The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[blue blue]

The recent run of results has probably made a good proportion of all football fans re-think their view on Jose's position.

At the moment it's just a re-think.

As an outsider, and a biased one at that, my instincts still tell me this Leopard won't change his spots and he will never play expansive football. This negative style will always be a concern to some Utd fans, Jose will continue to be controversial and the board's relationship with him will only ever be one of convenience.

As for the now? Utd might continue this run. They might even get into the top four. Can they win the Premier league? Not so sure there, probably not. So on the balance of probabilities the best Utd can achieve would be top 4 this season. And probably lower than second. I think this would be seen as a failure by many fans and the board.

It's all ifs and buts at the moment and this weekends game will really shape the season.

Come on the Reds!

 

[klsv]

Saying LVG got sacked for less is the stupidest thing I keep seeing here. If Mourinho fails to get us into CL next year, he will go, I'm sure there's a clause about it in his contract too. But being 7th in November is as big as an argument to go by as the alphabetical order of the table before the first gameweek. It tells you nothing about us being in the CL next season. He was always going to get a chance until the top four was in reach, regardless of results against Juve and City away and regardless of this poll here. Some proper act as if reaching 85% here will get Jose sacked and therefore those voting for other options should be treated as traitors. There's more fans going to our away matches than the "yes" vote has here, stop taking it so seriously.

 

[redmanc]

I just changed my vote to no. I think hes finally sorted his head out. Not getting his own way in summer really messed him up by the looks of it and i think the signs are there over the last couple of weeks to suggest hes making peace with it and cracking on. You can also see this with making some bold decisions with the omission of a few players from squads in recent weeks and some of his post match interviews.

 

[Davs]

Saying LVG got sacked for less is the stupidest thing I keep seeing here. If Mourinho fails to get us into CL next year, he will go, I'm sure there's a clause about it in his contract too. But being 7th in November is as big as an argument to go by as the alphabetical order of the table before the first gameweek. It tells you nothing about us being in the CL next season. He was always going to get a chance until the top four was in reach, regardless of results against Juve and City away and regardless of this poll here. Some proper act as if reaching 85% here will get Jose sacked and therefore those voting for other options should be treated as traitors. There's more fans going to our away matches than the "yes" vote has here, stop taking it so seriously.

To be honest, you're probably right. Given last season we finished 2nd best only to City, then this season it is looking like we will finish further down the league is very likely to be classed as a failure to the majority of us here. However if the positive performances continue and the results keep rolling in then I still think Mourinho could bring us the league title next season.

 

[Siorac]

This false dichotomy really is a waste of time. United under Fergie used to grind out narrow wins and batter teams on a regular basis. There’s no reason we shouldn’t expect both these things to be happening regularly.

The rewriting of history is amazing. Because St. Mourinho is right in everything, his fans now need to convince us that under Fergie we were all about grinding out last minute wins and we never battered teams. It's absolutely staggering, really. Reality doesn't matter, nothing matters except that Mourinho is God.

 

[the chameleon]

It's not that people dont want to see him succeed, its the belief that he wont succeed. Pretty much everyone wants to see us back to where we were during our glory years, some of us feel like the evidence points to him not being the man to take us there.

I've seen the square root of feck all to suggest he'll do so hence I'd like us to find someone that will show more signs that he could/can. Not someone making ridiculous excuses as to why we aren't further ahead in our progress.

We have yet, during his reign, to put in anything that resembles a string of consistent performances. We dish out middle of the road performance, after middle of the road performance and have the audacity to act surprised when we get middle of the road results.

Great teams, which we're going to need to be to win anything substantial especially in this era dish out consistently great performances week in week out. Even when they dont get the results, they pretty much play well. We are far from that, too far imo for the investment we've put in.

Take Juve for example, who are obviously a great team. They wont mind losing a match like last night cause common sense tells you if they play like that most of the time against big sides, they are going to win most of the matches. City pretty much out perform every side they run into even in matches they sometimes don't win. Barca drew vs Inter, again they'll win most of the time playing like that. Us? now way its possible to collect enough results to win any of the two big trophies with these sort of performances.

