So you’d leave us with 3 shit centre backs while we search for new ones? And if two of them get injured?
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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So you’d leave us with 3 shit centre backs while we search for new ones? And if two of them get injured?
Has there? We’ve had some fun comebacks recently but we did last season too (Palace, City) and I don’t really see any change in our basic Plan A from last season tbh. I can’t recall many games where we’ve played high tempo attacking football apart from the off. We usually wait til we have no alternative.
I don't trust him to not revert to type when he feels in a more secure position. Big lump up front, functional football, waiting for mistakes.
Look at some of the interplay in recent games with Lukaku and Fellaini absent, a level of fluency that has been absent for most of his time here. Partly by choice, because he has had the players in the attacking areas to attempt a far more ambitious style than he has shown. Relying so heavily on guys like Matic, Fellaini and Lukaku has limited the development of the team. If backed I don't trust him to not just try to replace them with more effective versions of the same type, which will ultimately lead us to the same end.
I don’t think his comments prove anything the team plays defensively at the start of every game and whenever we take the lead and they clearly aren’t being coached to press or play with attacking freedom.
There is no evidence of any consistent game plan, it’s just small passages of play or moments from individuals.
I think his attitude has improved but have to question why he couldn’t do his job in the first place, the whole situation is just so unnecessary.
Outplay whom lol. They were 10 minutes from losing the game on their pitch.
The amount of drooling United fans are doing on every manager left, right and center is getting funny.
He said all the right comments before he joined Utd, look where we are now.
He's had much more successful periods in his tenure here, this current run of games is nothing impressive seeing as it 'surely' includes the incredible display against Juventus and Valencia.
His first season, this team was very difficult to beat, it would create scores of chances and at times the football was excellent. The issue was that the team weren't clincial enough, plenty of draws and not being able to hold on.
Second season, again we had much better runs of games than what we're currently having and for the first half of the season we were challenging, didn't last long mind but still.
There was even shouts that Old Trafford was becoming a fortress again.
So not sure how he suddenly becomes unsackable for a few wins, especially considering Bournemonth could of been 3-4 up within 20mins.
Lets not diverge from the point Im making which you should obviously understand.
Incase you didnt like your post suggests, allow me to elaborate for the less fortunate of us in comprehension and reasoning ability.
Arsenal were the better side, played with no fear, dominated possession and tried to win the game against an excellent in form liverpool side. Which is surprising considering the mentality, that you need the resources and time mentioned in my other post in order to do so.
I have seen nothing different in this Arsenal side than what we they used to put under Wenger except the last year. The run they put this season Wenger used to do many many times in recent years and that's how he was getting top 4 regularly yet no one was drooling over him. Wenger almost always started and ended the season on fire, Feb is the time their season usually got ruined both in the league and CL.
Yeah they were the better side but were going to lose the game on their pitch and needed a last 10 minutes equalizer to salvage anything. I guess if it had ended 0-1 Liverpool would have been pretty happy getting "outplayed".
We will see how the season plays out. But considering the change of manager and their performences you cannot argue that they are exceeding your expectations. Well mine at least. I am not biased enough to not appreciate that fact.
If they kept the same intensity the whole season, well they will, but at the moment as I said, they had similar starts for seasons under Wenger as well. That's not saying Emery is a bad manager per stretch btw, just putting things where they're.
For me Its not whether he goes or not,its about who we bring in to replace him.
I will be the first to admit that i haven't been a fan of his tenure with us but I am tempted to say if he scrapes top 4 i would keep him for one more season as long as he is backed fully by Woodward.
I will be the first to admit that i haven't been a fan of his tenure with us but I am tempted to say if he scrapes top 4 i would keep him for one more season as long as he is backed fully by Woodward.
It's not that complicated - the reason fans want Jose out is because -
Jose is more suited to getting the best out of players like Lukaku, Zlatan, Perisic, Willian, Matic, Fellani,Mcguire, Mctomminay, Sanchez the old LW, pogba in half his matches and anyone else who has good genetics. All these players suit each others game much more because they do alpt of the same thing.
You switch the team around then we have players like Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Sanchez the Cf or RW, Pogba on his more natural technical side, Pereira, Mata, Herrera, & you could argue alpt of our youth team look more suited to play football in this team (chong, gpmes) than the team above with felliani.
Jose after 3 years & 3 months have shifted from using team A as our main tactics & players whilst using team B as our squad rotation - to now using team B as our main team and then using team A as our squad rotation.
He has basically wasted 3 years to get to use something we already had - ditching his old plan because it was not backed by the board & rightfully so.
