Agreed.
I don't for one second believe that there are not several footballers out there who could do the same job as effectively (or better) for us than the likes of Dier, Matic, Willian etc.
They would also be a lot cheaper too.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Agreed.
I don't for one second believe that there are not several footballers out there who could do the same job as effectively (or better) for us than the likes of Dier, Matic, Willian etc.
They would also be a lot cheaper too.
Is the Pulisization complete?
Not really, because even his teams were effective.
I make it 6 points off. We lost both games and conceded 3 goals in each.
I still can't really see how Jose wants us to play. He's seemingly been conflicted between two styles of play with us since he's arrived and in the end we've not managed to do either. The team has shown heart at times, but being plucky underdogs is something I'd expect from teams who have been built on tiny budgets with much less successful managers.
We have gone back. He used to win games boring everyone else to death and defending but it seems now to me that it was Zlatan who made things happen. We played well when he was here but the moment he left, we started our downward spiral. Yes last year we were second but I really do not know how we ended up second. Our football has been pathetic most of the times. We get played off the park by everyone though we win some games in a comedy of errors.
Yes someone mentioned Newcastle but they were bottom of the PL and we struggled to beat them. I cannot think of any match where we have not struggled this season. The players seems to have forgotten how to play football. They cannot keep possession or even pass to another team mate. They do not have any movements off the ball.
Carlos Quiroz could not have been any worse as for sure he is much more methodical than Jose and he will get them will drilled into trying to play football at least.
Yes someone mentioned Newcastle but they were bottom of the PL and we struggled to beat them. I cannot think of any match where we have not struggled this season. The players seems to have forgotten how to play football. They cannot keep possession or even pass to another team mate. They do not have any movements off the ball.
Carlos Quiroz could not have been any worse as for sure he is much more methodical than Jose and he will get them will drilled into trying to play football at least.
Damn.
It's what plenty on here now deem acceptable. Oh how standards have fallen. Remember we had a thread about the first half against Spurs? Yes, this was a home match where we were battered.
I was raging - I missed the first 30 minutes of that match, so I thought I was living in another dimension reading about our great play.
I'd like us to go into games against 99% of teams and play our own way and have the opposition have to change to play us, that'll never happen under Jose. All comes back to having a style, a game plan, a set identity. We're still waiting.
I am starting to hate him now the way I hated Moyes when he was destroying this club.
Of course he now has two weeks to make sure we all know that none of it is his fault. Poor old Jose.
I believe David Moyes genuinely used Football Manager stats during his time at Everton to scout players.
Some teams have employed several highly qualified data scientists, which is an approach I think United should take too.
However in my opinion, without a Director of Football, this is all a bit of a moot point really.
We need someone in place to ensure we are targeting the right type of players that fit our system and desired playing style (whatever that may be), not just the big name players.
A couple of weeks ago United were advertising for a data analyst to work in their player recruitment department alongside the scouts
The job description was basically what you’re talking about
Right now, it’s hard to see what Mourinho has got right. Transfers have been bad, he’s struggled with his team selections, individuals are under performing throughout the team, the style of play is underwhelming and in the third season, where we should be expecting the finished product, we’re struggling to make top 4. Pretty damning charge sheet when you look at it.
It's worrying times as a United fan. Looking at the players faces weren't good. De Gea looks sick of it, Martial looks the ways he always looks with Jose, Pogba wants to go back to Juventus or at least wants out of here and Herrera is pretty much not signing his contract. So much money spent and it feels like it's all for nothing. It's very clear needs the 10th overhaul in 5 years. As long as Smalling, Jones, Valencia and Young, matic are here. The club will never move forward even more. The only way I can see this from happening is getting rid of Jose.
I Was Jose in for a long time. But this season he's shown what he is and it's not good for Manchester United. SAF won the league with a much less better squad with the same defenders. Out-defending the opposition does not mean you win, out-scoring them does. SAF never set us up to try and get a draw(As far as I can remember).
I Was Jose in for a long time. But this season he's shown what he is and it's not good for Manchester United. SAF won the league with a much less better squad with the same defenders. Out-defending the opposition does not mean you win, out-scoring them does. SAF never set us up to try and get a draw(As far as I can remember).
Honestly, I'm not sure if I can motivate myself to watch another United match until Mourinho's booted out of our club, regardless if we go on a winning streak or not. He has completely sucked the joy out of watching United and football in general. And on top of that he's consistently being a complete w*nker that not only embarrass the club on the pitch but also off it.
When the announcement of his sacking does arrive I will be way more relieved than I was with both Moyes and LvG.
When the announcement of his sacking does arrive I will be way more relieved than I was with both Moyes and LvG.
I am now thinking it’s time for action, either a clear out of what we laughingly call our defence or the coaching staff and manager. His excuses are embarrassing, we are away at Arsenal the week before the Derby game at OT so will we lose? One shot on target yesterday and Jose thinks we were in the game for 80 minutes.
