I don't care whose idea it was to get Lukaku. In that summer I don't think better targets were available anyway. I still have faith for Lukaku to be a great player for us.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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The players need to be taught a lesson at United, you can't down tools and keep changing manager the moment you sense weakness or feel like change. We're not Chelsea.Source?
Either way, he's gone end of the season. It will take a minor miracle for him to get Top 4 as Martial and Pogba won't keep bailing him out.
Only way he stays is if we win the CL. Considering we won LC and EL right after Liverpool crashed out of the finals in both comps the previous year, I'd say there's a chance.
I actually feel some of our fans need to learn this aswell, particularly on here.
Mourinho should and the word is, will see his contract out until 2020 and then we can go from there in re: to a change of manager.
Both Woodward and Mourinho should feck off alright. Unfortunately Woodward won't be going anywhere but that doesn't negate from the fact that Mourinho absolutely has to go.
SSN saying that a deal is very close but neither club confirming that it's finalised as there are still some details to be agreed.
Also saying this is not an 'impulsive or reactionary signing' and that Lukaku was Mourinho's no1 target since the end of the season; the club is using its strategic partnership with Raiola to its advantage.
Suggesting that Moratta was always a fallback option and used as a smokescreen, whilst they negotiated with Lukaku in the background.
They expect Lukaku to join the club on the flight to USA tour.
This was Sky update pprior to Lukaku signing. Clearly he was Mourinho 1st choice and Morata was the smokescreen whilst the club negotiated with Lukaku in the background.
Also saying this is not an 'impulsive or reactionary signing' and that Lukaku was Mourinho's no1 target since the end of the season; the club is using its strategic partnership with Raiola to its advantage.
Suggesting that Moratta was always a fallback option and used as a smokescreen, whilst they negotiated with Lukaku in the background.
They expect Lukaku to join the club on the flight to USA tour.
This was Sky update pprior to Lukaku signing. Clearly he was Mourinho 1st choice and Morata was the smokescreen whilst the club negotiated with Lukaku in the background.
Would you expect him to stay if he doesnt make top 4?
Seriously, like a bunch of kids.Come on Ban you should know this by now. If you don't blame Mourinho for every single thing wrong with Man Utd you're a cultist. You silly fanboy
Edit - just saw a post above mine calling someone a fanboy as I posted
I am in the 'Jose In' camp and I accept what you are saying here.
I do agree that at some stage he must be replaced, but I don't feel that time is now, simply because there are no suitable candidate available.
I think that after we have completed the last game of the season, the board need to make a decision. If that decision is to sack, then, do it and chase a suitable replacement aggressively. If however, the decision is to keep Jose then they need to back him and not give him any excuse to moan/complain. Manage him correctly and if Woodward only wants to buy Galacticos, then tell Jose to only give him a list of Galactico class players. Communication, throughout the Summer months is imperative, as lack of communication is what caused a lot of moaning to take place last Summer.
I know that the Jose Out brigade want him out now, but taking him out of the team today, won't be good for our season. Best to let him go after the season is complete.
Jose can definitely get us top 4 and he should be allowed to do this, this season.
A great Manchester United player? Really? I mean, I commend your optimism, however misguided.
I want him gone, sooner rather than later, but I do agree with most of what you’re saying. I’ve come to terms with the fact he’ll finish the season as our manager most likely. If the right option becomes available I’d sooner see him get half a season or so to get the lay of land, though. Won’t happen I think, Mourinho is our manager for this season.
You know in what kind of state this place is when @el3mel, one of the best posters around, and someone who, as far as I know, thinks Jose should go, gets called a cultist, just cause he's sensible and doesn't go mental over everything Jose related.
Yes he needs to go but I know that he is here till the end of the season. He was brought to bring instant success as he has done in the past but for the reason that City has raised the bar we failed to win last year.
Now is the time to start rebuilding the side then looking for instant success. So we need to find a young manager who plays good football and who is tactically sound too. I am not convinced Poch is the man to do it.
