As much as I'd like to end this era, I really wouldn't want Carrick and McKenna if that was the alternative. Promoting them when they have culpability for the dross we're seeing doesn't seem like a good idea.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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As much as I'd like to end this era, I really wouldn't want Carrick and McKenna if that was the alternative. Promoting them when they have culpability for the dross we're seeing doesn't seem like a good idea.
At this rate, striving for 4th spot would be a monstrous task already and its saddening cos not even December yet. When is the last time we gave up hope on the title as early as November?
Title? I think there is little hope we can get top 4 from here.
There are quite a few fans who kinda like us being a bit shit. I’ve only been to a handful of aways since Fergie left (so I’m not gonna pretend I’m an authority - though I’ve been to enough games of football in general to know how shit works) but there’s always a hefty section who enjoy the experience of going to a game more than the actual game. That’s just football.
I’m seeing the other side of the coin with England atm. A lot of the travelling fans I know from previous tournaments, who suffered gladly through the dark days, are now weirdly a tad resentful of how fashionable we are. Because that’s easy. And there’s no cred in getting on board now. At the Croatia game, the pre-game drink chats at the Green Man were way less about “who went to Russia this summer, then?” than they were “who went to all the shit tournaments before, and thus properly appreciated Russia, then?”...
When people say there’s a big difference between match going and armchair fans, they’re right. But not so much because one cares significantly more than the other... more because one values the experience in an entirely different way.
And Jose, with his seige mentality bullshit, is a master of playing into all that.
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Today felt so much like when we got beat at home to Norwich under LVG in Dec 2015. Can't help thinking it will go like that season until top 4 is impossible.
This. People are in denial if they think there is a simple fix, like just getting a new manager. It's better to face reality now rather than be too disappointed later.
That's as ridiculous of an idea as having Blind in midfield.
Guardiola would have been allowed to add 8/9 players like Mourinho has, and within 2.5 years (but 1 really), he'd have us playing with a proper style, identity and attacking swagger. Same with Klopp.
I don't believe removing Mourinho solves all our problems but it get rid of a huge one. To truly solve it, you'd have to get in the right replacement. And while there are issues behind scenes they tend to be overblown a tad. Like I said in a post sometime back you don't need this incredible structure behind the scenes to ascertain the talent of Mane, Robertson and VVD, nor to improve your team collectively and get them playing as a proper unit.
Whether we win the league or not depends on many factors such as how good City and Liverpool are, but for United to be playing fluid attacking footballing, signing players that fit/suit our system and improving everyone within, will be achieved if we sign the right manager.
No one thinks there is a simple fix.
But keeping Jose isn't part of the fix. How is that so difficult to understand? His toxic personality means him staying here does more harm than good. He is constantly slating players in public and picking fights with them. And this isn't a once off for Jose either. I remember at Real at the end of his tenure he was fighting Ronaldo, Ramos and even Pepe amongst others. Same thing happened at Chelsea.
Please tell me how giving Jose six more months will help us. Chelsea sacked him in December last time when he had them in 16th place. I can see us slipping even further down the table if we don't act.
There is simply no logic in staying in this abusive relationship.
Guardiola was allowed to sign players.
Just like Jose was. But Jose signs them and then benches them.
I completely agree that we need to do more than just fire this manager. We probably were wrong to hire him in the first place.
Sickening that there aren't even rumours of him getting sacked tbh.
I think the way the club has handled this issue is amateurish. Everybody could see he is short of ideas on how to progress us and we have steadily declined since his time here,at least in the quality of our football,.
Is just unfair what we are made to endure, the football is shite, Players are shite, Jose is shite and the whole structure is shite.
Is just unfair what we are made to endure, the football is shite, Players are shite, Jose is shite and the whole structure is shite.
Oh mate great post.
We were truly privileged to have had SAF.