We know this because we used to have title winning teams.

This! Thank you sir! You have elaborated exactly what I’m thinking!

Some posters don’t get this and are happy to paper over cracks

 

[the chameleon]

It's not that people dont want to see him succeed, its the belief that he wont succeed. Pretty much everyone wants to see us back to where we were during our glory years, some of us feel like the evidence points to him not being the man to take us there.

I've seen the square root of feck all to suggest he'll do so hence I'd like us to find someone that will show more signs that he could/can. Not someone making ridiculous excuses as to why we aren't further ahead in our progress.

We have yet, during his reign, to put in anything that resembles a string of consistent performances. We dish out middle of the road performance, after middle of the road performance and have the audacity to act surprised when we get middle of the road results.

Great teams, which we're going to need to be to win anything substantial especially in this era dish out consistently great performances week in week out. Even when they dont get the results, they pretty much play well. We are far from that, too far imo for the investment we've put in.

Take Juve for example, who are obviously a great team. They wont mind losing a match like last night cause common sense tells you if they play like that most of the time against big sides, they are going to win most of the matches. City pretty much out perform every side they run into even in matches they sometimes don't win. Barca drew vs Inter, again they'll win most of the time playing like that. Us? now way its possible to collect enough results to win any of the two big trophies with these sort of performances.

We know this because we used to have title winning teams.

This! Thank you sir! You have elaborated exactly what I’m thinking!

Some posters don’t get this and are happy to paper over cracks

 

[Janson]

I changed my vote to option 3.

“I think I’ll stop watching the live games until he’s gone”

“He’s just never going to change”

I’ll take full ownership of those quotes and felt like they were justified at the time. I was just getting no enjoyment from watching our team play and it felt like mental torture at times.

Jose has 100% adapted his style and loosened up on some things which seems to have improved the atmosphere around the club. Players seem to be playing for him and more importantly respecting his position and Jose has compensated for this by at the very least, setting up in a way that provides some entertaining football. The whole going behind before really getting started thing is concerning but the recent results speak for themselves.

Don’t know exactly what the changes are but it seems it’s Jose who’s made them and I’m firmly back in the get behind the manager camp. I’ve enjoyed being a united fan this past 3 weeks, and that’s all I care about.

To stop watching your own club's games can't be justified.

You guys who think it's mental torture to watch us play. I wonder how you'd have fared if you were a supporter of a truly shite club.

 

[Janson]

Don't hold your breath on that one.
They are still waiting, fingers and thumbs primed and ready to attack him and everything he and his players do next time we draw or get beaten.

Let's wait and see what happens after the City game. You can be sure that some of them are dying for United (their club) to loose.

Of course, that has been pretty obvious for a while.

 

[JK-27]

I'll back the manager until he goes. It's that simple.

It's weird hearing people say they're back to liking him, I guarantee a bad result against City will turn that round instantly. I don't like flip-flop supporters where support changes on a game by game basis.

 

[Canagel]

To stop watching your own club's games can't be justified.

You guys who think it's mental torture to watch us play. I wonder how you'd have fared if you were a supporter of a truly shite club.

If you're bored then of course yes. I stopped watching games under LVG and I didn't watch some games last season either.
People watch football to be entertained. Otherwise why sit and watch the games. You could just check the result at the end. And the demand is much higher when you've assembled one of the most expensive squads in history.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It proves your point wrong.. don't change the goalposts.

”Change the goalposts”, come on @Stactix, has Mourinho ever been in a role long term? You said it yourself, his longest role ever is 3 seasons and 1 month.

How then, can anyone with confidence claim the bolded... ”you don't give Mourinho time, he delivers success instantly and leaves.. that isn't something that's going to change.”

It’s never been tried, so how do we know? In just 10.5 months from now (if that somehow makes any difference to my original post about him ever being tested long term), this will be his longest ever serving role if he’s still here, and it’ll still be only 3 seasons and a smitch.

 

[WensleyMU]

If you're bored then of course yes. I stopped watching games under LVG and I didn't watch some games last season either.
People watch football to be entertained. Otherwise why sit and watch the games. You could just check the result at the end. And the demand is much higher when you've assembled one of the most expensive squads in history.

