The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[zenith]

Despite the run of decent results of late , there is little doubt that Jose is not the best fit for this club and not the guy to manage flair players to well. He's a functional manager with a framework of techniques that lie within the bound of pragmatism.

To take the team to the next level we need a manager that is confident with handling creative football by young players. Perhaps, the end of the season might be time that the club let's him go

 

[sunama]

I smell a Mourinho united fan boy. Papering over cracks. I asked before, I’ll ask again, how much more time, money should Mourinho be given?

Can he be trusted? Do you you think he’s a capable of building a Champions League winning side? How long would that take?

I want to understand the WHYs over why you keep backing Mourinho and not able to see what a large majority are seeing?

Please, share with me those glasses of optimism, good sir!

Well, I am Jose In.
Why?
Because I have seen steady progression since he arrived. Last season we got 2nd and the aim of any manager of ours, is to win the league and other trophies.
In his first season we won 2 trophies. In his second season we were runner up in the FA Cup and finished runner up in the league. << Progression.
Last Summer was the Summer when we were supposed to buy a few more players to propel us to the title. Unfortunately, Woodward said, "no". Jose threw his toys out of the pram and the early part of our season got derailed.
Jose is now repairing the season. This is where we are right now.

Had Jose got the players he wanted AND we failed to win the title, then I too, would want him gone. But the fact that we had such a disasterous transfer window, effectively shifted the blame from Jose to Woodward.
Woodward, essentially gave Jose a "get out of jail card".

Jose has done the best job of any manager since SAF and given his CV (one of the most winningest managers currently in the game), I believe that he will definitely take us back into the top 4. Furthermore, if he is backed in the Summer, I feel that he is the manager most likely to win us the league title, fastest (vs if we hired a new manager).

Based on all of the above....I am still Jose In.

 

[sunama]

Perhaps, the end of the season might be time that the club let's him go

Perhaps. Though I would want to see how the full season pans out, first. Then make an assessment.

 

[Kapardin]

At this point, the only reason I would want him to stay beyond this season would be if:

1) Pogba and Martial are willing to continue to work under him. You can call it player power, but the hard fact is that these are two players we need to build the team around, who aren't averse to staying long term if the conditions are right, and who have a connect with the club culture. If we had a flawless manager, I'd consider him more valuable than these players, but Mourinho is not that good that we need to back him over these players.

2) He stops trying to actively pursue Willian and Matic type players at the expense of players like Martial whom he tries to ostracize. I assume we need a DoF or someone on that front who can veto bad targets and propose decent alternatives, not all on Mourinho, this one.

3) Style of play should be consistently what we saw in the second half against Chelsea and Bournemouth.

 

[SER19]

It really isn't bullshit. It should be and I wish it was like I wish these clowns who hope we lose games were a joke.

We haven't gone backwards either, weve had a period of poor form that we are now over coming. It happens.

I also think we should wait past the honeymoon period with Arsenal and Chelsea to be honest.

My advice is dont waste your energy. A meaningful discussion requires reasoning on both sides. You are dealing with foaming at the mouth frenzied fifa fans who change the reasons week by week. 1 month ago we were being destroyed by a toxic bully that had obviously lost the dressing room and was in classic season 3 mourinho mode. The hatred spewed along these lines was everywhere. We may not be perfect now but that argument seems to not be the case but the posters that were righteous with it dont remember saying it, they just move onto their next line. Its just unaccountable nonsense half the time. There are a few mourinho out posters who at least post with reason and make fair points.

 

[Jaxa]

He's never going to turn us into a title winning team, it's as clear as day, you can see we have a squad capable of actually doing pretty well, not perfect but enough to beat any team on there day,

But Jose and his stubborn approach to almost eveything is holding us back ten fold, I just cant see the pros to keeping him for the rest of the season, we have still regressed massively this season

 

[DoubleRevv]

Well, I am Jose In.
Why?
Because I have seen steady progression since he arrived. Last season we got 2nd and the aim of any manager of ours, is to win the league and other trophies.
In his first season we won 2 trophies. In his second season we were runner up in the FA Cup and finished runner up in the league. << Progression.
Last Summer was the Summer when we were supposed to buy a few more players to propel us to the title. Unfortunately, Woodward said, "no". Jose threw his toys out of the pram and the early part of our season got derailed.
Jose is now repairing the season. This is where we are right now.

Had Jose got the players he wanted AND we failed to win the title, then I too, would want him gone. But the fact that we had such a disasterous transfer window, effectively shifted the blame from Jose to Woodward.
Woodward, essentially gave Jose a "get out of jail card".

Jose has done the best job of any manager since SAF and given his CV (one of the most winningest managers currently in the game), I believe that he will definitely take us back into the top 4. Furthermore, if he is backed in the Summer, I feel that he is the manager most likely to win us the league title, fastest (vs if we hired a new manager).

Based on all of the above....I am still Jose In.

Very loft ambitions for the club. I commend you.

Edit: Jose is no longer as good as you would like to think he is. Either he has regressed in his ability as a football coach or others have caught up and surpassed him.