How is this still an argument when a team like Chelsea, who've chiselled out their place in the elite via a decade +worth of notoriously dull and efficient non-style football, can suddenly become an attractive attacking side in a single summer? Or when Arsenal, the perpetual whipping boys of the top 6, can suddenly gain the consistently and composure they've been lacking in the dying days of their last regime, with nare a significant signing? Or even the likes of fecking Leeds, can become an entirely new sexy hipster entity in their league seemingly over night? And yet we're still trotting out this tired old bollocks that the only reason a team with the significant footballing talents of Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, Rashford, Mata et al, can't score a single goal against Crystal fecking Palace at home is because of their uniquely unfathomable inability to play with each other? As if an over-balance of too many good footballers in a football team is an obvious automatic recipe for horrendous shit on a stick football. I mean....AARGGGGH!! How are we still doing this dance!?
Everyone knows he's got to go, Woodward and the Board included. But they won't sack him mid-season, they'll do what they always do and wait until 4th is impossible.
Meanwhile, we've still got another 5 months or so of this dross to put up with.
Meanwhile, we've still got another 5 months or so of this dross to put up with.
I've given up on him going mid-season, had some hope a few weeks back but it doesnt seem like he'll be removed any time soon. I do expect him to be gone by the end of the season w/out top 4.
The thing is, if everyone knows he's got to go it means 4th won't be obtainable anyway so why even wait ?
Bro, I fear for you
Some posts will drive you to insanityGlad more posters are seeing it. I gave up after Sevilla and that press conference afterwards. That summarised Jose today, football and personality wise. Should have been sacked immediately, but got a new contract later. There must be club members who believe the bollocks this guy is serving up. We expected the meltdown, but without the promised heights, complete failure it is. And now this will slowly drag on and the damage could be enormous come the end of the season if we lose our few top players. He could set us back more than the previous 2 managers and leave us worse off than he took over. Someone sack him ffs
Not sure any newspaper or other media outlet would risk that after the last fiasco.
Agree. Wanted to give him more time but after seeing Sanchez and Fred on the bench, Pereira and Herrera not even getting a sniff and Lukaku, Matic and Fellaini getting game time and his really annoying press conferences, I changed my vote and am firmly in the out camp now. He just simply has to go.
Can't think of one good reason to keep Mourinho. Boring football (unless we go behind in the second half). Blames everyone but himself. Miserable git.
Anyone think there's a chance he'll be gone this week? Early christmas present for the fans?
Anyone think there's a chance he'll be gone this week? Early christmas present for the fans?
Yesterday was RIP top 4. The most optimistic projections would have had us cut the gap down to 4 points if Tottenham lost and we took care of business. Instead we're now 9 points adrift, 10 if you include goal difference.
Don't think Woodward or the board actually know how to interpret the table because Jose turning things around and making top 4 has been highly unlikely for months already. The time to act was back then when it was still salvageable. Hope the savings on that top 4 sack clause is worth it
Don't think Woodward or the board actually know how to interpret the table because Jose turning things around and making top 4 has been highly unlikely for months already. The time to act was back then when it was still salvageable. Hope the savings on that top 4 sack clause is worth it
I hate calling for a manager to get the sack, but I've lost all hope of him turning it around.
My take is this: yes the board and structure do not allow him to compete with europes elite and domestically with city, but they have backed him enough to comfortably beat teams like Brighton and palace week in week out. There is no excuse for Spurs and Liverpool being so far ahead of us, and that's all on him.
We need a change of management, to someone who's mentality fits with our clubs mantra, and I see no reason is postponing this change anymore. Our season is finished and it's not even December.
My take is this: yes the board and structure do not allow him to compete with europes elite and domestically with city, but they have backed him enough to comfortably beat teams like Brighton and palace week in week out. There is no excuse for Spurs and Liverpool being so far ahead of us, and that's all on him.
We need a change of management, to someone who's mentality fits with our clubs mantra, and I see no reason is postponing this change anymore. Our season is finished and it's not even December.
up yours
I think if we were to get turned over by Young Boys on Tuesday all hell would break loose.
In what way are we unable to compete with City?
No. Ive NEVER been a Mourinho supporter. People constantly conflate me being objective about his reign with being one. I told people from day one he was absolutely wrong as a replacement for LVG, for the rebuilding job at United and Ive been proved 1000% correct.
My beef is with Woodward. This mess is his fault. If he didn't trust this guy he should have sacked him in may.
I’m done watching United until there’s a change, I’d rather spend my time doing something else.
