The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[GlastonSpur]

… Toby can be very good be best buy for the value in the summer or even in January, assuming Levy can be reasoned with to at least make some money on Toby, but Toby last summer was anything but good value buy. He would have cost us in the range of 70 million that's ridiculous for a player hitting 30 with 1 year left on the contract.

This is a misrepresentation. The deal didn't happen because United wouldn't sell us Martial in return. If United had been willing to sell us Martial, then a price for Martial would have been negotiated for him and a much lower price than £70m for Toby would have been offered in return.

In other words, the £70m price was simply a reflection that Spurs didn't want to sell him without getting Martial.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Mourinho said he wanted 4 players and said he had given the club the list of 4 players and expressed satisfaction about getting the 4 players, FOUR!. He said it himself! It's on fecking video! Stop making bullshit up about a list of possible candidate 1-4 and it's not safe to assume bollocks you made up because the man is on record contradicting all the shit you're spewing. Bloody hell mate

and Mourinho was talking out filling positions and not if those were his preferred targets. Do you expect him to say he didnt want those players cos they weren't his preferred targets? For example, he wanted Varane ahead of bailly but varane declined
Speaking to Canal+, Varane said: "Of course it's flattering. Manchester United are a very big club. But from the moment when Madrid and I are in sync on my project, there's no questions to ask yourself.

"I have always said I feel good in Madrid. It's not easy to say 'No' to Jose Mourinho, but you have to weigh up the pros and the cons. We're men, we have decisions to make and that's how it is."

https://www.skysports.com/football/...urinho-wants-four-signings-in-transfer-window

So yes there was a list of preferred targets.

 

[roonster09]

It does when they inquire about a price and believe he was too expensive. That's a financial decision like Sanchez and like Jorginho. We aren't going to say they deemed them not good enough now are we. Things make a lot more sense if we add 'real' context.

City actually made bid and it was rejected. Think they made more than 40 million bid and they rejected as Shakhtar were in round of 16, their owner confirmed the bid last summer.

 

[el3mel]

The same place that told you Jorginho changed his mind.

That's no place. Pep literally said that in a presser in preseason.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ght-jorginho-deal-was-done-says-pep-guardiola

That crap scouting system you talk of seleted Phil Jones and Rafael Varane as CB for Manchester United only for Zidane to get the other deal over the line. Varane was pretty much a United player otherwise. What top defender did Mardid sign by the way after getting Varane? Out of curiosity? Which defender did they make their manager spend Ramos money on as Varane wasn't quite their yet. There was a manager who did want a CB with those players there though and was refused. Guess who that was? lol

Why should they get another defender than Varane when at this time they had Ramos and Pepe starting for them and doing pretty well and Ramos was still 25 at this time ? They bought him to prepare for him to take over Pepe once he starts decline, and even though he was kept on the bench for years while not playing much, they refused any offer for him to leave and the player never asked for transfer either. Everything was well planned and agreed between player and club, same with Asensio and Isco too. We don't see this level of planning here, far from it actually. Everything here look randomized and works by luck as I said.

The same place that told you Jorginho changed his mind.

You can't see it because your not looking for it but why should you. If things are ran properly these things are secondary.. all we need to be looking at is the first team being run properly. Manchester United, Glazers or not have a philosophy where youth will also be given a chance, we should only judge it on the quality that gets promoted. Marcus Rashford shows its working. Scott McTomminay even though not the best in quality shows the policy is being adhered to.

Umm what ?

These issues aren't secondary. They are the prime reason of why things aren't going properly in the club. The first team won't run properly if you don't have a strategy in the market covering both present and future, signing good players for now in positions you lack in while having good amount of future prospects learning from the already present top players while waiting to take over. We can't depend on our academy alone, ignore the fact that since class of 92 our academy have been mostly poor, apart from 2-3 players at best, and SAF himself stopped depending much on it in his later years, but no club depends on his academy alone in developing youth. You need to buy them abroad, as simple as that.

These are literally the first steps we need to take if we want to have a proper first team for now and later. Otherwise, we'll keep waiting for a good lucky hit to occur as we have been for years now, and the moment we solve certain issues in certain positions, others arise and so on.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Ffs.

If we say the terrible football is his fault, you lot say it's the players, they are not good enough.

If we say his signings are not good enough, you say that's on the scouts and Woodward.

What IS his responsibility? Because frankly, you make it sound like he literally cannot be blamed for anything.

If his job is to coach the team, then he is doing an absolutely terrible job and should be fired immediately.

Who is “you lot”?

Signings are the responsibility of the scouts to bring him options. He picks from that. True or false?

