The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%

  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%

  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%
  • Total voters
    2,977
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sincher said:
It ain't all JM's fault chaps, and certainly it isn't all about 'coaching'.

I mean looking at the City match you could just look at the line ups and envisage a bit of a tonking.

De Gea - Young, Lindelof, Smalling, Shaw - Matic, Herrera, Fellaini - Martial, Lingard, Rashford

Ederson - Walker, Stones, Laporte, Mendy - Fernandinho, B.Silva, D.Silva, Sterling, Mahrez - Aguero

Gulf in quality really. Their defence is better, their midfield is WAY better, their attack is way better - and they are in great form. Some of that is Mourinho's fault, but not all. You could play that match (at the Etihad) 100 times with different tactics and coaching and what have you, and I reckon City would win 90+.
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Um. Yes it bloody fecking is. Forget City. Look at the rest of the teams in the league. Many of them embody their managers in a lot of ways. Klopp has imprinted his own style on Liverpool and they are slowly kicking into gear. Wolves play intelligent passing football. Howe has always been praised for playing good football with Bournemouth. Poch and Emery I needed not say.

Now you look at our identity after three years of Jose being in charge. What is it? Oh yea. Hoofball, slow, static, non-existent movement, ignoring of technical players in favour of tall / favourites, a changing gameplan from week to week, terrible defence.
 
mancan92 said:
In all competitions Perisic got 11 goals and assists. That is not better than Martial and similar to Rashford in a less league
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In all competitions? united played 2 additional competitons!

The closest thing to a fair comparison is league performance in which every club plays 38 games in a season.

Perisic stats puts him 13th in goals and 8th in assists, while Martial didnt break into the top 20, in either category
 
Adisa said:
I find it incredible that some are saying a negative GD after 12 games does not matter.
What the feck is wrong with some of you?
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I'm Jose In, but even I am finding it hard to get my head around this.
Logically, if you told me that we would be in 8th place, not a shot on goal against MCFC, with a negative GD, I'd unequivocally say, "SACK THE MANAGER....NOW!" Even a caretaker manager could do better than this.

But, the problem we are having currently, all stemmed from what happened in the Summer.
We finished 2nd last season and we were all set to spend more money in the Summer to push us to the title. Instead, we got a teenager (who was not bought to play this season) and Fred (who is below Herrera in the pecking order). Oh and lets not forget Grant Mitchell, formerly of Eastenders. We may as well not have signed anybody.

Given Woodward's incompetence on how he handled Jose and the transfer dealings, I am pushing part (not all), of the blame onto Woodward. Had Woodward got 3-4 signings, all of Jose's choice and we were in 8th, I think Jose would've been fired. But given that Woodward is partially to blame, I think that this is Jose's saving grace. Of course, it also helped that we made some exciting comebacks against several teams and we are now once again, very difficult to beat, even when we are behind. Under Moyes/LVG, if we went behind, there was almost no chance we'd ever come back.

Regarding the MCFC game, I am giving Jose a free pass on that game, given that they are so far ahead of everybody. I do however, hold him responsible for us not having a shot on goal. That is inexcusable, but not sackworthy.

As many others have said, the board should've either backed the manager or replaced him. By doing something which is in-between, a lot of the blame has fallen on Woodward and Jose is getting off scott-free.
 
LeftyBlaster said:
Now you look at our identity after three years of Jose being in charge. What is it? Oh yea. Hoofball, slow, static, non-existent movement, ignoring of technical players in favour of tall / favourites, a changing gameplan from week to week, terrible defence.
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It's certainly not good enough. I can handle the slow/static style, but the obsession with tall players has to stop. It's killing us, right now.
Need to bring in some smaller/mobile/technical players, who can dictate the play.
 
sunama said:
It's certainly not good enough. I can handle the slow/static style, but the obsession with tall players has to stop. It's killing us, right now.
Need to bring in some smaller/mobile/technical players, who can dictate the play.
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Jose wouldn't have a clue as to what to do with them. He is incapable of coaching progressive football. We have no set game plan. Our performance are proof of that. We have no patterns of play, no movement, no team effort to create a goal.
 
sunama said:
I'm Jose In, but even I am finding it hard to get my head around this.
Logically, if you told me that we would be in 8th place, not a shot on goal against MCFC, with a negative GD, I'd unequivocally say, "SACK THE MANAGER....NOW!" Even a caretaker manager could do better than this.