People watch films to be entertained, they support a club and watch them on that basis.

Otherwise, only a handful of clubs at anyone time would have anyone watching them.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Have to admit, I've recently started to enjoy watching us play again. He's picking the right line-ups and we're actually playing football. The comebacks have been spectacular! Though we need to going up the gears from the off and be the team with the initiative.It's still very early days to tell whether he can turn things around and a lot of it will hinge on how he uses the likes of Lukaku, Alexis and Fellaini as the season progresses. But if he sticks to the way he's going about things right now, this season may yet have life in it.

Trying not to get my hopes up

Edit: As it stands I still want Mourinho gone, but it's the success of United that I care about most so would be over the moon if we were to start kicking on with him still at the helm. Better late than never as it goes.

 

[ZenMaster Coltrane]

Are United producing 90 minute displays? No. They haven't produced one in Mourinho's entire tenure.
Are they creating enough clear-cut chances, specifically in the penalty area? No.
Are they defensively sound? No.
Are they better than last year? No.
Are players being coached up or made to look better by a system of play? No.
Are they 1,2 players away from being an unstoppable machine? No.
Are they closer to winning the PL or CL? No.


Is Mourinho a builder? No.
Is Mourinho a unifier? No.
Is Woodward a football man? No.
Is the club setup helping to recruit the best players? No.
Will Mourinho work with a DOF? No.
Is Mourinho the future? No.

Is all this clearly visible? Yes.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Are United producing 90 minute displays? No. They haven't produced one in Mourinho's entire tenure.
Are they creating enough clear-cut chances, specifically in the penalty area? No.
Are they defensively sound? No.
Are they better than last year? No.
Are players being coached up or made to look better by a system of play? No.
Are they 1,2 players away from being an unstoppable machine? No.
Are they closer to winning the PL or CL? No.


Is Mourinho a builder? No.
Is Mourinho a unifier? No.
Is Woodward a football man? No.
Is the club setup helping to recruit the best players? No.
Will Mourinho work with a DOF? No.
Is Mourinho the future? No.

Is all this clearly visible? Yes.

That is one seriously obnoxious post.

 

[Shark]

That is one seriously obnoxious post.

What do you expect from a newb posting in the mains?

 

[Robbie Boy]

That is one seriously obnoxious post, I thought @Robbie Boy was telling us only the Mourinho in brigade acted that way.

Nope, I clearly insinuated that both 'act that way', however the '*Mourinho in' crowd love to sit on their pedestals and tell everyone else how wrong they are and are oblivious to the fact that they act the same way, only in reverse.

*I have to be clear here, there are some very good posters that want him to stay and can put their points across in a constructive, articulate manner. However, there are 4, maybe 5, that are beyond condescending and love to tell others that they are in the wrong, all while acting the exact same way themselves. Here's two prime examples:
1) A 'Mourinho out' poster labels someone a 'fanboy'. That poster that gets on their moral high horse and preaches about how immature that expression is. The next day, that poster goes and labels people 'haters' that disagree with their opinion.
2) A 'Mourinho out' poster comes into this thread after a defeat saying he has to go etc etc. A 'Mourinho in' poster will invariably come in after a few minutes and call said poster agenda driven, sad etc. A week later we beat someone, like let's say Juve, and the 'Mourinho in' crowd will enter this thread in their droves act like condescending pricks and tell everyone they are wrong.

I mean, go figure. I genuinely don't think some of the staunch 'in crowd' (again, there's only 4 or 5 that fall under this umbrella) see how they come across as absolute hypocrites, all the while they play their 'holier than though' cards. This thread will be swings-and-roundabouts until we either massively improve or he goes. So week-on-week we will go around in circles depending on results. Some weeks the 'in crowd' will feel vindicated and others the 'out crowd' will feel vindicated. I personally don't think anyone is wrong per-se and everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the matter. I have formed my opinion and am open to change, but only when we improve far vaster than we have. At the end of the day, I wanted him here but he hasn't nearly performed as I expected. There's huge hyperbole from both sides so that's expected: I mean some made out scraping a win against a shite Newcastle side at home was some huge achievement conversely, some made out losing at home to Juve was the end of the world.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Good post that Robbie!