Jose is not the man to take team B forward - he has never managed a team like that, never managed a team without a target man and to expect him to suddenly be the best guy to coach such a team is pure delusional.
And its fairs enough - people might be like - well why don't we give the time for Jose to build team b out better 'we can't just assume that he will fail because non of his ex teams has incorporated such players' - the fact is I'd rather give a manager from Bournemouth or from our reserves time to build a team with these players because ultimately it is what they want to do & you can see it in Jose's ever worsening I DGAF about this team face - apart from a few goal celebratipns that anyone would do.
If Jose is to continue here then he should go & build team A - build a team that gets the best out of Lukaku & Fellani. He isn't the best man for team B.
Why alpt of our fans talk about other managers is because Pep, Klopp, Zidane, howe, ppchettino, would all attempt to get team B better & would have done so the moment they signed the contract. Instead we had a manager & the first thing he did was sign a 35 Yr old Ibrahimpvic & told martial & Rashford that they do nothhave the ability to be his forwards.
Jose is more suited to getting the best out of players like Lukaku, Zlatan, Perisic, Willian, Matic, Fellani,Mcguire, Mctomminay, Sanchez the old LW, pogba in half his matches and anyone else who has good genetics. All these players suit each others game much more because they do alpt of the same thing.
You switch the team around then we have players like Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Sanchez the Cf or RW, Pogba on his more natural technical side, Pereira, Mata, Herrera, & you could argue alpt of our youth team look more suited to play football in this team (chong, gpmes) than the team above with felliani.
Jose after 3 years & 3 months have shifted from using team A as our main tactics & players whilst using team B as our squad rotation - to now using team B as our main team and then using team A as our squad rotation.
He has basically wasted 3 years to get to use something we already had - ditching his old plan because it was not backed by the board & rightfully so.
Jose is not the man to take team B forward - he has never managed a team like that, never managed a team without a target man and to expect him to suddenly be the best guy to coach such a team is pure delusional.
And its fairs enough - people might be like - well why don't we give the time for Jose to build team b out better 'we can't just assume that he will fail because non of his ex teams has incorporated such players' - the fact is I'd rather give a manager from Bournemouth or from our reserves time to build a team with these players because ultimately it is what they want to do & you can see it in Jose's ever worsening I DGAF about this team face - apart from a few goal celebratipns that anyone would do.
If Jose is to continue here then he should go & build team A - build a team that gets the best out of Lukaku & Fellani. He isn't the best man for team B.
Why alpt of our fans talk about other managers is because Pep, Klopp, Zidane, howe, ppchettino, would all attempt to get team B better & would have done so the moment they signed the contract. Instead we had a manager & the first thing he did was sign a 35 Yr old Ibrahimpvic & told martial & Rashford that they do nothhave the ability to be his forwards.
Yes there has been.
A few comments from Jose and one or two players also indicate efforts are being made to change the way the team plays.
What the lads now need is to start every game well and play for 90 minutes while they also find the right attack-defence balance.
When he says rubbish, his comments prove everything but when he says something like they have been working hard on starting well and pressing despite the poor performance, his comments suddenly mean nothing? We have to be consistent in the way we assess Jose and this team. We can't pick and choose when his comments mean something when in reality, we are not mind readers. In football, there are many times teams don't play as the manager desires or trains the team to play for multiple reasons. This doesn't mean the manager is not be blamed, but it also means there are other factors worth considering in making the right judgement.
The teams not in great shape and needing luck in winning games against ordinary opposition. The purchases he's made have also struggled except Pogba. The old guard is mostly bailing him out. Sanchez, Bailly, Lukaku, Fred, Matic, Lindelof are all failing to justify the outlay made by the club. He should keep his own counsel when complaining about lack of spending.
It was good the board didn't let him buy more players to complete the team A like Willian, Aldwrweireld etc because I don't think we would be title challengers. And we would be left in a position where they'd need to be replaced after 1 season. Zlatan came and is already gone, Matic needs to be replaced already. It would've been a waste of the clubs money with no instant results either.
FFS. Do you think people want United to dominate every game and crush every time and only in that they find satisfaction? People complain about wins like today's is because, they see that their team is not improving at all, for 2.5 years the issues have remained the same, we cannot keep on winning games while playing like utter shite every first half. If there is gradual improvement, people would be analyzing that, today we got a lucky break in the last minute goal, you think we will get lucky every match? That's not possible at all.
Just to clarify (I've seen this in a few posts, where people are saying that Jose has been with us over 3 years): Jose has had 2.5 years, not 3.5 years.