I am very much Jose out because he is incapable of motivating this team in the medium term. It takes a lot to build trust and yet trust is easily broken. It is going to take too long for him to:
(a) Rebuild trust with players he's thrown under the bus
(b) Create the style of play that fans want
(c) Deliver trophies

Jose is spent.

 

[Vadim]

I’ve been Jose out this season (I wasn’t to begin with but I can’t see progress under him).

I was excited when he first came in and he definitely steadied the ship and won us trophies which I am grateful to him for.

I’ll be so happy to be proven wrong but I just don’t think he’s kept up with the modern game and our football is archaic.

I don’t care about being wrong either. I love United more than being proven correct on an internet board. I really want him to succeed because he obviously wants to prove his doubters wrong himself. I just can’t see it happening.

 

[SER19]

Very loft ambitions for the club. I commend you.

Edit: Jose is no longer as good as you would like to think he is. Either he has regressed in his ability as a football coach or others have caught up and surpassed him.

I am very much Jose out because he is incapable of motivating this team in the medium term. It takes a lot to build trust and yet trust is easily broken. It is going to take too long for him to:
(a) Rebuild trust with players he's thrown under the bus
(b) Create the style of play that fans want
(c) Deliver trophies

Jose is spent.

What players has he ‘thrown under the bus’ that you feel there is lost trust and what do you use to determine that trust has been lost?

 

[crossy1686]

Very loft ambitions for the club. I commend you.

Edit: Jose is no longer as good as you would like to think he is. Either he has regressed in his ability as a football coach or others have caught up and surpassed him.

I am very much Jose out because he is incapable of motivating this team in the medium term. It takes a lot to build trust and yet trust is easily broken. It is going to take too long for him to:
(a) Rebuild trust with players he's thrown under the bus
(b) Create the style of play that fans want
(c) Deliver trophies

Jose is spent.

Care to justify any of the statements you've made in this post?

a) Shaw has signed a new contract and is in good form, Martial is looking great at the moment and is likely to sign a new contract, Pogba is also playing well so that puts to bed your comment about rebuilding trust from players.

b) What if you got hired as a manager, your boss told you "you have complete autonomy, get us back to winning ways". You do that and two years down the line your employer tells you to change the way you're doing things because they're not happy with the football and neither are the fans. You ask for some defenders who are better on the ball to suit the new playing style and your employer doesn't allow you to buy the players needed for the change of style. Square pegs, round holes.

c) You must have been sleeping for the past two seasons because we've been competitive. Your whole post is bollocks and that's putting it lightly.

p.s. We're 6 points of top spot, with City and Chelsea set to play later today.

 

[Vadim]

Care to justify any of the statements you've made in this post?

a) Shaw has signed a new contract and is in good form, Martial is looking great at the moment and is likely to sign a new contract, Pogba is also playing well so that puts to bed your comment about rebuilding trust from players.

b) What if you got hired as a manager, your boss told you "you have complete autonomy, get us back to winning ways". You do that and two years down the line your employer tells you to change the way you're doing things because they're not happy with the football and neither are the fans. You ask for some defenders who are better on the ball to suit the new playing style and your employer doesn't allow you to buy the players needed for the change of style. Square pegs, round holes.

c) You must have been sleeping for the past two seasons because we've been competitive. Your whole post is bollocks and that's putting it lightly.

p.s. We're 6 points of top spot, with City and Chelsea set to play later today.

Some serious clutching here. City will probably put 4 past Southampton. Chelsea will probably beat Palace. We’re essentially 9 points off top which is pretty bad considering it’s November.

 

[AndyMUFC]

It's a long old season, just wait and see what happens.

We've got flaws but he knows what they are, and after it looked curtains at half time against Newcastle, the players have shown they care even if they're not starting games well.

I still don't see many better alternatives available than Mourinho personally but people can agree to disagree.

 

[Foxbatt]

When he came I supported him but now we have not improved but getting worse.
I can't see Jose turning it around. He seems to have lost his mojo or he can't get the players to play better.
We have been playing terrible football and Jose is the only one who can't see that Matic cannot protect the defence and Lukaku can't score.
Tactics were supposed to be his strength but now he is being outsmarted by all the other managers tactically.

 

[the chameleon]

I’ve been Jose out this season (I wasn’t to begin with but I can’t see progress under him).

I was excited when he first came in and he definitely steadied the ship and won us trophies which I am grateful to him for.

I’ll be so happy to be proven wrong but I just don’t think he’s kept up with the modern game and our football is archaic.

I don’t care about being wrong either. I love United more than being proven correct on an internet board. I really want him to succeed because he obviously wants to prove his doubters wrong himself. I just can’t see it happening.

Same here. I'm all for being proven wrong. These are the conditions I would change my mind.