Now is the time to start rebuilding the side then looking for instant success. So we need to find a young manager who plays good football and who is tactically sound too. I am not convinced Poch is the man to do it.
Why not? It clearly worked for Chelsea, more than once I might add, same can be said of Real and various other clubs.
If the current manager of your club has failed (and continues to fail) to correctly motivate his squad of players to perform at the levels expected of them, spends £400 million in the transfer market on a group of players who have, as of yet, proven to be United material and then has the gall to complain that he hasn't been sufficiently backed, initiates internal conflict with both his players and fellow staff members, continually runs the clubs history into the ground with spiteful and immature comments in the press and, for lack of a better phrase, is an unadulterated cnut of gargantuan proportions, why wouldn't you sack him?
The internal conflict he creates within the fanbase when things inevitably go south for him is half the problem with Mourinho. We were warned this would happen by both Chelsea and Real fans.
Do you think he deserves to stay?
I don't think he deserves or doesn't deserve it. I think he should go but he's not the only one to blame for the situation club is in and probably not completely for the same reasons as the people who hate his guts think he should go.
It will be interesting when he goes and all the other stuff stay the same in and around the club, who will people aim their hate and anger at. He's an easy target for lots of people to heal their frustrations.
The only thing "great" about Lukaku is the extra bulk he's added on this season.
Agreed.
Yeah, I don’t know about all of that, but since I started watching all our games from the 97/98 season I’ve seen some genuinely great players in the red shirt. Lukaku is somewhere between Chicharito and Karel Poborsky in my book. I can only assume he started watching United in Moyes’ first season, or football in general.
@Siorac I think @el3mel made my point for me, but let me elaborate.
The reference was to this summer - Jose wasn't backed this summer and that left an impact on him and in turn his behaviour affected the squad.
Maybe Jose should be sacked in the summer (I voted for him to leave since the beginning of this thread and haven't changed my vote since). Maybe he isn't tactically equipped to solve a problem like guardiola's city or klopp's Liverpool in a positive , front-footed way.
But that being said, he has improved us and whether people like it or not, we did finish 2nd last season, the highest position since Fergies retirement. I do believe that as long as he was here, he should have been backed in the transfer market to the fullest. There is enough precedence that barring maybe Inter, the players he buys are usually good enough to win and remain competitive even after he leaves.
If Woodward was convinced that Jose wasn't the right man to guide us in the transfer market then why didnt he employ a DOF in the summer? Or why didn't we have an alternative list of targets of great quality players to puruse, whether Jose liked it or not. It just seemed that Jose's plans were vetoed but there wasn't an alternative plan for brining in top level players for filling our problem positions (CB, RW, RB). Neither could we move out the deadwood like Rojo and Jones.
Yes Jose can be blamed for not bringing out the best out of his players. But we also have accumulated a lot of avergae players and have sold some very decent ones too early and for cheap prices. Woodward is as much to blame for this seasons debacle and has a huge influence on our downward trend as a team for the last 6 yrs.
Jose needs to go but so does Woodward in his current capacity. He is equally to blame for where we are and I'm sure that things wouldnt be this bad if Jose was given everything he needed in the summer. Would that have been good enough to keep Jose as a manager past this season? Probably not.
But we wouldn't be in this mess and we wouldn't be 8th.
We need to be as ruthless as the Real Madrid's of this world. If the manager doesn't produce the results and the quality of football that the club expects then he should be sacked. But that's true for a CEO as well. If Woodward and his team of scouts can't deliver the right quality of players a coach needs, then that setup needs to be overhauled or at the very least tweaked.
The reference was to this summer - Jose wasn't backed this summer and that left an impact on him and in turn his behaviour affected the squad.
Maybe Jose should be sacked in the summer (I voted for him to leave since the beginning of this thread and haven't changed my vote since). Maybe he isn't tactically equipped to solve a problem like guardiola's city or klopp's Liverpool in a positive , front-footed way.
