The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Siorac]

Im sorry, I didnt realise it was get to cherry pick the squad to prove your point day. My bad.

But that is EXACTLY what you did! Jesus Christ. You literally cherrypicked the players who support your point as opposed to the players who are actually, y'know, playing regularly and are core important players.

The fecking nerve of you people, seriously.

 

[roonster09]

And this is partly why the Mourinho cult is hard to take seriously. The constant moving of the goalposts, the ridiculous demand that we replace the entire squad before expecting results, listing Phil fecking Jones as a 'core player'...

Using squad players to make the point, new lows every day.

 

[Mainoldo]

You do know it was Mourinho that made Varane a starter for Madrid ahead of Pepe?

Yes because he fell out with Pepe. Abit like how we see Bailly not playing now. Like that.

He also fell out with Ramos when he criticised his tactics. He also got dropped, now we like to say Ramos is a top class defender. I’m sure if he was at Madrid for longer Ramos would have been exciled.

 

[roonster09]

They are all part of the squad, you dont get to forget about them because it doesnt fit your narrative. And one of joses faults is that he hadnt settled on a regular starting 11. Only recently has he started picking a regular team.

They all are part of the squad who don't play regularly. Why stop there, go on and name all the reserves and U18 players too.

Go and check the most used first 11, team under Van Gaal was different from Jose's team he has today. Players are not same. Van Gaal didn't have Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Fred, Bailly, Lindelof. Even Rashford was just a rookie who played dozen games. Shaw barley played under Van Gaal in second season because of broken leg.

 

[Siorac]

Not a single person said that. Scouts present to jose, who then tells woody who he wants. Or are you under the impression that jose personally scouts hundreds of thousands of players every year as well as makes all the deals, as well as coaches the team?

The point was that players like Matic, Willian or Kante are clearly not presented by the scouts. And that, contrary to what you and cheeky say, apparently the manager can actually play a part in trying to make deala happen, for example, by contacting a player he wants. So there has to be some blame on him for the failed signings, blame you desperately try to exonerate him from.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

They all are part of the squad who don't play regularly. Why stop there, go on and name all the reserves and U18 players too.

Go and check the most used first 11, team under Van Gaal was different from Jose's team he has today. Players are not same. Van Gaal didn't have Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Fred, Bailly, Lindelof. Even Rashford was just a rookie who played dozen games. Shaw barley played under Van Gaal in second season because of broken leg.

They play regularly enough to be considered part of the regular selection.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

The point was that players like Matic, Willian or Kante are clearly not presented by the scouts. And that, contrary to what you and cheeky say, apparently the manager can actually play a part in trying to make deala happen, for example, by contacting a player he wants. So there has to be some blame on him for the failed signings, blame you desperately try to exonerate him from.

Who the feck said he was blameless? No cnut. He’s just not the only problem. And “you lot” need to stop acting like getting rid of him will solve all our problems.

 

[roonster09]

They play regularly enough to be considered part of the regular selection.

And what's the reason for underperforming Jose signings?

 

[Class of 63]

He was at the Belgium vs Iceland game tonight, I wonder who he was scouting? I can't imagine it being a defender/Alderweireld otherwise he'd have chosen a more challenging game..

Jón Guðni Fjóluson apparently

 

[Reddy Rederson]

But that is EXACTLY what you did! Jesus Christ. You literally cherrypicked the players who support your point as opposed to the players who are actually, y'know, playing regularly and are core important players.

The fecking nerve of you people, seriously.

No I picked the players who were fecking there and used regularly. Ffs.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

And what's the reason for underperforming Jose signings?

fecking ask them.

 

[roonster09]

Who the feck said he was blameless? No cnut. He’s just not the only problem. And “you lot” need to stop acting like getting rid of him will solve all our problems.

And you lot should stop acting like the club will shut down if Jose is sacked. There are plenty of coaches who can do better job. FFS, you don't even have to check whole Europe, just check in league. How many coaches have already made their impact on the playing squad.

 

[roonster09]

fecking ask them.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

And you lot should stop acting like the club will shut down if Jose is sacked. There are plenty of coaches who can do better job. FFS, you don't even have to check whole Europe, just check in league. How many coaches have already made their impact on the playing squad.