1. Playing style - there is a vast improvement in the playing style instead of thinking of physicality being able to build sides which are attack minded and tactically astute. Stop persisting with players like McTominay instead of Pereira.
2. He starts making use of the resources he already has. Let's be real here, he's spent £300+ million, but apart from Pogba, has struggled to truly understand what players to pick.
3. Understanding the value of youth and technical players. We have so many potentially brilliant kids coming through and it would be a shame if it gets wasted. Mourinho hardly has a track record with nurturing youth. He might play them, but then also throw them under the bus. This doesn't work with kids these days. They need the loving to slowly grow in confidence. If Mourinho is able to nurture youth properly and help develop them, we could save £100s of million.
4. Better transfer decisions - the rumours of the fact that he wanted to spend £50m on a 29-year-old Willian. He was ready to cut the chord with Martial and replace him with Perisic. Based on these targets and most of his signings, I feel uncomfortable with him having autonomy in transfer decisions. If he can make some better transfer decisions and buy players that will help improve the team while he's here but also help the club long term, then people might change opinions.
5. Stop falling out with press, players, club legends etc. Let's face it, he is the face of the club. He's the one who talks the most with the press. If he's miserable, it reflects on the club. He needs to liven up and people might like him more and it might create a better energy around the club.
6. Stop making stupid line-up decisions e.g. playing in McTominay in defence which seemed like a protest to the board.
7. Being a better man-manager for his players. This isn't the 00s Chelsea when hard love worked. Adapt those man-management skills and start enabling players to perform better.

If these things can improve, we could see a genuine upturn and some more positivity. There would be no threads of this type.

Whether we want him to stay or go! We all want the same thing.

Winning decisively. Playing eye-catching football. Winning leagues. Winning cups. Succeeding in Europe. Giving youth a chance. And always getting one over City and Liverpool.

 

[GreenHeron]

But the reality is that Martial is indeed playing like Jose wants. People saying he is not different are wrong IMO. His attitude is different, his defensive contributions and his off the ball movements have improved. Even the way he attacks has improved over the last season. It appeared like he was getting too one dimensional in the way he attacked but that has changed recently. And did anyone notice how he hugged Alexis for yesterday's assist?

I just think fans need to chill. The team has had a bad patch but what I perceive is it looks like they are all coming together and Jose is trying to change. In the past, he would have had a complete meltdown and once the pressure was on, adopted a totally defensive style to stop conceding goals and pick up points. And I totally love how he has been saying the right things about the players in the press even when Pogba seemed to burn him out there. I like the way things are evolving. Not as fast as I want but certainly gradually. I think this is the time for fans to really unite behind the team and see how things go this season.

Martial has had a run of games and is performing to his potential as a result, just like he was last November, December, early Jan when he was scoring goals and was player of the month twice. Like many players he is better when playing regularly and struggles when only playing occasionally.

Now he's seemingly woken up to the fact that Martial, Shaw, Pogba, Mata are good players to build a team around and not players to be tossed on the scrapheap, I'm happy for Mourinho to crack on and see if he can continue turning the season around.

But trying to pretend that Martial was rightfully dropped because of his own shortcomings and is only doing well because he's doing what Mourinho's told him is a complete steaming Douglas Hurd of an argument. Dropping Martial to accommodate Sanchez on the left was an awful error from a footballing perspective, awfully handled from a human perspective. I'm glad that Mourinho appears to have seen the error of his ways though.

 

[crossy1686]

Some serious clutching here. City will probably put 4 past Southampton. Chelsea will probably beat Palace. We’re essentially 9 points off top which is pretty bad considering it’s November.

So we measure ourselves on how many goals City and Chelsea score now? Don't understand the obsession with other teams going on in this place.

 

[RedRover]

So we measure ourselves on how many goals City and Chelsea score now? Don't understand the obsession with other teams going on in this place.

I can’t speak for the poster of that comment but it seems to me you’re missing the point - that being that we’re likely to be 9 points behind those teams by early November.

What’s wrong with comparing us to other teams? Surely that’s how performances and progress are measured? How else do you gauge it?

 

[Vadim]

So we measure ourselves on how many goals City and Chelsea score now? Don't understand the obsession with other teams going on in this place.

Erm, no. We measure ourselves with our league position and performances.

Both are way below Man Utd standards, no?

 

[Canagel]

Some serious clutching here. City will probably put 4 past Southampton. Chelsea will probably beat Palace. We’re essentially 9 points off top which is pretty bad considering it’s November.

Will most likely be 12 after next week. Which is game over.

 

[Beachryan]

So correct me if I'm wrong - we've won what, 3 of the last 9 matches? And 2 of those required almost last minute winners to dig us out of poor positions? And that was against Bournemouth and Newcastle?

Jesus wept standards have fallen.

We've gotten bossed for long chunks of every match we've played in the last 10 I'd say. Bournemouth should have been out of sight yesterday before we even remembered to start playing.

We seem to be pinning our hopes on one good half of football against Chelsea, which we still managed to screw up.

We're Manchester United. We have the highest-wage bill in world football (or near enough). We have the manager who has won more than anyone else bar Pep. We should be absolutely distraught at the garbage run of form we've been in for almost a full year now.

I just don't understand those saying to stick with what we're doing.

 

[crossy1686]

I can’t speak for the poster of that comment but it seems to me you’re missing the point - that being that we’re likely to be 9 points behind those teams by early November.

What’s wrong with comparing us to other teams? Surely that’s how performances and progress are measured? How else do you gauge it?