Same old story though, if he goes who the hell will want to come? Poisoned chalice scenario.
Same old story though, if he goes who the hell will want to come? Poisoned chalice scenario.
Then a pretty nice run of fixtures, so it'll be back to "give him time!!!!!" again. Rinse and repeat.
There's enough shite things we know for sure without resorting to this sort of crap to be honest.
This result doesn't really change things regarding Mourinho. It'll be a different story though if we go on to string some bad results together after this.
Oh really?
Fair enough, this is the type of job I want for myself in a few years actually.
At least it looks like we are making some headway in that department then.
I just hope it will lead to us making better signings, because it's not been great in the past few years.
I was in the give him time side, then changed to sack him. I have not changed my vote from the latter. Although the first option was more about the options for replacing him rather than me thinking he was the long term manager for us.
So they are bringing in a Data Analyst even though Jose doesn't like data and stats. Maybe they are thinking of managers who do like that stuff.
I’ll take faint praise where I can get it, thanks!
I want him gone, but I know he's not going till we're mathematically out of the top 4 race. We've seen all this shite so often from Jose now, we have a pretty good idea how the rest of the season will pan out. Plenty of dropped points in games we should win, some good performances against the better teams, and the occasional comfortable win. Just standard Jose at Utd stuff.
Despite Jose winning the two trophies in year one our league form has been terrible even after finishing second last season. Apologies for going all Statto from Fantasy Football League but....
We have already lost 16 out of 88 league games, drawing 23 and winning 49.
We have scored a whopping 142 = 1.6 goals a game and conceded 78 = 0.89 per game.
Finished 7th, 2nd and currently 8th.
Compare that with the other so called top 6 clubs;
Pep, P88 W65 D15 L8 Scored 222 Conceded 71 GD+151
Klopp, P88 W52 D25 L11 Scored 185 Conceded 85 GD+100
Poch, P88 W58 D16 L14 Scored 180 Conceded 72 GD+108
Chelsea, P88 W59 D14 L15 Scored 174 Conceded 79 GD+95
Arsenal, P88 W49 D15 L24 Scored 177 Conceded 110 GD+64
We have only won the same amount of games as Arsenal (who we often mock) in this period and despite them conceding 32 more and losing 8 more games the goal difference is the same at only +64. We are truly woeful at scoring/creating, never mind all the running/passing and possession stats being banded about showing how low we are on those tables also.
Jose keeps hiding behind the fact he needed another defender but it is obvious that his style of play and tactics and not the level of player quality that is our biggest downfall. We are clearly the fifth or sixth best team in the league. However we are not improving whilst the other 5 are or just staying at a consistent level. I have no doubt in my mind each of the other managers of these clubs would do no worse than Jose with our current squad, I actually think they would all do better with their style of play.
City are just ridiculously better than the rest, this isn't going to change anytime soon. Squad wise United's squad is no worse than the other four, probably no better either but certainly no worse man for man. I hope the club do not back Jose in the January window and come the summer he is sacked and we hire well and fund that new manager to the required sums necessary to make us relevant again. One thing though I will take anyone of Jose next season.
We have already lost 16 out of 88 league games, drawing 23 and winning 49.
We have scored a whopping 142 = 1.6 goals a game and conceded 78 = 0.89 per game.
Finished 7th, 2nd and currently 8th.
Compare that with the other so called top 6 clubs;
Pep, P88 W65 D15 L8 Scored 222 Conceded 71 GD+151
Klopp, P88 W52 D25 L11 Scored 185 Conceded 85 GD+100
Poch, P88 W58 D16 L14 Scored 180 Conceded 72 GD+108
Chelsea, P88 W59 D14 L15 Scored 174 Conceded 79 GD+95
Arsenal, P88 W49 D15 L24 Scored 177 Conceded 110 GD+64
We have only won the same amount of games as Arsenal (who we often mock) in this period and despite them conceding 32 more and losing 8 more games the goal difference is the same at only +64. We are truly woeful at scoring/creating, never mind all the running/passing and possession stats being banded about showing how low we are on those tables also.
Jose keeps hiding behind the fact he needed another defender but it is obvious that his style of play and tactics and not the level of player quality that is our biggest downfall. We are clearly the fifth or sixth best team in the league. However we are not improving whilst the other 5 are or just staying at a consistent level. I have no doubt in my mind each of the other managers of these clubs would do no worse than Jose with our current squad, I actually think they would all do better with their style of play.
City are just ridiculously better than the rest, this isn't going to change anytime soon. Squad wise United's squad is no worse than the other four, probably no better either but certainly no worse man for man. I hope the club do not back Jose in the January window and come the summer he is sacked and we hire well and fund that new manager to the required sums necessary to make us relevant again. One thing though I will take anyone of Jose next season.