I’m not, I’m acting very fecking clearly like Jose isn’t the only problem. But “you lot” keep moving goal posts, cherry picking facts and flat out putting shit in my posts I never said. Here’s the first thing you got wrong, I never said Jose shouldn’t be sacked. In fact I said I didn’t give a shit one way or the other.

The fecking state of this thread.

 

[Siorac]

No I picked the players who were fecking there and used regularly. Ffs.

What was the criteria then? Why wasn't Pogba included? Or Matic? Not regular enough? Sanchez? Lindelöf, Bailly? All of these players play vastly more than Phil Jones.

Were you trying to list players who were there for all three managers? Can't be because that is 1) cherrypicking to make a point 2) Rashford, Lingard and Shaw are all on the list, and Moyes didn't have them.

 

[roonster09]

I’m not, I’m acting very fecking clearly like Jose isn’t the only problem. But “you lot” keep moving goal posts, cherry picking facts and flat out putting shit in my posts I never said. Here’s the first thing you got wrong, I never said Jose shouldn’t be sacked. In fact I said I didn’t give a shit one way or the other.

The fecking state of this thread.

Yeah it's "Us" who are moving the goal posts, not someone who blamed woodward, players, scouting and many more.

 

[roonster09]

And this is partly why the Mourinho cult is hard to take seriously. The constant moving of the goalposts, the ridiculous demand that we replace the entire squad before expecting results, listing Phil fecking Jones as a 'core player'...

Shame we didn't sign 20 new outfield players and 2 new back up keepers. It's all players fault.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

What was the criteria then? Why wasn't Pogba included? Or Matic? Not regular enough? Sanchez? Lindelöf, Bailly? All of these players play vastly more than Phil Jones.

Were you trying to list players who were there for all three managers? Can't be because that is 1) cherrypicking to make a point 2) Rashford, Lingard and Shaw are all on the list, and Moyes didn't have them.

We’re you dropped as a kid? Seriously, you have to on the fecking wum. No one can be this thick. I don’t know, why didn’t I mention matic as someone who played for more than one manager here? Why didn’t I pick pogba for someone that played for more than one manger here(not including his first spell here of course)? You tell me, why would I not include players that didn’t play for lvg or moyes to discredit the argument that only 2 or 3 players have played under the 3 managers we have had since saf left?

 

[Siorac]

I’m not, I’m acting very fecking clearly like Jose isn’t the only problem. But “you lot” keep moving goal posts, cherry picking facts and flat out putting shit in my posts I never said. Here’s the first thing you got wrong, I never said Jose shouldn’t be sacked. In fact I said I didn’t give a shit one way or the other.

The fecking state of this thread.

No, you are acting like everything is someone else's fault and occasiomally you throw in a token 'Jose isn't blameless' to appear more reasonable. But when it comes to discussing actual things, you blame everyone but him.

 

[Siorac]

We’re you dropped as a kid? Seriously, you have to on the fecking wum. No one can be this thick. I don’t know, why didn’t I mention Matic as someone who played for more than one manager here? Why didn’t I pick Pogba for someone that played for more than one manger here(not including his first spell here of course)? You tell me, why would I not include players that didn’t play for lvg or Moyes to discredit the argument that only 2 or 3 players have played under the 3 managers we have had since saf left?

So then you were cherry picking players to make a point, thanks for admitting that.

That point appears to be completely stupid because as I said, no manager can expect the club to replace the entire squad so he doesn't have to work with any of the players of the previous eras. Now just admit that many of Mourinho's underperforming key players are actually his signings and we can be on our way without having to drag the ever-absent Phil Jones into this again.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Yeah it's "Us" who are moving the goal posts, not someone who blamed woodward, players, scouting and many more.

Yes it is you. Because according to “you lot” Jose is in charge of everything. He scouts hundreds of thousands of players every year. He approaches all the players, and the clubs, and the agents. And he makes all the deals. And he set all the wages. And he cuts the grass to short and he doesn’t say thank you to the tea lady.