Erm, no. We measure ourselves with our league position and performances.

Both are way below Man Utd standards, no?

We may well be 9 points behind before the end of the weekend but there is a lot of football to be played between now and the end of the season. City won't get the same point haul they got last year, Liverpool and Chelsea won't sustain all season. We shouldn't be worrying about anyone or looking up the league to see how far away we are. Win the games that are put in front of you and nothing else matters.

I can only remember one season under SAF where we didn't start slow and I believe we had quite a blip at the end of October/early November that year.

This obsession with being the first to call something or write something off is incredibly tiresome. I wonder how some of you make it out of bed in the morning.

Bolded part, we've played well of late, exciting football and last minute winners which most of the Caf was crying out for a month or so ago. Our league position leaves something to be desired but if we keep winning that is irrelevant today.

 

[Rash Decision]

So correct me if I'm wrong - we've won what, 3 of the last 9 matches? And 2 of those required almost last minute winners to dig us out of poor positions? And that was against Bournemouth and Newcastle?

Jesus wept standards have fallen.

We've gotten bossed for long chunks of every match we've played in the last 10 I'd say. Bournemouth should have been out of sight yesterday before we even remembered to start playing.

We seem to be pinning our hopes on one good half of football against Chelsea, which we still managed to screw up.

We're Manchester United. We have the highest-wage bill in world football (or near enough). We have the manager who has won more than anyone else bar Pep. We should be absolutely distraught at the garbage run of form we've been in for almost a full year now.

I just don't understand those saying to stick with what we're doing.

Tbf that's an improvement from the days when our best hopes were pinned on 30min against Spurs in a game that we eventually lost 0-3.

 

[doriandun]

So correct me if I'm wrong - we've won what, 3 of the last 9 matches? And 2 of those required almost last minute winners to dig us out of poor positions? And that was against Bournemouth and Newcastle?

Jesus wept standards have fallen.

We've gotten bossed for long chunks of every match we've played in the last 10 I'd say. Bournemouth should have been out of sight yesterday before we even remembered to start playing.

We seem to be pinning our hopes on one good half of football against Chelsea, which we still managed to screw up.

We're Manchester United. We have the highest-wage bill in world football (or near enough). We have the manager who has won more than anyone else bar Pep. We should be absolutely distraught at the garbage run of form we've been in for almost a full year now.

I just don't understand those saying to stick with what we're doing.

If for three quaters of your life you lived a a millionaire, with all kinds of riches, and one day a decision you made or circumstances forced you to succumb to a loss of all your personal belongings and money, and as a result become homeless and living on the street, you can not continue to live in the cloud and your accustomed lifestyle, you must face the reality, tackle the problem head on and build from scratch and work your way back up.

What you need to understand that you have to apply patience as there will always be unsuspected roadblocks and setbacks.

 

[RedRover]

We may well be 9 points behind before the end of the weekend but there is a lot of football to be played between now and the end of the season. City won't get the same point haul they got last year, Liverpool and Chelsea won't sustain all season. We shouldn't be worrying about anyone or looking up the league to see how far away we are. Win the games that are put in front of you and nothing else matters.

I can only remember one season under SAF where we didn't start slow and I believe we had quite a blip at the end of October/early November that year.

This obsession with being the first to call something or write something off is incredibly tiresome. I wonder how some of you make it out of bed in the morning.

Bolded part, we've played well of late, exciting football and last minute winners which most of the Caf was crying out for a month or so ago. Our league position leaves something to be desired but if we keep winning that is irrelevant today.

There is lots of football to play but 9 points is a huge gap. City look as cohesive as ever and Liverpool have addressed weaknesses in their squad. There is no reason they can't challenge.

The bold part I just don't understand at all. Looking at the teams at the top is exactly what United should be doing and working out why they're there and United aren't.

I'm not writing off the season and I don't see many on here who are. I'm making the point that a manager of Mourinho's experience, after three years and substantial sums of money should be making a better fist of this than he is. Its as simple as that.

If you think we're improving then fair enough. I disagree. The defence looks awful and other than for relatively short spells in games we look tumescent, uninspiring and slow. When we take the handbrake off and players up the tempo we look much better - often at the price of looking even more shaky at the back.

I watched the Arsenal game last night and it frustrated me. Emery has, in a matter of months with relatively little to spend and a squad which is (in my view) fairly average as far as top clubs go, got his team playing a high-pressing, fast-attacking game which the players obviously buy into and which forms a good basis for them to kick on. We seem to lack any kind of identity and at the moment, are getting by on moments of quality from a few players.

The club has issues above Mourinho, that's clear, but at the moment, on the pitch I believe we're treading water. I don't see anything to suggest we're about to turn a corner and as it stands, I'd be surprised if we made top 4.

Its only my opinion but Mourinho has a look of a man who is watching the game pass him by. His style has hardly changed since he came to the PL when he was the new blood with new ideas. The game has moved on in the last decade and I wonder whether he can deal with that, other than by reverting to type (as he did against Allegri's Juventus) and parking the bus. Whilst those kind of tactics have their place, I personally think that at home in the group stages of the CL, United should be better than that.

