The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%

  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%

  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%
  • Total voters
    2,977
Status
Not open for further replies.
WensleyMU said:
Yes, you're all only miserable because you can see the bigger picture... That's exactly what it is... :rolleyes:

The bigger picture has been unraveling in front of you for weeks now, of you possessed the capability to see it, then you would. This United side is one that's in tune with its manager, fighting for him, for themselves. Many of you hoped we would lose these games because apparently, the bigger picture a month ago was that we needed to lose to get Jose sacked. That was your bigger picture.

If there's one thing I've noticed from the Jose outers, it's that they will shift those goalposts as far as they need to to. It's always just "one game" even when it's now 4 or 5 and consistent form and results.

You'll be hoping City paste us do you can post your "told you so" posts no doubt.
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I've wanted to José out for a long time but I've always maintained he's had the squads backing (even at half time against Newcastle when the squad was getting abuse on here), and love every win.

I do disagree with your form comment. Consistent results, yeah. I still think we look like a very unorganised team, though, and that's my only problem, which, to be fair, is a big one.
 
WensleyMU said:
Yes, you're all only miserable because you can see the bigger picture... That's exactly what it is... :rolleyes:

The bigger picture has been unraveling in front of you for weeks now, of you possessed the capability to see it, then you would. This United side is one that's in tune with its manager, fighting for him, for themselves. Many of you hoped we would lose these games because apparently, the bigger picture a month ago was that we needed to lose to get Jose sacked. That was your bigger picture.

If there's one thing I've noticed from the Jose outers, it's that they will shift those goalposts as far as they need to to. It's always just "one game" even when it's now 4 or 5 and consistent form and results.

You'll be hoping City paste us do you can post your "told you so" posts no doubt.
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Who are you referring to in this tirade of yours? If you can pinpoint these posters that want United to lose games then crack on and do so, otherwise this is just fluff. Or shite, for want of a less fluffy adjective.

The team is fighting for the manager. They’re fighting for the club. I (among others) was arguing this when their effort was being criticised as a result of losing.

That doesn’t detract from the reality we’re a poor attacking team that struggles to score goals and (presently) concede far too many. 90th minute winners against Bournemouth and Juventus - games in which we were outplayed for large parts - don’t change that. If anything, they just reinforce the belief that the players aren’t all arrogant mercenaries. Who’d have thought it?
 
There are plenty of posters who have stated they want us to lose, as you are well aware. Naming them achieves nothing. I am simply directing the post as a particular type of supporter, not at any individual(s). This idea that they see the bigger picture, when only a few weeks ago the bigger picture involved us losing so Mourinho was sacked was what I was addressing.

If you want to know who these posters are, then go back to the days before the Newcastle game, the match thread for said game and each match day thread since.

And we've been far from outplayed, barring the home game against Juventus we've performed well. We battered Newcastle, were the better side v Chelsea, each side had a better half in the Bournemouth game and we were the better side v Everton. Last night we more than held our own but for a period after Juventus scored.
 
WensleyMU said:
Yes, you're all only miserable because you can see the bigger picture... That's exactly what it is... :rolleyes:

The bigger picture has been unraveling in front of you for weeks now, of you possessed the capability to see it, then you would. This United side is one that's in tune with its manager, fighting for him, for themselves. Many of you hoped we would lose these games because apparently, the bigger picture a month ago was that we needed to lose to get Jose sacked. That was your bigger picture.

If there's one thing I've noticed from the Jose outers, it's that they will shift those goalposts as far as they need to to. It's always just "one game" even when it's now 4 or 5 and consistent form and results.

You'll be hoping City paste us do you can post your "told you so" posts no doubt.
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I go away a week and WensleyMU is still on this thread ranting away.

I don't think any United fans want the club to do badly. Otherwise, they would be supporting another club.

I don't get the point of your post. You seem to have very pompous high ground, as if you're a better supporter than those who want Mourinho out. People are entitled their opinion.

Some of us who want Mourinho out, have our own specific reasons why. However, if Mourinho changed and showed fans that he is willing to adapt to the ways of this club (I'm not going to go into it again), people's opinions would also change.

I'm glad that there are SMALL signs of improvement in results. He now has to continue this over a sustained period. We've had a few false dawns in the last few years.