But that being said, he has improved us and whether people like it or not, we did finish 2nd last season, the highest position since Fergies retirement. I do believe that as long as he was here, he should have been backed in the transfer market to the fullest. There is enough precedence that barring maybe Inter, the players he buys are usually good enough to win and remain competitive even after he leaves.
If Woodward was convinced that Jose wasn't the right man to guide us in the transfer market then why didnt he employ a DOF in the summer? Or why didn't we have an alternative list of targets of great quality players to puruse, whether Jose liked it or not. It just seemed that Jose's plans were vetoed but there wasn't an alternative plan for brining in top level players for filling our problem positions (CB, RW, RB). Neither could we move out the deadwood like Rojo and Jones.
Yes Jose can be blamed for not bringing out the best out of his players. But we also have accumulated a lot of avergae players and have sold some very decent ones too early and for cheap prices. Woodward is as much to blame for this seasons debacle and has a huge influence on our downward trend as a team for the last 6 yrs.
Jose needs to go but so does Woodward in his current capacity. He is equally to blame for where we are and I'm sure that things wouldnt be this bad if Jose was given everything he needed in the summer. Would that have been good enough to keep Jose as a manager past this season? Probably not.
But we wouldn't be in this mess and we wouldn't be 8th.
We need to be as ruthless as the Real Madrid's of this world. If the manager doesn't produce the results and the quality of football that the club expects then he should be sacked. But that's true for a CEO as well. If Woodward and his team of scouts can't deliver the right quality of players a coach needs, then that setup needs to be overhauled or at the very least tweaked.
Come of it please. You don't agree with him ok. But posts like - he probably started to follow United that and that year - are seriously embarrassing.
What gave you the impression that hate and anger have any part to play in this situation? Can you point to a post/poster that/who has claimed as such?
I don't hate the Jose nor do I feel any anger for him (sincerely doubt anyone does truth be told) I simply think, like you, that he should go.
I won't be a wanker and name names nor will I dig up posts from July or August to prove some point.
I didn't mean you, I meant in general. I'm avoiding most of the threads cause you can't have a proper conversation anymore.
Percentage wise. How much of it is his fault?
Funny, I don’t feel embarrassed at all. It’s not so much that I didn’t agree, more that his opinion was laughable. A great player for us is Rooney, Ronaldo, Rio, Vidic, Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Solskjær, Cantona etc. This is a forum, we use written language, so it’s important to think about what we’re actually saying. Thanks for the instruction though, you sure told me!
The guy that’s actually good at his actual job should go? This is the state of our fans. So who does the commercial deal when Ed is gone? There’s a reason why we generate so much money.
Now you're just throwing random theories. Here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...-plan-use-wayne-rooney-makeweight-bid-hijack/
Moratta was second choice. It was widely reportedly in the media. That's the time continuum I'm living in.
Let's not argue semantics. You know what I mean. By reading reports, accessing opinions of United fans, etc (ie. critical thinking) it's clear that most pundits and fans didn't view this as a bad deal. Even though you keep running around this, it doesn't make it any less true.
1) I brought them not b/c they cost less, I brought them up b/c their market values were reasonable considering their ages, positions, and how desperately they wanted to leave.
2) Straw man was in response to you saying I thought valuation should be limited to only exactly similar players (which I never said)
You told me to show you the posts lol. This was the exchange:
MackRobinson said:
I don't understand why you are so confused with replies to posts you made. Skim through that thread. Most fans were pleased with the signing.cheeky_backheel said:
Then why did you ask why how is he a Mourinho signing? Again, this was the flow of conversation:
cheeky_backheel said:
MackRobinson said:
cheeky_backheel said:
What's so hard about that to follow?
This part is an assumption that you've stated as fact. There's no guarantee that he can get us top 4, nor have our performances to this point under him this season demonstrated that.
I think he has to go now for several reasons.
- There's no real evidence that he can get top 4. He didn't do it the first year here. He got 2nd last year but that was on the back of god-tier performances from De Gea. If you look at the stats we were arguably the 5th or 6th best team last year in the league. We're 8th now arguably should be lower considering how we've played. I don't see how he gets top 4.