So you’re argument is that moyes, then lvg, then Jose all had 100% control of all aspects of the running of the club. So no one else shares any of the blame for anything that has happened. Not least of all the man who said “I won’t invest 300 million to move up one place”. You’re right, that same man picked 3 duds in row, but I have a feeling it’s goimg to be 4th time lucky.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

So then you were cherry picking players to make a point, thanks for admitting that.

That point appears to be completely stupid because as I said, no manager can expect the club to replace the entire squad so he doesn't have to work with any of the players of the previous eras. Now just admit that many of Mourinho's underperforming key players are actually his signings and we can be on our way without having to drag the ever-absent Phil Jones into this again.

Or I’ll just put you on ignore because you’re clearly a fecking wum and wasting my time with a bullshit argument that you can’t even follow yourself. You take care, princess.

 

[roonster09]

Yes it is you. Because according to “you lot” Jose is in charge of everything. He scouts hundreds of thousands of players every year. He approaches all the players, and the clubs, and the agents. And he makes all the deals. And he set all the wages. And he cuts the grass to short and he doesn’t say thank you to the tea lady.

So you’re argument is that Moyes, then lvg, then Jose all had 100% control of all aspects of the running of the club. So no one else shares any of the blame for anything that has happened. Not least of all the man who said “I won’t invest 300 million to move up one place”. You’re right, that same man picked 3 duds in row, but I have a feeling it’s goimg to be 4th time lucky.

Who is responsible for coaching the team into "Team"? Is Woodward running the training too? Why is that we can't string couple of passes together and plays like cowards? Why is that we drop so deep and our team have such a shit workrate? Is that because of Woodward or how Jose sets up the team?

Why is that we have -1 GD after third of a season, sitting in midtable? Is that because of Jose or Woodward, scouts and some external factors?

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Yes because he fell out with Pepe. Abit like how we see Bailly not playing now. Like that.

He also fell out with Ramos when he criticised his tactics. He also got dropped, now we like to say Ramos is a top class defender. I’m sure if he was at Madrid for longer Ramos would have been exciled.

wrong
- he fell out with pepe over benching him for varane (not the other way round)
- initial strain with ramos was over casillas and their close relationship with the spanish barca players. he totally fell out with ramos cos he assigned ramos to mark puyol but ramos left puyol to mark pique, leading to puyol scoring. When mourinho questioned ramos on why he didnt follow his instructions, ramos replied that mourinho wouldn't understand cos he never played football.

 

[roonster09]

So then you were cherry picking players to make a point, thanks for admitting that.

That point appears to be completely stupid because as I said, no manager can expect the club to replace the entire squad so he doesn't have to work with any of the players of the previous eras. Now just admit that many of Mourinho's underperforming key players are actually his signings and we can be on our way without having to drag the ever-absent Phil Jones into this again.

It's a very hard concept. People have this fantasy that every coach will get his won brand new squad. No club operates like that. I don't think any club will even make so many signings just because manager wanted them.

 

[Siorac]

Or I’ll just put you on ignore because you’re clearly a fecking wum and wasting my time with a bullshit argument that you can’t even follow yourself. You take care, princess.

Sweet, finally you admitted you have no argument whatsoever.

 

[Siorac]

It's a very hard concept. People have this fantasy that every coach will get his won brand new squad. No club operates like that. I don't think any club will even make so many signings just because manager wanted them.

And when these arguments happen, it's always Jones or even Darmian who het brought up, players who barely ever play! And they include Fellaini, too, one of Mourinho's favourites!

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Who is responsible for coaching the team into "Team"? Is Woodward running the training too? Why is that we can't string couple of passes together and plays like cowards? Why is that we drop so deep and our team have such a shit workrate? Is that because of Woodward or how Jose sets up the team?

Why is that we have -1 GD after third of a season, sitting in midtable? Is that because of Jose or Woodward, scouts and some external factors?

So, we’re just ignoring that I said Jose doesn’t matter? We’re just gonna keep on trucking with the same merry ground of bullshit? Moyes failed. Lvg failed. Jose this season has failed. His football has been not great for the 3 years he has been here, but I can’t say he failed. He won shit. This season we have fallen apart. Is that down to Jose? I don’t know. I can’t honestly say that a lot of those players would be any better under anyone else, can you? But what I can say for absolute fact is that there is far more wrong here than just one man and his tactics. It can’t be just moyes, just lvg and just Jose. If nothing else, it has to be the guy who picked three shit managers in a row. The man who over pays shit players so we can’t get rid of them.

