The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Random Task]

Might be the case but I don't see anyone else reacting like that. Throwing around personal insults and asking people if they're drunk. I play within the rules.

I personally think "fans" that only bring negativity and don't have a single positive thing to say about their club should be called out.

What you call negativity is another person's realism.

 

[Janson]

What you call negativity is another person's realism.

It is, but in reality it is negativity. And a result of being spolied, I might add.

 

[mark_a]

You won't read in the press that the Stretford End (or at least where I am circa W203) were singing "Mourinho's Red and White Army" after the final whistle.

 

[MUFC OK]

Won't solve anything, in fact we will likely go backwards without one of the best 3 managers in world football at the helm.

We need to look rationally at what's been going on here for the last 4/5 years. Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Young, Fellaini, Rojo, now Lindelof. These players have let us down so, so many times and been at the centre of embarrassing performances under Moyes, LVG and now Mourinho. A new manager will not be able to get them playing better and to the level we need. I don't care who it is, even Sir Alex would have cut losses on the above by now.

We have had 3 manager and multiple 'world class' or top quality players come in and out of the club (Ibra, Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Di Maria, Falcao, Matic) and quality young players like Rashford and Martial, all whilst having arguably the best GK in the world, yet the deadwood have been the one constant. Our soft core of substandard players who line up for us, week in week out, must be removed before we can expect to compete again.

 

[TMDaines]

You won't read in the press that the Stretford End (or at least where I am circa W203) were singing "Mourinho's Red and White Army" after the final whistle.

Actually, it's been pretty widely reported on TV and in print. It won't be the focus of the clickbait, but it is no secret either.

As much as Old Trafford is quieter than it used to be, our fans are generally held up as supporting our club well.

 

[mark_a]

....

We created plenty of chances. Conversing we forced Spurs to complete more unsuccessful passes than any other team this season, controlled the possession, territory and had more shots on goal than any team has managed against Spurs this season or last.

Frankly, we should have won. Of course we didn't, and that's an issue, but there's some pretty heavy revisionism going on here I think caused by the poor result.

Or translated - "For feck's sake, we were much improved and played really well against a Top 4/6 side but were unlucky to lose. Do you think our improvement to better football will happen overnight? In the ridiculous fake argument Boring/bad football plus results versus exciting football, don't moan when you get better football!"

Maybe

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Won't solve anything, in fact we will likely go backwards without one of the best 3 managers in world football at the helm.

We need to look rationally at what's been going on here for the last 4/5 years. Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Young, Fellaini, Rojo, now Lindelof. These players have let us down so, so many times and been at the centre of embarrassing performances under Moyes, LVG and now Mourinho. A new manager will not be able to get them playing better and to the level we need. I don't care who it is, even Sir Alex would have cut losses on the above by now.

We have had 3 manager and multiple 'world class' or top quality players come in and out of the club (Ibra, Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Di Maria, Falcao, Matic) and quality young players like Rashford and Martial, all whilst having arguably the best GK in the world, yet the deadwood have been the one constant. Our soft core of substandard players who line up for us, week in week out, must be removed before we can expect to compete again.

People are blaming Jose, but to me Pogba and agent plus Martial and his whining have definitely not helped things. Think their will they, won't they leave shenanigans have affected our transfer dealings. They have been a distraction.

 

[red4ever 79]

Lose on Sunday, and I would expect him to be gone Sunday evening. With everything going on I would say the situation is that delicate. Imagine starting the season with 3 losses out of 4, an unsettled playing squad and an in-house war between the Manager and the CEO

 

[mark_a]

Actually, it's been pretty widely reported on TV and in print. It won't be the focus of the clickbait, but it is no secret either.

As much as Old Trafford is quieter than it used to be, our fans are generally held up as supporting our club well.

Ta. I decided after this one I'd go on as much of a media blackout as I could! Though I'm fairly sure McNulty has written something empty seat related on the BBC

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Won't solve anything, in fact we will likely go backwards without one of the best 3 managers in world football at the helm.

We need to look rationally at what's been going on here for the last 4/5 years. Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Young, Fellaini, Rojo, now Lindelof. These players have let us down so, so many times and been at the centre of embarrassing performances under Moyes, LVG and now Mourinho. A new manager will not be able to get them playing better and to the level we need. I don't care who it is, even Sir Alex would have cut losses on the above by now.

We have had 3 manager and multiple 'world class' or top quality players come in and out of the club (Ibra, Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Di Maria, Falcao, Matic) and quality young players like Rashford and Martial, all whilst having arguably the best GK in the world, yet the deadwood have been the one constant. Our soft core of substandard players who line up for us, week in week out, must be removed before we can expect to compete again.