We are three managers deep with largely the same group of players for at least two of them. When do we start to look at the players since getting rid of two managers hasn’t changed anything, and it seems weird to me that getting rid of the third is kinda silly when we haven’t had the massive clear out we’ve been in dire need of for a long time. Is Jose the right man for job? I don’t know, but I can’t tell anything with this group of players. If they can play better, at least two managers haven’t been able to get it out of them. Is there any reason to believe someone else would?

What about the rest of the staff? Jose said his assistant told him the players were ready and raring to go before a game, yet once again they were slow to start. So what going on? Is it the coaching? Is it the players? Is it the upper management? I think it’s a little bit of all of them, and not a single person has made any argument that’s convincing enough to show that Jose being sacked with make us better. Moyes being sacked was supposed to make us better, it didnt. Lvg being sacked was supposed to make us better, it didn’t. Why will sacking Jose be any different? Convince me.

 

[Mainoldo]

That's no place. Pep literally said that in a presser in preseason.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ght-jorginho-deal-was-done-says-pep-Guardiola

Also says it was quite similar to Alexis Sanchez. Therefore I rest my case. You can read between the lines.

Why should they get another defender than Varane when at this time they had Ramos and Pepe starting for them and doing pretty well and Ramos was still 25 at this time ? They bought him to prepare for him to take over Pepe once he starts decline, and even though he was kept on the bench for years while not playing much, they refused any offer for him to leave and the player never asked for transfer either. Everything was well planned and agreed between player and club, same with Asensio and Isco too. We don't see this level of planning here, far from it actually. Everything here look randomized and works by luck as I said.

It’s like you don’t listen. Mourinho wanted a new defender. He fell out with Pepe and Ramos and didn’t believe Varane alone would be enough. Why are you then telling me why should they? They should because the gaffer wanted one. Ain’t that what this current Mourinho arguement is about? What planning to keep Martial on the bench until he is ready to take over Lukaku? We tried that with Zlatan but Mourinho decided to burn Zlatan out so Rashford and Marital lost a years worth of development upfront. It’s not randomised LVG told us what Martial was here for. We are just not going to repeat that pattern for 11 positions. Football doesn’t work like that otherwise we should be applauding Mardid right now for Asensio being Ronaldo’s replacement. But we aren’t.

Umm what ?

These issues aren't secondary. They are the prime reason of why things aren't going properly in the club. The first team won't run properly if you don't have a strategy in the market covering both present and future, signing good players for now in positions you lack in while having good amount of future prospects learning from the already present top players while waiting to take over. We can't depend on our academy alone, ignore the fact that since class of 92 our academy have been mostly poor, apart from 2-3 players at best, and SAF himself stopped depending much on it in his later years, but no club depends on his academy alone in developing youth. You need to buy them abroad, as simple as that.

These are literally the first steps we need to take if we want to have a proper first team for now and later. Otherwise, we'll keep waiting for a good lucky hit to occur as we have been for years now, and the moment we solve certain issues in certain positions, others arise and so on.

So what was Dalot? What was Lindelof? What was Perieria spending two seasons on loan? TFM another one? What are your suggestions? Do we sign someone for Lukaku too? I’ve answered your points above. It’s clearly in place and had been before Mourinho got here. It requires what we call player development.

 

[ToToMarshall]

I’d just like to say, his style of play isn’t a primary criticism of mine. It was always going to happen when we got in to bed with Mourinho, but we did so believing it would guarantee success, but we haven’t really given him what he needs to do it.

The past 5 years have been so crap, I’d have taken winning something serious by any means necessary, just to get us back on track. The ‘United Way’ can wait as far as I’m concerned (or could wait as far as I was concerned m, at least).

My issue is, I do have a certain degree of sympathy for Mourinho regarding the relative lack of backing he got this summer just gone. What can’t be excused is his attitude, and the fact that whilst he wasn’t given a squad to compete with City, he still has a squad that should not be 8th with a negative goal-difference after 12 games in mid-November.

I’ve no idea why the board didn’t back him this summer. Actually that’s a lie, I have a suspicion it’s because they didn’t trust his judgement. However, surely those those feelings of mistrust must have been there before that contract extension was signed. My biggest gripe is why on earth would you tie Mourinho to the club (and the club to Mourinho) for that amount of time and not back him? What’s the point? The kind of season we’re looking at now was such a predictable outcome.

I’m glad we didn’t let him flog Martial for the sake of signing Willian, but we still should have got him a central-defender and better fullbacks. His attitude after not getting what he wanted, they way he spoke about the youth players on the tour, the damning way he spoke about our squad when the window closed, and the bizarre teams he picked vs Spurs and West Ham (that I’m certain he did to prove a petty point), pushed me over the edge to be honest. I just can’t be bothered with his crap.

