Jardim, easily.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Jardim, easily.
He looked way too comfortable in the post presser. His relationship with the club has reached a closed alley. He has given up on us and any good victory from now on like the Juve will be for his own ego but won't care much about losses. That was probably his attitude entering the season after the summer anyway.
He should've been fired when we got knocked out from the UCL by Sevilla last season.
We can get a good tactician tonight/tomorrow if the Glazers had the cojones to do the right thing from a footballing perspective. There's up and coming managers who play progressive attack minded football that given a chance would have us going in the right direction.
But we seem like we'll stick with our proven manager who has taken us to a new low and a negative goal difference.
I remember before SAF retired a veteran UTD fan saying when he leaves it will take a decade to lift ourselves up from the collapse of a mountain. From the way things are going it could take longer as we are just unsettled in every fecking department. I voted yes like I did with Moyesy but we don't have any settled players at all, we could easily replace all our outfield players. The clubs in shambles from the top to the bottom.
Nice set of words. But I don’t remember Klopp or Sarri or Poch having amazing structure within the club to enable them to get 14 players to play like they have a clue. We always like the blame the tools. At the end of the day just get a manager who gets our identity. Not Moyes thinking he’s still at Everton. Not LVG thinking he’s gods gift to English football and not the outdated narcissist who we have now. Just get a decent attacking manager. It’s that simple.
It's that simple? For arguments sake say we got Guardiola tomorrow, how well do you think he'd get this set of players playing? Because I don't think they'd suit him at all. The city squad he inherited was a better fit, but look how they performed under him prior to him making a list of singings to re shape the team.
Our squad is a patchwork quilt of players that, collectively, aren't suited to any single style of play.
I know this is hard for you and many to accept, but this doesn't get solved by replacing the manager alone. We're looking down the barrel at years of rebuilding.
Largely agree(except for the Valverde part who is not too dissimilar from our very own Mourinho).
We need to establish our identity and attacking ethos back.
I believe Top 3 aka Champions League qualification is everything!
If Jose or any Manchester United manager fails to deliver that* then pack your bags, the money is far to important to the business.
*first season could be excused
If Jose or any Manchester United manager fails to deliver that* then pack your bags, the money is far to important to the business.
*first season could be excused
"My girlfriend and I have been together for 3 years. After 2 failed relationship in 3 years I found her. She was at her lowest point then as well. We aren't alike at all but I'm a rich guy and she's an eye-candy. We have a lot of disagreements and back-biting among friends. At the beginning we made it work but recently the home life is a mess. She has a lot of baggage but I'm desperate for this to work cause I fear I can't do better than her."
Jose, eye-candy? I feel sick.
How can any sane (rich) man think like this regarding a relationship, never mind a business.
Jose, eye-candy? I feel sick.
How can any sane (rich) man think like this regarding a relationship, never mind a business.
We are not in a better position than we were six years ago. We had enough money to build a team that can compete but we failed because of the poor managerial appointments.
The board got it wrong when they thought that Moyes was the right man for the job after Fergie and that the squad he inherited was good enough to compete or to finish in top 4. It didn't end here as the idea of "let's get the next available manager" didn't do us any favor, we ended up with LVG and Mourinho where we could have had the likes of Klopp and Pochettino.
If we don't get the next appointment right we will end up wasting more money whether we appoint director of football or not.
The board got it wrong when they thought that Moyes was the right man for the job after Fergie and that the squad he inherited was good enough to compete or to finish in top 4. It didn't end here as the idea of "let's get the next available manager" didn't do us any favor, we ended up with LVG and Mourinho where we could have had the likes of Klopp and Pochettino.
If we don't get the next appointment right we will end up wasting more money whether we appoint director of football or not.
If Guardiola was managing us, i'd imagine we'd see a midfield of Pogba, Fred and Pereira and a front three of Martial, Sanchez and Rashford/Mata. Dalot would've been given his debut at RB and he wouldn't have resorted to hoof ball by putting Fellaini on like Mourinho did against the mighty Crystal Palace.
I don't want to berate Jose too much as you can get into trouble for that on here. But I feel the moment we lost a chance for top 4 this season was when Jose labelled his squad not good enough before a ball was even kicked at the start of the season. This is a squad that finished 2nd last season and who made what everyone believed to be the missing link midfield signing in Fred.