Let’s not get too carried away. There are many things that still improve my opinion. One thing I’m impressed with is how we are fighting back from deficits. It would be good to see less deficits and more build up play.

The City game will be an interesting one. Though there needs to be a consistent run of at least a few months of playing solid.

Regardless, I’m still on the fence. But that doesn’t make me a lesser fan.
 
Kag said:
Who are you referring to in this tirade of yours? If you can pinpoint these posters that want United to lose games then crack on and do so, otherwise this is just fluff. Or shite, for want of a less fluffy adjective.

The team is fighting for the manager. They’re fighting for the club. I (among others) was arguing this when their effort was being criticised as a result of losing.

That doesn’t detract from the reality we’re a poor attacking team that struggles to score goals and (presently) concede far too many. 90th minute winners against Bournemouth and Juventus - games in which we were outplayed for large parts - don’t change that. If anything, they just reinforce the belief that the players aren’t all arrogant mercenaries. Who’d have thought it?
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Sorry but it is most certainly not fluff or shite.
I had at least two posts in response to one of mine, where I criticised people who actually said that they wanted United to loose in order to hasten Jose being sacked.

In both cases I was told that they had the clubs interest at heart by wanting United to loose the next game.

I have no intention of naming the posters but they very well known who they are and what they said.
 
There aren’t any Man Utd fans that want us to lose a game just for giggles. It will be for the long term future of the club.

Remember when Moyes was manager? I put my hands up, I wanted him to keep losing in the end so he’d get sacked. Because the future and long term health of the club is far more important that a few league matches.

It’s similar to Jose. Some were fed up with the football, his miserable interviews, the general atmosphere around the place. Losing a match which means things would change long term isn’t such a bad thing. It doesn’t make you less of a fan for wishing either one thing or the other. Everyone here (apart from the opponent fans obviously) want the best for United.

There are three camps from what I can gather:

Camp A want to see Jose succeed long term and for the football to improve and for himself to stop being controversial and to cheer up. But this camp isn’t convinced it will ever happen for a sustained period of time. I’m in this camp.

Camp B wants Jose out no matter what. They’re convinced that he’s going to fail and things will never improve on or off the pitch with him in charge.

Camp C wants Jose to be given as much time as required and do not want us to keep sacking managers. They don’t like Utd having different managers every 3 years and can see Jose delivering the goods in time to come, if backed by the owners.
 
He’s turning it round and has the team fighting for him. For me we have changed manager too many times already, we need to stick with him and he should be judged based on the end of the season success and league position.

As it stands we finished second last season and got to an FA cup final, we have had a slow start to the season after an awful pre-season and lack of backing in the transfer window. I won’t be changing my vote, he should stay and be backed.
 
The ardent ‘Jose-in’ group are so fecking preachy and whiney. Just lose the ‘holier than thou’ stance it’s utterly tiresome. These same fans were crying after people called them ‘fanboys’ the other days but I see they are still banging out the old favourite ‘hater’ adage. And apparently people that want him gone are ‘desperate to be right on the internet’ - funnily enough, the staunch ‘in’ crowd are the absolute worst culprits for this kind of carry on and also telling others what they think.
 
Robbie Boy said:
The ardent ‘Jose-in’ group are so fecking preachy and whiney. Just lose the ‘holier than thou’ stance it’s utterly tiresome. These same fans were crying after people called them ‘fanboys’ the other days but I see they are still banging out the old favourite ‘hater’ adage. And apparently people that want him gone are ‘desperate to be right on the internet’ - funnily enough, the staunch ‘in’ crowd are the absolute worst culprits for this kind of carry on and also telling others what they think.
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You can hardly blame them though, look at the fecking poll :lol:
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
It tells you they’ll need to shout extremely loud to be heard.
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It’s a poll on the internet with a discussion so I’ve no idea what that even means.

Things have improved but I’m certainly not changing my vote until I see a far vaster improvement. I won’t be shouting anything as it’s a y’know, poll on the internet that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. However, it does offer a picture of how fans are thinking as most polls do.