But, the problem we are having currently, all stemmed from what happened in the Summer.
We finished 2nd last season and we were all set to spend more money in the Summer to push us to the title. Instead, we got a teenager (who was not bought to play this season) and Fred (who is below Herrera in the pecking order). Oh and lets not forget Grant Mitchell, formerly of Eastenders. We may as well not have signed anybody.

Given Woodward's incompetence on how he handled Jose and the transfer dealings, I am pushing part (not all), of the blame onto Woodward. Had Woodward got 3-4 signings, all of Jose's choice and we were in 8th, I think Jose would've been fired. But given that Woodward is partially to blame, I think that this is Jose's saving grace. Of course, it also helped that we made some exciting comebacks against several teams and we are now once again, very difficult to beat, even when we are behind. Under Moyes/LVG, if we went behind, there was almost no chance we'd ever come back.

Regarding the MCFC game, I am giving Jose a free pass on that game, given that they are so far ahead of everybody. I do however, hold him responsible for us not having a shot on goal. That is inexcusable, but not sackworthy.

As many others have said, the board should've either backed the manager or replaced him. By doing something which is in-between, a lot of the blame has fallen on Woodward and Jose is getting off scott-free.
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I see your points but I disagree.
You can blame Ed Woodward for our failure to challenge for the title. You can't blame him for us being 8th with a negative GD. Even with the poor summer, our Squad is way better than that.
 
VP89 said:
If we don't look considerably better against the fixtures we have left for 2018 it's fair to say Mourinho's training on starting the games quicker definately isn't working!
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Should players need to be trained to start matches with greater intensity?
Put me on the pitch and I'll run around like a madman from minute 1. I don't need to be told to work hard, I'll put in the graft off my own back.
I don't think that you can tell a player to play with more intensity - this has to come from his own motivation and normally, this happens when we go a goal behind and begin chasing the game.
 
Adisa said:
I see your points but I disagree.
You can blame Ed Woodward for our failure to challenge for the title. You can't blame him for us being 8th with a negative GD. Even with the poor summer, our Squad is way better than that.
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Our squad is better than 8th. Of course.
But Woodward dropped Jose's level of morale and motivation, to rock bottom. When this happens to any employee, it takes some time to bring those levels back up. In Jose's case, it took about 6 weeks for this to happen. It was that Newcastle match which changed things and I think it was down to the crowd support he received that day. The reinvigorated him, put fire in his belly and this translated in us having a good run.

Conversely, it was Woodwards poor management skills in the Summer, which removed Jose's "fire", in the first instance.

Woodward has to take some of the blame, here.
 
@cheeky_backheel

So was Sanchez, right? So was Matić who after initial couple of months has spiraled down in term of performances. Then there are the injuries that Toby has been a victim of lately.

Perišić had a fallout with Klopp in Dortmund when Dortmund was amongst the best teams in the Europe and he he failed to make his mark there, and there were reports he also had falling out with teammates in Inter...

There's absolutely no indication they'd change our team from the get go, or that they would make any kind of positive impact whatsoever.
 
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cheeky_backheel said:
In all competitions? united played 2 additional competitons!

The closest thing to a fair comparison is league performance in which every club plays 38 games in a season.

Perisic stats puts him 13th in goals and 8th in assists, while Martial didnt break into the top 20, in either category
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You point doesn’t matter anyway because Perisic played 800 more minutes than martial anyway
 
sunama said:
Our squad is better than 8th. Of course.
But Woodward dropped Jose's level of morale and motivation, to rock bottom. When this happens to any employee, it takes some time to bring those levels back up. In Jose's case, it took about 6 weeks for this to happen. It was that Newcastle match which changed things and I think it was down to the crowd support he received that day. The reinvigorated him, put fire in his belly and this translated in us having a good run.

Conversely, it was Woodwards poor management skills in the Summer, which removed Jose's "fire", in the first instance.

Woodward has to take some of the blame, here.
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I'm not excusing Ed of anything. I just think the least you can expect from a manger earning £15m a year is manage the situation as best as possible and just crack on with his job of coaching.
Pochettino was in a similar situation if not worse and with more of his players arriving later due to the WC and he didn't meltdown.
Our failure of a summer meant a title challenge was never likely but there's no excuse for our worst league start in the EPL era. In any case, my opinion now isn't just based on our start.
Saying that, we are stuck with each other till next summer at the earliest. I just hope we can make top four and then see where we are.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
So you think Smalling and co are better? Keeping in mind that guy that has been poor defensively has led a defence that has conceded less than half the number of goals as ours.
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And if it weren't for Toby's brainfarts (like the one vs. PSV) that number would probably have been even lower.