Like half of those guys rarely start. And I think only Lindelof started when we lost to Brighton.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

09:57
Mourinho's changes against Spurs made the players feel 'uncomfortable'
Mourinho made six changes to his side on Monday night with four of the players dropping out of the squad completely.

And a report in The Sun claims the changes made the players feel ‘uncomfortable’ and generated ‘tension’ in the dressing room.



So are these players perfectly happy to play it ultra safe rather than going on the attack? Is it they wanted to stick with Bailly and Lindelof?

 

[JPRouve]

I believe I have every right to judge some of the so called fans. It's a result of the state of this forum and all the fair weather fans we have on here.

If you think I create a bad atmosphere, just take a look at my posts in the Spurs match thread, and tell me in what way they differ from like 50% of the forum. I cheer my team on and don't jump to criticize anyone that makes a single mistake.

I would love to see how the atmosphere at our games would be if all the moaners on here went to a match.

They don't that's why your holier than thou attitude is amusing, I mean in the Spurs thread you called Herrera a clown, had a go at Martial even though he wasn't playing, called our defenders shit after praising them in the first half, that's not exactly positive and supportive.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

09:57
Mourinho's changes against Spurs made the players feel 'uncomfortable'
Mourinho made six changes to his side on Monday night with four of the players dropping out of the squad completely.

And a report in The Sun claims the changes made the players feel ‘uncomfortable’ and generated ‘tension’ in the dressing room.



So are these players perfectly happy to play it ultra safe rather than going on the attack? Is it they wanted to stick with Bailly and Lindelof?

A lot of people are going to say the players have downed tools or whatever. But, I really think the players are giving their best but, they are just really confused at this point. At this point going into the week they have no idea what lineup Mourinho will use, what formation, or what style they are going to attempt to play.

 

[Canagel]

Everyone seems to be blaming our defence but it is actually our attack that is the problem. We are simply not scoring enough goals. We will always concede but if we do not score goals then we will always lose. Lukaku had three chances to score in the first half. If he had even scored one we probably would have beaten Spurs. When you muss such chances then the morale goes down.

Of course. Lack of attacking shape or fluidity has been the biggest problem of recent years. We've been in the top 2 defensive records in the last two years but we've scored significantly less goals than any team from the top 6 in that period. If you struggle to create chances and score on a regular basis you will always be backed into a corner.

 

[MUFC OK]

Like half of those guys rarely start. And I think only Lindelof started when we lost to Brighton.

You don't get it, they can't all start but at least 2/3 have to start each week, people call them squad players but they are not, these are starters in their various combinations, all far from being good enough.

Last week Lindelof let us down, this week Jones should've conceded a pen, Lindelof was atrocious when he came on, Smalling disastrous for their 3rd goal. Covering/marking was non existent for their 2nd.. but its Mourinhos fault apparently? No manager could get a tune out of that list of players.

 

[dove]

09:57
Mourinho's changes against Spurs made the players feel 'uncomfortable'
Mourinho made six changes to his side on Monday night with four of the players dropping out of the squad completely.

And a report in The Sun claims the changes made the players feel ‘uncomfortable’ and generated ‘tension’ in the dressing room.



So are these players perfectly happy to play it ultra safe rather than going on the attack? Is it they wanted to stick with Bailly and Lindelof?

Neither. It's The Sun.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

You don't get it, they can't all start but at least 2/3 have to start each week, people call them squad players but they are not, these are starters in their various combinations, all far from being good enough.

Last week Lindelof let us down, this week Jones should've conceded a pen, Lindelof was atrocious when he came on, Smalling disastrous for their 3rd goal. Covering/marking was non existent for their 2nd.. but its Mourinhos fault apparently? No manager could get a tune out of that list of players.

But, he does not have to play any of them. You can easily come up with an 11 that does not include any of them.

 

[red4ever 79]

Team selection is all over the place, performances are all over the place. What sucks though is that the manager clearly has his favourites. If he is going down the road of dropping people are performed badly in the previous game then you would question why Pogba is playing, and for the next match you certainly would not expect to see Lukaku play?

 

[ivaldo]

Or translated - "For feck's sake, we were much improved and played really well against a Top 4/6 side but were unlucky to lose. Do you think our improvement to better football will happen overnight? In the ridiculous fake argument Boring/bad football plus results versus exciting football, don't moan when you get better football!"

Maybe

Well put.

 

[jymufc20]

I've firmly been in the Jose out camp since the CL exit. However, sacking him now will do more damage than good.

I think we should wait until it's mathematically impossible to make top 4.

We have tried that before though, what good does losing out on a champions league spot do us ?

