trust him with a penny in January when he has bought such dross as Lukaku, Fred etc.
Plus I wouldnt trust him with a penny in January when he has bought such dross as Lukaku, Fred etc.
You can tell that half of our players actually hate him. Is it any surprise, considering he can’t go two days without chewing them out in the press?
The bloke is toxic. You can blame the players, but we could change our entire first XI and Mourinho will still be in the press calling them out after they lose. He alienates everyone, there’s no siege mentality, he’s just a prick that his players can’t stand - and with good reason. Needs to be gone ASAP so we can actually get some morale back in the camp.
The bloke is toxic. You can blame the players, but we could change our entire first XI and Mourinho will still be in the press calling them out after they lose. He alienates everyone, there’s no siege mentality, he’s just a prick that his players can’t stand - and with good reason. Needs to be gone ASAP so we can actually get some morale back in the camp.
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