That being said, I don’t feel the need to sit up on my high horse and preach like the ardent ‘in crowd’ do. Oh they are so ‘holier than thou’ because they believe in the manager. The underperforming manager. They need to take a step back and think before they post. They have an issue with ‘fanboy’ but lash out ‘hater’ on a daily basis. Once we get a win, they’re out in force telling everyone how right they are, but yet they say people that want him gone are only desperate to be right on the internet. It’s ok I can see through these transparent condescending posters.
 
We can argue Jose in, Jose out all day.
And the results under mourinho have been up and down sometimes and both sides have had reasons to say, this is why I want Jose in or out based on these results.

And I will put my stance out there personally. I for one , if just based on the results we have had since Jose came in, then I wouldn’t be quick to say Jose out, I would be all for “giving him time to improve and make results the best we want it to be”.

But fortunately or unfortunately, other factors also come into play. One huge factor which some of our fans are so quick to ignore is : “Style of Play”. Some of our fans in their desperation to see Mourinho succeeed are insisting we throw out all our traditions and forget our identity. Forget what made us attractive to the world and even to sponsors. We have been playing a style of football that has received criticism from both united fans , neutrals and pundits alike whiles having little to show for it.
It’s just a matter of time until all the huge sponsorships that keep us operating at a high level, all line up knocking on the doors of Manchester City. Since they keep winning the hearts of neutrals and the media with their brand of football.

When mourinho first joined, there were promises of keeping the United tradition. He said he plans to keep Mata and give him a prominent role in the team because there will be a change in the profile of his team in regards to how he played at Chelsea. So we were all excited to see a winning side and more attacking football than what Mourinho offered at Chelsea. So far that hasn’t materialised. We accepted the first season because he won the Europa and well it was his first season so we thought the attacking football will come when he spends more. He did more spending in his second season and yet offered some of the worst football we have seen in our history but we placed second in the league, so we got him two more players to try improve the style of play. And we are still at the same place. Poor football and now even the results are not so good. It’s picked up a bit in recent weeks.

But the main question is, are you as fans really satisfied with the football on offer? Results shouldn’t be at the expense of good football all the time. We have seen that with Barca, Madrid, city, and United of old just to mention a few.

I understand “we” united fans don’t like the idea of changing coaches all the time. But is this coach, who offers a type of football that is so opposed to our traditions, the coach we want to to go long term with?
Over the past 2 and half seasons, I think he has made it clear to us that he is not going to change his style. Why are we persisting with a style that makes u so unattractive. We will soon end up being over taken even in the money department as well by teams that play nicer football if we don’t make a change soon.

In summary, I want Mourinho to leave becuase the football he offers is just not good enough. The results are not great either. I think they are improving and he might even finish in the top 4. But he is just not the coach for us.
 
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I won't change my vote until he shows he can control his mood swings for the general good of the players and the club for an extended period of time.

He's in a good mood now, but it's just as likely to change tomorrow. The man's a walking timebomb.
 
spiriticon said:
I won't change my vote until he shows he can control his mood swings for the general good of the players and the club for an extended period of time.

He's in a good mood now, but it's just as likely to change tomorrow. The man's a walking timebomb.
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You prefer someone calm and quiet, like SAF?
 
CA_vampire said:
You prefer someone calm and quiet, like SAF?
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No need to be calm or quiet. But preferably someone who isn't self-destructive when in a foul mood, then has to waste a quarter/half of a season trying to rebuild morale back to normal.

What a waste of time.
 
I do have to laugh though, we have had better periods of form under Mourinho.. so for me this run of games means very little unless it's sustained and built upon.
We've had so many false dawns over the last 5 years, remember LVG's run of 'horny football'.

If Mourinho can use this season to adopt a consistent style of play which not only brings results but entertainment.
"Consistent" being the key term here.
The thing though that baffles me is giving 'Mourinho' time.. you don't give Mourinho time, he delivers sucess instantly and leaves.. that isn't something that's going to change.

I have to say though, the football forum with the 'extreme' Mourinho outs and the Mourinho in's, it's like fecking Rawk and Bluemoon over the last few years.. virtually no difference.
 
Stactix said:
The thing though that baffles me is giving 'Mourinho' time.. you don't give Mourinho time, he delivers success instantly and leaves.. that isn't something that's going to change.
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How can you say that with any confidence though? When/if he finishes the season here, it will be his longest serving job since becoming a manager.
 