First season, he finished 6th and 2nd season finished 2nd.
We are currently in his 3rd season.
Hopefully we should be in top 4, soon.
First season, he finished 6th and 2nd season finished 2nd.
We are currently in his 3rd season.
Hopefully we should be in top 4, soon.
And if Mourinho had his way, he wouldn't even be in the squad.
Exactly - I'm not going to back Woodward completely here *but he stood up for Plan B over plan A.
Whilst some people will say that Woodward doesn't know much about football - he realised too lately that Jose was the wrong man for Plan B. After LVG he should have got a technical based manager - which was his first mistake, and then he also made a mistake of going for players like Lukaku, Matic & Sanchez the LW - who fit type A football of Jose than the football I think Woodward himself wanted to see.
In fact thinking about it - the Sanchez transfer & his huge wages; you'd wonder if Woodward was expecting what the fans were expecting with Sanchez playing on the right & Martial on the left with either Rashford or Lukaku in the middle - I have a feeling Woodward gave up on Jose after seeing his clear bias & favouritism of certain players in certain positions.
Nah, don’t see it. Still seems to be the same disconnect between what he’s trying to do and what the team executes. Whether that’s personnel or coaching, the footballs just the same this season.
One of those lads is out of the team, and the other is probably Matic who is next in line to be dropped. Also Mourinho says a lot of bullshit, like he finally got Martial to accept his supposed role in the team, that McTominay is his player of the year.
So how do you explain his real madrid side that won la liga with record points and goal scored, and, even beat barcelona at the nou camp?
That team started CR7, ozil, di maria, benzema, alonso, khedira, Marcelo, ramos, pepe and arbeloa.
This is exactly what some expect though. Just look at the hysteria in the match day threads of we miss a chance, misplace a pass, the opposition does just about anything. If we havent won 5-0, had 80% possession, 30 shots at goal then we were shit, cowardly, embarrassing etc etc.
I wish this was an exaggeration but it's not. We've been the better side in each of our last 4 league games. Significantly improved performances when compared to Leicester, Brighton, West Ham and most notably, a clear change in attitude from the team. You would think though that we had lost all 4, been dreadful and were in a relegation battle if you read some of the tripe posted here. Why focus on the negatives when there are so many positives to enjoy in the past few games?
This irrational hatred of Mourinho from a small minority of fans is spoiling their enjoyment of football. Instead over analysing every fault.
All you have to do is open up a match day thread, a post match thread, this thread, the premier League game week thread or any number of threads to see it in action.
You are clearly exaggerating. The game week thread will definitely over analyze every thing because people are watching the game and are posting about the mistake the players make.
As for your 5-0, 30 shots on target, 80 % possession is clearly bullshit and you know it. Were we brave in the first half today? People just want to see our team play like a fecking team, they want to see gradual improvement in our gameplay, no one expects miracles with in a year. Take Arsenal for example, they got ripped apart by Liverpool last year, they were pathetic last year and were in a turmoil. Now a new manager comes and bought a decent GK and a CB and they are outplaying Liverpool and are in a 12 match unbeaten streak with 10 continuous wins, their passing and gameplay is improved very much, they are showing clear improvement and what are we doing ? We have gone backwards, we are still getting by with moments of brilliance and luck.
What did Jose say to Howe at the end of the match? It was just a quick remark and Howe just looked at him and just went on shaking everyone else's hand.
It really isn't bullshit. It should be and I wish it was like I wish these clowns who hope we lose games were a joke.
We haven't gone backwards either, weve had a period of poor form that we are now over coming. It happens.
I also think we should wait past the honeymoon period with Arsenal and Chelsea to be honest.
We haven't gone backwards either, weve had a period of poor form that we are now over coming. It happens.
I also think we should wait past the honeymoon period with Arsenal and Chelsea to be honest.
I smell a mourinho united fan boy. Papering over cracks. I asked before, I’ll ask again, how much more time, money should mourinho be given?
Can he be trusted? Do you you think he’s a capable of building a champions league winning side? How long would that take?
I want to understand the WHYs over why you keep backing mourinho and not able to see what a large majority are seeing?
Please, share with me those glasses of optimism, good sir!
I would assume he said something about us being lucky (to survive the first half).
Yeah, maybe. Just the way Howe looked at him was a little off. Perhaps he didn't quite hear what he said.
Can we put an end to childish jibes like this?
It is remarkable how much criticism the manager can get after a win.
I admit that I was happy to see him leave this time last month, but he has managed to turn the results around this last month.
The majority of people on here must be wanting us to lose every game just so Mourinho can get sacked.
