I can't.
But I can show you plenty of managers who after 2 a bit seasons would be playing good football, give us an identity and just give us something to believe in.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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I can't.
But I can show you plenty of managers who after 2 a bit seasons would be playing good football, give us an identity and just give us something to believe in.
Irrelevant if they can't deliver the title.
Ok, so the people on the forum live on a different planet to those who go to matches? They aren't allowed in the Stadium?
I'm pretty sure you can't actively want us to lose and support the team at the same time. You do realise that I'm talking about a minority of spoiled brats who are over the top with their moaning. These aren't fans in my view.
Basically I'm a big believer in Jose and I get 100% why people want to cut loose right now and replace with ZZ. For some reason we decided to really test the 3 year curse by not backing him in the summer instead of kicking on as we all expected with a good window and generally a feel good factor around the club. There is no suggestion the owners have decided to tighten the purse strings as everyone focuses on Jose's past mistakes in the window or perhaps Ed's muddled role and his involvement in playing chief scout.....Did it stop with Di Maria whom LVG said he didn't want or is the very un-jose looking physical beast that is Lindelof another search for "value".....who knows but Jose does know he wanted in a replacement and perhaps he knew the gravity of not doing so deemed the Toby fee worthwhile...especially throwing in Martial who he doesn't rate and isn't playing for him anyhow. Instead Martial stays and festers and we have a man on the bench when we needed a CB starting. Whoever is the next manager we can't have Ed dictating players ins and out. I think ZZ would get time 3 years to stamp his authority on the team but how long would he be staying....long enough to see if Pooch can step up at spurs maybe....
Don't think we'll ever know if Jose could have kicked on because of the handling of the transfer window honestly.
Don't think we'll ever know if Jose could have kicked on because of the handling of the transfer window honestly.
I agree. Like I said before, this is what can happen when you're team has been among the best in the world for such a long time and then suddenly it falls. Now that they're realising it's not gonna be that easy to get back to that level, they're losing their shit.
Hi. Wolves supporter here. Thought I'd weigh in with a view from the outside.
City are the current benchmark and if you analyse what's happened since Fergie left, it's no surprise that you are not competing with them.
It looks to me that all your current problems stem back to the 3 seasons post-Fergie and pre-Mourinho.
You spent around £390m in those 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal on Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Martial (amongst others).
When Mourinho came in, he wasn't left with one player from those signings who would get into City's starting XI.
Over the same period, City spent less (around £295m), but recruited players like Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi.
So despite spending more, Mourinho was inheriting a first XI and squad already inferior to City's.
Under Mourinho, in the 16/17 season, 17/18 season and so far this season, you have spent around £400m. More than you spent in the 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal, but the way transfer fees have gone since 16/17 this is to be expected. If you compare the spending and factor in the inflation factors over that period, he's actually spent less than they did.
The signings under Mourinho have improved the overall quality of the first XI and squad. Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and Matic would all push to get in City's team when playing at their best. Bailley might too if he wasn't injured all the time.
But over the same period, City have spent £490m, buying in players like Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Jesus, Bernardo Silva, Ederson, Walker, Laporte and Mendy.
You were already behind City when Mourinho joined and since then, City have spent more money and spent it better. With Guardiola's proven ability to improve players, they are now much further ahead of you than they were when Mourinho took over.
For all his antics and rants, Mourinho is a realist and actually quite an intelligent bloke. He will know all of this already and would have identified that to close the gap on City, you needed 5 top players, with centre back being the biggest priority. So at the start of pre-season, he gives his list to Woodward in the hope of getting them through the door, but he ends up with Dalot and Fred. Meanwhile City spend £60m on a proven Premier League performer and former winner, widening the gap further.
Bottom line is the recruitment since Fergie left has been dog-**** and if you want to catch City, you need to either spend more than anyone has ever spent in PL history, or try a different, value-based approach like Leicester did and Spurs are doing.
At the moment you are doing neither. If I were Mourinho, I'd be ****ed off too.
