Let's say you get the holy grail of a manager you want, who is available and who wants to come, surely it would be a huge wasted opportunity to bring said manager in before the club sorts out it's recruitment problems of lack of long-term strategy, identity, leadership, etc ? Otherwise, how does that manager perform to their best ?
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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I'm sorry, but if we manage to get 3rd with how rubbish he has us looking half the time it would be a success. We're miles away from being good enough to finish 3rd.
I've been trying to put this politely and articulately for years now but it's time to just be blunt:
Im not saying everything is his fault, but if you can't see how Mourinhio needs to leave ASAP then you've either been brainwashed by the constant jibberish he spews before and after every match (and that's just the small percentage that enters the public domain) OR, just like him, you're out of touch with the current state of the game, end of.
Im not saying everything is his fault, but if you can't see how Mourinhio needs to leave ASAP then you've either been brainwashed by the constant jibberish he spews before and after every match (and that's just the small percentage that enters the public domain) OR, just like him, you're out of touch with the current state of the game, end of.
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Please just go now. Enough is enough, yesterday was pathetic, embarrassing, sad to watch but the worst aspect is I wasn't in the least bit surprised and actually a little relieved it was only 3-1. I am sure I wasn't the only one. I seriously doubt there were many United players who actually believed they could or would win the match.
Mourinho's deluded psychobabble BS just makes things worse. He is a dinosaur who needs to be consigned to history, he says United are in a battle for a top 4 place - which isn't good enough for United anyway - but at this rate I'd say a battle to finish in the top half of the table is more realistic.
Mourinho's deluded psychobabble BS just makes things worse. He is a dinosaur who needs to be consigned to history, he says United are in a battle for a top 4 place - which isn't good enough for United anyway - but at this rate I'd say a battle to finish in the top half of the table is more realistic.
I just threw up in my mouth.
Makes me think that they are at least going to implement structure then perhaps Joses days are numbered. Especially with him basically saying he doesn’t need assistance to make decisions. Fergie recognized that the game was moving in when he employed Steve mcclaren as coach who was known back then as really innovative in using technology and data to get more from players. Jose is stuck in the past where the manager went with his gut instinct
He said it wasn't a bad performance yesterday. It's done, he's finished.
Think so aswell, 3rd or 4th place.
I agree by which time we’ll be 7th or 8th. Muppet League territory again. Big issue is who will want to come to us with no Director of Football and Woodward with his wallet shut?
For me it's really this simple.
In order to keep your job as Manchester United manager you need to be doing at least two of the following three things:
- Promoting and developing youth at a high level
- Playing an exciting brand of football
- Seriously challenging for the trophies that matter the most (the league and the CL)
Mourinho has completely failed to do any of these three things during his time here (even Van Gaal at least was spot on with the first one). On top of that, his results this season are the worst that it's been here since Fergie. I mean after 12 matches under Moyes in 2013-14 we had 21 points and after 12 under Jose this year we have 20. That is disgraceful and should have seen him out the door already.
I'm worried that the board is only looking at this from a financial perspective and not a footballing one though and will only sack him when we're mathematically eliminated from the top 4 (like they did with Moyes and LVG).
In order to keep your job as Manchester United manager you need to be doing at least two of the following three things:
- Promoting and developing youth at a high level
- Playing an exciting brand of football
- Seriously challenging for the trophies that matter the most (the league and the CL)
Mourinho has completely failed to do any of these three things during his time here (even Van Gaal at least was spot on with the first one). On top of that, his results this season are the worst that it's been here since Fergie. I mean after 12 matches under Moyes in 2013-14 we had 21 points and after 12 under Jose this year we have 20. That is disgraceful and should have seen him out the door already.
I'm worried that the board is only looking at this from a financial perspective and not a footballing one though and will only sack him when we're mathematically eliminated from the top 4 (like they did with Moyes and LVG).
How though? This means ALL of Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal will need to keep dropping points whilst we show consistency for the rest of the entire season.
We never control matches. We always concede first and have to chase games.
We aren’t getting fourth let alone third. Quote me on that.
Talent wise United are deeper and better equipped to handle the scrum of games around Christmas. That's when standings become more concrete.
Yeah this was a tough run of games for united and on paper the results don't look too bad. Its the manner of the results though, Juventus was a well executed smash and grab but it was clear that we couldn't match them toe to toe in footballing terms. Similarly with City our best chance of winning came down to frustrating them and nicking a late equalizer/winner. We've had our arse handed to us under SAF and we've played some dire football in his latter years but I don't recall ever going into a match with that mentality.
We can talk about backing the manager but I don't see his mindset or approach changing if he gets Toby or Maguire.
I dont get this, I can see us dropping plenty more points, currently we are on target for 63 points come season end. We only conceded a total of 28 goals in league last year and already on 20. Plus all the teams that finished below us last year are doing better this season. I think we will finish 6th at best.
