The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[CA1]

Mourinho failed here. Forget developing players already at the club not even his own signings have shown improvement or produced what was expected.

Is there any actual evidence for this?

Success and failure is relative to the players at your disposal.

 

[mancan92]

Young-Smalling-Lindelof-Shaw

Just repeat that to the Mourinho haters to try and drag them into the real world and the full travesty of the situation.

I don't think Jesus Christ would finish in the top 4.

He chose to play that team. Last year city won the league with

Walker(great attacking can't defend)
Otimendi (everyone thought was a joke the season guardiola arrived)
Stones (completely unproven young overhyped player when guardiola arrived also can't defend)
Delph (a average at best centre midfielder never played in defence before)

He managed to get that defence to concede 5 goals in 15 matches.

 

[adexkola]

He chose to play that team. Last year city won the league with

Walker(great attacking can't defend)
Otimendi (everyone thought was a joke the season Guardiola arrived)
Stones (completely unproven young overhyped player when Guardiola arrived also can't defend)
Delph (a average at best centre midfielder never played in defence before)

He managed to get that defence to concede 5 goals in 15 matches.

Yeah but they don't need to defend, because... possession. Or something

 

[mancan92]

Walker and Robertson are the best RB and LB's in the league ffs.

VVD is the best centre half. Stones is an England regular, Smalling doesn't even get in the squad. Otamendi was a sought after defender.

You're talking shite basically.

Yeah do you know how they became that?
Due to the coaches they weren't before Klopp or pep

 

[Cerberus]

IF Jose was to leave during the season who would they choose anyway?

Probably best to get rid as soon as the season ends and then have more options.

But what do we have to lose, exactly, if he's sacked now? We know we're not making top four or winning the Champions League -- we simply do not have the consistency to do so and have lost too many games already -- and we also know that his football is not what the fans want, nor is it producing results.

 

[Canagel]

Is there any actual evidence for this?

Success and failure is relative to the players at your disposal.

It's almost like managers improving players is a concept that doesn't exist to you. Jose is failing because he hardly improved players. In fact players are regressing under his management.
Why didn't Jose improve any players like Klopp did?
Who are these world class players that our rivals have that we are missing out on?
I would like to know..

 

[Treble]

It's difficult to evaluate the actual quality of the squad because Jose's tactics doesn't help the players flourish and the team is out run in every single game.

Do people think that other managers cannot improve the work rate of the team significantly? Why? Do they realise how important running is in modern football?

Jose is responsible for the quality of the squad. He didn't start against City many of his expensive signings: Bailly (not even in the group), Sanchez, Fred, Lukaku, Dalot. They cost over 200m - more than the entire squads of midtable clubs. Its a bit rich to complain about spending when your expensive signings warm the bench.

 

[CA1]

It's difficult to evaluate the actual quality of the squad because Jose's tactics doesn't help the players flourish and the team is out run in every single game.

Do people think that other managers cannot improve the work rate of the team significantly? Why? Do they realise how important is running in modern football?

Jose is responsible for the quality of the squad. He didn't start against City many of his expensive signings: Bailly (not even in the group), Sanchez, Fred, Lukaku, Dalot. They cost over 200m - more than the entire squads of midtable clubs. Its a bit rich to complain about spending when your expensive signings warm the bench.

Well most of them were shite under Van Gaal, so that's two of the best managers in recent years.

I would bet on the players simply being shit.

People on this forum ever wondered why 95% of the English footballing pyramid never do well consistently? Because they haven't got the players, my friends. There's only so much coaching can do.

 

[Treble]

Well most of them were shite under Van Gaal, so that's two of the best managers in recent years.

I would bet on the players simply being shit.

People on this forum ever wondered why 95% of the English footballing pyramid never do well consistently? Because they haven't got the players, my friends. There's only so much coaching can do.

LVG and Jose had success in the past, wouldn't call them two of the best managers right now.

More importantly, Jose isn't buying well if many of his signings are not sufficiently good. And he doesn't train the available players well if they are being out run in every signle game.

 

[Fracture90]

Well most of them were shite under Van Gaal, so that's two of the best managers in recent years.

I would bet on the players simply being shit.

People on this forum ever wondered why 95% of the English footballing pyramid never do well consistently? Because they haven't got the players, my friends. There's only so much coaching can do.