 

[sunama]

If we beat City at the weekend I hope he gets a contract extension.

The meltdown in this thread would be epic.
A lot of people on this forum make this place toxic. A contract renewal would bring toxicity levels to hiter to, unseen levels.

 

[sunama]

1) A 'Mourinho out' poster labels someone a 'fanboy'. That poster that gets on their moral high horse and preaches about how immature that expression is. The next day, that poster goes and labels people 'haters' that disagree with their opinion.
2) A 'Mourinho out' poster comes into this thread after a defeat saying he has to go etc etc. A 'Mourinho in' poster will invariably come in after a few minutes and call said poster agenda driven, sad etc. A week later we beat someone, like let's say Juve, and the 'Mourinho in' crowd will enter this thread in their droves act like condescending pricks and tell everyone they are wrong.

One thing which may or may not have been mentioned is that Jose (in/out) has split the fanbase. I've not seen anything like this before.
When Moyes was fired, it was almost unanimous that he had to go.
Same with LVG.
But what it is about Jose, which is causing this "civil war" amongst MUFC fans?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Are United producing 90 minute displays? No. They haven't produced one in Mourinho's entire tenure.
Are they creating enough clear-cut chances, specifically in the penalty area? No.
Are they defensively sound? No.
Are they better than last year? No.
Are players being coached up or made to look better by a system of play? No.
Are they 1,2 players away from being an unstoppable machine? No.
Are they closer to winning the PL or CL? No.


Is Mourinho a builder? No.
Is Mourinho a unifier? No.
Is Woodward a football man? No.
Is the club setup helping to recruit the best players? No.
Will Mourinho work with a DOF? No.
Is Mourinho the future? No.

Is all this clearly visible? Yes.

So...any positives?

 

[Greck]

The meltdown in this thread would be epic.
A lot of people on this forum make this place toxic. A contract renewal would bring toxicity levels to hiter to, unseen levels.

Would take a similar bet if the condition also meant he'd get sacked if we lost. For all the good form we've enjoyed, a loss on Sunday could take us back to where we were before the good form started ie 7 points out of top 4.

 

[zenith]

Leaving the temperament aside, football tactics too seem to have moved past mourinho. His low block defending and dependence on counter attacks and individual brilliance while attacking seems out of date and out of place, quite similar to lvg. What made SAF great was his ability to change with the time, he very well adapted to different styles of football to keep the team winning. With Jose I don't see that.

Even now when we are winning there does not seem any tactical genius behind it. Lukaku will be back starting as soon as he's fit, fellani will begin to start games again playing style notwithstanding and he'll revert to type.

I hope he gets top four for us this year and then we can look for a different manager, who are perhaps more tuned in the concept of winning with lesser pragmatism.

 

[rpg]

I guess it mainly boils down to our own personal expectations towards the club. Like those who wants United to win the title one more time in near future would select option one. However some who are happy with CL qualification and churning Rashfords like academy kids every now and then would select other options.

Whatever the result if Juventus doesn't hit so many cross bars and we receive a thonking or like how we beat them, i still dont see how we are going to win the league with Mourinho in next 3 years.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

One thing which may or may not have been mentioned is that Jose (in/out) has split the fanbase. I've not seen anything like this before.
When Moyes was fired, it was almost unanimous that he had to go.
Same with LVG.
But what it is about Jose, which is causing this "civil war" amongst MUFC fans?

Simple... LVG and Moyes failed with poor football. So far, Mourinho hasn't "failed", if we finish the season outside of the top 4 though, I don't think the fanbase would be so split at all.

 

[rpg]

One thing which may or may not have been mentioned is that Jose (in/out) has split the fanbase. I've not seen anything like this before.
When Moyes was fired, it was almost unanimous that he had to go.
Same with LVG.
But what it is about Jose, which is causing this "civil war" amongst MUFC fans?

Mourinho will go sooner or later, same as the case with the Proven Lvg. Lvg supporters were pulling up possession statistics back then.
When more than half of fans turning against the manager it is the beginning of the end. Just need some time to tire out the hardcore supporters and the board.