 

[RedRover]

So correct me if I'm wrong - we've won what, 3 of the last 9 matches? And 2 of those required almost last minute winners to dig us out of poor positions? And that was against Bournemouth and Newcastle?

Jesus wept standards have fallen.

We've gotten bossed for long chunks of every match we've played in the last 10 I'd say. Bournemouth should have been out of sight yesterday before we even remembered to start playing.

We seem to be pinning our hopes on one good half of football against Chelsea, which we still managed to screw up.

We're Manchester United. We have the highest-wage bill in world football (or near enough). We have the manager who has won more than anyone else bar Pep. We should be absolutely distraught at the garbage run of form we've been in for almost a full year now.

I just don't understand those saying to stick with what we're doing.

Good post.

 

[Kag]

So correct me if I'm wrong - we've won what, 3 of the last 9 matches? And 2 of those required almost last minute winners to dig us out of poor positions? And that was against Bournemouth and Newcastle?

Jesus wept standards have fallen.

We've gotten bossed for long chunks of every match we've played in the last 10 I'd say. Bournemouth should have been out of sight yesterday before we even remembered to start playing.

We seem to be pinning our hopes on one good half of football against Chelsea, which we still managed to screw up.

We're Manchester United. We have the highest-wage bill in world football (or near enough). We have the manager who has won more than anyone else bar Pep. We should be absolutely distraught at the garbage run of form we've been in for almost a full year now.

I just don't understand those saying to stick with what we're doing.

Spot on.

Apparently some can see progress. I can’t. Not one bit.

 

[crossy1686]

There is lots of football to play but 9 points is a huge gap. City look as cohesive as ever and Liverpool have addressed weaknesses in their squad. There is no reason they can't challenge.

The bold part I just don't understand at all. Looking at the teams at the top is exactly what United should be doing and working out why they're there and United aren't.

I'm not writing off the season and I don't see many on here who are. I'm making the point that a manager of Mourinho's experience, after three years and substantial sums of money should be making a better fist of this than he is. Its as simple as that.

If you think we're improving then fair enough. I disagree. The defence looks awful and other than for relatively short spells in games we look tumescent, uninspiring and slow. When we take the handbrake off and players up the tempo we look much better - often at the price of looking even more shaky at the back.

I watched the Arsenal game last night and it frustrated me. Emery has, in a matter of months with relatively little to spend and a squad which is (in my view) fairly average as far as top clubs go, got his team playing a high-pressing, fast-attacking game which the players obviously buy into and which forms a good basis for them to kick on. We seem to lack any kind of identity and at the moment, are getting by on moments of quality from a few players.

The club has issues above Mourinho, that's clear, but at the moment, on the pitch I believe we're treading water. I don't see anything to suggest we're about to turn a corner and as it stands, I'd be surprised if we made top 4.

Its only my opinion but Mourinho has a look of a man who is watching the game pass him by. His style has hardly changed since he came to the PL when he was the new blood with new ideas. The game has moved on in the last decade and I wonder whether he can deal with that, other than by reverting to type (as he did against Allegri's Juventus) and parking the bus. Whilst those kind of tactics have their place, I personally think that at home in the group stages of the CL, United should be better than that.

I hear a lot of what you're saying and some of it is valid but some of it is thinking within a narrow scope.

We shouldn't be looking at the likes of Liverpool and City just yet, especially not this season anyway, maybe in a season or two more. City and Liverpool (Arsenal and Chelsea also) have appointed managers who have a set style and those managers have been supported with whatever they need to gain success within that style.

Us on the other hand, have thrown our selves into a self inflicted transitional period because we backed our manager for two seasons and let him do everything his way, then despite finishing second, winning trophies and appearing in finals, we told him to stop doing things his way and start copying the way the likes of Liverpool and City play because that's what our fans want, apparently, exciting football.

Mourinho has spent a lot of money on a team he was assembling to be a Mourinho team, that project has been cut short and now he has to build a 'Pep' or 'Klopp' team. Do you not think both those managers would also need to reinvest in different players if they were to change their playing style too?

We're now in a position where Mourinho is trying to rebuild a team that was built to play a different way, this will take time and new personal to achieve. The fact the board have asked him to do this and then not back him in the summer is piss poor also. If they decided not to back him they should have just fired him instead.

I'm not absolving anyone from blame here, I think we should have appointed Jose as manager right after Fergie when he would have been more willing to come in a change his ways. I think this season will be his last with us no matter what and he is accountable for some of the things you mentioned but not everything.

The players need to have a good hard look at themselves also. They're on the highest wages in the world some of them and they can't even put a shift in. I'd gladly be molested on a daily basis to earn that kind of money and play for United, regardless of the manager and his philosophies.

Lastly, the board are a disgrace for letting us slowly turn into the old Liverpool. Piss poor management and planning. A fish rots from the head down don't forget.

 

[Stactix]

I hear a lot of what you're saying and some of it is valid but some of it is thinking within a narrow scope.

We shouldn't be looking at the likes of Liverpool and City just yet, especially not this season anyway, maybe in a season or two more. City and Liverpool (Arsenal and Chelsea also) have appointed managers who have a set style and those managers have been supported with whatever they need to gain success within that style.