If your half a million a week salary star signing can't perform then stop asking him to track the opposition full backs all game and let him have some freedom. It's about getting best out of what you got. Bailly was a monster until Jose shattered his confidence somehow. The best managers know how to get a player like that back on track. But Jose demands another 100 million to replace you if you don't bow to his every command.
If we can get Pochettino in the summer then he's as close to the utd way your gonna find out there. If not him then Blanc or Jardim or Alegri.
If your half a million a week salary star signing can't perform then stop asking him to track the opposition full backs all game and let him have some freedom. It's about getting best out of what you got. Bailly was a monster until Jose shattered his confidence somehow. The best managers know how to get a player like that back on track. But Jose demands another 100 million to replace you if you don't bow to his every command.
If we can get Pochettino in the summer then he's as close to the utd way your gonna find out there. If not him then Blanc or Jardim or Alegri.
The point I was making is that Barca recruit managers who fit their ethos hence Valverde ended up there and that policy has seen them become hugely successful.
Can you imagine if we had hired the managers they have in the last 15 - 20 yrs and the reaction of our fans?
None of whom are ball winners, Pep always has someone who specialises with holding in midfield. We do not have such a player in the squad, Matic is a shell of a player and he's pretty much it... They'd leave our defenders extremely exposed
Maybe Lindelof could have played at DM. Doesnt look like a CB at all even to this day.
Alegri is someone who would be a bad choice as far as attacking football goes. Jardim or Poch along with Eddie Howe would be good though.
Surely Mourinho has to go, it just feels like the entire club knows we are just delaying the inevitable. The match today felt like watching an end of season game with United just going through the motions on the back of a disappointing season. We were 12 points off the top and 7 points off top 4 today before kick off, every single game is a must win.
Forget the results, we lack identity on and off the pitch. The entire mood around the club just feels toxic. Obviously we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I genuienly feel that the players have lost faith in Mourinho. I wouldn't say they have downed tools, or that they're not playing for the club, but it feels like they have just lost faith in Mourinho's vision, or don't believe in what he's trying to accomplish, and its seeping into performances. Mourinho comes out after the match and points the finger at the players and says they lacked heart, but at what stage do we stop and think why?
Why do we look like a disjointed team who don't train together during the week? Why is there no cohesive play? No combinations in attack, no structure in defence. Every pass seems like we are just winging it, playing the next available pass instead of putting together any thoughtful sequences of passes or movement. It's so slow, laboured.
It's not even December and it looks like top 4 has gone. Given the players at our disposal and the money we have spent, it's absolutely inexcsuable, both from a management point of the team, and the club as a whole. There's a complete lack of leadership right from the top down, and I think we underestimate how that affects the players. It's easy for us to sit here and say "well they should still be playing better." But look at Guardiola's first season at City. They finished 3rd, but you could see there was a vision, and end goal that he was working towards, that even though they underperfomed, it would eventually click. They would get to where they wanted to be doing what they were doing, with the vision for the team that he had in place.
It's so much easier to play with intensity, passion, conviction and confidence when that's the case. I'm not trying to excuse lack of effort here, or trying to make excuses for some pathetic and lacklustre performances from both and individual and a collective perspective, but we can't ignore that it's a genuine factor. I know that if I go into work week in, week out, and there is no vision, no sense of purpose or direction, or just a simple "why" about what i'm doing, am I going to bring my 100% A game every day, day in and day out? Absolutely not.
There's a lot that needs changing at this club right now, but an entire top level restucture could take years, and we don't have that right now. And at the end of the day, results on the pitch are all that matter, and the bottom line is that Mourinho should be doing better with the resources he has at his disposal. That's a managers job, regardless of industry. If he's not doing that, and underperfoming and showing a lack of leadership consistently, then he should be fired, because he's not fulfilling what he is being paid to do. Not because he's negative, not because he's grumpy or any other attacks on his personality that I have seen. The only question we should be asking is is he doing his job to the best of his abilities, and also to the level that another manager of similar experience and pedigree could do. If the answer is no, then the decision should be a simple one. The board and Ed Woodward have made a lot of mistakes since 2013, but this decision is as clear as it gets. It's not as if it can get much worse. We are 8th in the league and showing no signs of improving. In reality, given our wins against Bournemouth and Newcastle we are lucky to be 8th
Things need to change on the pitch before they change off of the pitch. We're going backwards right now, a change needs to be made before things get any worse. Players alienated, players speaking out, Mourinho blatantly throwing players under the bus, it's a calamity and we're a circus right now. I'm not expecting miracles, but we really need someone who can bring everyone together on the same page and have all our players pulling towards a common goal, playing football the right way. I don't think that's beyond realistic expextations. What do you guys reckon?