So no, sacking Jose won’t fix us. Whoever comes in next will be just as screwed as the last three guys. Get rid of woody, and then you can have my full support for getting rid of Jose.

 

[roonster09]

So, we’re just ignoring that I said Jose doesn’t matter? We’re just gonna keep on trucking with the same merry ground of bullshit? Moyes failed. Lvg failed. Jose this season has failed. His football has been not great for the 3 years he has been here, but I can’t say he failed. He won shit. This season we have fallen apart. Is that down to Jose? I don’t know. I can’t honestly say that a lot of those players would be any better under anyone else, can you? But what I can say for absolute fact is that there is far more wrong here than just one man and his tactics. It can’t be just Moyes, just lvg and just Jose. If nothing else, it has to be the guy who picked three shit managers in a row. The man who over pays shit players so we can’t get rid of them.

So no, sacking Jose won’t fix us. Whoever comes in next will be just as screwed as the last three guys. Get rid of woody, and then you can have my full support for getting rid of Jose.

Getting rid of Woodward has nothing to do with the man responsible for coaching this team. What you said is true, we have more problems than Jose, doesn't mean we shouldn't sack him. It's not like any external factors are stopping him from coaching his team to play as a team.

Again you mention managers name when the players they played were different, yeah I mean core players, not squad players.

When you have good coach who makes team play as a team, then no one talks about structure and all that BS. These are the excuses when coach is doing a poor job. Liverpool had one good season under Rodgers before going shit, they didn't change much, just hired Klopp. Now everything looks perfect at Liverpool, when before Klopp, Liverpool fans were blaming their owners.

Everything at City remained same, except they signed Pep and they are looking like they will never get beat.

Chelsea also didn't change their structure. They hired Sarri who wanted Rugani, Higuain and ended up with Kovacic on loan, they are playing their best football in years or maybe forever in PL.

Arsenal more or less have same players and have added Emery, they are playing with lot of intensity and there is a clear pattern in their game.


People talk about structure and so many other things, I will never understand how that is related to what happens on the training pitch. Hiring proper DoF won't change how we play. It will only change whom we sign, before turning shit at ManUtd.

Finally, sacking Jose won't fix everything magically but it will be a step in right direction.

 

[Mainoldo]

wrong
- he fell out with pepe over benching him for varane (not the other way round)
- initial strain with ramos was over casillas and their close relationship with the spanish Barca players. he totally fell out with ramos cos he assigned ramos to mark puyol but ramos left puyol to mark pique, leading to puyol scoring. When Mourinho questioned ramos on why he didnt follow his instructions, ramos replied that Mourinho wouldn't understand cos he never played football.

Why did he drop Pepe? Because he fell out with him he was his go to go before that.

Yes that exactly what happened with Ramos but it was also built up frustration which caused him to go against the manager.

 

[SteveW]

The performance of the football team is apparently the fault of the chief exec not the manager. A bizarre idea to say the least.

It's Woodwards fault for giving the job to Jose but Jose is the problem. The idea that the right manager with a clear vision couldn't turn it around is silly. They just keep hiring the wrong ones

 

[Treble]

Woodward has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that this United team is out run in every game. The poor work rate is entirely on the manager. And it makes it unlikely that he will be able to turn it around.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Do not make false claims cos I never said Ibra or Pogba were first choices.

What i have said is that there is always a list of candidates for each position and that which of those candidates we sign does not depend on Mourinho but on Ed as he is the one that has to secure one of the targets or none.

As evidence, we tried to sign Varane but failed and ended up with Bailly. But to you cos Mourinho didnt say that Bailly was not his preferred choice after signing him then he must have been the only one Mourinho wanted all along. That is a very flawed logic.

FYI, that same summer, Kante confirmed that Mourinho contacted him about joining us but he declined cos he was already in advance talks with Chelsea. But for you, Mourinho never wanted Kante cos he said the players signed were the ones he wanted - that is what managers typically say!!!