Vadim said:
He’s right though. Changing votes on a match to match basis is knee jerk.

Saying that, if we go to City on Sunday and play well, and get a result. Then we win the game afterwards and climb the league, I’ll be happy to change my tune on Jose.

I think most Utd fans would rather be wrong about Jose and see the team do well than right and see us struggle. Surely?

He deserves praise tonight. Go on Jose.
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Sadly I think you're wrong about that. We have improved slightly the last couple of matches but many wont aknowledge it because of their desire for Mourinho to fail.

Even in games we've done ok many just look at the bad instead of the things we've improved on. I want us to have another manager but I'm not so eager for Jose to leave that I can't see that we are improving a little every game. And I'm not that driven by my feelings towards Mourinho that I can't give him praise when he deserves it.

Hopefully this upward trend continues a bit longer and we manage to have a good season after that terrible start.
 
Denis79 said:
Sadly I think you're wrong about that. We have improved slightly the last couple of matches but many wont aknowledge it because of their desire for Mourinho to fail.

Even in games we've done ok many just look at the bad instead of the things we've improved on. I want us to have another manager but I'm not so eager for Jose to leave that I can't see that we are improving a little every game. And I'm not that driven by my feelings towards Mourinho that I can't give him praise when he deserves it.

Hopefully this upward trend continues a bit longer and we manage to have a good season after that terrible start.
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Most United fans would absolutely want Jose to succeed. However many posters on this forum do NOT. Many many posters on here did not want him in the first place and dislike him on a personal level despite not even knowing him personally. My matchgoing experience is vastly different to the forum experience. Pretty much every Jose-out I've met was pushed over the limit after initially supporting him.

As an example of how different things are. When you talk to a fan in real life about buying better defenders they agree and say that players like Jones and Rojo have been here too long without contributing. When you say that we need a RW they say, yes we haven't had a proper right winger since Valencia.

If you bring that stuff up on here, you're bombarded with people calling you a Jose-lover and telling you how if you play like they say we'll be challenge for the title. When that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. To add to this, it makes no sense in the first place since our defenders have been here under multiple managers with different playing styles and not performed.
 
breakout67 said:
Most United fans would absolutely want Jose to succeed. However many posters on this forum do NOT. Many many posters on here did not want him in the first place and dislike him on a personal level despite not even knowing him personally. My matchgoing experience is vastly different to the forum experience. Pretty much every Jose-out I've met was pushed over the limit after initially supporting him.

As an example of how different things are. When you talk to a fan in real life about buying better defenders they agree and say that players like Jones and Rojo have been here too long without contributing. When you say that we need a RW they say, yes we haven't had a proper right winger since Valencia.

If you bring that stuff up on here, you're bombarded with people calling you a Jose-lover and telling you how if you play like they say we'll be challenge for the title. When that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. To add to this, it makes no sense in the first place since our defenders have been here under multiple managers with different playing styles and not performed.
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I agree we need reinforcements. Many people agree on that. But it’s not as dire as mourinho and the mourinho in folks makes it seems. Because the more they portray our players as being poor quality , the more sense it makes that mourinho is not to blame for our poor performances but rather player quality.

And that is something a lot of people are keen to stress on is totally false. We can do better than what mourinho is doing with these players.

And your statement about defence is factually wrong. The statistics shows our defence was good under van gaal and also under Mourinho until this season. Chris Smalling for example was immense under Van Gaal. Mourinho is also responsible for purchasing Bailey and Lindeloff. So it’s not like the defence hasn’t been reinforced. Maybe the reinforcements haven’t gone great, but mourinho and the mourinho in folks paint our situation worse than it is, just to make mourinho look good. And that’s what a lot of people don’t want to stand for.
 
People can keep perpetuating these fallacies that “people want Mourinhio to fail” and roll them out as if they are fact. Say it all you want but it’s not fact and remains bullshit of the highest order. There are maybe 2/3 posters max on here that genuinely seem to hate the man and would do anything to see him go. That’s it, it’s a minority not worthy of discussion.

The majority wanted him - I know I certainly did - but aren’t happy with how things have gone. As I said, there’s been improvements of late, but nowhere near enough for me to change my vote. Scraping a-few wins against teams like Newcastle and Bournemouth don’t cut the mustard for me. For me to change my stance, the improvements will have to take a far more upwards trajectory.