 

[Mainoldo]

Who is “you lot”?

Signings are the responsibility of the scouts to bring him options. He picks from that. True or false?

We are three managers deep with largely the same group of players for at least two of them. When do we start to look at the players since getting rid of two managers hasn’t changed anything, and it seems weird to me that getting rid of the third is kinda silly when we haven’t had the massive clear out we’ve been in dire need of for a long time. Is Jose the right man for job? I don’t know, but I can’t tell anything with this group of players. If they can play better, at least two managers haven’t been able to get it out of them. Is there any reason to believe someone else would?

What about the rest of the staff? Jose said his assistant told him the players were ready and raring to go before a game, yet once again they were slow to start. So what going on? Is it the coaching? Is it the players? Is it the upper management? I think it’s a little bit of all of them, and not a single person has made any argument that’s convincing enough to show that Jose being sacked with make us better. Moyes being sacked was supposed to make us better, it didnt. Lvg being sacked was supposed to make us better, it didn’t. Why will sacking Jose be any different? Convince me.

Largely the same players? From the first team name them. I can name Valencia, De Gea and.... let say Smalling and Lingard. So who are the same players? You’ve said two managers but we’ve managed to churn out a new set of players. So maybe we should blame the manager again.

These group of players plan fine away from the manager. I’ve seen Lingard with my own eyes again today and i continue to see it every international break.

 

[redshaw]

I’ve no idea why the board didn’t back him this summer. Actually that’s a lie, I have a suspicion it’s because they didn’t trust his judgement. However, surely those those feelings of mistrust must have been there before that contract extension was signed. My biggest gripe is why on earth would you tie Mourinho to the club (and the club to Mourinho) for that amount of time and not back him? What’s the point? The kind of season we’re looking at now was such a predictable outcome.

We were flying high while the contract was being drawn up. We'd gone from sixth the year before to signing Pogba and Lukaku and were top or a close second scoring lots of goals around the time and also managed to get Sanchez. I'm sure Jose looked the ticket and a good reason why a top player can come, everything looked good but what a difference 6 months makes.

 

[el3mel]

Also says it was quite similar to Alexis Sanchez. Therefore I rest my case. You can read between the lines.

Not gonna be the first time I bring a quote here and someone refuse to believe it. Some are so entilted to their opinion that even if the player himself came and told them the truth, they will say he was lying. I'm gonna pass this point then.

It’s like you don’t listen. Mourinho wanted a new defender. He fell out with Pepe and Ramos and didn’t believe Varane alone would be enough. Why are you then telling me why should they? They should because the gaffer wanted one. Ain’t that what this current Mourinho arguement is about? What planning to keep Martial on the bench until he is ready to take over Lukaku? We tried that with Zlatan but Mourinho decided to burn Zlatan out so Rashford and Marital lost a years worth of development upfront. It’s not randomised LVG told us what Martial was here for. We are just not going to repeat that pattern for 11 positions. Football doesn’t work like that otherwise we should be applauding Mardid right now for Asensio being Ronaldo’s replacement. But we aren’t.

Madrid have never given full control to a manager and work under certain strategy that the manager has to follow. I have never said we should give full control to Mourinho either. No manager should have full control but it becomes a problem when you don't have any proper structure in the club and it ends in the mess we have been in ever since SAF, who was controlling and managing everything in the club, left.

Simply put, we need to have a proper working strategy that we hire manager to follow, and all his players he wants for current term should be following this strategy while we are having scouting network working on the future of the club. At the moment we don't look like to have any strategy for the team in general nor do we're following managers opinions 100%. We look like we're waiting to get someone will be like SAF and be absolutely spot on in every decision he takes regarding the team, something that will be pretty hard to happen.

So what was Dalot? What was Lindelof? What was Perieria spending two seasons on loan? TFM another one? What are your suggestions? Do we sign someone for Lukaku too? I’ve answered your points above. It’s clearly in place and had been before Mourinho got here. It requires what we call player development.

From the very first post when I was talking to another poster about the likes of Bailly, Fred..etc, I was questioning the quality of the young prospects we have signed and mentioned several times in this discussion that in the last 9 years the only 2 who were success were Dave and Martial, while the rest ended up flopping, so I'm not sure what is the point of this part. I'm not sure the young targets we have been scouting and signing for some good years have that any feeling or potential they will become world class at any time.

If you believe that everything in our transfer policy and network is totally fine and what we need is only, only time and a manager that will make all this click, well, I hope I have 1/4 of that great and unrealistic optimsim.