Forget the results, we lack identity on and off the pitch. The entire mood around the club just feels toxic. Obviously we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I genuienly feel that the players have lost faith in Mourinho. I wouldn't say they have downed tools, or that they're not playing for the club, but it feels like they have just lost faith in Mourinho's vision, or don't believe in what he's trying to accomplish, and its seeping into performances. Mourinho comes out after the match and points the finger at the players and says they lacked heart, but at what stage do we stop and think why?
Why do we look like a disjointed team who don't train together during the week? Why is there no cohesive play? No combinations in attack, no structure in defence. Every pass seems like we are just winging it, playing the next available pass instead of putting together any thoughtful sequences of passes or movement. It's so slow, laboured.
It's not even December and it looks like top 4 has gone. Given the players at our disposal and the money we have spent, it's absolutely inexcsuable, both from a management point of the team, and the club as a whole. There's a complete lack of leadership right from the top down, and I think we underestimate how that affects the players. It's easy for us to sit here and say "well they should still be playing better." But look at Guardiola's first season at City. They finished 3rd, but you could see there was a vision, and end goal that he was working towards, that even though they underperfomed, it would eventually click. They would get to where they wanted to be doing what they were doing, with the vision for the team that he had in place.
It's so much easier to play with intensity, passion, conviction and confidence when that's the case. I'm not trying to excuse lack of effort here, or trying to make excuses for some pathetic and lacklustre performances from both and individual and a collective perspective, but we can't ignore that it's a genuine factor. I know that if I go into work week in, week out, and there is no vision, no sense of purpose or direction, or just a simple "why" about what i'm doing, am I going to bring my 100% A game every day, day in and day out? Absolutely not.
There's a lot that needs changing at this club right now, but an entire top level restucture could take years, and we don't have that right now. And at the end of the day, results on the pitch are all that matter, and the bottom line is that Mourinho should be doing better with the resources he has at his disposal. That's a managers job, regardless of industry. If he's not doing that, and underperfoming and showing a lack of leadership consistently, then he should be fired, because he's not fulfilling what he is being paid to do. Not because he's negative, not because he's grumpy or any other attacks on his personality that I have seen. The only question we should be asking is is he doing his job to the best of his abilities, and also to the level that another manager of similar experience and pedigree could do. If the answer is no, then the decision should be a simple one. The board and Ed Woodward have made a lot of mistakes since 2013, but this decision is as clear as it gets. It's not as if it can get much worse. We are 8th in the league and showing no signs of improving. In reality, given our wins against Bournemouth and Newcastle we are lucky to be 8th
Things need to change on the pitch before they change off of the pitch. We're going backwards right now, a change needs to be made before things get any worse. Players alienated, players speaking out, Mourinho blatantly throwing players under the bus, it's a calamity and we're a circus right now. I'm not expecting miracles, but we really need someone who can bring everyone together on the same page and have all our players pulling towards a common goal, playing football the right way. I don't think that's beyond realistic expextations. What do you guys reckon?
There were loads of empty seats. Everyone around me laughed when the attendance was announced as 74,000 odd, it was nowhere near that in reality. Loads of people leaving at half time as well (which has been happening all season, very very rarely before that). Saw a load of lads leave at half time and say they were going to the pub instead. Wish I'd joined them. It's an absolute joke what we are being served up with at the moment.
You could send out our popularly agreed upon best XI managerless and do no worse. It's a management model whose time is overdue. Anyway one third of the season through and 14 points behind City. Will be at least 35 by the end of the season without a change at the top. THANK YOU GARY NEVILLE!!
Guardiola would prioritise dominating possession and Pereira could play as the 6 better than what we've seen from Matic of late.
I’m just as culpable as any for thinking Jose was the closest thing to Fergie back in the day, and he definitely was as one point... but having lived through his management for 2.5 years now, I’m happy to fall on my sword and admit how wrong I was.
That conviction was based on his peak years, when he was undoubtedly brilliant and completely in-tune with the football of the time... but as he’s aged, his similarities with Fergie have withered with every season...