Klopp seems do be doing something right since he coached Henderson and Milner into becoming integral parts of one of the best MF trio around.

 

[CA1]

LVG and Jose had success in the past, wouldn't call them two of the best managers right now.

More importantly, Jose isn't buying well if many of his signings are not sufficiently good. And he doesn't train the available players well if they are being out run in every signle game.

They'd not been anywhere and not won a league title until they came here.

 

[CA1]

Klopp seems do be doing something right since he coached Henderson and Milner into becoming integral parts of one of the best MF trio around.

Liverpool's midfield is their weakness. Hence why they spent big on it in the summer. Most Liverpool fans think having people like Henderson in the team is the reason they're being held back and why they haven't won anything yet.

 

[mancan92]

Liverpool's midfield is their weakness. Hence why they spent big on it in the summer. Most Liverpool fans think having people like Henderson in the team is the reason they're being held back and why they haven't won anything yet.

But it didn't stop them from beating city twice and playing fluid attacking football, getting in to the cl final and going in the right direction. That's the point.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

The thing ultimately for Jose is that he priorities success over anything else; this includes the players he uses, the way they play, the short term aspects of their age and functionality.

It's all well and good but I wouldnt give up much of the things I support United for just to scratch a title or 2 for a season or 2 at max. It is just not what I support United for; I'd rather support Chelsea if that was the case.

I support United because i want to see the utilisation of home grown players, the chances given to youth, the attacking intent and to occasionally scratch a win when we really need it. To do it all the time in this way under Jose - just feels weird and relatively cheap.

It's a feeling to me linked to having a prozzie instead of a girlfriend all the time just to get a fix. Just not that interested and neither am i that desperate.

 

[el3mel]

TBH the amount of underrating Milner gets here is mental. Do you guys watch Liverpool matches ?

 

[Hawks2008]

Well most of them were shite under Van Gaal, so that's two of the best managers in recent years.

I would bet on the players simply being shit.

People on this forum ever wondered why 95% of the English footballing pyramid never do well consistently? Because they haven't got the players, my friends. There's only so much coaching can do.

Then why did we make him the highest paid coach? Why bother with a guy with previous success if it's just about having the best players? If we just need the best squad or the most outlay then surely it doesn't matter who coaches the side at that point since there is only so much they can do.

 

[mancan92]

TBH the amount of underrating Milner gets here is mental. Do you guys watch Liverpool matches ?

Come on.... are you really gonna now go on as if Milner is a player anyone believes would improve us?

Oh why can't Jose get the money to buy Henderson and Milner? He only has a 50 million pound player on the bench each week

 

[CA1]

But it didn't stop them from beating city twice and playing fluid attacking football, getting in to the cl final and going in the right direction. That's the point.

Liverpool are shite mate. This is the best they've been for years so they're happy. If you look in the cold light of day (as I'm superb at) you'd see they are a team going nowhere fast.

 

[WR10]

Why does he take so long to act on something? Sanchez, Matic, Lukaku, Valencia, young - all players that should have been dropped 5 games prior?

 

[Judas]

Liverpool are shite mate. This is the best they've been for years so they're happy. If you look in the cold light of day (as I'm superb at) you'd see they are a team going nowhere fast.

What the hell are we then?

 

[CA1]

What the hell are we then?

We're awful.

Where have I said any different? You forget you're talking to the man who thinks we won't win another league title for the next decade under these owners and board.

I'm the most negative about our players remember. We have 2 good ones. De Gea and Pogba. We have smatterings of good players on their day like Sanchez, Martial, Rashford.

Players win you games

 

[el3mel]

Come on.... are you really gonna now go on as if Milner is a player anyone believes would improve us?

Oh why can't Jose get the money to buy Henderson and Milner? He only has a 50 million pound player on the bench each week

I didn't say that but anyone who watches Liverpool matches and sees his crazy and inhuman work rate he does in midfield then comes here and mocks him or puts him in same sentence with a nothing player like Henderson need to check out his football knowledge. The sport isn't all about shiny and flashy names.

 

[Canagel]

Liverpool are shite mate. This is the best they've been for years so they're happy. If you look in the cold light of day (as I'm superb at) you'd see they are a team going nowhere fast.

They are a very good team. If they don't win things soon Klopp will get stick but the club saw enough in these three years to suggest he's taking them in the right direction.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Sooooo, it’s still absolutely everyone’s fault bar Jose’s?