What 'light'? Ive NEVER wanted him here. And now its clear we are wasting his time and ours. Thanks to our idiot chairman
Will never understand why Lukaku started. Is play when you perform valid only for Martial and Pereira?
It’s not hard for me to accept. It’s the reverse. It’s hard for others to accept you can spend £400m and still be crap. So let’s blame the lads that were not brought. It makes no sense if you access what you’re saying. Pep is not going out and buying players that can only play Pep ball. He just makes them play Pep ball, there not the only players capable of doing so. We have a bunch of ball players in the squad, you just don’t see it because our tactics are compress the opposition and hoof it to Fellaini when it doesn’t work.
I disagree with all the people saying there is no quick fix! A new, attacking manager, with great skills in motivation would lift us instantly!
At the moment, there is a massive cloud over the club, players seemingly not wanting to renew contracts or simply want out; this needs to be lifted. We have several exceptional players who are playing many levels below their full capabilities (De Gea, Bailly, Pogba, Sanchez, Martial) that under a inspirational coach would lift us immediately! I don't buy the narrative that we need a massive clear-out, we need Mourinho gone!
At the moment, there is a massive cloud over the club, players seemingly not wanting to renew contracts or simply want out; this needs to be lifted. We have several exceptional players who are playing many levels below their full capabilities (De Gea, Bailly, Pogba, Sanchez, Martial) that under a inspirational coach would lift us immediately! I don't buy the narrative that we need a massive clear-out, we need Mourinho gone!
Funny thing is there is so much talk but always a shitshow on the pitch. Zero progress.
And when there's a semblance of rhythm building with Sanchez upfront, he gets dropped for Lukaku. I think performances in interviews also count for Jose.
What’s more on unfair is Gary Neville feeding the fans political crap. He gained us 3 points at Newcastle but he also conceded us from remove the cancers. Cheers Gary.
I don’t think our inability to get motivated for these home games is really a long term squad building issue personally. But even if you’re right, that rebuilding process won’t even start until Mourinho leaves.
and there were people on this very forum claims JM is better than the greatest manager on earth Sir Alex .
.Some people don't understand how Woodward has failed. They think that he shares blame for the short term on the pitch performances and thus any manager under him is doomed to not get the best out of the players.
Woodward is to blame for this mess, but not the performances. Here are his failings that led to this mess.
1. He's very slow to cut off a manager that clearly isn't working.
2. He has given the manager too much power
3. He has no consistent vision for what he wants United to be except successful.
4. Because a combination of #2 and #3, his managerial appointments have all been stark contrasts from one another apart from the fact that they're conservative. This has led to players the next manager has no use for.
If he doesn't come up with a direction the entire club can rally around (this includes supporters), then he will repeat these failures again. This extends to managerial appointments, inconsistent player turnover, etc... Because of this, it is more likely the next manager does fail.
But there a difference between what I just said and what those people who say there is no quick fix. The manager is directly responsible for the on pitch performance because he's the one who gets to invest in certain players, he's the one who is responsible for motivating players, he is the one for how the team sets up, and he's the one who is responsible for how the team reacts to what's going on the pitch. The manager is directly responsible for the performances unless Woodward doesn't back the manager from the get go or he creates so much drama that he's simply a distraction for everyone at the club and the club becomes an unprofessional work environment. In conclusion, Woodward being a failure means it's more likely that the next manager isn't the right hire, not that the next manager is automatically doomed to fail.
For all we know, Woodward learns from his mistake or he just flukes the correct managerial appointment and this next manager is what everyone wants out of a manager. Next 2 managerial appointments will be very telling whether or not he has learned from the last several years.
Poll still languishing on only 70%. That is the most surprising thing for me. Guys we have a goal difference of -1. We are as close to the bottom as we are the top. I would be interested to hear off the 30% who are still backing him and why. If this happened to any of the other supposed big clubs eg Bayern, Real, Barca, Juve the manager would have already been fired.
I think city have shown much more ambition, and more importantly they have directed their spending properly through a director of football for years now. The squad pep inherits was miles ahead of ours, let alone it's development since then.
We bought in Fred and Dalot this summer. That doesn't strike me as the owners telling Jose to close a 20 point gap.
12 points behind Liverpool by November - crazy
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