Us on the other hand, have thrown our selves into a self inflicted transitional period because we backed our manager for two seasons and let him do everything his way, then despite finishing second, winning trophies and appearing in finals, we told him to stop doing things his way and start copying the way the likes of Liverpool and City play because that's what our fans want, apparently, exciting football.

Mourinho has spent a lot of money on a team he was assembling to be a Mourinho team, that project has been cut short and now he has to build a 'Pep' or 'Klopp' team. Do you not think both those managers would also need to reinvest in different players if they were to change their playing style too?

We're now in a position where Mourinho is trying to rebuild a team that was built to play a different way, this will take time and new personal to achieve. The fact the board have asked him to do this and then not back him in the summer is piss poor also. If they decided not to back him they should have just fired him instead.

I'm not absolving anyone from blame here, I think we should have appointed Jose as manager right after Fergie when he would have been more willing to come in a change his ways. I think this season will be his last with us no matter what and he is accountable for some of the things you mentioned but not everything.

The players need to have a good hard look at themselves also. They're on the highest wages in the world some of them and they can't even put a shift in. I'd gladly be molested on a daily basis to earn that kind of money and play for United, regardless of the manager and his philosophies.

Lastly, the board are a disgrace for letting us slowly turn into the old Liverpool. Piss poor management and planning. A fish rots from the head down don't forget.

I'm sorry but that's quite a baffling post.
The BOARD have not told Mourinho to play like Pep's side, Utd get dominated regularly in possession. Nor Klopps style, don't press much at all.
Mourinho had a temper tantrum when he didn't get any CB's so he threw his CB's under the bus on a regularity. Of course their form is going to hit rockbottom.
Instead of just getting on with it like Poch who didn't get any signings. He threw a tantrum and the team went downhill.
Until the Newcastle game, this season was rock bottom. Could of been fighting relegation over top 4 the way things were going. He was having bustups with Pogba, Martial.

He hasn't changed his style.. stop finding new excuses to defend him. He had a meltdown and the team paid the price for it.
It's not like they got beat by West Ham trying to play gegenfeckingpressing, they sat back with 5 defenders and 2 DM's, with MCTOM at the fecking back too. Shipped 3 goals while cramped in the penalty box.

Arsenal & Chelsea barely invested in the summer, new manager surely he needs time to adjust the team to meet his needs? Especially when Arsenal finished 6th last season, didn't Utd finish 2nd?
He's had 2.5 years, Utd have gone backwards. Mourinho has never lasted more than 3 years & 1 month. Sacked in September in his 4th season at Chelsea.

Things have started to stablise but this team is still miles off the first season/ 2nd season first half.

It's truly incredible, 3rd season 400mill spent but he needs 'time'. Just to remind you, this is Mourinho he has never needed longer than 1 season to succeed. That won't change. First & Second season was his highs, it's incredibly unlikely that'll he'll reach those heights again with us.
Worst start to a Premier League season ever, even worse than Moyes and that's certainly not because the board told Mourinho he needed to play Gegenpressing.

 

[WensleyMU]

So correct me if I'm wrong - we've won what, 3 of the last 9 matches? And 2 of those required almost last minute winners to dig us out of poor positions? And that was against Bournemouth and Newcastle?

Jesus wept standards have fallen.

We've gotten bossed for long chunks of every match we've played in the last 10 I'd say. Bournemouth should have been out of sight yesterday before we even remembered to start playing.

We seem to be pinning our hopes on one good half of football against Chelsea, which we still managed to screw up.

We're Manchester United. We have the highest-wage bill in world football (or near enough). We have the manager who has won more than anyone else bar Pep. We should be absolutely distraught at the garbage run of form we've been in for almost a full year now.

I just don't understand those saying to stick with what we're doing.

Bits in bold. Did you follow United under Fergie back in the day? If so, perhaps you should rethink this statement as if its a negative attribute.

And as has been stated many times, from Jan to the end of the season, only City and Spurs took more points than we did. 38 points from 18 games.

 

[hurricane thunderclap]

We cannot win the league , we will not win the European cup and we might have a chance of the F.A Cup. The team will have to win more games and play a helluva lot better to ensure a top six finish (duh). We have a wealth of former glories and a history of dominance over a period of successive years , seemingly an unstoppable juggernaut.
We are the new Liverpool , always our year next year , Jose just doesn't understand how to use the wealth of attacking talent we have (is there any other team so slow on the counter attack and/or build up than us?)
Still, who is there available to turn us around?

 

[redshaw]

Jose could've won a title or two with us if he took over after Fergie. The Abu Dhabi Pep combo of now is hard to overcome for anyone who comes in. Best coach plus the ability to replace signings who don't work and have so much attacking cover.

I doubt Liverpool can keep the pace by Dec/Jan like we couldn't last season.