Still haven't answered my question,who was our first choice for Pogba,Ibra and Lukaku? I don't buy your crap because it completely contradicts what Jose himself said. Jose himself said he had 4 targets and confirmed he had gotten them.You a random bloke on the Internet keep saying it's now a 'list of possible targets' basing your evidence on the fact. that we enquired about some dreamworld signings and specifically single out all his crap signings as 4th choices. Do you realise how stupid you make Jose sound telling us Varane was his first choice, who the feck is going to sell him to us? What about Bale?We've enquired about him before he must have been first choice for...Sanchez??He should go for Ramos, Kompany and Pique as well then. Next you'll be telling us Kane was first choice to Lukaku because we made enquiries. What sort of bollock logic is that? You've gone from defending Jose to painting him as an idiot who doesn't know what kind of players to target who are attainable

 

[Robbie Boy]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you mentalists.

 

[GhastlyHun]

At this point I believe the slight increase in 'no' votes is actually opposition fans who like the current state of play at United.

 

[el3mel]

I gave you a quote from the same article but you ignored your own source. So why are you criticising me for doing the same thing? Lol

Ignored what ?

You asked for a source, I brought it. If you don't want to believe him or try to look into thinga inbetween lines, it's up to you. Basing my point on an actual quote is better than basing it on my complete assumption.

You gave Madrid as your ideal world example then criticised Madrid when I pointed out there not that ideal. Either their good at their Strategy or not. Which one is it?

You say we lack strategy I think a policity brief from Ed saying the calibure of players we would spend big money on as a CB highlights we have a strategy. Wouldn’t you?

It's definitely the ideal considering the ripped some of the best success ever thanks to it. The season they won the league and CL double they had 2 teams not just one, and they were playing second string in the league to secure it while keeping their main players rested for CL, that level of squad depth is something not many clubs can dream of.

What's the strategy in refusing to pay for anyone bar Varane for 100m ? Do you believe whay you have just written ? This quote was no different than Wenger saying he wanted to get this and this but couldn't, just to save face because we couldn't get anyone

If we had had a strategy we wouldn't have been 6 years in post SAF under 3 managers and still enter each summer needing at least 4-5 players in positions with glaring weakness while City and Liverpool needed 2 good summers to transform their team completely wih focused signings in certain areas.

I didn’t say I believe everything is fine but I’m not going to pretend it’s f’d up because the lCantest man in charge is failing. Good transfers can fail because of poor environments etc. Fernando Torres was a good transfer but unfortunately his ankle was never the same. Wilfred Zaha was a good transfer but unfortunately we lost SAF. Juan Mata was a good transfer but unfortunately we had no style identity on how to use him. I could go on and on. So pointing out that we have crap policy or scouting because the environment isn’t designed for a signing to work is abit harsh. Well infact just plain naive

It's really weird you accused me previously of not reading while you're clearly not. I was talking about a certain issue regarding our scouting that has been persisting here for years and way before Mourinho arrived but you're again trying to make it revolve around the last 3 summers and about all kind of transfers. That's not the point I made earlier. I was talking about our ability to scout young prospects with world class potential and securing them for gold value, something we have been failure in for years and it's clearly due to scouting problem. What is Mata and Torres related with this ? I said big signings are on manager and CEO, while young prospects are on the scouts.

At this point I think it's fair to stop this discussion as I can't see it going any farther tbh with you.

 

[roonster09]

So now people are arguing that Jose wanted more than 4 signings in his first summer window? Jose himself said he wanted 4 and during his press conference he even said 4th is almost done.

 

[roonster09]

At this point I believe the slight increase in 'no' votes is actually opposition fans who like the current state of play at United.

You are underestimating 'Jose in' fans.

 

[VP89]

Even though I want Jose to stay I do agree he vastly miscalculated the quality of the squad and the transfers to go with it.

Thing is, our set up depends quite heavily on scouts to shortlist key players for us. Jose or no Jose we need an overhaul in so many areas.

 

[Leftback99]

Woodward has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that this United team is out run in every game. The poor work rate is entirely on the manager. And it makes it unlikely that he will be able to turn it around.

Woodward accepted but entirely on the manager? Do these players (the best paid in the PL no less) have no responsibility at all for working hard and having the ability to string together 3-4 passes?