- He's unsettling a lot of players. Many of these guys need to be renewed and I fear we're going to lose a lot of top talent if he stays on.
Ed is an investment banker and shouldnt be handling footballing affairs.
He can stay on the business side and keep making money and he is excellent at that, but he is a terrible DOF which is apparently one of his job functions.
Sure, mate, just go on with childish stuff, don't let anyone stop you.
You weren’t even close to stopping me, mate. Jog on now.
It wasn't a smoke screen at all, Jose chased Morata for weeks on end and we simply couldn't come to an agreement with Real because they weren't willing to sell to us... something to do with a faulty fax machine previously
The Lukaku deal was tied up in days once Chelsea got Morata for a cut price deal.
I said this on the previous page, remember Lukaku telling Pogba in LA that they were now team mates and them having the LAPD call to the house due to complaints cause of their party?
No manager gets all their transfer targets, again I pointed this out on the previous page. Fergie often missed out on targets and made do the best he could with what he had. Wanted Shearer, Didn't get him. Wanted Batistuta, didn't get him but Yorke instead. There are countless examples through out his career.
What you basically summarised what Jose decided that because he didn't get what he wanted, he threw a hissy fit and decided in all his infinite wisdom and maturity that upsetting the squad was fair game then, have I read that right?
As for the improvement, 2nd place and 19pts from Champions. LVG was closer in 5th with 15pts gap! We've been awful since Jan 2018, our performances and results have been awful.
Well the rumour goes that Woodward wants a DoF, But Jose being whom he is and not playing well with others they can't put one in. Wouldn't that be Woodward over ruling Jose again if he went ahead and put in a DoF? You know the foundation of the Jose supporters argument? That Woodward is interfering / over ruling Jose when he shouldn't be?
If you doubt this theory feel free to go back and look at his fall out with the Chelsea board over transfers in the summer leading up to his and the teams implosion. Also you've just proven the point, that Jose essentially had a tantrum cause he was over ruled by Woodward. Now tell me how it'd go if a DoF was to over rule Jose? Would the out come be any different? He's still being told no and he sums that up as being told he isn't good enough and probably even sticks his 3 fingers up at them at the board table like a child.
As for the deadwood still being here, again that is on Jose. Why are you ignoring the fact that he demanded Fellaini get a new deal in the summer and Woodward had to bend to that demand? Jose is handing out contract renewals to dead wood players for fun. Herrera, Rojo, Jones, Young, Valencia ETC... Perfect example again is Darmian, he stated Jose wouldn't release him cause he hadn't enough defensive cover, what kind of moron lets 3 defenders go (Blind, Tuanzebe & Fosu Mensah) and then moans about lack of defensive cover?
Your whole post reads like one big contradiction really. Basically the same as any supporter still backing Jose at this point.
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He signs off the cheques. DOF’s don’t do that. David Gill use to work for Frist Choice. Hardly a football man was he. We just need a bridging gap that’s all. Someone who Ed can trust and someone who believes in the managers vision with respective to Uniteds.
If mourinho does not go in this coming summer .I'm certain our best players including de gea, pogba and martial will leave and that's clear as day. These are talented guys and they won't want to play drab football for more long .
Post their departure we'll finally see the arrival of experienced veterans such as Alderwield, witsel and perisic for bloated money, enabling us to play the way we were always meant to under him.
Come to think of it, if you're a talented guy with a mundane job in a increasingly mediocre firm where people with lesser talent than you are being rewarded what would you do
Post their departure we'll finally see the arrival of experienced veterans such as Alderwield, witsel and perisic for bloated money, enabling us to play the way we were always meant to under him.
Come to think of it, if you're a talented guy with a mundane job in a increasingly mediocre firm where people with lesser talent than you are being rewarded what would you do
Mourinho should go, Ed should go - or at least moved the feck away from making football decisions & a few other big changes.
Notice how no one ever mentions if Dalot is a Jose signing or not? They need to watch him play more first before deciding
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