 

[Robbie Boy]

One thing which may or may not have been mentioned is that Jose (in/out) has split the fanbase. I've not seen anything like this before.
When Moyes was fired, it was almost unanimous that he had to go.
Same with LVG.
But what it is about Jose, which is causing this "civil war" amongst MUFC fans?

Yep, it definitely has split the fan base to a crazy extent. I think the weirdest part is how certain posters will affiliate themselves with certain players based on whether they want Mourinho to stay or go. It's seeping into so many threads, even the thread about his antics after the Juve game has both camps in there arguing amongst each other.

I think it was unanimous that everyone wanted Moyes to go but LvG still has a small cult following on here.

 

[Stactix]

”Change the goalposts”, come on @Stactix, has Mourinho ever been in a role long term? You said it yourself, his longest role ever is 3 seasons and 1 month.

How then, can anyone with confidence claim the bolded... ”you don't give Mourinho time, he delivers success instantly and leaves.. that isn't something that's going to change.”

It’s never been tried, so how do we know? In just 10.5 months from now (if that somehow makes any difference to my original post about him ever being tested long term), this will be his longest ever serving role if he’s still here, and it’ll still be only 3 seasons and a smitch.

And there is a very good reason why it hasn't happened, should Chelsea of kept him when he had them at 16th?
He's been a manager for 18 years and as you say he's never managed longer than 3 years, 1month. So where is the evidence that's suddenly going to change here? When before the Newcastle game it was Uniteds worst start in the premier league era and they had the easiest start out of the top 6.

3 years on, doesn't know best line up. Most of his signings are underperforming.. and the leagues very likely to be out of reach already.
The team did need new signings to challenge but the team is certainly not as bad as made out by many Jose backers.

And for the record, I did buy into that BS when he first started that he'd calm down and put the club first and build a dominant dynasty.
I was wrong on all accounts.

He deserves to finish the season after this run of games but nothing more, Utd are the new Arsenal, he now has plenty of time to get these players playing better and more organised. I just don't see it happening.

 

[el3mel]

Are United producing 90 minute displays? No. They haven't produced one in Mourinho's entire tenure.
Are they creating enough clear-cut chances, specifically in the penalty area? No.
Are they defensively sound? No.
Are they better than last year? No.
Are players being coached up or made to look better by a system of play? No.
Are they 1,2 players away from being an unstoppable machine? No.
Are they closer to winning the PL or CL? No.


Is Mourinho a builder? No.
Is Mourinho a unifier? No.
Is Woodward a football man? No.
Is the club setup helping to recruit the best players? No.
Will Mourinho work with a DOF? No.
Is Mourinho the future? No.

Is all this clearly visible? Yes.

Think we shoupd close the club after this post.

 

[Still ill]

One thing which may or may not have been mentioned is that Jose (in/out) has split the fanbase. I've not seen anything like this before.
When Moyes was fired, it was almost unanimous that he had to go.
Same with LVG.
But what it is about Jose, which is causing this "civil war" amongst MUFC fans?

2 seasons of tangible progress. Everything appeared to be going to shit this season but he's rallied, the fecker. Hard not to be conflicted. What fan didn't love the second half at Chelsea, vs Newcastle, at Bournemouth, the breathless conclusion vs Juve. Who can say the players aren't playing for him? Nobody has enjoyed the football much but he's got something when he's like this. Nobody's anti Jose no matter what, are they? Or not many. Progress I'd say is the key word. We go and put in a performance against City, that's progress. See what happens next week. Working himself back into a position of genuine challengers would be maybe the biggest achievement of his career. He looks up for it again. I can't be the only one curious to see if he can build on the last couple of weeks.

 

[Buster15]

That is one seriously obnoxious post.

It is also factually incorrect.

We finished second last season - our highest since the big man retired.

We weren't even in the CL for most of that time.

No self respecting United supporter is happy with where we have been since SAF and are now. But. To infer that there has not been any progress under Jose is downright wrong.
Agreed the progress has been slow and inconsistent but it is happening.
Players previously out of form are improving.
We are beginning to play more on the front foot.
The team is beginning to play for Jose (as well as the club).