SAF was never a great tactician, but he was a brilliant and adaptive man manager. Who knew when to pull the hairdryer out for a Beckham or Keane, but also when to put his arm around a Cantona or Cole...and when the game changed (as it did at least thrice in his tenure) he knew how to roll with it, and if he didn’t know how, he knew to at least hire more modern thinking coaches and assistants to felicitate him. He may have seemed like a stubborn old git.. but his greatest strength was his ability to manage the hard drinking boot boys like Robson, the newly famous spice boys like Beckham and the modern day millionaire narcissists like Ronaldo, and get the best out of all of them.
Jose has no idea how to do even half of that. He claims to be a student of Fergie, but he can’t adapt his style of play or his treatment of players beyond his regimented idea of his late 00s peak ... He’s almost the 180 opposite of the great man when it comes to the one thing that actually made that man great!
Ferguson famously sold three of his most famous and reliable players after finishing 2nd, and entrusted the following season to a bunch of untested academy sprogs... Even during some of our lacklustre, defensive Euro always, it was his faith in the likes of OShea and Fletcher that drew him the most slack.
The very notion that Jose - I’ll admonish my young players in public and play Fellaini, Lukaku & Matic in every big game - Mourinho, is in any way following his ethos, because “something something old-school grrrr” is an abhorrent disgrace on his name. It’s a fecking travesty of a comparison. It’s tantamount to spitting on his statue! He would never have surrendered to Juve (or anybody) without making a single sub because he couldn’t rely on our bench...he would’ve thrown on a 14 year old full back before giving in. His entire career was based on the principle of calculated risk. Even discounting the fledglings, we won yet another title in his latter years because he would rather sling on an unknown Italian nobody - into a team with Ronaldo & Rooney, that’d only just won the CL! - than accept drawing at home with Aston fecking Villa!
Whatever traits Jose Mourinho may have once shared - or even still may do in some small, ingnominous way - with Sir Alex... he’s betrayed the one that really matters. And then some.
I’m so sorry that I ever thought this would work. I prostrate myself on the alter of the anti-Jose’s. I’m sooo fecking done.
That conviction was based on his peak years, when he was undoubtedly brilliant and completely in-tune with the football of the time... but as he’s aged, his similarities with Fergie have withered with every season...
SAF was never a great tactician, but he was a brilliant and adaptive man manager. Who knew when to pull the hairdryer out for a Beckham or Keane, but also when to put his arm around a Cantona or Cole...and when the game changed (as it did at least thrice in his tenure) he knew how to roll with it, and if he didn’t know how, he knew to at least hire more modern thinking coaches and assistants to felicitate him. He may have seemed like a stubborn old git.. but his greatest strength was his ability to manage the hard drinking boot boys like Robson, the newly famous spice boys like Beckham and the modern day millionaire narcissists like Ronaldo, and get the best out of all of them.
Jose has no idea how to do even half of that. He claims to be a student of Fergie, but he can’t adapt his style of play or his treatment of players beyond his regimented idea of his late 00s peak ... He’s almost the 180 opposite of the great man when it comes to the one thing that actually made that man great!
Ferguson famously sold three of his most famous and reliable players after finishing 2nd, and entrusted the following season to a bunch of untested academy sprogs... Even during some of our lacklustre, defensive Euro always, it was his faith in the likes of OShea and Fletcher that drew him the most slack.
The very notion that Jose - I’ll admonish my young players in public and play Fellaini, Lukaku & Matic in every big game - Mourinho, is in any way following his ethos, because “something something old-school grrrr” is an abhorrent disgrace on his name. It’s a fecking travesty of a comparison. It’s tantamount to spitting on his statue! He would never have surrendered to Juve (or anybody) without making a single sub because he couldn’t rely on our bench...he would’ve thrown on a 14 year old full back before giving in. His entire career was based on the principle of calculated risk. Even discounting the fledglings, we won yet another title in his latter years because he would rather sling on an unknown Italian nobody - into a team with Ronaldo & Rooney, that’d only just won the CL! - than accept drawing at home with Aston fecking Villa!
Whatever traits Jose Mourinho may have once shared - or even still may do in some small, ingnominous way - with Sir Alex... he’s betrayed the one that really matters. And then some.
I’m so sorry that I ever thought this would work. I prostrate myself on the alter of the anti-Jose’s. I’m sooo fecking done.
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Probably still not as good as what he inherited at City. It's quickly forgotten about but he was getting slated at times during his first season there. He's not a magician that just plays great football with any players, the guy spends serious money on big talents that can keep the ball for fun and has enough genius in his attacks to see things for themselves. It's so far ahead of what we have. We celebrate Martial as our best attacker, in reality he's still a hugely inconsistent player learning his trade.