 

[Canagel]

Mourinho can see the problems we have I'm sure. It's not that he can't see them it's just that he doesn't know how to fix it. I'm watching the re run of the game and it's amazing how easy Bournemouth were passing it around our players with no pressure at all from us to press them.
The team must know how to control the pace of games and control the tempo but also to move the ball quickly and with purpose. Players seem to play without any urgency and once your that comfortable you're in trouble. We are always exposed every time the ball is lost. The fullbacks push forward on the touchlines, Pogba is marked, Martial is marked, Mata is central and there's no one on the RW. We try to pass to one of the forwards the pass gets cut out ,Matic is too slow to cover whilst Smalling and Lindelof are too far back. There's a massive gap that one pass into the channels can take our whole team out. We need to sort out defensive game out. It's not good enough.

In the 2nd half we improved but Bournemouth opened us twice and DDG had to be concentrated.

 

[RedRover]

I hear a lot of what you're saying and some of it is valid but some of it is thinking within a narrow scope.

We shouldn't be looking at the likes of Liverpool and City just yet, especially not this season anyway, maybe in a season or two more. City and Liverpool (Arsenal and Chelsea also) have appointed managers who have a set style and those managers have been supported with whatever they need to gain success within that style.

Us on the other hand, have thrown our selves into a self inflicted transitional period because we backed our manager for two seasons and let him do everything his way, then despite finishing second, winning trophies and appearing in finals, we told him to stop doing things his way and start copying the way the likes of Liverpool and City play because that's what our fans want, apparently, exciting football.

Mourinho has spent a lot of money on a team he was assembling to be a Mourinho team, that project has been cut short and now he has to build a 'Pep' or 'Klopp' team. Do you not think both those managers would also need to reinvest in different players if they were to change their playing style too?

We're now in a position where Mourinho is trying to rebuild a team that was built to play a different way, this will take time and new personal to achieve. The fact the board have asked him to do this and then not back him in the summer is piss poor also. If they decided not to back him they should have just fired him instead.

I'm not absolving anyone from blame here, I think we should have appointed Jose as manager right after Fergie when he would have been more willing to come in a change his ways. I think this season will be his last with us no matter what and he is accountable for some of the things you mentioned but not everything.

The players need to have a good hard look at themselves also. They're on the highest wages in the world some of them and they can't even put a shift in. I'd gladly be molested on a daily basis to earn that kind of money and play for United, regardless of the manager and his philosophies.

Lastly, the board are a disgrace for letting us slowly turn into the old Liverpool. Piss poor management and planning. A fish rots from the head down don't forget.

What is that deduction based upon? Does Mourinho strike you as a man who'll be told how to do his job by "non-footballing" people above him? I don't believe that for a second. He is the ultimate ego. Frankly, I think its far more likely that as a very intelligent man he can see very clearly that his tried and tested style - which was effective without always being pretty is now not even effective.

Even assuming you're right, if Jose Mourinho, at his level of experience has spent the best part of three years and £350 plus million building a team and developing a style of play which he now has to dismantle and rebuild in the image of another manager to challenge at the top of the PL then it is an ultimate and epic failure on his part. The very top managers drive change in the game, they see trends and innovate - like he did in his early years at Chelsea, they don't chase others and try and copy.

The simple fact is supposedly lesser managers are building better teams in a shorter space of time with less money. The suggestion that Klopp, Emery or Sarri has had an easier job to do I just don't accept. Pep has had mega money, which obviously is a major catalyst but look at how he has those players playing his style. He also improves his players through coaching.

For the record I wanted Mourinho here. I don't like the sideshow he brings, I think he is rude, arrogant and generally a bit of a prat, but I thought he would get results and make us competitive again. I don't expect champagne football or it to be raining trophies but I would expect, by now that he would have instilled in the players a style of play which they understood and which was cogent and coherent. I would also expect that teams would be frightened to play us, which at the moment they aren't since they've seen us played off the park by average sides for long spells throughout the season.

The board may well have a lot to answer for but that doesn't get Mourinho off the hook in my opinion.

If you think it's going to get better then fair play. I see little evidence of it but I hope you're right because I don;t think the board have the bottle to move him on before the end of the season.

 

[Leftback99]

The way I see it, since the Newcastle game there hasn't been that much to complain about, the issue is we're on catch up for what happened before then.

The defence clearly isn't good enough but not much can be done about that until January. The lack of quality defenders had been compounded by bad line up decisions in the following games which could have easily been avoided:

Brighton Away - starting Bailly and Lindelof over Smalling. Murray dominated them.
Spurs Home - A back 3 with Herrera.
West Ham Away - A back 3 with McTominay.

We seem to have a settled back 4 now which currently need more protection from the midfield until we can improve on both.

I'm sure every one will be calling for his head when we lose to Juve and City but its not going to happen and nor should it at this stage.

 

[EwanI Ted]

The way I see it, since the Newcastle game there hasn't been that much to complain about, the issue is we're on catch up for what happened before then.

Not sure I’d agree there. I’d say the first halfs against Chelsea, Juve and Bournmouth were all pretty woeful.

 

[X0X Tan]

Mourinho won the most trophy for all the rest of managers combine. He is the best now in the EPL. No one is better than him I am sure, he can play boring game but in the end of the day, he won us trophy, I am trophy seeker, I do not care if we play extremely defensive.