The ‘in crowd’ will cry when people don’t laud wins against the likes of Newcastle but will talk utter hyperbolic nonsense about said wins. It’s funny, to be completely honest. They genuinely do think they’re ‘better fans’ and bitch and moan about all the things the ‘out crowd’ do - even though they do the exact same things but in reverse - while being completely oblivious to it all. I read an amazing rant about the use of ‘fanboy’ in here, yet some tosser today launched into a ‘hate / haters’ tirade because someone disagreed with them. The double standards are amazing.
 
Robbie Boy said:
What’s that supposed to mean? Does the poll not tell you that maybe, just maybe, his ardent fans aren’t correct?
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A wise man once said ‘that if 99 out of 100 people hold the same opinion, it doesn’t make them right and the lonesome 1 wrong’.

An opinion is an opinion, it is not fact.
 
On this page you have one poster saying that it's ok to want us to lose games so the manager gets sacked, that he/she is open to the idea and has done it before

And another poster saying there are 2/3 posters max that want the manager to fail.

Is it ignorance or something more malicious?
 
The problem with Jose was always that he was making mistakes with his tactics, his use of players in certain positions, the formation, the favouritism towards certain players & his management of trying to turn United to a club that follows his tactics of his older clubs.


He is changing that much more now & that's why people are happier; yet he could do it much more - without the need to change players.

Why not play two strikers?
 
the chameleon said:
I go away a week and WensleyMU is still on this thread ranting away.

I don't think any United fans want the club to do badly. Otherwise, they would be supporting another club.

I don't get the point of your post. You seem to have very pompous high ground, as if you're a better supporter than those who want Mourinho out. People are entitled their opinion.

Some of us who want Mourinho out, have our own specific reasons why. However, if Mourinho changed and showed fans that he is willing to adapt to the ways of this club (I'm not going to go into it again), people's opinions would also change.

I'm glad that there are SMALL signs of improvement in results. He now has to continue this over a sustained period. We've had a few false dawns in the last few years.

Let’s not get too carried away. There are many things that still improve my opinion. One thing I’m impressed with is how we are fighting back from deficits. It would be good to see less deficits and more build up play.

The City game will be an interesting one. Though there needs to be a consistent run of at least a few months of playing solid.

Regardless, I’m still on the fence. But that doesn’t make me a lesser fan.
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I certainly don't think I am a better or worse fan than anyone, well, certainly better than any fan who wants us to lose. What I do know is I am able to enjoy our recent results.

I don't know if you or any of the others who my post struck a nerve with have noticed, but it's far from just pro Mourinho posters who are calling out those uber miserable posters out on their views. Plenty of posters who are in the Jose out camp are also asking why these people cannot just enjoy the game for a while.
 
It's not that people dont want to see him succeed, its the belief that he wont succeed. Pretty much everyone wants to see us back to where we were during our glory years, some of us feel like the evidence points to him not being the man to take us there.

I've seen the square root of feck all to suggest he'll do so hence I'd like us to find someone that will show more signs that he could/can. Not someone making ridiculous excuses as to why we aren't further ahead in our progress.

We have yet, during his reign, to put in anything that resembles a string of consistent performances. We dish out middle of the road performance, after middle of the road performance and have the audacity to act surprised when we get middle of the road results.

Great teams, which we're going to need to be to win anything substantial especially in this era dish out consistently great performances week in week out. Even when they dont get the results, they pretty much play well. We are far from that, too far imo for the investment we've put in.

Take Juve for example, who are obviously a great team. They wont mind losing a match like last night cause common sense tells you if they play like that most of the time against big sides, they are going to win most of the matches. City pretty much out perform every side they run into even in matches they sometimes don't win. Barca drew vs Inter, again they'll win most of the time playing like that. Us? now way its possible to collect enough results to win any of the two big trophies with these sort of performances.

We know this because we used to have title winning teams.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
The problem with Jose was always that he was making mistakes with his tactics, his use of players in certain positions, the formation, the favouritism towards certain players & his management of trying to turn United to a club that follows his tactics of his older clubs.


He is changing that much more now & that's why people are happier; yet he could do it much more - without the need to change players.