Me saying the above must also make me a ‘Mourinho fan boy’, which is a pathetic term to use just because people are of a different opinion to the one’s wanting Mourinho gone.
I admit that I was happy to see him leave this time last month, but he has managed to turn the results around this last month.
The majority of people on here must be wanting us to lose every game just so Mourinho can get sacked.
Me saying the above must also make me a ‘Mourinho fan boy’, which is a pathetic term to use just because people are of a different opinion to the one’s wanting Mourinho gone.
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Fanboy is such a childish term. I'm a United fan, for better or worse. As I have said, as long as I see progress, then I will back the manager at that time. Similarly I won't trash players due to bad form. I understand that players, teams and managers can go through bad patches. I actually enjoy seeing how they deal with it. So far I think Jose and the players have done well after a poor start. It shows character and belief.
The rest of this season, enough to buy the CB he should have got in the summer just gone, at least.
Hes built 2 so yes, he's capable. Can he do it again? How long will it take? I don't know.
Ultimately, all the votes here, in, out, more time are representative of a tiny fraction of United fans. It's a lower number than the away fans who still sing his name so there needs to be perspective. Is it even 5% of this forum?
Fantastic post.
But the reality is that Martial is indeed playing like Jose wants. People saying he is not different are wrong IMO. His attitude is different, his defensive contributions and his off the ball movements have improved. Even the way he attacks has improved over the last season. It appeared like he was getting too one dimensional in the way he attacked but that has changed recently. And did anyone notice how he hugged Alexis for yesterday's assist?
I just think fans need to chill. The team has had a bad patch but what I perceive is it looks like they are all coming together and Jose is trying to change. In the past, he would have had a complete meltdown and once the pressure was on, adopted a totally defensive style to stop conceding goals and pick up points. And I totally love how he has been saying the right things about the players in the press even when Pogba seemed to burn him out there. I like the way things are evolving. Not as fast as I want but certainly gradually. I think this is the time for fans to really unite behind the team and see how things go this season.
Brilliant reply.
I sympathize with your philosophy. I've been spoiled as a United fan during our most successful period. The last several years have been really testing and we keep saying the club has lost its way , we don't attack, we don't have the character etc etc
You know what this club is also know for, at least in my lifetime? Something Sir Alex used to say all the time...we sure like to put ourselves in a position to do things the hard way. On most of those occasions it's been the duration of a match or a few of them before we pick ourselves up. We're now in a several year 'rut' and a bit of a spiral for sure, but I want to believe this is an extended test. And like yourself, I'm seeing glimpses of progress and that grit and definitely a sense of maturing as a team against a whole world against us. It really is straining but I'm putting my faith in a manager with a history of winning and admiration for our club even since his days in blue
We all know he will get sacked if we fail to make top 4. Even if we do make it which is highly unlikely I don't even want to think about him being here for another season. He was hired to make us challenge for the big trophies again not scrap for 4th every season. 6th his first season and EL saved his arse, 2nd the next because Chelsea and Arsenal were absolute crap, and now it seems very likely we will finish 5th or 6th again. Now no matter how some of you people try to twist and turn things around this is simply not good enough for a manager that was supposed to bring us back to the top again. He has been given 400m£ to spend stop defending his mediocrity ffs it's doing my head in.
True but another manager will make his own mistakes like lvg benching Herrera for eternity. Better the devil you know who has learnt from his mistakes
Yeah I agree. I can't really see any major shift in our style of play either. We, thankfully, have Shaw, Pogba and Martial who are all back in favour/playing well this season which has helped us to an extent. But this notion that we're being set up a much more attacking manner doesn't really mesh with what's happening on the football pitch.
Fair play to Mourinho and the players for a decent mini-run and some good second half performances. After went 2-0 down against West Ham, our season and the managers United career could have ended very prematurely. But everyone has rallied around for a good few results which has steered the ship at least somewhere near the track albiet still stray. I mean, I am praising us for avoiding a horrific season and currently only having a poor one, so there's that.
I personally still don't believe Mourinho is the man for the job. As long as he is the manager, I'll want us to win games and for him to achieve great things at the club. But I think he's a poor fit and unelss I see a genuine shift in terms of cohesion, player development and squad building, my faith in him remains low.
Where is the progress? That is the main problem, 2.5 later we still haven't improved at all, our passing, gameplay, defending nothing has improved. We are actually regressing this season compared to last season, none of the players have improved, the only good players are the ones who were shunned or thrown under the bus by Mourinho, who many fans have been crying to be treated fairly and hoped the team would be built around them.
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