 

[rpg]

At this time i would Giggs as manager. Surely we wouldn't finish below 7th place whoever we choose to have as manager.

 

[fellaini's barber]

and Mourinho was talking out filling positions and not if those were his preferred targets. Do you expect him to say he didnt want those players cos they weren't his preferred targets? For example, he wanted Varane ahead of Bailly but varane declined
Speaking to Canal+, Varane said: "Of course it's flattering. Manchester United are a very big club. But from the moment when Madrid and I are in sync on my project, there's no questions to ask yourself.

"I have always said I feel good in Madrid. It's not easy to say 'No' to Jose Mourinho, but you have to weigh up the pros and the cons. We're men, we have decisions to make and that's how it is."

https://www.skysports.com/football/...urinho-wants-four-signings-in-transfer-window

So yes there was a list of preferred targets.

You are talking rubbish. Jose said the club had given him the four players he had on his list and you sit here to continue spinning all sorts of unfounded tripe. Jose himself insists he wanted 4 players, you on redcafe keep insisting relentlessly those were not his ,why? a Sky interview from Varane where he said something about United's interest,same kind of routine reply every player we've ever been linked to ever says every summer from Bale to Ronaldo to Ramos. You've have now spun that to 'Bailly wasn't first choice, he wanted Varane'. No shit I want Messi too. Why stop there? Tell us who where the 'prefered targets' ahead of Pogba and Ibra...I'll wait. You are becoming worse than CA1 in this thread, I knew you were a trolling when you started this bullshit on Tuesday about bloody Matic not being Jose's first choice now you're perfecting the theory to cover every shit signing he's done, as no one believes the Woodward signing trash anymore. Now it's our scouts all getting his 4th choice of 'prefered targets',you'll even contradict everything the man says to defend him I don't get it honestly. And you type out all this crap with so much detail based on absolutely nothing. Answer me this did this whole multiple list thing start under José?

 

[cheeky_backheel]

The same place that told you Jorginho changed his mind.



That crap scouting system you talk of seleted Phil Jones and Rafael Varane as CB for Manchester United only for Zidane to get the other deal over the line. Varane was pretty much a United player otherwise. What top defender did Mardid sign by the way after getting Varane? Out of curiosity? Which defender did they make their manager spend Ramos money on as Varane wasn't quite their yet. There was a manager who did want a CB with those players there though and was refused. Guess who that was? lol

You can't see it because your not looking for it but why should you. If things are ran properly these things are secondary.. all we need to be looking at is the first team being run properly. Manchester United, Glazers or not have a philosophy where youth will also be given a chance, we should only judge it on the quality that gets promoted. Marcus Rashford shows its working. Scott McTomminay even though not the best in quality shows the policy is being adhered to.

You do know it was Mourinho that made Varane a starter for madrid ahead of Pepe? Mou

Perez is well known for being a penny pincher when it comes to defenders. His only record defensi signing has been

You are talking rubbish. Jose said the club had given him the four players he had on his list and you sit here to continue spinning all sorts of unfounded tripe. Jose himself insists he wanted 4 players, you on redcafe keep insisting relentlessly those were not his ,why? a Sky interview from Varane where he said something about United's interest,same kind stuff every player we've ever been linked to ever says every summer. You've have now spun that to 'Bailly wasn't first choice'. Why stop there? Tell us who where the 'prefered targets' ahead of Pogba and Ibra...I'll wait. You are becoming worse than CA1 in this thread, I knew you were a trolling when you started this bullshit on Tuesday about bloody Matic not being Jose's first choice now you're perfecting the theory to cover every shit signing he's done, as no one believes the Woodward signing trash anymore. Now it's our scouts all getting his 4th choice of 'prefered targets',you'll even contradict everything the man says to defend him I don't get it honestly. And you type out all this crap with so much detail based on absolutely nothing.

You were expecting him to say "oh we signed these players even though they were not my first choice"?

Buzz when you are awake

 

[fellaini's barber]

@cheeky_backheel So who were ahead of Pogba and Ibra on this list since they're all now 4th choices I'm still waiting. And why did you post a link confirming everything I've said and destroying your own argument?
''Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho says he wants to make four signings this summer, with two already confirmed and another arriving "soon".

In his first official news conference since succeeding Louis van Gaal, the former Chelsea boss was clear on his summer transfer plans.

With ex-Villarreal defender Eric Baillyand former PSG striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic already signed and a third - Borussia Dortmund midfielder Henrikh Mkhitaryan - on his way, Mourinho is now closing in on a fourth target.'' How did you get 'list of prefered targets' from this??