Yeah it feels very Van Gaal 15/16 edition to me, in the manager looks out of place at the club but is being given enough respect and faith to complete the season and achieve whatever can be achieved. That season it was (hopefully) top 4 but really the FA cup. This season it'll be challenge for top 4 which will be very tough and then let's see in the cups. Mourinho just doesn't feel like a proper Manchester United manager who is 'the boss'. He appears to be hovering near the cliff and it's just a question of when he's going to drop.
I'd love for him to completely turn it around of course. And I'll praise him when he does well , as I did post the Juve. But I can't help but feel he is the wrong man for the job.
Get a proper attacking coach in. We need to develop an attacking foundation to build upon and then take it from there.
This is another myth created by some United fans.
We have some good players but we don’t have quality in depth. When Pogba is missing we look awful.
Yeah well, that's what Fred was brought in to do and if we play a team that isn't significantly better than us, our coward of a manager might even let him play.
4th is a possibility because our squad is IMO stronger than all the other contenders. However, given how poorly we appear to be managed, all of that is negated, and possibly more. But I have little faith it Mourinho. Like LVG maybe he'll stumble upon a decent run but the foundations of great work are missing.
I think the biggest indictment against him is the time he has been in charge, the money he has spent, and the fact that he's not using most of his recruits. I can understand the reluctance by the board to fully trust him in who to go for, because he hasn't shown that he can get whatever player he's looking for to play to their level, and then they might end up just being a very expensive bench warmer. With the way the market is, if you want a player that's got the potential to improve your team, it's going to cost a lot of money. Mistakes have far lesser margins for error than they used to financially.
Our squad isn’t better though. I would take Chelsea and Spurs squads over ours. Look at Spurs midfield. Winks, Dembele, Dier, Wanyama etc. Their defenders are way better. You could argue that Son can stand in for Kane.
We vastly overrate our squad. It’s big yes. But it’s like the Liverpool sides under Benitez. Loads of players who aren’t actually that good and a manager who is negative.
Pogba was terrible against Juve, like completely owned by their midfield and we won. Mourinho's 1st season ? He was out performed by Ander Herrera. If I'm not mistaken Pogba has been available for most of this season and we're 8th with a negative GD.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Pogba. I often feel I'm tuning in to watch him and Martial as they're the only who bring any joy to me as a United fan these days. And he's a terrific footballer who I wouldn't sell for 150 million. But there's a tendancy to overrate the influence of a player who missed a game you just lost.s star
I've just changed my vote to yes. It's time to look for someone else.
I don't lay all the blame on Mourinho, I think most of our players just aren't up to scratch, but he's partially responsible for our signings, and certainly for the playing style. I don't think any manager would have us challenging for the PL or CL with this squad, however that shouldn't mean resorting to the levels of negativity being reflected in our tactics.
The thing that really got me yesterday was him saying all three City goals were as a result of individual mistakes. Even if that were the case, you can't concede that amount of possession and territory to a team as good as City and not expect them to force errors from us. We can't rely on being 100% error free each match in order to not concede, and then convert our handful of half-chances at the other end.
I would love him to be the right man for the job, the Jose of the first Chelsea stint would have been perfect for us, but unfortunately he seems a shadow of his former self.
I don't lay all the blame on Mourinho, I think most of our players just aren't up to scratch, but he's partially responsible for our signings, and certainly for the playing style. I don't think any manager would have us challenging for the PL or CL with this squad, however that shouldn't mean resorting to the levels of negativity being reflected in our tactics.
The thing that really got me yesterday was him saying all three City goals were as a result of individual mistakes. Even if that were the case, you can't concede that amount of possession and territory to a team as good as City and not expect them to force errors from us. We can't rely on being 100% error free each match in order to not concede, and then convert our handful of half-chances at the other end.
I would love him to be the right man for the job, the Jose of the first Chelsea stint would have been perfect for us, but unfortunately he seems a shadow of his former self.
I believe it is better. Spurs' squad gets massively overrated here and naturally so, due to the excellent job done by Pochettino. That midfield you just listed doesnt stand out one bit. Not one bit. All it is a bunch of decent to good footballers who are superbly coached within a system they are tuned in to and work well with each other in. That's the key. That's when football becomes easier. On paper we have Matic, Fred, Herrera, Pogba Periera and Fellaini. Take the best coached version of those players and they piss on what Spurs have. But well coached teams can out perform superior peers. See Bournemouth absolutely toying with us in the 1st a week or so ago. Or WH making a mockery of our midfield when they gave us a pasting.
Maybe. This is the key issue though isn’t it? We won’t get 4th because we’re too negative and don’t attempt to control matches unless we’re losing.
Jose needs to go and for this to happen, we need to finish 5th-6th. Wouldn’t mind avoiding Europa League altogether next season.
This is staggering.