We may aswell pull the plug now whilst there is still time to save our season.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I'm in the more time camp but not until January, for me the limit is one third of the season.

He gets 5 more games for me. I don't really want to see him sacked but that will be 8 games into the season and gives us 30 games to rectify the season if we are no better.

 

[Wumminator]

People are blaming Jose, but to me Pogba and agent plus Martial and his whining have definitely not helped things. Think their will they, won't they leave shenanigans have affected our transfer dealings. They have been a distraction.

But the reason they have been a distraction is because Jose has man managed them appallingly.

Listen this is what he does. We know this. Martial wouldn't have been treated the way he is by any other manager in the world.

 

[red4ever 79]

I dont get this top 4 nonsense. It's not like we have a chance of winning that competition. So we are in it for money? Well we didnt spend much this summer so we saved some there. If the club are not behind the manager then sack him now, and rebuild now. Dont waste anymore time.

 

[Janson]

They don't that's why your holier than thou attitude is amusing, I mean in the Spurs thread you called Herrera a clown, had a go at Martial even though he wasn't playing, called our defenders shit after praising them in the first half, that's not exactly positive and supportive.

Herrera directly caused us to concede, do you seriously find what I said strange in that situation? Of course one is going to react like that after such an obvious mistake. Did you see me complaining in the first half? In fact, what I did in the first half, praising Smalling and Jones only for simple tackles and things they've done well, is what I do in most match threads that I take part in. While 90% on here are bashing them.

If you would've paid closer attention, you would've seen that I have always stuck up for the players who constantly get scapegoated and shit on by people on here, ever since I joined. Players like, Lingard, Smalling, Jones, Young, Darmian, Rojo and Valencia. And even Lukaku and Matic have become punching bags by the entertainment brigade.

Yeah I admit that I don't like Martial, but that's the only players case I've been on really.

 

[dove]

Team selection is all over the place, performances are all over the place. What sucks though is that the manager clearly has his favourites. If he is going down the road of dropping people are performed badly in the previous game then you would question why Pogba is playing, and for the next match you certainly would not expect to see Lukaku play?

Every manager has his favourites, what's so strange about it? Certain players must always play not only for footballing reasons but for commercial as well. Do you think Ed will be happy to see Pogba on the bench?

 

[Janson]

@JPRouve I do admit that I complain a lot about people moaning but that's different to constantly bashing your own team. That's not supporting your club. I'm just fed up with these so called fans.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

But the reason they have been a distraction is because Jose has man managed them appallingly.

Listen this is what he does. We know this. Martial wouldn't have been treated the way he is by any other manager in the world.

To me Martial has not performed when he does get the chance. You get given the chance you better take it. He seems to get mentally stressed about just about everything. Pogba is remarkably immature who is being led by the hand by his agent and other clubs will have the same problem with him. He is not talented enough, even though he thinks he is, to carry a team, be the main man. He has to be in the perfect setup.

 

[Wumminator]

To me Martial has not performed when he does get the chance. You get given the chance you better take it. He seems to get mentally stressed about just about everything. Pogba is remarkably immature who is being led by the hand by his agent and other clubs will have the same problem with him. He is not talented enough, even though he thinks he is, to carry a team, be the main man. He has to be in the perfect setup.

Martial was literally performing last year before he was dropped for a massive signing that hasn't performed.

Pogba literally didn't have this problem at Juve or France. If the agent was going to be a problem why on Earth was he signed? Fergie got rid all these years ago, I've seen nothing to see that this was a bad decision.

 

[JPRouve]

@JPRouve I do admitt that I complain a lot about people moaning but that's different to constantly bashing your own team. That's not supporting your club.

I know that it's not the same but on a football forum where we want to interact with each others it's even worse than people not openly supporting the team. It has a direct influence on the mood of the forum while the posters that are different to you, that live their fanhood differently have very little influence, at worse they are similar to opposition fans who are welcome on this board.
I'm not trying to have a go at you, I just want to make the point that your approach contributes to the bad mood.

 

[Random Task]

@JPRouve I do admit that I complain a lot about people moaning but that's different to constantly bashing your own team. That's not supporting your club. I'm just fed up with these so called fans.

Judging people harshly whose perspective of the situation differs from your own is probably not the best way to go about it.

Just ignore the people you don't like, or better simply yet out-reason them.

 

[dove]

Martial was literally performing last year before he was dropped for a massive signing that hasn't performed.

Performed in 3 matches in half a season.

Pogba literally didn't have this problem at Juve or France. If the agent was going to be a problem why on Earth was he signed? Fergie got rid all these years ago, I've seen nothing to see that this was a bad decision.