Why not play two strikers?
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Apart from what you said, I think there's a big problem with the way he coaches his players, and at present though there are a few glimpses of improvement I don't really think there've been enough to conclude that he has improved in that regard. We'll see as the season goes on.
 
RooneyLegend said:
It's not that people dont want to see him succeed, its the belief that he wont succeed. Pretty much everyone wants to see us back to where we were during our glory years, some of us feel like the evidence points to him not being the man to take us there.

I've seen the square root of feck all to suggest he'll do so hence I'd like us to find someone that will show more signs that he could/can. Not someone making ridiculous excuses as to why we aren't further ahead in our progress.

We have yet, during his reign, to put in anything that resembles a string of consistent performances. We dish out middle of the road performance, after middle of the road performance and have the audacity to act surprised when we get middle of the road results.

Great teams, which we're going to need to be to win anything substantial especially in this era dish out consistently great performances week in week out. Even when they dont get the results, they pretty much play well. We are far from that, too far imo for the investment we've put in.

Take Juve for example, who are obviously a great team. They wont mind losing a match like last night cause common sense tells you if they play like that most of the time against big sides, they are going to win most of the matches. City pretty much out perform every side they run into even in matches they sometimes don't win. Barca drew vs Inter, again they'll win most of the time playing like that. Us? now way its possible to collect enough results to win any of the two big trophies with these sort of performances.

We know this because we used to have title winning teams.
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We certainly are used to title winning teams but rarely did we dominate game after game as some are desperate for is to do now before considering it a decent performance.

We played a lot closer to how we have played the past 5 or 6 games, Juventus(h) aside than we did like a peak Barcelona or the current City.

United games were always battles, and often, we made it harder for ourselves but that was part of the attraction.

Theres a sense of that now, based on recent weeks and recent performances. I'm not saying Jose is Fergie MK2, far from, but that this United side fights and never gives up like the United sides we all loved.

Let other sides have their 300 5-0 wins, their 600 points and 10000 goals. I will take a 90th minute winner every single time, a come back win, a smash and grab. It's what I grew up with.
 
Rash Decision said:
Apart from what you said, I think there's a big problem with the way he coaches his players, and at present though there are a few glimpses of improvement I don't really think there've been enough to conclude that he has improved in that regard. We'll see as the season goes on.
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The thing that I see with Jose is - and this is coming from a fans perspective is that ultimately what a lot fans wanted have proven to be right.

Whilst he said that he was playing the likes of martial or Shaw due to fans wanting it - it has ultimately been proven successful right?
The players that we fans want the team to correlate around have been more successful than Jose's choices. I ultimately see the tactics alpt of the fans talk about better than what Jose puts out on the pitch - except for Jose's match winning capability of changing a few last minute tactics that he adapts to get the best out of his opposition - that is why he is historically been a great manager; because he can outwit the opposition well.

Lukaku was the main guy our attacks revolved around & now that seems to be martial. Players like felliani are great at our plan B rather than plan A. Players like Shaw have been great. Players like Rashford have been ruined in terms of how he approached football by playing him on the wings in my opinion & even to this day fans or ex players like ri0 say that Rashford is meant to be our striker - at least over Lukaku. The list can go on -

However just because Jose is trying to sort out the mistakes he previously made doesn't make him the best man for the Job does it? I'd still love to see what a manager who is fully flexible to adapt his tactics towards his players can do at United. To this day I think 352 with a front 3 of Sanchez, Martial & Rashford is one of the best attacks in the PL - do I see Jose using it though? Doubt it.

Ultimately - if Jose is here then the players that would allow him to be the best man for the job is players like Lukaku, players like perisic & Willian supplying him, players like felliani & Matic having vital & important roles for the club.

On the other hand - is Jose the man to unlock martial, Rashford, Sanchez, pogba, pereira,, shaws hell even players like chong & greenwood's potential - I simply don't see why that is the case.

The whole Woodward vs Jose thing is clearly because both of them had two different paths to take United. One wouldn't be too worried about playing martial as a bit part player whilst another was adamant that he should be one of the main players at the club. That resonantes with alpt of the decisions I have seen so far in this 2. 5 years.

If Jose was the best man for this type of player & this type of club - he would have adapted his tactics the moment he came in his first year - however we see it in his 3rd year after his tactics has ultimately failed and or been disagreed upon.
 