Would you have taken Chelsea's squad over ours when they finished 11 points behind last season? They added one midfielder and so did we yet now they're miles ahead. Very clear to me one manager took the good players he had and decide to work and improve them whilst implenting a clear style of play and the other manager in his third year doesn't have a settled team and struggles to integrate new players into the team well because he doesn't have a clear style of play.
Chelsea had better players than us last season 100%. They downed tools on Conte, they were league champions 12 months before. They won it by a distance.
Can't disagree. I feel it's possible but given Mourinho's epic management this season we won't
I'll always want us to win every game and hence Mourinho to succeed as a byproduct. However, it's blatantly obvious that he's the wrong man for the job and struggling big time.
I think people underrate our squad a lot. We are not as good as City of course but I don't see how we have a worse squad than Chelsea, Liverpool or Spurs. It's just that we play so bad that every single player looks shite.
Hey, yeah you're kind of right there. I did make another (also dramatic) post about it later.
I’m torn on this whole debate. I completely accept that he’s not the right man for Utd from a footballing perspective but do I think another coach would do a better job within the same structure? I’m not so certain.
Until Utd work out a structure based around footballing decisions and development and understand what they want in a coach from a style perspective, I think any manager will struggle. We’re caught between wanting to compete immediately due to negative financial impact and a mess of a squad made up by 4 managers. We’re in that mess because we’ve let each manager make their own decisions on the playing squad - a model that no other top European club operates.
I bounce around on this debate everyday and can completely agree with points on both sides I.e sack him now or give him time. What I’m certain of is this wouldn’t have been accepted at any other top club - the manager would have been dismissed. The fact he wasn’t/hasn’t been dismissed is not down to some sense of tradition/trust on Utd’s behalf - it’s down to lack of thought/knowledge on what to do next.
Just like it’s difficult to quantify City’s great football without addressing the FFP shaped elephant in the room, it’s equally difficult to address Mourinho’s failures without looking at what’s going on above his head for the last 5 years.
Until Utd work out a structure based around footballing decisions and development and understand what they want in a coach from a style perspective, I think any manager will struggle. We’re caught between wanting to compete immediately due to negative financial impact and a mess of a squad made up by 4 managers. We’re in that mess because we’ve let each manager make their own decisions on the playing squad - a model that no other top European club operates.
I bounce around on this debate everyday and can completely agree with points on both sides I.e sack him now or give him time. What I’m certain of is this wouldn’t have been accepted at any other top club - the manager would have been dismissed. The fact he wasn’t/hasn’t been dismissed is not down to some sense of tradition/trust on Utd’s behalf - it’s down to lack of thought/knowledge on what to do next.
Just like it’s difficult to quantify City’s great football without addressing the FFP shaped elephant in the room, it’s equally difficult to address Mourinho’s failures without looking at what’s going on above his head for the last 5 years.
If Mourinho gets this shit squad in the top 4 come May, he should be given a knighthood never mind a new contract.
Oh my sweet summer child...
We could have had a deeper squad but how many squad players even get a minute in? How do you think Andreas will play if called in to do a job after months of sitting in the stands? Or Jones, Rojo, Bailly? Greenwood and Chong? Of all the managers in the league, Jose is the least likely to “manage the squad” and spread minutes to ensure that the “lesser” players are ready when called upon. He’s proved season after season across teams that he’d rather run his preferred 11 into the ground and into the treatment room even, before trusting the backup options.
It just shows exactly how quickly they've progressed, and how we've stood still/gone backwards.
Money is important but plenty have spent and gone nowhere. Coaching is more important.
Coaching is important yes, but I think more importantly, they have bought well and developed the right blend of players, especially in midfield and in defence. I mean the likes of Ederson, Walker, Laporte, De Bruyne, Sane, Bernardo, Mahrez - all good buys that play in the same way, comfortable with the ball, generally quick to move it, generally hardworking off it (Mahrez and Sane occasionally needing a kick from Fernandinho).
Our buying has been pretty crap in the last I don't know how many years and we have bought a mish-mash of players in terms of style.
Our buying has been pretty crap in the last I don't know how many years and we have bought a mish-mash of players in terms of style.
He is pretty much fully responsible for our signings as majority of them are flops. Our squad is not that bad. Of course there are areas where we can definitely improve like RB but just as you said it's not an excuse to be so negative in every single match. We are just miles behind every top team and it hurts. If anyone offered me 3-1 before the game against City, I would have probably taken it, I expected worse to be fair. The lineup was just screaming negativity, OK Pogba was injured fair enough but we have more midfielders in the team... Fred? Where the hell is Perreira? Why is Lingard anywhere near the first team? Why can City play 5-6 attacking players and barely ever concede a goal while we play so defensive and still concede goals for fun?
Once we attacked in the second half at Stamford Bridge they looked quite ordinary. It's a big underrating of our squad to suggest we can't compete with Chelsea.
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