Absolutely. We're doing exceptionally well to try and "compete" against the likes of City.
And here I thought Moyes was the master of lowering the fans' expectations.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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And here I thought Moyes was the master of lowering the fans' expectations.
We could play better but do you honestly think we're anywhere near the level of City?
Agree, the penalty was the time to get them under pressure and unfortunately nothing changed. We really could have done with having a game this weekend to put things right. Now all we will have is two weeks of how great City are and for our club to be pulled to pieces.
I might be wrong but we beat them earlier in the year so I don't think it's exactly out of the fcuking question...
I think that Mourinho should go, because...
I think that we can get (deserve) a lot better.
- Team plays poorly (there is not flow to the game, no real teamwork. It just doesn't work).
- We are lucky (the last couple of matches that we won, were nothing but lucky wins).
- Mourinho is too controversial (he always responds to any kind of provocation and just ends up immature).
- We are falling behind City (Mourinho was brought in to challenge City, but this hasn't happened, basically the opposite has happened).
- He spent big and we are worse (Mourinho has spent crazy money to get us in the 8th place of Premier League).
- His style doesn't suit United (United doesn't need and want a "defensive" manager).
- He doesn't "build" a squad (Mourinho has never build a squad and he isn't building one at United).
I think that we can get (deserve) a lot better.
Think only the most deluded think we are near City. We are light years behind and @Adisa knows we are not at their level, but should be showing better than we are.
It honestly astonishes me that we still have people defending and backing Mourinho.
8th place, negative goal difference, terrible results and even worse performances. Our best player this season is one he wanted to get rid of for fecking Willian, his signings have been useless. His list of failures is endless.
3rd season here and we're no better than when he arrived, and in some areas we're worse. How many times in the last 12 months have we played well for ninety minutes? I can't think of a single one.
We are either shite all game like yesterday or Juventus at home, or we have little 20 minute spells where we'll find some rhythm. That's it.
Mourinho has to go.
8th place, negative goal difference, terrible results and even worse performances. Our best player this season is one he wanted to get rid of for fecking Willian, his signings have been useless. His list of failures is endless.
3rd season here and we're no better than when he arrived, and in some areas we're worse. How many times in the last 12 months have we played well for ninety minutes? I can't think of a single one.
We are either shite all game like yesterday or Juventus at home, or we have little 20 minute spells where we'll find some rhythm. That's it.
Mourinho has to go.
Mourinho still plays young, smalling, matic, fellaini, how long has matic been shit? Since September 2017, but he plays him none the less. City don’t have their key midfielder but they still play to a title winning level, we are coached like a championship side, and I think that is insulting to a championship side who would outplay us, which has happened at old Trafford.
His obsession with tall players no matter how bad they are is a huge problem. He is a dinasaur which we have had the trilogy of terror of managers, the players he wanted is a huge concern. Jose fell out with martial, pogba and shaw and all three of them have saved his backside. We were bottom of the league on most ground covered last season, and I’m pretty sure we are bottom again.
His model of the kind of player he wants never is something to build on, he buys at 29 to 30, get the remaining blood out of the stone and repeat again, how much is it going to cost to replace matic? And we only got him summer 2017, and he’s already looking like he needs to move to the MLS.
His obsession with tall players no matter how bad they are is a huge problem. He is a dinasaur which we have had the trilogy of terror of managers, the players he wanted is a huge concern. Jose fell out with martial, pogba and shaw and all three of them have saved his backside. We were bottom of the league on most ground covered last season, and I’m pretty sure we are bottom again.
His model of the kind of player he wants never is something to build on, he buys at 29 to 30, get the remaining blood out of the stone and repeat again, how much is it going to cost to replace matic? And we only got him summer 2017, and he’s already looking like he needs to move to the MLS.
Yes we had Pogba playing and Sanchez when we beat them with Pogba scoring a brace, where was he yesterday? Comon man look at our bench yesterday FFS, off-form Lukaku, off-form/injured Sanchez, no Pogba... were you expecting us to hammer them at their own turf with their squad fully fit and available? Aguero/Mahrez/Sterling/Bernardo Silva/David Silva.. FFS and they brought on Sane! WTH
We could have got something off them yes if we have the self belief. I just think over the season we are too prone to slip up. City would just dust themselves down and go back to normal, we tend to fret about it and go into yet another slump. That is where a motivating manager comes in.
the better team lost in that game. Lucky win for us unfortunately. If people want to delude themselves into thinking we are close to them they can but it is dangerous...we are miles behind them now and all effort should be on investment, restructuring, whatever we need to compete with them.
We've got the manager who's not getting the best out of this group of players and couldn't solve defence in 3 years.
And there's the CEO who's not great at his job either, hiring random managers (one totally different than another), blocking his managers transfers and extending his contract at the same time.
Both issues should be solved immediately by the board.
And there's the CEO who's not great at his job either, hiring random managers (one totally different than another), blocking his managers transfers and extending his contract at the same time.