That doesn't excuse his behaviour, but looking in from the outside I don't know what Woodward is trying to achieve? Why give Mourinho a new long-term contract if he wasn't going to back him?
Jose is angry because he wants to win and doesn't feel that the club (and Woodward) have the same ambitions. For the manager of the richest club in the world, that must be frustrating. There's no denying that Harry Maguire and Toby Alderwiereld at CB makes your team infinitely better.
Top 4 is the best you can hope for with this collection of players. No manager in the world could win the league with your current squad so I don't see what good sacking Jose will do? Without better players, what's the point?
City are the current benchmark and if you analyse what's happened since Fergie left, it's no surprise that you are not competing with them.
It looks to me that all your current problems stem back to the 3 seasons post-Fergie and pre-Mourinho.
You spent around £390m in those 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal on Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Martial (amongst others).
When Mourinho came in, he wasn't left with one player from those signings who would get into City's starting XI.
Over the same period, City spent less (around £295m), but recruited players like Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi.
So despite spending more, Mourinho was inheriting a first XI and squad already inferior to City's.
Under Mourinho, in the 16/17 season, 17/18 season and so far this season, you have spent around £400m. More than you spent in the 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal, but the way transfer fees have gone since 16/17 this is to be expected. If you compare the spending and factor in the inflation factors over that period, he's actually spent less than they did.
The signings under Mourinho have improved the overall quality of the first XI and squad. Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and Matic would all push to get in City's team when playing at their best. Bailley might too if he wasn't injured all the time.
But over the same period, City have spent £490m, buying in players like Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Jesus, Bernardo Silva, Ederson, Walker, Laporte and Mendy.
You were already behind City when Mourinho joined and since then, City have spent more money and spent it better. With Guardiola's proven ability to improve players, they are now much further ahead of you than they were when Mourinho took over.
For all his antics and rants, Mourinho is a realist and actually quite an intelligent bloke. He will know all of this already and would have identified that to close the gap on City, you needed 5 top players, with centre back being the biggest priority. So at the start of pre-season, he gives his list to Woodward in the hope of getting them through the door, but he ends up with Dalot and Fred. Meanwhile City spend £60m on a proven Premier League performer and former winner, widening the gap further.
Bottom line is the recruitment since Fergie left has been dog-**** and if you want to catch City, you need to either spend more than anyone has ever spent in PL history, or try a different, value-based approach like Leicester did and Spurs are doing.
At the moment you are doing neither. If I were Mourinho, I'd be ****ed off too.
That doesn't excuse his behaviour, but looking in from the outside I don't know what Woodward is trying to achieve? Why give Mourinho a new long-term contract if he wasn't going to back him?
Jose is angry because he wants to win and doesn't feel that the club (and Woodward) have the same ambitions. For the manager of the richest club in the world, that must be frustrating. There's no denying that Harry Maguire and Toby Alderwiereld at CB makes your team infinitely better.
Top 4 is the best you can hope for with this collection of players. No manager in the world could win the league with your current squad so I don't see what good sacking Jose will do? Without better players, what's the point?
Finally a thread with some positivity in it. Everywhere else i look, the doom and gloom mongers are out in full force. I mean i'm all for different opinions, but this 'sack Jose get Zidane' after three games in or comparing Mourinho with Trump and overall pure hatred is just boring and adds nothing to a quality discussion.
Just look at the first half against Spurs, that was more than decent. Of course we should have created more goalscoring opportunities in 90 minutes, but we showed massive improvements. I'm still disappointed with Pogba, helds too long on to the ball and he has the nous to be much more of a goal threat, but i'm confident we'll get it right.
Just look at the first half against Spurs, that was more than decent. Of course we should have created more goalscoring opportunities in 90 minutes, but we showed massive improvements. I'm still disappointed with Pogba, helds too long on to the ball and he has the nous to be much more of a goal threat, but i'm confident we'll get it right.