WensleyMU said:
We certainly are used to title winning teams but rarely did we dominate game after game as some are desperate for is to do now before considering it a decent performance.

We played a lot closer to how we have played the past 5 or 6 games, Juventus(h) aside than we did like a peak Barcelona or the current City.

United games were always battles, and often, we made it harder for ourselves but that was part of the attraction.

Theres a sense of that now, based on recent weeks and recent performances. I'm not saying Jose is Fergie MK2, far from, but that this United side fights and never gives up like the United sides we all loved.

Let other sides have their 300 5-0 wins, their 600 points and 10000 goals. I will take a 90th minute winner every single time, a come back win, a smash and grab. It's what I grew up with.
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This is what you're not understanding. We are not going to smash and grab our way to 90 plus points, its virtually impossible. To suggest our performances in our title winning years were like what were seeing now is ludicrous. We used to have lots of regulation wins, the likes which barely happen nowadays.

You're right, we were never Barca or City but then again none of our competitors were. No team really needs to score all those goals to win titles. Look at Juve, they dont do that but yet win pretty much every season. Atletico also have done really well in recent years without being some attacking machine. However those sides are defensive behemoths, something we arent.

Those teams, especially Juve are dominant in their own way. In a way we dont look like being anytime soon.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
The thing that I see with Jose is - and this is coming from a fans perspective is that ultimately what a lot fans wanted have proven to be right.

Whilst he said that he was playing the likes of Martial or Shaw due to fans wanting it - it has ultimately been proven successful right?
The players that we fans want the team to correlate around have been more successful than Jose's choices. I ultimately see the tactics alpt of the fans talk about better than what Jose puts out on the pitch - except for Jose's match winning capability of changing a few last minute tactics that he adapts to get the best out of his opposition - that is why he is historically been a great manager; because he can outwit the opposition well.

Lukaku was the main guy our attacks revolved around & now that seems to be Martial. Players like felliani are great at our plan B rather than plan A. Players like Shaw have been great. Players like Rashford have been ruined in terms of how he approached football by playing him on the wings in my opinion & even to this day fans or ex players like ri0 say that Rashford is meant to be our striker - at least over Lukaku. The list can go on -

However just because Jose is trying to sort out the mistakes he previously made doesn't make him the best man for the Job does it? I'd still love to see what a manager who is fully flexible to adapt his tactics towards his players can do at United. To this day I think 352 with a front 3 of Sanchez, Martial & Rashford is one of the best attacks in the PL - do I see Jose using it though? Doubt it.

Ultimately - if Jose is here then the players that would allow him to be the best man for the job is players like Lukaku, players like perisic & Willian supplying him, players like felliani & Matic having vital & important roles for the club.

On the other hand - is Jose the man to unlock Martial, Rashford, Sanchez, Pogba, Pereira,, shaws hell even players like Chong & greenwood's potential - I simply don't see why that is the case.

The whole Woodward vs Jose thing is clearly because both of them had two different paths to take United. One wouldn't be too worried about playing Martial as a bit part player whilst another was adamant that he should be one of the main players at the club. That resonantes with alpt of the decisions I have seen so far in this 2. 5 years.

If Jose was the best man for this type of player & this type of club - he would have adapted his tactics the moment he came in his first year - however we see it in his 3rd year after his tactics has ultimately failed and or been disagreed upon.
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I hate to be the one to break this but you can't have a 352 with a front 3 of any kind because a 352 has a front 2 (obviously).
 
Bob H from Manchester said:
I hate to be the one to break this but you can't have a 352 with a front 3 of any kind because a 352 has a front 2 (obviously).
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A 352 can be played with a false CDM playing as a cover CB that drops in to the defensive line when needed whilst also having a false Cf that goes up to the front 2 to make it in to a front 3 on the attack. It is that type of tactic that stops a 352 becoming actually a 532 - rather it is a 2-1-4-1-2 an equal balance between defence & attack
 
Players are fighting, he has not lost the dressing room. On to City :devil:.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
The players that we fans want the team to correlate around have been more successful than Jose's choices.
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I’m struggling to understand what you are talking about. Fans can’t agree on anything, let alone which players to play where. Acting like “the fans” are some collective force on the same page and not a wild cross section of differeing opinions is pretty silly.