I'm curious is it all down to them having Toby in their team or maybe is them having a proper system and style in which they always strive to have more possession than the opponents, playing it's part as well? Bear in mind they're not just hoofing the ball at the first sign of danger, they rather love to have the ball at their feet.

sunama said:
It's certainly not good enough. I can handle the slow/static style, but the obsession with tall players has to stop. It's killing us, right now.
Need to bring in some smaller/mobile/technical players, who can dictate the play.
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Players like Pereira and Fred maybe?
 
Its really difficult to see us making top 4 now, even at this early stage. All bar a handful of matches we are capable of winning or losing at the moment, and we will win plenty but we will also lose some. We will likely lose 10 league games this season. You don't lose 10 games and finish top four. A 6 or 7 game winning run looks well beyond us.

Long way to go and I hope I'm wrong of course, but all the ingredients are there for a 5th of 6th place finish. I think the club will look to spend in January but I struggle to see who we are going to be able to sign that will kick this team up a level in terms of consistency.
 
IF Jose was to leave during the season who would they choose anyway?

Probably best to get rid as soon as the season ends and then have more options.
 
He is turning himself into a laughing stock with the deluded nonsense he spouts, his comments before and after the City game were cringeworthy, the way he seems to suggest that United can't match City because of their spending power and United did well to finish second last season are beyond belief. Saying he thinks United are improving under him is just plain ridiculous.
Guardiola buys players and gets the best out of them and they play as a team. Mourinho buys players and then performs the footballing equivalent of turning wine into water.
 
sunama said:
Should players need to be trained to start matches with greater intensity?
Put me on the pitch and I'll run around like a madman from minute 1. I don't need to be told to work hard, I'll put in the graft off my own back.
I don't think that you can tell a player to play with more intensity - this has to come from his own motivation and normally, this happens when we go a goal behind and begin chasing the game.
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This is purely tactical IMO, and it's exactly why I made the thread about Mourinho's cowardly tactics.

We start the game in a negative mindframe, it's about containing the opposition and looking for a counter. This is counter productive as we end up retreating, then get blown apart by 3rd man runs that aren't tracked. As soon as we go a goal down the team push up higher, start pressing higher and generally trying to win the ball back quicker.

Compare how we started against City compared to how we played after they scored. This can't purely be a mental problem as it happens so often, and it's not just 1 or 2 players.

Yes I know Jose gave that interview about wanting them to start faster, but what does he mean by that? he could just mean "I wish they weren't conceding so early".

His tactics just don't work with this team, we should be aiming on keeping the ball away from our goal as much as possible, not inviting teams to attack it.
 
The Cat said:
IF Jose was to leave during the season who would they choose anyway?

Probably best to get rid as soon as the season ends and then have more options.
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United need to sack managers early to give opportunities to homegrown managers & ex players.

It may sound stupid - but it's a way of knocking 2 birds with one stone. You give them a go & see if they are able to produce from the off & if it's worth continuing or not - or then stop that as well to hire the next proven manager.

For example - if Moyes has been sacked earlier then Giggs would have more than 4 games - a amount we could probably have seen if he was ever capable or the right fit. Right now we have fans like myself still wondering if he is a good manager in the coming or just an average one because we have not seen him in the role.

Jose needs to go & get either Carrick or Butt in. If they don't seem to be able to do things relatively well from the off then being in someone else.
 
Ed Woodward gave every Jose In person such a massive helping hand by not fully backing Jose in the summer, they can now wheel that out as an excuse for the dross we see.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
United need to sack managers early to give opportunities to homegrown managers & ex players.

It may sound stupid - but it's a way of knocking 2 birds with one stone. You give them a go & see if they are able to produce from the off & if it's worth continuing or not - or then stop that as well to hire the next proven manager.

For example - if Moyes has been sacked earlier then Giggs would have more than 4 games - a amount we could probably have seen if he was ever capable or the right fit. Right now we have fans like myself still wondering if he is a good manager in the coming or just an average one because we have not seen him in the role.

Jose needs to go & get either Carrick or Butt in. If they don't seem to be able to do things relatively well from the off then being in someone else.
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If the plan was to give one of those half a season I'd have no problem with it. But not sure I would want to if they are not seriously being considered as permanent appointments.
 