People who think Mourinho is the problem need a wake up call to the issues. There's no where to go from Mourinho, he's top quality and better options aren't available.
I wish Pep and Klopp fanbois on this forum could see this. Both of them binned their GKs whom they signed after 1 season, their replacements were at both the points world record fee for a Goalkeeper yet they don't see anything wrong with an ex-banker telling a serial winner like Mourinho that his targets aren't an upgrade on what we have? I mean like wtf? How blind do you have to be in Mourinho's hatred that you cannot see how things are being run here, a person with no footballing acumen is vetoing decisions of a manager and he's not even doing this in private. He's specifically briefing the journalists about it too!
Mourinho has to shoulder a lot of blame for the current situation but to lay it all on him is ludicrous, he's not the first manager to get signings wrong and he certainly won't be the last. If you do not trust the manager to spend your money wisely then fecking sack him instead of having him go through an entire season with personnel he doesn't trust. It's only ever gonna end up one way. Woodward has set him up to take the fall, fans have turned on him in space of few weeks and no one will question the judgment of Woodward when he inevitably drops the axe on him.
Well played! I nearly posted a similar thread myself. I'm alone amongst all the reds I know in still supporting Mourinho (inc my two brothers and Dad). My Dad thinks we're going to get relegated as "this team isn't as good as the one that went down in the 70s"!! Mourinho coveted this job for a long time, and he wont give up on it lightly. He's a clever man, with a great CV and the character (imo) to turn it around. I don't agree with some of his team selections and he doesn't help himself with some of his press conferences, but... I really want him to sort it out, and I'll be sticking by him
This place is slowly but surely becoming more like RAWK: Blaming the big bad media for picking on us, celebrating a 3 nil defeat at home because the team played some semblance of football for half an hour, thinking we will go on some sort of winning run even though all the evidence suggests otherwise, harping on about how many shots we had - only 5 on target, remember - after a 3 nil defeat, praising our managers meltdowns in the media. Seriously, what the actual feck...
Apparently Mourinho wasn’t at training today and everyone else was. He could of snuck in I guess.
Anyone else seen this? Sorry, can’t confirm.
Anyone else seen this? Sorry, can’t confirm.
Completely agree. People sometimes overestimate how much the manager can actually affect things. It seems that since Pep became succesful with City, people have started believing that he controls the players with a remote or something. Hence many lay all the blame on Mourinho.
Agree
This isn't like Moyes who didn't rock the boat publicly so was able to survive longer.. Mourinho is a toxic figure when things are going wrong. You don't want a bad apple like Mourinho rotting the club by sticking around too long.
No one is celebrating. People are just acknowledging that we played well in the first half. But yeah, let's just look at the negatives.
Of course, it's agenda driven. Pretty sure many of them are actively wanting us to lose.
Well yeah, sorry if I find it incredibly difficult to find positives in back-to-back defeats including a 3 nil humbling at home. As I said, shoe on the other foot and we had beaten Spurs away, their fans would be slated on here if they said some of the things are fans are saying. I find zero positives in what's happening at the club both on and off the pitch and I won't pretend otherwise.
I think you're a Reddit nononono viewer, whilst I'm a nonononoyes viewer. Joking aside, you really put in the effort to marginalise just how good a performance that first half was. We weren't clinical, that's a problem. And our defense imploded. Feel free to create a new depressing thread.
Absolute bollox. I'm sure if you look at his thread when he was appointed, most were delighted. As time goes on, things change. I was ecstatic to get him and up until this summer, he had my full support even though cracks were starting to appear. Now though, the situation looks irreversible. You seem to be the one with an agenda, to be perfectly honest.
I'm sure there are a handful that didn't want him, but by-and-large, it all felt positive at the time. Shock / horror, opinions change over time but yeah, just throw the 'agenda' card around, to try make your points look more valid.
Yeah we were amazing.... Just forgot the parts where we score and defend...
The problem is, sack Mourinho after the Burnley game and we can basically settle for the reality that we're probably going to finish about 8th this season.