Both issues should be solved immediately by the board.
Yo mate, piece of advice. Never go to reddit reddevils.
I don't think we are at their level but I have seen lesser sides give City more of a game. Even even seen it on many occasions this season.
City made 44 uncontested passes before the third goal. A time we were supposed to be pushing for an equaliser. City had 87% possession in the 12 minutes before their first goal.
I will never be convinced that we don't have a squad to do better than that.
It astonishes me how low expectations have sunk now - someone I just spoke to said, "it's not apocalyptic". FFS! We're 8th, behind Bournemouth and Watford, with a negative GD and just barely above Everton and Leicester - who have better GDs. And this is "not apocalyptic"? We've outspent everyone bar City for years now and are playing like a "plucky underdog" against most. Comeback against Newcastle? Wow! That we even needed to do that is a pointer to what's wrong. Jose managed to ensure we had to play Pogba as a CB against a team battling relegation - having to come from 2-down to beat them.
I'm not going to dwell on games, but think about the style and the way we attack. We can barely string 5 passes together in the opposition half. Our players look like they're strangers and none can fight a press. Each team has, if not started pressing, at least learned how to cope with a press. Everyone barring us, that is. We still have first choice players (looking at Matic here) who need 4 touches before they can release the ball. We have forwards who don't press, can't press and don't move at all to create space.
The biggest indictment has to be how we pass out of the back. The moment the ball starts going towards DdG, everyone backs off into the opposition half and occupies a spot. Now, the punt comes in. The compactness and the predictability mean that it's easy to defend. Our (inexplicable for such a tall side) inability to head leads to possession being lost most times. Contrast with City. Players spread when Ederson collects and he has options to play short, medium or long. This makes the defending team spread as well and coupled with the movement of their players, makes it easier for him to pick a smart pass. It's not rocket science. It's so fecking visible.
Jose out...
I'm not going to dwell on games, but think about the style and the way we attack. We can barely string 5 passes together in the opposition half. Our players look like they're strangers and none can fight a press. Each team has, if not started pressing, at least learned how to cope with a press. Everyone barring us, that is. We still have first choice players (looking at Matic here) who need 4 touches before they can release the ball. We have forwards who don't press, can't press and don't move at all to create space.
The biggest indictment has to be how we pass out of the back. The moment the ball starts going towards DdG, everyone backs off into the opposition half and occupies a spot. Now, the punt comes in. The compactness and the predictability mean that it's easy to defend. Our (inexplicable for such a tall side) inability to head leads to possession being lost most times. Contrast with City. Players spread when Ederson collects and he has options to play short, medium or long. This makes the defending team spread as well and coupled with the movement of their players, makes it easier for him to pick a smart pass. It's not rocket science. It's so fecking visible.
Jose out...
Yeah, me and @Pogue Mahone have tended to clash and disagree on most things over the years but he's not a one-note poster like many.
Fair play my sometimes e-adversary. Faint praise I know!
Some are more offended I called him vile pig when in actual reality his tactics and the way he sets us is far more offensive. They forget that we're Machester United, his style is not acceptable for our club.
That's a good record and actually surprising.
I'm not upset we lost. I'm not stupid, we are not as good as City.
What we did yesterday was fail to compete. We went out there and let them play.
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The Rocky films I call a great kind of lesson to look At for evolving which our manager refuses to do, we are at levels Rocky 1 and 2, where we get our faces beaten to death to the point the towel needs throwing in, but we stay in our feet hoping the fighter runs out of steam so we can win, that’s always going to be found out. Rocky 3 still in that mind set, besting bums in the ring but rocky losing a manager who’s methods are are pretty outdated, creed comes along and retrains rocky to be more quickly on his feet, go for the attack and becomes all round better fighter.
Until we get a manager who understands the modern game we are going to be in this situation again and again like Rocky 1 and 2 where we get punched and punched in the face hoping we get some lucky breaks. Jose is like a doctor who refuses to to take exams again and again, keep up to speed with the modern ways, that’s called a relic. For any manager to stay relivent in the modern game, they must always be one step ahead of the game or be left behind. The game is quicker, faster, but jose’s Methods are 29 to 31 year olds like matic and fellaini who are lead boot football players, who are anything but modern footballer
Probably the best post I’ve seen since this defeat was a poster claiming that Mourinho never wanted Matic, he wanted Dier but Woody wouldn’t cough up the money so José had to settle for Matic 
That's Jose tactic though isn't it? Let the other team have the ball, they make a mistake and then hit them on the counter. Problem is that City do things with the ball and make very few mistakes. To me the only way to make mistakes happen is pressure them into them. We just stand off and watch them spray the ball about.
Thank you for this! I haven't had a laugh like this for months
Lol you're welcome
xYes.
He has some good wins however there is far too much inconsistency, against any half decent team we struggle, and the style of play is not there.
I'd take parking the bus every game if we won 8/10 games 1-0...but we aren't.
In his 3rd season, we're actually going backwards.