Pogba is the best player in the team vs pobga is too much up his own arse.

Martial needs to play as a striker vs he’s made the left wing his own.

Rashford needs time to develop vs “Rashford”

Mata is past it and needs to go vs mata is our most consistent attacker.

I could go on and on and on. “The fans” aren’t even on the same page about Jose, or even your opinion that we are better now compared to last season “because he’s doing what the fans wanted”.

And I don’t even know what to do with your 3-5-2 with a front 3. You do know how numbers work, right?
 
Slik said:
We can argue Jose in, Jose out all day.
And the results under Mourinho have been up and down sometimes and both sides have had reasons to say, this is why I want Jose in or out based on these results.

And I will put my stance out there personally. I for one , if just based on the results we have had since Jose came in, then I wouldn’t be quick to say Jose out, I would be all for “giving him time to improve and make results the best we want it to be”.

But fortunately or unfortunately, other factors also come into play. One huge factor which some of our fans are so quick to ignore is : “Style of Play”. Some of our fans in their desperation to see Mourinho succeeed are insisting we throw out all our traditions and forget our identity. Forget what made us attractive to the world and even to sponsors. We have been playing a style of football that has received criticism from both united fans , neutrals and pundits alike whiles having little to show for it.
It’s just a matter of time until all the huge sponsorships that keep us operating at a high level, all line up knocking on the doors of Manchester City. Since they keep winning the hearts of neutrals and the media with their brand of football.

When Mourinho first joined, there were promises of keeping the United tradition. He said he plans to keep Mata and give him a prominent role in the team because there will be a change in the profile of his team in regards to how he played at Chelsea. So we were all excited to see a winning side and more attacking football than what Mourinho offered at Chelsea. So far that hasn’t materialised. We accepted the first season because he won the Europa and well it was his first season so we thought the attacking football will come when he spends more. He did more spending in his second season and yet offered some of the worst football we have seen in our history but we placed second in the league, so we got him two more players to try improve the style of play. And we are still at the same place. Poor football and now even the results are not so good. It’s picked up a bit in recent weeks.

But the main question is, are you as fans really satisfied with the football on offer? Results shouldn’t be at the expense of good football all the time. We have seen that with Barca, Madrid, city, and United of old just to mention a few.

I understand “we” united fans don’t like the idea of changing coaches all the time. But is this coach, who offers a type of football that is so opposed to our traditions, the coach we want to to go long term with?
Over the past 2 and half seasons, I think he has made it clear to us that he is not going to change his style. Why are we persisting with a style that makes u so unattractive. We will soon end up being over taken even in the money department as well by teams that play nicer football if we don’t make a change soon.

In summary, I want Mourinho to leave becuase the football he offers is just not good enough. The results are not great either. I think they are improving and he might even finish in the top 4. But he is just not the coach for us.
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Good post. The recent “upturn” have not, and should not, change a lot of people’s minds about the progression of the team. I can understand where the Mou supporters are coming from in many ways but after 3 years it’s clear that he is not a good fit. We will never ever play swashbuckling football or anywhere close to what the majority of fans here would like to see.

Still in the out camp myself, but let’s give him till the end of the year. We can probably grind out a top 4 finish and round of 16 in the CL. In my view that’s the best we can hope for this year. We don’t need anymore instability with no clear upgrade candidate on the horizon.
 
WensleyMU said:
We certainly are used to title winning teams but rarely did we dominate game after game as some are desperate for is to do now before considering it a decent performance.

We played a lot closer to how we have played the past 5 or 6 games, Juventus(h) aside than we did like a peak Barcelona or the current City.

United games were always battles, and often, we made it harder for ourselves but that was part of the attraction.

Theres a sense of that now, based on recent weeks and recent performances. I'm not saying Jose is Fergie MK2, far from, but that this United side fights and never gives up like the United sides we all loved.

Let other sides have their 300 5-0 wins, their 600 points and 10000 goals. I will take a 90th minute winner every single time, a come back win, a smash and grab. It's what I grew up with.
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This false dichotomy really is a waste of time. United under Fergie used to grind out narrow wins and batter teams on a regular basis. There’s no reason we shouldn’t expect both these things to be happening regularly.
 
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