 

[roonster09]

@cheeky_backheel So who were ahead of Pogba and Ibra on this list since they're all now 4th choices I'm still waiting. And why did you post a link confirming everything I've said and destroying your own argument?
''Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho says he wants to make four signings this summer, with two already confirmed and another arriving "soon".

In his first official news conference since succeeding Louis Van Gaal, the former Chelsea boss was clear on his summer transfer plans.

With ex-Villarreal defender Eric Baillyand former PSG striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic already signed and a third - Borussia Dortmund midfielder Henrikh Mkhitaryan - on his way, Mourinho is now closing in on a fourth target.'' How did you get 'list of prefered targets' from this??

fecking hell, now Pogba and Ibra became fourth choice in the list?

 

[roonster09]

I'm not sure why this keep getting mentioned, while ignoring the point that City backed out from this transfer way long time before we made our official move to him. Just one of hundreds of players they scout per year, like any other club really, doesn't mean they're going to sign him. I'm not saying he'll end up being poor or good, but there's nothing to look at here.

Yeah, City just made 50 million Euros bid for just lols and banter.

“You know that we had negotiations with Manchester City this winter, and there was an official offer - a very big figure,” he said. “They offered us around 50 million euros for Fred.
"And we had enough strength to reject it, because we were playing in the Champions League, we were finishing the Ukrainian League campaign.
“I am convinced that we will receive and are receiving no less interesting proposals than that from Manchester City.”

 

[fellaini's barber]

fecking hell, now Pogba and Ibra became fourth choice in the list?

I'm guessing our world record signing was behind Modric,Busquets,Fernandino and 2005 Zidane

 

[roonster09]

I'm guessing our world record signing was behind Modric,Busquets,Fernandino and 2005 Zidane

Exclusively reported by Sportskeeda

Jose fans will stop at nothing. They will blame Woodward, players, scouting, recruitment team if we have one, opposition managers and their spending but will not say a word about why can't we string couple of passes together and they even after 2.5 years our team don't play as a team and look so poor.

 

[Rito]

Exclusively reported by Sportskeeda

Jose fans will stop at nothing. They will blame Woodward, players, scouting, recruitment team if we have one, opposition managers and their spending but will not say a word about why can't we string couple of passes together and they even after 2.5 years our team don't play as a team and look so poor.

forgive me for barging in, but some of the Jose fans from United are absolutely hilarious.

Me being a chelsea supporter, obviously loved him to bits during his stint at Stamford bridge. But even the most ardent Chelsea fans (hopefully) will not spin excuses for that man the way some supposed united members in here are doing , day-in, day-out. United owe him absolutely nothing, then why is this mentality of blindly supporting him? I am positively curious.

 

[Siorac]

Who is “you lot”?

Signings are the responsibility of the scouts to bring him options. He picks from that. True or false?

We are three managers deep with largely the same group of players for at least two of them. When do we start to look at the players since getting rid of two managers hasn’t changed anything, and it seems weird to me that getting rid of the third is kinda silly when we haven’t had the massive clear out we’ve been in dire need of for a long time. Is Jose the right man for job? I don’t know, but I can’t tell anything with this group of players. If they can play better, at least two managers haven’t been able to get it out of them. Is there any reason to believe someone else would?

What about the rest of the staff? Jose said his assistant told him the players were ready and raring to go before a game, yet once again they were slow to start. So what going on? Is it the coaching? Is it the players? Is it the upper management? I think it’s a little bit of all of them, and not a single person has made any argument that’s convincing enough to show that Jose being sacked with make us better. Moyes being sacked was supposed to make us better, it didnt. Lvg being sacked was supposed to make us better, it didn’t. Why will sacking Jose be any different? Convince me.

So nothing is his fault, okay, I get ya.

'You lot' are the Mourinho cultists who blame everyone andd everything before admitting their idol may be at fault.

 

[roonster09]

So nothing is his fault, okay, I get ya.

'You lot' are the Mourinho cultists who blame everyone andd everything before admitting their idol may be at fault.

Yeah you can dream on, that's not going to happen.

Also it's not even same team under 3 managers. Apart from 2-3 players, the core team always was different for 3 managers.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

So nothing is his fault, okay, I get ya.

'You lot' are the Mourinho cultists who blame everyone andd everything before admitting their idol may be at fault.

Thats not at all what I said. If you cant be bothered to make your argument, why bother replying at all? I asked you to convince me that getting rid of him would be different to the last two sackings. Why does that appear to be so difficult for "you lot"?

 

[roonster09]

Thats not at all what I said. If you cant be bothered to make your argument, why bother replying at all? I asked you to convince me that getting rid of him would be different to the last two sackings. Why does that appear to be so difficult for "you lot"?