 

[Bilbo]

Sooooo, it’s still absolutely everyone’s fault bar Jose’s?

Its Fergusons fault. Left a squad of average players that 5 seasons, 10 windows, 3 managers & hundreds of millions of pounds in signings have not been able to improve upon.

 

[CA1]

Sooooo, it’s still absolutely everyone’s fault bar Jose’s?

I said from Day One this season would be absolutely wank.

One of those reasons because I think Mourinho is very poor when things don't go his way. He's not one for pragmatism in that sense. There's elements of Borderline and self destruct to his personality when he feels slighted.

Thats why I said if the board weren't going to back him, they should sack him.

I personally feel it was a shame they didn't back him as the evidence that we were improving was there (league position, CL participation etc)

 

[Cloud7]

If you look in the cold light of day (as I'm superb at)

Really, I mean really. How is it not obvious at this point that this poster is a WUM?

 

[Fracture90]

Liverpool's midfield is their weakness. Hence why they spent big on it in the summer. Most Liverpool fans think having people like Henderson in the team is the reason they're being held back and why they haven't won anything yet.

You're deflecting. I didn't ask you what is their weakness but rather making the point how come Klopp is managed to coach some extremely mediocre players into amazing role players but for some reason Mourinho can't do anything if he isn't provided with world class player in every position. Remember you said "there's only so much coaching can do"

In trying to downplay the importance of Henderson you actually managed to contract your own "coaching" point since Klopp's coaching had made that MF of Liverpool's into a proper EPL contender and got them into CL final last season.

Either way MF depth was their weakness, and depth in general was their weakness not Henderson. You don't need to make things up.

Besides now that we've established you don't have me on ignore but rather you're ignoring my questions to you, would you be willing to answer another question you've ignored?

You said Sarri has been bang average so far this season, well now I'm curious what is your opinion on how Mourinho has fared so far this season, wha your opinion and judgement?

 

[Fracture90]

Sooooo, it’s still absolutely everyone’s fault bar Jose’s?

Sold!

 

[mancan92]

I didn't say that but anyone who watches Liverpool matches and sees his crazy and inhuman work rate he does in midfield then comes here and mocks him or puts him in same sentence with a nothing player like Henderson need to check out his football knowledge. The sport isn't all about shiny and flashy names.

You know we already have a milner in our squad? Herrera who also happens to be better technically aswell.

It's a nothing point you bring up because we have players in the same class and type as milner anyway

 

[el3mel]

You know we already have a milner in our squad? Herrera who also happens to be better technically aswell.

It's a nothing point you bring up because we have players in the same class and type as milner anyway

Milner is far more consistent than Herrera, who has many terrible matches mixed with good ones. Beside, Milner is 32. Can you imagine a 32 years old midfielder that can't stop running or pressing with crazy and superhuman work rate ?

It's the same situation as Sterling, who United fans kept mocking and underrating him for years and don't want to accept that he's a top player. I know it's hard to rate English players from Liverpool and City but that's reality.

You can't put Milner in same sentence with Henderson. It means that you don't even watch Liverpool matches to start with.

 

[Irwin99]

It's difficult to evaluate the actual quality of the squad because Jose's tactics doesn't help the players flourish and the team is out run in every single game.

Do people think that other managers cannot improve the work rate of the team significantly? Why? Do they realise how important running is in modern football?

Jose is responsible for the quality of the squad. He didn't start against City many of his expensive signings: Bailly (not even in the group), Sanchez, Fred, Lukaku, Dalot. They cost over 200m - more than the entire squads of midtable clubs. Its a bit rich to complain about spending when your expensive signings warm the bench.

That's true and I REALLY wish someone would question him about his own signings in the media because this is my biggest criticism of him. I think however he has a point to question the club's ambition when we finished a massive amount of points behind City and bought only a 50 million midfielder (who came from a poor league and supposedly needs time to adapt), a 3rd choice keeper, and a prospect right back. To have any chance of closing that gap on City we needed at least another 150 million spent. The board simply can not think that we would win the league with just Fred as the only real addition.

 

[bleedred]

We're awful.

Where have I said any different? You forget you're talking to the man who thinks we won't win another league title for the next decade under these owners and board.