Acid test: Name another manager who would have achieved more.

It could go horribly wrong against City but we are going into that game in reasonable form.

 

[EwanI Ted]

It is also factually incorrect.

We finished second last season - our highest since the big man retired.

We weren't even in the CL for most of that time.

No self respecting United supporter is happy with where we have been since SAF and are now. But. To infer that there has not been any progress under Jose is downright wrong.
Agreed the progress has been slow and inconsistent but it is happening.
Players previously out of form are improving.
We are beginning to play more on the front foot.
The team is beginning to play for Jose (as well as the club).

Acid test: Name another manager who would have achieved more.

It could go horribly wrong against City but we are going into that game in reasonable form.

Looking at those bolded points, while they're certainly true, it feels like thin gruel given he's been with us for two and a half years already. By this point I'd hope to be approaching something like the finished article, instead we seem to be still struggling with the basics of team selection and playing style.

 

[Andrew~]

I still don't think he's the one to take the team foward, but one can't deny he's managed to get into the players' heads and they are at least putting up a bit of fight.

Could be wrong though, so we'll see.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Are United producing 90 minute displays? No. They haven't produced one in Mourinho's entire tenure.
Are they creating enough clear-cut chances, specifically in the penalty area? No.
Are they defensively sound? No.
Are they better than last year? No.
Are players being coached up or made to look better by a system of play? No.
Are they 1,2 players away from being an unstoppable machine? No.
Are they closer to winning the PL or CL? No.


Is Mourinho a builder? No.
Is Mourinho a unifier? No.
Is Woodward a football man? No.
Is the club setup helping to recruit the best players? No.
Will Mourinho work with a DOF? No.
Is Mourinho the future? No.

Is all this clearly visible? Yes.

Sad but true. No idea how a club in this predicament plans to get back to the top.

 

[Buster15]

Looking at those bolded points, while they're certainly true, it feels like thin gruel given he's been with us for two and a half years already. By this point I'd hope to be approaching something like the finished article, instead we seem to be still struggling with the basics of team selection and playing style.

We all did my friend. The reality is that any manager taking over such a big team as United, especially after two failed attempts to replace someone like SAF would by definition have a far more difficult job.

Therefore, it will and is taking significantly longer than some expected. Any manager would struggle to deal with all the problems some of which are still there.

He has found it much more difficult than at other clubs and sometimes has made surprising decisions but taking a broad view I believe that the worst is behind him now.

Whatever we think, he is our manager and United's fortunates depend on Jose Mourinho in the short term.

 

[Kevin]

Ironic how the talent he almost destroyed is the one scoring the goals that are keeping him in the job. Now he's giving it large and saying how he finally managed to polish the rough diamond that was Martial. As shameless as his cultists on here.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Ironic how the talent he almost destroyed is the one scoring the goals that are keeping him in the job. Now he's giving it large and saying how he finally managed to polish the rough diamond that was Martial. As shameless as his cultists on here.

Just waiting for the Matic injury where pereira comes in besides pogba & the same is done.

It was all the plan..

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Are United producing 90 minute displays? No. They haven't produced one in Mourinho's entire tenure.
Are they creating enough clear-cut chances, specifically in the penalty area? No.
Are they defensively sound? No.
Are they better than last year? No.
Are players being coached up or made to look better by a system of play? No.
Are they 1,2 players away from being an unstoppable machine? No.
Are they closer to winning the PL or CL? No.


Is Mourinho a builder? No.
Is Mourinho a unifier? No.
Is Woodward a football man? No.
Is the club setup helping to recruit the best players? No.
Will Mourinho work with a DOF? No.
Is Mourinho the future? No.

Is all this clearly visible? Yes.

You should get a like for this post. Simple and to the point.

Whilst some may be argued - hardly all of them remain a wrong view.

 

[crossy1686]

The meltdown in this thread would be epic.
A lot of people on this forum make this place toxic. A contract renewal would bring toxicity levels to hiter to, unseen levels.

I’d honestly love it.