Even Drinkwater performed playing alongside Kante. We all know Pogba can perform if he plays in a team filled with great players, what he can't do is be a leader.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Was last season's United side worse than the Chelsea team he won the league title with in 2014-15? I think they are pretty close, if not for City being imperious we might have nicked it.

FWIW at least a section of senior players seem to be firmly behind him. De Gea has been putting up some firm messages on social media indicating that and asking for support. It doesn't sound like a squad that wants the manager fired.

 

[royboy16]

A lot of people are going to say the players have downed tools or whatever. But, I really think the players are giving their best but, they are just really confused at this point. At this point going into the week they have no idea what lineup Mourinho will use, what formation, or what style they are going to attempt to play.

I think JM has downed tools.He looks out of sorts wiyhthout Rio.

 

[MoskvaRed]

If we lose against Burnley (meaning the title would be almost gone by the start of September), then I think the Board will be tempted to make a change over the international break. The key issues for me are -

1. Precedents - Mourinho has not previously in his career been able to reverse negative momentum. In fact, he has a tendency to start lashing out in such circumstances.

2. Lack of progress to date (beyond pure results) - while such a small sample of results as we have seen so far may not be a true reflection of where United stand, I find it unacceptable, in season 3, that he has bern unable to establish an identity for the team or a conception of his best XI. He compares very badly in this respect with his PL peers at the top clubs.

Replacing him will not of course solve underlying issues with United’s dysfunctional structure and the related problem of an unbalanced squad. If I were Zidane, I’d definitely skip this potential hospital pass and wait for PSG or Juve to come up. From United’s perspective, we need a thorough overhaul and there is no evidence from his RM days to prove that Zidane has the skillset for that role.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Martial was literally performing last year before he was dropped for a massive signing that hasn't performed.

Pogba literally didn't have this problem at Juve or France. If the agent was going to be a problem why on Earth was he signed? Fergie got rid all these years ago, I've seen nothing to see that this was a bad decision.

I'd say that Juve and France have the perfect midfield for him. Also Juve are especially dominant, so he didn't have the big price tag to live up to or the pressure to perform.

 

[meamth]

I just watched the videos from Fulltimedevils and stumbled upon this guy from 2:47..



I'm absolutely chuffed and inspired by that. Why can't everyone be like this guy? Let's all get behind the team.

 

[Janson]

I know that it's not the same but on a football forum where we want to interact with each others it's even worse than people not openly supporting the team. It has a direct influence on the mood of the forum while the posters that are different to you, that live their fanhood differently have very little influence, at worse they are similar to opposition fans who are welcome on this board.
I'm not trying to have a go at you, I just want to make the point that your approach contributes to the bad mood.

No worries, you're just commenting on what you observed. I can take some criticism without resorting to insults, unlike some others.

I get your point but I have a right to actively express my beliefs as an opposition, and yeah that might upset some people. I don't really agree that it's worse than not supporting the team, after all, that's why we're on this forum.
To constantly bash your team and not offer any semblance of support, I don't really see that as being a fan.

 

[Janson]

Judging people harshly whose perspective of the situation differs from your own is probably not the best way to go about it.

Just ignore the people you don't like, or better simply yet out-reason them.

That's good advice but sometimes you just can't help yourself. After all, we're highly driven by emotions.

 

[JPRouve]

I just watched the videos from Fulltimedevils and stumbled upon this guy from 2:47..



I'm absolutely chuffed and inspired by that. Why can't everyone be like this guy? Let's all get behind the team.

I'm sure that I talked about it but these comments reminded me something. Everyone that has played a team sport like Handball, football, Rugby or Basketball probably know that the worst thing that can happen to you is to doubt, when you do you second guess everything and it creates stupid mistakes, all players have a tactical and technical base, it's not that difficult to make them understand simple concepts regarding their position what is a lot more difficult is to make them trust themselves and their teammates under every circumstances.

That's the issue that I had with Moyes and that I have with Mourinho, it seems that neither are able to build the required base confidence, funnily enough despite all the rumours that we heard, players were a lot more confident under LVG. What is saving Mourinho is that he is generally good at evaluating players which means that we currently have a far better match day squad, our first 18 players are generally good individually but they play with little confidence and when they do it's superficial, they lose it at the first opportunity.

 

[Winrar]

Was last season's United side worse than the Chelsea team he won the league title with in 2014-15? I think they are pretty close, if not for City being imperious we might have nicked it.

FWIW at least a section of senior players seem to be firmly behind him. De Gea has been putting up some firm messages on social media indicating that and asking for support. It doesn't sound like a squad that wants the manager fired.

In some seasons 81 points would be enough to win the league. Leicester did so and so did we when we overtook Liverpool.