How can anyone do that? Do you think anyone have crystal ball to show you how things are going to be next year?

Can we say after getting rid of Atkinson we signed SAF, after getting rid of Rijkaard - Barca signed Pep. Or after getting rid of Jose, Madrid won 4 CL titles and Chelsea won league title following season.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Yeah you can dream on, that's not going to happen.

Also it's not even same team under 3 managers. Apart from 2-3 players, the core team always was different for 3 managers.

Moyes: Smalling, young, Jones, Valencia, Felliani, Mata, de gea.

LVG: Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, Shaw, martial, rashford, mata, de gea, felliani, lingard.

Jose: Smalling, Jones, valencia, young, shaw, martial, rashford, mata, de gea, felliani, lingard

 

[Reddy Rederson]

How can anyone do that? Do you think anyone have crystal ball to show you how things are going to be next year?

Can we say after getting rid of Atkinson we signed SAF, after getting rid of Rijkaard - Barca signed Pep. Or after getting rid of Jose, Madrid won 4 CL titles and Chelsea won league title following season.

Once again context is thrown out the window for the sake of "winning" an argument. Make sure you dont read anything else that Ive said, Id hate for you to get a full picture of my point. We sacked 2 managers, we are still shit. Why? Go on, say its because we got three shit managers. I dare you to be that short sighted.

 

[Siorac]

Thats not at all what I said. If you cant be bothered to make your argument, why bother replying at all? I asked you to convince me that getting rid of him would be different to the last two sackings. Why does that appear to be so difficult for "you lot"?

Because this is a nonsensical argument.

The team is going nowhere, we are 8th, with a negative goal difference, playing dreadful football. The idea that we should keep the manager who is doing terribly just because the new one might not be able to do better is ridiculous to me. It's the equivalent of giving up.

Also, this scout nonsense is wearing thin now. Do managers never watch games? They do not have targets of their own? Are you trying to convince me that the scouts came up with the likes of Matic, Perisic, Willian, Lukaku? Can imagine the scene where the scouts present Mourinho with Matic and he says 'yeah, never heard of him but go for it!'

No one blamed the fecking scouts when Van Gaal got Schweinsteiger and he turned out to be terrible. No one blamed the scouts for Depay or Schneiderlin. No one tried to argue that Blind was foisted on Van Gaal.

'When do we start looking at the players?' - but we had a huge turnover of players. We spent 400m on players in the Mourinho era. Of the Van Gaal signings, we have only Shaw and Herrera who ever play games (Rojo and Darmian are barely even fringe players, Blind, Schneiderlin, Depay, Falcao, Di Maria are all gone). Of the Moyes signings, Fellaini is a huge favourite of Mourinho.

We spend a lot on transfers, a lot on wages, at some point the manager has to be held accountable for not getting anything out of it. Do you suggest we replace the entire squad before judging Mourinho? Because that is not how football works - not to mention you would probably still blame the fecking scouts afterwards!

 

[Beagle]

He shouldn't go of his own volition and miss out on a payout.

And sacking him in November makes less sense than it would've done in October or September. The general trend over the past month has been upwards. A loss to City doesn't change anything seeing that he survived the losses to Brighton and West Ham.

But this much is clear that he will not be turning this around dramatically. As a United manager over the last couple of years he has been mostly useless. Too many wrong decisions, too much whining and complaining, a brand of football that won't be drawing in supporters and all the time losing ground on rivals.

I can't think of any reason to keep seeing him as a long term solution to any problem. The club should have realised by now that Jose has been another failed apppappoint. The only decision left to make is how best to get rid of him. In terms of his severance payment and who is available to replace him.

 

[roonster09]

Moyes: Smalling, young, Jones, Valencia, Felliani, Mata, De Gea.

LVG: Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, Shaw, Martial, Rashford, Mata, De Gea, felliani, Lingard.

Jose: Smalling, Jones, Valencia, young, Shaw, Martial, Rashford, Mata, De Gea, felliani, Lingard

That's squad you have mentioned. Van Gaal played
Smalling and Blind as CBs.
Darmian as RB
Schneiderlin and Carrick as his midfield.
Mata, Lingard, Martial, Rooney as attackers.

You have just mentioned players in squad. Yeah we all know we didn't sign 20 players since Jose signed.

 

[Siorac]

Moyes: Smalling, young, Jones, Valencia, Felliani, Mata, De Gea.

LVG: Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, Shaw, Martial, Rashford, Mata, De Gea, felliani, Lingard.

Jose: Smalling, Jones, Valencia, young, Shaw, Martial, Rashford, Mata, De Gea, felliani, Lingard

Our 'core team' under Mourinho includes Phil Jones? He appeared in a total of 53 games over three seasons. Shaw played even less before this season.