I'm the most negative about our players remember. We have 2 good ones. De Gea and Pogba. We have smatterings of good players on their day like Sanchez, Martial, Rashford.

Players win you games

Yes, the players are to blame and are not good enough against better sides. But when we have consistently struggled and lost against relegation fodder,do we still keep blaming the players.

I mean do the likes of Derby, Bristol, West brom and West ham have better players than us?

 

[tonnas]

Is there any actual evidence for this?

Success and failure is relative to the players at your disposal.

Oh please. If you think Jose has not failed you are deluded.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Its Fergusons fault. Left a squad of average players that 5 seasons, 10 windows, 3 managers & hundreds of millions of pounds in signings have not been able to improve upon.

Ah, sound logic, I like it.

 

[Kearnkoff69]

Looking at the objective facts, it's impossible to absolve Jose of blame even if you think it's the players' fault. We consistently come out of the gates playing with zero energy, a lack of focus, and a general lack of intensity - even in derby games and must-win CL ties. This has been happening since Moyes was here.

Looking at the squad now, the holdovers from Moyes are: Young, Fellaini, Mata, Smalling, Jones, De Gea, and Valencia. Of those, Jones rarely plays and De Gea sits in goal all day so he can hardly be part of the intensity problem. That leaves five outfield players, none of them consistent starters anymore (save perhaps Young), who were here when we first started the descent into sluggishness.

Jose has almost entirely re-hauled the starting 11, and we still come out in games looking like we've all passed a couple doobies around in our pre-game huddle. This isn't a situation where one particular party bears the entirety of the blame, but even the most ardent Jose supporters must recognize that with a refresh of our squad we continue to struggle with the same issues that have plagued us since Fergie retired. There may be a lack of quality involved, but the management has been miserable. Look at what a coach like Klopp is doing with players once thought of as talentless workhorses (Milner, Henderson, etc.) and babies fresh from the academy (Alexander-Arnold).

A good coach is able to coax the very best version out of his players. Say what you will about our team's talent ceiling, but it is undeniable that we have not seen any one of our lads play at even 80% of his ceiling on a consistent basis. That's damming in my eyes.

 

[Minimalist]

Sooooo, it’s still absolutely everyone’s fault bar Jose’s?

Yes.

Unpopular Opinion:
It's really Bayern Munich's fault for capitulating in 1999.

A chain event that plagues us to this day. Expectations were set far too high from that point on and now a brilliant, highly personable man like Jose 'Sweetheart' Mourinho is being unfairly hounded out because he can't get a team of Kevin Kilbanes into the top four. He's been given no money to spend in the transfer market and even worse to player morale, the club canteen is now forced to use Tesco own-brand food products for meals.

It's a disgrace and the fanbase calling for Josie's head should take a good long hard look at itself.
And then raise three fingers and repeat 'respect'.

 

[Canagel]

That's true and I REALLY wish someone would question him about his own signings in the media because this is my biggest criticism of him. I think however he has a point to question the club's ambition when we finished a massive amount of points behind City and bought only a 50 million midfielder (who came from a poor league and supposedly needs time to adapt), a 3rd choice keeper, and a prospect right back. To have any chance of closing that gap on City we needed at least another 150 million spent. The board simply can not think that we would win the league with just Fred as the only real addition.

There would be more sympathy if we were just behind City but we're not. It's not boards fault that we get beaten by teams like Derby, West Ham, Brighton and consistently outplayed by teams built on a fraction of our budget.
I can kind of understand if Jose fans blame board if buying this special defender was the difference from 2nd to winning the PL but it's not. We're not getting value for money.
I mean we can't get more than 1 shot on the goal in derby but iit's Ed fault for not getting another CB? After already getting two and their confidence was shattered.
Bollocks

 

[Gerardo Islas]

I'll just leave this here

 

[CA1]

There would be more sympathy if we were just behind City but we're not. It's not boards fault that we get beaten by teams like Derby, West Ham, Brighton and consistently outplayed by teams built on a fraction of our budget.
I can kind of understand if Jose fans blame board if buying this special defender was the difference from 2nd to winning the PL but it's not. We're not getting value for money.
I mean we can't get more than 1 shot on the goal in derby but iit's Ed fault for not getting another CB? After already getting two and their confidence was shattered.
Bollocks

Liverpool barely had a shot against them and they were at home.