He has some good wins however there is far too much inconsistency, against any half decent team we struggle, and the style of play is not there.
I'd take parking the bus every game if we won 8/10 games 1-0...but we aren't.
In his 3rd season, we're actually going backwards.
I know many Madrid and Chelsea fans who started to support United as their 2nd club the day Mourinho was appointed as our manager; they fill no shame admitting they adore the man and will support him wherever he goes. We saw a similar thing this year with many Christiano's fans switching to Juventus as soon as the transfer was official.
I suspect we've some of those people here on Redcafe who are more Mourinho fans, even love him more than the club. It can happen to be a fan of a player or manager, but your love for a person should not stop you from seeing the truth about him.
At this point, defending Mourinho lays more from blind faith than rationality.
I’m sure he does that every game lol hell derby did it. Over 20 goals we have let in, we goal difference minus 1 and we are 8th in the league. When we get outplayed by championship sides, and he’s in his third season, times up. He’s like a doctor who refuses to stay modern, any manager who still has faith in young, smalling, fallaini and matic is asking for trouble. Just look at jose’s Kind of player he likes, tall, not very good on the ball, slow and is about 31 years old, now picture him allowed to have the keys to the castle and build a side in his vision, I be stunned if any player is under 28 years old. Imagine if he swapped martial for willian, the side would be even older
Remember that episode.
It is a scary prospect. Surely to god he realises his tactics, apart from the odd game, just aren't working?
He still plays young, matic, Fellaini, and smalling, tactics will be the same.Sevilla is a great window in looking into the fall of this idiot, still to this day how he was not sacked then I have no clue. He lost the dressing room last season, and he’s paying the price for the damage he caused. The players he bullied have kept him on life support, he celebrate fellaini contract signing, that shows everyone the football he wants to play
I agree. That Sevilla game and his attitude after it really annoyed me.
See, this is an old school approach to football management.
Statistics and data analytics is vital in football today IMO, especially when it comes to scouting and recruitment.
It can be used to identify players who suit a particular system and play in a certain style.
I am dubious of our scouting and player recruitment in general to be honest, it seems that we just go for the wrong players time after time.
I know Jose is referring to match statistics in that press conference, but my point still applies as he seems to be undermining the important of statistics in football.
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Lol you're welcome
I needed that! Dunno why that particular combination of words made me laugh so much tho
You see, I think a-lot of talk about our form being good has been blown massively out of proportion. I'm going to be honest and say that I haven't been overly impressed by any of our games really bar the second half against Chelsea when we were pretty bloody fantastic. Apart from that, it's all been a-bit meh, though the win at Bournemouth - though we were hopeless most of the first half - was a good result as they can be tough to beat at home. I mean let's be brutally honest and call the Juve win what it was, amazing luck.
Yeah Matic is done. I don't think it's a case of him not being on form, more he's looked absolutely hopeless bar his first two months here. I genuinely have no idea why Mourinho is persisting with him. Lukaku is woefully short of confidence and only goals can help him there. I actually thought he might have taken the peno yesterday.
The problem is, while we might need more quality to compete for the title, we have enough quality to be doing significantly better than we are. That blame falls at the managers door. Mourinho is not getting the best out of what he has at his disposal and his tactics, in general, breathe negativity. I think it's gone too far for him and I zero confidence that we will achieve anything significant with him at the helm. As much as I wanted him, I have no issue admitting that I was wrong and he's not the right man for the job.
Crikey. Even Big Sam likes his stats and data.
There was talk of that, Pochettino mentioned it in his book. However I'm not sure that wanting to spend £60m on Eric Fecking Dier is much of a defence for Mourinho's judgement and he knew exactly what he was getting with Matic so even if he was second choice, surely he could have thought of someone better.Probably the best post I’ve seen since this defeat was a poster claiming that Mourinho never wanted Matic, he wanted Dier but Woody wouldn’t cough up the money so José had to settle for Matic
It's the fact that we cannot play a whole game in top gear. It seems to be spells of good play. Why is that? Are they not fit enough?
I believe David Moyes genuinely used Football Manager stats during his time at Everton to scout players.
Some teams have employed several highly qualified data scientists, which is an approach I think United should take too.
However in my opinion, without a Director of Football, this is all a bit of a moot point really.
We need someone in place to ensure we are targeting the right type of players that fit our system and desired playing style (whatever that may be), not just the big name players.
To me we are lazy with some of our signings. City want someone, let's sign him so they don't, Sanchez and Fred. Supposedly couldn't get Dier, I'll have Matic, I know him. Funny how Chelsea let him go, but hung onto Willian, who despite his age would have been much more useful to us.I believe David Moyes genuinely used Football Manager stats during his time at Everton to scout players.
Some teams have employed several highly qualified data scientists, which is an approach I think United should take too.
However in my opinion, without a Director of Football, this is all a bit of a moot point really.
We need someone in place to ensure we are targeting the right type of players that fit our system and desired playing style (whatever that may be), not just the big name players.
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