Where is Pogba, Matic, Lukaku? Sanchez? You know, the actual key players under Mourinho?

 

[roonster09]

Once again context is thrown out the window for the sake of "winning" an argument. Make sure you dont read anything else that Ive said, Id hate for you to get a full picture of my point. We sacked 2 managers, we are still shit. Why? Go on, say its because we got three shit managers. I dare you to be that short sighted.

Oh no, please go ahead and enlighten us with your broken logic, about how we have same players when players like Matic, Pogba, Bailly, Lindelof, Lukaku, Sanchez never played under Van Gaal. Or even Rashford just played some 7-12 games and Martial played his first season in PL. We have changed whole team but yeah it's the players.

 

[Siorac]

That's squad you have mentioned. Van Gaal played
Smalling and Blind as CBs.
Darmian as RB
Schneiderlin and Carrick as his midfield.
Mata, Lingard, Martial, Rooney as attackers.

You have just mentioned players in squad. Yeah we all know we didn't sign 20 players since Jose signed.

And this is partly why the Mourinho cult is hard to take seriously. The constant moving of the goalposts, the ridiculous demand that we replace the entire squad before expecting results, listing Phil fecking Jones as a 'core player'...

 

[cheeky_backheel]

@cheeky_backheel So who were ahead of Pogba and Ibra on this list since they're all now 4th choices I'm still waiting. And why did you post a link confirming everything I've said and destroying your own argument?
''Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho says he wants to make four signings this summer, with two already confirmed and another arriving "soon".

In his first official news conference since succeeding Louis Van Gaal, the former Chelsea boss was clear on his summer transfer plans.

With ex-Villarreal defender Eric Baillyand former PSG striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic already signed and a third - Borussia Dortmund midfielder Henrikh Mkhitaryan - on his way, Mourinho is now closing in on a fourth target.'' How did you get 'list of prefered targets' from this??

Do not make false claims cos I never said Ibra or Pogba were first choices.

What i have said is that there is always a list of candidates for each position and that which of those candidates we sign does not depend on Mourinho but on Ed as he is the one that has to secure one of the targets or none.

As evidence, we tried to sign Varane but failed and ended up with Bailly. But to you cos Mourinho didnt say that Bailly was not his preferred choice after signing him then he must have been the only one mourinho wanted all along. That is a very flawed logic.

FYI, that same summer, Kante confirmed that Mourinho contacted him about joining us but he declined cos he was already in advance talks with Chelsea. But for you, Mourinho never wanted Kante cos he said the players signed were the ones he wanted - that is what managers typically say!!!

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Because this is a nonsensical argument.

The team is going nowhere, we are 8th, with a negative goal difference, playing dreadful football. The idea that we should keep the manager who is doing terribly just because the new one might not be able to do better is ridiculous to me. It's the equivalent of giving up.

Also, this scout nonsense is wearing thin now. Do managers never watch games? They do not have targets of their own? Are you trying to convince me that the scouts came up with the likes of Matic, Perisic, Willian, Lukaku? Can imagine the scene where the scouts present Mourinho with Matic and he says 'yeah, never heard of him but go for it!'

No one blamed the fecking scouts when Van Gaal got Schweinsteiger and he turned out to be terrible. No one blamed the scouts for Depay or Schneiderlin. No one tried to argue that Blind was foisted on Van Gaal.

'When do we start looking at the players?' - but we had a huge turnover of players. We spent 400m on players in the Mourinho era. Of the Van Gaal signings, we have only Shaw and Herrera who ever play games (Rojo and Darmian are barely even fringe players, Blind, Schneiderlin, Depay, Falcao, Di Maria are all gone). Of the Moyes signings, Fellaini is a huge favourite of Mourinho.

We spend a lot on transfers, a lot on wages, at some point the manager has to be held accountable for not getting anything out of it. Do you suggest we replace the entire squad before judging Mourinho? Because that is not how football works - not to mention you would probably still blame the fecking scouts afterwards!

So you ignored everything I said before then? Thanks for wasting my time. Just make sure that when woody picks shit manager number 4, you dont get to complain about it. You want him picking again.

 

[Siorac]

Do not make false claims cos I never said Ibra or Pogba were first choices.

What i have said is that there is always a list of candidates for each position and that which of those candidates we sign does not depend on Mourinho but on Ed as he is the one that has to secure one of the targets or none.

As evidence, we tried to sign Varane but failed and ended up with Bailly. But to you cos Mourinho didnt say that Bailly was not his preferred choice after signing him then he must have been the only one Mourinho wanted all along. That is a very flawed logic.