Exactly. Win, lose or draw, I just want us to have our own identity and style of play.
I’m sick to death of this cowardly approach from Mourinho.
Looks like we are stuck with him this season though
-1 goal difference after 12 games. Enough said.
We've got Palace at home and Southampton away next, then Arsenal at home.
Fulham at home then Liverpool away.
Arsenal at home will interesting with their new manager. Like Spurs they will probably fancy a win this year. I don't see us containing their strikers if they go for it.
Fulham at home then Liverpool away.
Arsenal at home will interesting with their new manager. Like Spurs they will probably fancy a win this year. I don't see us containing their strikers if they go for it.
Kind of ironic that you are urging people to think more deeply, when you completely fail to acknowledge the underlying issues, which won't be solved by just changing managers.*shakes head* I can't. I can't. I just can't. How do you people make decisions in real life
For those of you who still can't decide whether Mourinho is the one for this club or not. For those of you who are in that 5-10% who keep changing their votes in this thread in the last month or so. For those of you for whom achieving a fluky victory over an unremarkable (on the night) Juventus means Mourinho should stay and then losing 3-1 to this frankly excellent City team means Mourinho should go. I just can't. I have no hope for those of you at all. We're all fans here. We're not the old drunk guy at the pub who says he supports Man Utd but can't name 5 current players. And we're not the 21 year old girl who's trying to act cool and says she is a fan of the club but has actually never watched a single full game in her life. Most of us here have watched pretty much every game since Mourinho took charge. We've watched or read pretty much every press conference or important statement that he's given. We've sat around reading other people's takes on his actions, words, tactics, philosophy, mood, everything. FOR. MORE. THAN. TWO. YEARS.
But yeah. The next 5 games will FINALLY tell you what you need to know...
I hope to GOD that those of you who make statements like that are just like that when it comes to football matters. I certainly hope you think a little bit more deeply when it comes to things in your actual life. If not, then please consider thinking a bit more. Wonderful things may happen.
There is nothing left to say. He turned things around from the brink of departure the weekend of the Newcastle game, the players are with him and he is here for the rest of the season. His task is to reach top 4 and then leave.
Pretty much this yes.
I think he's now here until the Summer and then a new manager will be put in charge - whatever our league position this season.
I just don't know what his plan is.
Yesterday we had:
One full back who loves to play long balls to a holding player that isn't there, and is so poor defensively he requires excellent awareness from his CB to cover him.
One centre back who prefers to sit deep because he lacks that awareness, and isnt comfortable on the ball high up the pitch.
One centre back who is terrible defending deep and prefers playing higher up the pitch.
One midfielder who is energetic, quick and technical who likes playing lots of quick passes.
One midfielder who is big, strong and likes to hold the ball and take it through midfield.
One midfielder who is also big, strong and less technical, but is instructed to stay further up the pitch.
Three forwards who are quick and make good runs, but nobody behind them to actually play the passes to them.
You could go on...
How does Mourinho expect us to play like a team when he is putting these mismatches all over the pitch.
Yesterday we had:
One full back who loves to play long balls to a holding player that isn't there, and is so poor defensively he requires excellent awareness from his CB to cover him.
One centre back who prefers to sit deep because he lacks that awareness, and isnt comfortable on the ball high up the pitch.
One centre back who is terrible defending deep and prefers playing higher up the pitch.
One midfielder who is energetic, quick and technical who likes playing lots of quick passes.
One midfielder who is big, strong and likes to hold the ball and take it through midfield.
One midfielder who is also big, strong and less technical, but is instructed to stay further up the pitch.
Three forwards who are quick and make good runs, but nobody behind them to actually play the passes to them.
You could go on...
How does Mourinho expect us to play like a team when he is putting these mismatches all over the pitch.
I very much doubt it. A string of poor results come February/March and he's out.
We don't know this and that's my biggest fear. Ed Woodward is clueless enough to decide his fate solely on top four.
If we get top four I very much believe he'll stay for another season. I don't trust Woodward to make the right decision.
I think it'll be like Conte last season. Where everyone expects him to be sacked after every poor result but the board will delay until the end of the season. I think this season's league campaign is already a write-off so the cups are a good shot at redemption but ultimately he's not worth the baggage.
It’s what you’d expect from a newly promoted team.
I’m sure the Mourinho supporters will find a way to absolve him of blame though.
It will take a monumental collapse of results for him to be sacked mid-season. Had he lost to Chelsea and Juve, I’d expect pressure would have been at fever pitch - but he didn’t.
He’ll limp on until end of season - deep down, we all know it.
He’ll limp on until end of season - deep down, we all know it.
I think he'll end up fluking a 3rd place finish behind City and Liverpool and move on to Madrid in the summer, calling it a success.
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