The man has spent 180 million quid on our midfield and still hasn't improved it one but from when he took over. It's quite amazing if you think about it.
 
this so called "good run" since the newcastle match is overstated in my opinion:

drew against chelsea
lost to Juve
beat everton 2-1
beat bournemouth 1-2 (coming from behind)
beat Juve (coming from behind, and what was likely the biggest fluke win this season)
got battered by City

i'm just not impressed tbh, but i guess our standards have dropped drastically.

 
Guardiola probable team if he took over 2016??

DDG
Walker Bailly Stones Shaw
Jorginho
Mata B Silva
Mahrez Sanchez Martial

Roughly 130 million on the defence
100 million on the midfield
60 million in the attack​
That's just 6 signings. For roughly 300m
Less than what we spend already under jose

Jose didn't spend his money well enough.
​
 
cheeky_backheel said:
In all competitions? united played 2 additional competitons!

The closest thing to a fair comparison is league performance in which every club plays 38 games in a season.

Perisic stats puts him 13th in goals and 8th in assists, while Martial didnt break into the top 20, in either category
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Martial managed 9 goals and 5 assists in 1582 minutes. Perisic managed 11 goals and 11 assists in 3317.

If Martial was given anything close to the same level of minutes he'd have comfortably outperformed him, as we're seeing this season.
 
LeftyBlaster said:
Jose wouldn't have a clue as to what to do with them. He is incapable of coaching progressive football. We have no set game plan. Our performance are proof of that. We have no patterns of play, no movement, no team effort to create a goal.
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I agree Mourinho doesn’t want those kind of players, allow him to rip it up and start again and he will just want a new version of Matic or Lukaku.

Even if he did want to change he wouldn’t know what to do, he wants to control games by not having the ball rather than dictate what happens with it.

Arsenal and Chelsea have shown how quickly patterns of play and a new style can be implemented, we still don’t have any after two and a half years.

Moyes, LVG and Mourinho all suffered because their tactics are outdated and they just couldn’t adapt. All three have been left scratching their heads and trying to convince themselves and everyone else that the only way to improve is buying world class players.
 
Young-Smalling-Lindelof-Shaw

Just repeat that to the Mourinho haters to try and drag them into the real world and the full travesty of the situation.

I don't think Jesus Christ would finish in the top 4.
 
RedSky said:
Last 20 PL Games our Goal Difference is +4. :lol:

Citys is +45.
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Not sure whether to laugh or cry. fecking hell, GD of 4 and this season negative GD and we still have people backing him.
 
roonster09 said:
It's ok though, it's because of structural issues at club, nothing to do with Jose's cowardly tactics :lol:
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Such an overused term especially by people having no clue what it actually means.

We have a very basic structure where most of the control lies at the manager's hands in terms of transfers (to reasonable extent) and everything else. We have no structure essentially, hence having a right manager is so crucial given the amount of power one has at our club. Therefore, pointing at the direction of structural problems when we have no structure in the first place is a sign of a person that's trying to pretend a more clever than he actually is.
 
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Rajma said:
Such an overused term especially by people having no clue what it actually means.
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Well pep team plays well because of structure at city, nothing to do with his coaching. Same with Jose. At least that's what are convinced with.
 
Controversial opinon:

Proper fans blame Woodward and The Glazers

Plastic fans blame Mourinho

Very simple scenario.
 
I enjoy this thread, some of the arguments pro and against Mourinho are just hilarious enough to make me smile at work.
Thanks guys :)
 
CA1 said:
Controversial opinon:

Proper fans blame Woodward and The Glazers

Plastic fans blame Mourinho

Very simple scenario.
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:lol: Wonder what kind of fans hope opposition player to tear apart ManUtd defenders. Liverpool fan?
 
CA1 said:
Controversial opinon:

Proper fans blame Woodward and The Glazers

Plastic fans blame Mourinho

Very simple scenario.
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Non arse-lickers realize there's plenty of blame to go around starting with the architect of some of the worst football in the country and then the bumbling oaf who thought that extended him was a good idea
 
CA1 said:
Controversial opinon:

Proper fans blame Woodward and The Glazers

Plastic fans blame Mourinho

Very simple scenario.
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Both are accountable, it isn't black and white. Would not expect a bootlicker to understand though.
 
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