Carrick and McKenna are nowhere near experienced or savvy enough.
Zidane will want to join in the summer, with a line drawn under this season and a 'warchest' of his own.
This season is going to be an even bigger write-off without Jose, for me. At least Jose might drag us into 4th.
Carrick and McKenna are nowhere near experienced or savvy enough.
Zidane will want to join in the summer, with a line drawn under this season and a 'warchest' of his own.
This season is going to be an even bigger write-off without Jose, for me. At least Jose might drag us into 4th.
For me the situation is kind of amusing because I support the MHR and the same thing happened with Jake White. Jake White is a difficult man to adopt, he is a bit rude, he thinks that winning is the only thing that matters and he is inflexible. There is no doubt that he improved the team and the club, he won the Rugby equivalent of the Europa League but failed to win the Top 4 or perform well in Champions Cup. In the end everyone wanted him out, the fans didn't really pushed for it but it wasn't a secret that no one really liked him despite the fact that he did a good job, everyone knew that he wasn't going to improve the team by much and that someone else was needed.
You know what the media is like. I’ve only seen a couple of sources, just wondered if anyone else had.Well, this confirms it then, he is gone
He was probably in a laundry basket
When a non-united supporter has more sense than most united fans ...
Good analysis and good post.
Zidane has nothing to lose now, there is no way Jose would be sacked if the board did not have a huge name to replace him!
His stock is huge, tripple wining CL Manager, relatively young in management terms and will probably have the support of all the United flair players, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Pogba, Rashford, Mata and Lingard.
Imagine a player turning round to Zidane and say what did you win as a player, the same thing happened with Hazard and Mourinho at Chelsea, because he's never played the game this generation of superstars have no fondness for pragmatic defensive coaches like Jose!
I didn't say all who are against Mourinho are agenda driven. I meant some of the ones who were against him from the start. And there's no question that some are actively wanting us to lose games.
Yeah that post by @WolfInSharp'sClothing is top drawer. There was another great post by a Brighton supporter too. There is a flexibility of thought and appreciation of context.
Must be a very small handful and not a representation of most who have formed their opinion over time.
Calling people agenda driven won’t win you arguments. It’s just petty and makes it look like you’re trying to validate your opinion over the people you disagree with. In this instance, the majority certainly aren’t agenda driven.
And it’s crazy that some can’t see it
And it’s crazy that some can’t see it
Go to the out thread. You're ruining the feng shui up in here.
Ha. When emotion for the team you love is taken out of the equation, it's easier to see the Wood(ward) for the trees.
LVG was an attacking coach, with possession style (I know it sounds crazy but this was his philosophy).
After Jamie Vardy single handedly destroyed our defenders, he went into his shell and we became defensive with possession style - which was ridiculously boring.
IMO, it's our defenders which are holding us back. If our midfielders venture forward for more than 10 seconds, our defenders shit themselves and are totally vulnerable to counter attacks.
We saw what happened when Vardy came on for LCFC a few weeks back - he scored quickly. Where were our defenders?
We saw what happened yesterday - 3 goals conceded and it should've been more. Spurs could've had a penalty and Dele Ali messed up that chance when he was 1v1 against DDG.
Our defenders suck and while this is the case, we can't attack with abandon, like people want. Our midfielders have to protect our defenders (who aren't good at defending).
A group of defenders who can't defend - there has to be a joke in there somewhere.
I think we need to stick with a defensive style and grind out results until the board agree to fund the purchase of Toby A.
I prefer this one.
I think I've read this line about a 100 times over the last few days here. It's the go to phrase isn't it. You know what, standards have fallen. Many times. They fell when we sold Ronaldo and didn't buy quality. They fell when SAF retired and we went on to create a circus. But over the last couple of years they've been raised. But you probably haven't noticed.
@VP89 is right, you're ruining the feng shui.
I haven't, no. Still shite football, still shite results, still miles away from Europe's elite.
Amen to that brother. I love this thread.
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