FYI, that same summer, Kante confirmed that Mourinho contacted him about joining us but he declined cos he was already in advance talks with Chelsea. But for you, Mourinho never wanted Kante cos he said the players signed were the ones he wanted - that is what managers typically say!!!

Mourinho contacted Kante? But I thought he had nothing to do with transfers: scouts just present some targets and then Woodward signs some of them.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Our 'core team' under Mourinho includes Phil Jones? He appeared in a total of 53 games over three seasons. Shaw played even less before this season.

Where is Pogba, Matic, Lukaku? Sanchez? You know, the actual key players under Mourinho?

Im sorry, I didnt realise it was get to cherry pick the squad to prove your point day. My bad.

 

[Mainoldo]

Not gonna be the first time I bring a quote here and someone refuse to believe it. Some are so entilted to their opinion that even if the player himself came and told them the truth, they will say he was lying. I'm gonna pass this point then.



Madrid have never given full control to a manager and work under certain strategy that the manager has to follow. I have never said we should give full control to Mourinho either. No manager should have full control but it becomes a problem when you don't have any proper structure in the club and it ends in the mess we have been in ever since SAF, who was controlling and managing everything in the club, left.

Simply put, we need to have a proper working strategy that we hire manager to follow, and all his players he wants for current term should be following this strategy while we are having scouting network working on the future of the club. At the moment we don't look like to have any strategy for the team in general nor do we're following managers opinions 100%. We look like we're waiting to get someone will be like SAF and be absolutely spot on in every decision he takes regarding the team, something that will be pretty hard to happen.



From the very first post when I was talking to another poster about the likes of Bailly, Fred..etc, I was questioning the quality of the young prospects we have signed and mentioned several times in this discussion that in the last 9 years the only 2 who were success were Dave and Martial, while the rest ended up flopping, so I'm not sure what is the point of this part. I'm not sure the young targets we have been scouting and signing for some good years have that any feeling or potential they will become world class at any time.

If you believe that everything in our transfer policy and network is totally fine and what we need is only, only time and a manager that will make all this click, well, I hope I have 1/4 of that great and unrealistic optimsim.

I gave you a quote from the same article but you ignored your own source. So why are you criticising me for doing the same thing? Lol

You gave Madrid as your ideal world example then criticised Madrid when I pointed out there not that ideal. Either their good at their Strategy or not. Which one is it?

You say we lack strategy I think a policity brief from Ed saying the calibure of players we would spend big money on as a CB highlights we have a strategy. Wouldn’t you?

I didn’t say I believe everything is fine but I’m not going to pretend it’s f’d up because the latest man in charge is failing. Good transfers can fail because of poor environments etc. Fernando Torres was a good transfer but unfortunately his ankle was never the same. Wilfred Zaha was a good transfer but unfortunately we lost SAF. Juan Mata was a good transfer but unfortunately we had no style identity on how to use him. I could go on and on. So pointing out that we have crap policy or scouting because the environment isn’t designed for a signing to work is abit harsh. Well infact just plain naive.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

That's squad you have mentioned. Van Gaal played
Smalling and Blind as CBs.
Darmian as RB
Schneiderlin and Carrick as his midfield.
Mata, Lingard, Martial, Rooney as attackers.

You have just mentioned players in squad. Yeah we all know we didn't sign 20 players since Jose signed.

They are all part of the squad, you dont get to forget about them because it doesnt fit your narrative. And one of joses faults is that he hadnt settled on a regular starting 11. Only recently has he started picking a regular team.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Mourinho contacted Kante? But I thought he had nothing to do with transfers: scouts just present some targets and then Woodward signs some of them.

Thanks for the failed sarcasm

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Mourinho contacted Kante? But I thought he had nothing to do with transfers: scouts just present some targets and then Woodward signs some of them.

Not a single person said that. Scouts present to jose, who then tells woody who he wants. Or are you under the impression that jose personally scouts hundreds of thousands of players every year as well as makes all the deals, as well as coaches the team?

 

[Siorac]

So you ignored everything I said before then? Thanks for wasting my time. Just make sure that when woody picks shit manager number 4, you dont get to complain about it. You want him picking again.

I did not ignore your ridiculous 'when do we look at the players' question.

I did not ignore your 'what if the next manager turns shit, too' argument either so I'm not sure what your problem is. I repeat: there is no reason to keep a manager who is performing terribly, out of fear that the next one might be no better. There is a chance, yeah, that we'll still be shit. There is also a chance we could be better.

(oh and Van Gaal was better than Moyes so hey, sacking a manager brought us some improvement at least) .