No rollin eyes, account must be hacked.
I agree with what your saying but feel Guardiola would've been better for us in comparison to Mourinho.
You're forgiven..
It is crazy that he cannot see what Matic and Lukaku were doing. He must be blind. Even Jones would have played better in midfield than Matic. Day in and day out he plays Matic who has been terrible for a long time.
Bless you. I meant well... I really did!
The Palace game was basically the "Norwich" tipping point of his reign for me. That was the moment I knew LVG had no chance with our club and I was completely done with him. It was only going down hill. I was up to 1am watching that dross last night, Jose has finally tipped i think even the biggest supporters of him with that game last night. He's done.
There are still many who will back him to the end. I admire them for it in some respect even if it is the wrong thing to do in terms of caring about how the club moves forward. It’s like going to North Korea at Old Trafford right now. Everyone is scared to speak out against the dear leader.
The writing is on the wall for Mourinho and has been for quite some time. I've said it for a while now but the worst thing we could do is let him see out the season. Even if it means an interim coach between now and the end of the season, do it.
This approach of giving our managers enough rope to hang themselves with doesn't work at all.
This approach of giving our managers enough rope to hang themselves with doesn't work at all.
Beautiful that so many are coming to the realisation that José isn't suited to us. He never was, imo. I'm surprised so many initially thought he was, but better late than never.
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning, but, alas, he couldn't change. It was obvious early on in his 2nd season that he was going to fail to me.
I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning, but, alas, he couldn't change. It was obvious early on in his 2nd season that he was going to fail to me.
I love you.
I know its not my place to say but someone has to ask. Why don't you and the others at the matches boo the pretentious cnut? Why not use your right to be at the stadium and voice your discontent, instead of leaving and drowning in booze? When is enough enough?
Jardim, but have a proper assessment of the direction he's taking United. Is United under him going to be attacking or defensive? If he fails to prove he's not going to play a style the United fans want to see after 6 seasons of boring football, he should be gone too. I will lower the bar actually just like I did Mourinho. If I can see players like Gomes, Pereira, Greenwood, etc... get some playing time I'll be happy.
But I just really want to enjoy watching United again. I believe that style is most suited for players like Pogba, Martial, and others.
Yes he was getting criticized in his first season, but it largely was about whether his style of football could succeed in England. You could see what he wanted out of his players. The only thing we do with Mourinho is point out how a player is crap and we need to buy a new one simply because that player is better. It's hard to identify our problems in comparison to Pep because we simply do nothing well. It's totally reliant on the overall quality of the player as they are individually the system in attack.
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Mourinho is unable to think outside the box just keeps trying the same failed tactics again and again - he's yesterday's man. Mata, Lingard, Matic all not good enough yet get match after match. Lukaku straight back in despite his crap performances of late. Fellaini Plan B in operation again. It's not working yet no attempt to change things up. Fred, Bailly, Dalot his own signings not getting a look in. Herrera ignored, Pereira discarded. Then dissing young players to the press again midweek just to upset the applecart a bit more. The whole thing is a mess, he needs to go now top four has gone now anyway let's face it.
xXx
When you really think about it, Sir Alex was unique in the history of the game. I have never known a manager to have a peak as long as fergie did. What are we talking 20+ years of winning titles. It’s just unheard of.
Jose WAS a fine manager and his peak was one of the best I have seen for a manager especially between first Chelsea and inter stints. However football has evolved and he has not been able to evolve with it. I would put money on the same thing happening to the best managers of today in 5-10 years time, guardiola, klopp, sarri etc. It’s just a cycle, same way as players have peaks.
Don't know the answer but Jose ain't it, sadly...
Still though, what a great plan put in place post Fergie, hey?
Or, that's what he, Gill and The Glazers said....
Still though, what a great plan put in place post Fergie, hey?
Or, that's what he, Gill and The Glazers said....
Damn son, feeling your pain with each passing line
Hang in there, the end is near now or so I hope I think most of us could be excused for thinking that Jose was the man to get after the Van Gaal debacle. We were desperate and he seemed like the winner we needed to get in to counter Pep at City and Klopp at Liverpool. Unfortunately, it didn't turn out the way we expected. Which is alright. The frustrating part is continuing with this nonsense when it's clear as a day that this past it buffoon isn't going to get us anywhere. Him being still in the job is a total fecking sham.
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