Go Go Mourinho, we should give up on the league and C.L focus on FA cup or European cup ( if we finished 3rd in the CL) forget about the league, Man city are too strong for us.

 

[Leftback99]

Not sure I’d agree there. I’d say the first halfs against Chelsea, Juve and Bournmouth were all pretty woeful.

All 3 were difficult fixtures against in form sides. We can't expect to out play everyone for 90 minutes, especially with the current defence.

 

[EwanI Ted]

All 3 were difficult fixtures against in form sides. We can't expect to out play everyone for 90 minutes, especially with the current defence.

This is a common fallacy among football fans, that the only good performance is when youre on the front foot and making chances. Truth is, in every game the opposition will have at least a spell where they're on the front foot, but its still possible to play well at that point in the game. That's partly about defending your box, but its also about working hard across the pitch, maintaining your poise in possession when you get the chance and offering something on the counter attack. We did none of these things, instead we completely lost our heads or just stood there like showroom dummies.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

What is that deduction based upon? Does Mourinho strike you as a man who'll be told how to do his job by "non-footballing" people above him? I don't believe that for a second. He is the ultimate ego. Frankly, I think its far more likely that as a very intelligent man he can see very clearly that his tried and tested style - which was effective without always being pretty is now not even effective.

Even assuming you're right, if Jose Mourinho, at his level of experience has spent the best part of three years and £350 plus million building a team and developing a style of play which he now has to dismantle and rebuild in the image of another manager to challenge at the top of the PL then it is an ultimate and epic failure on his part. The very top managers drive change in the game, they see trends and innovate - like he did in his early years at Chelsea, they don't chase others and try and copy.

The simple fact is supposedly lesser managers are building better teams in a shorter space of time with less money. The suggestion that Klopp, Emery or Sarri has had an easier job to do I just don't accept. Pep has had mega money, which obviously is a major catalyst but look at how he has those players playing his style. He also improves his players through coaching.

For the record I wanted Mourinho here. I don't like the sideshow he brings, I think he is rude, arrogant and generally a bit of a prat, but I thought he would get results and make us competitive again. I don't expect champagne football or it to be raining trophies but I would expect, by now that he would have instilled in the players a style of play which they understood and which was cogent and coherent. I would also expect that teams would be frightened to play us, which at the moment they aren't since they've seen us played off the park by average sides for long spells throughout the season.

The board may well have a lot to answer for but that doesn't get Mourinho off the hook in my opinion.

If you think it's going to get better then fair play. I see little evidence of it but I hope you're right because I don;t think the board have the bottle to move him on before the end of the season.

Lets look at Liverpool: Klopp bought Karius in 2016, only to spend £56m on his replacement only 2 summers after. he bought Oxlade for £35m but the guy cant make the starting XI. he has also bought keita, Fabinho and Shaqiri for combined £100m+ but none has yet proven to be a starter.

One key difference from us is that, most often than not, they seem to have gotten better prices for their targets. Liverpool bought Mane for £30m, about the same price we paid for a teenage Luke Shaw from the same Southampton club. They bought Salah for £34m while we paid £75m+ for Lukaku. (BTW same Salah had been spotted by Mourinho when Chelsea played against Basel and bought him for £15m ). Robertson was bought from Hull for £8m, a price I doubt we would get if we were interested. Even their £56m for Alisson seems fair considering chelsea paid much more for Kepa.

Still, the most important factor though is that even with all the transfers and spending, Klopp has not won a single thing. In 3 seasons he has finished 8th, 4th and 4th, and yet their fans and management are not crying for his head over it.

It is much easier to play attacking and entertaining football if you are not obligated to win anything - Wenger did it for years!

 

[Mainoldo]

Lets look at Liverpool: Klopp bought Karius in 2016, only to spend £56m on his replacement only 2 summers after. he bought Oxlade for £35m but the guy cant make the starting XI. he has also bought keita, Fabinho and Shaqiri for combined £100m+ but none has yet proven to be a starter.

One key difference from us is that, most often than not, they seem to have gotten better prices for their targets. Liverpool bought Mane for £30m, about the same price we paid for a teenage Luke Shaw from the same Southampton club. They bought Salah for £34m while we paid £75m+ for Lukaku. (BTW same Salah had been spotted by Mourinho when Chelsea played against Basel and bought him for £15m ). Robertson was bought from Hull for £8m, a price I doubt we would get if we were interested. Even their £56m for Alisson seems fair considering Chelsea paid much more for Kepa.

Still, the most important factor though is that even with all the transfers and spending, Klopp has not won a single thing. In 3 seasons he has finished 8th, 4th and 4th, and yet their fans and management are not crying for his head over it.

It is much easier to play attacking and entertaining football if you are not obligated to win anything - Wenger did it for years!

How much did Karius cost? Did anyone rate him like a De Gea it Kepa? The Ox basically lost his leg which is why he currently isn’t playing. I’d say yes they haven’t won anything but there coming off 20 plus years of not winning the title so I think there expectations are rightly below ours. After 3 years with Klopp they are in a better position than us both playing style and starting 11.