Oof that's pretty damning and what I've been worrying about. The people running the club have either lost sight of (or don't even understand) the values, culture and principles that make it the most successfully football club in the country.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Oof that's pretty damning and what I've been worrying about. The people running the club have either lost sight of (or don't even understand) the values, culture and principles that make it the most successfully football club in the country.
Think you need to hold fire until the three away games. Could easily be losses to Juventus and Man. City and Bournemouth is going to be very tough opponent with their style and present form.
We told him that the moment he came the best thing he could do is progress Rashford & Martial from LVG's hand - have a team that manages to get the best out of them.
However due to his complete ignorance and his inability to build a team that plays without his 24/7 15 year tactics - he bought Ibrahimovic & Lukaku.
These strikers playing by themselves may have the ability to score 20-30 goals a seaon but need the whole team geared towards getting the best out of one individul; at max 2.
Martial & Rashford can share the goal scoring burden between them whilst also having the ability to get the best out of players around them as we see with how players like Pogba play when the passing is quick and when there is space.
I thought we as a club would manage to use one of the few good parting philosophies of LVG - the importance of utilising the whole team to control the match rather than using one or two peoples individualistic ability.
Jose will continue to use players like Matic & Lukaku - players that play better when they have individual goals, targets and things that need to be done rather than be cohesive in a team,
What we saw today was basically what Jose had on the first day - with some general improvements with the likes of Pogba and a good performance of Lindelof and Fred. The building of the team has been geared towards the wrong way for 3 years & thank god Ed woodward saw this whilst some of the fans still want to see such lacklustre butch football.
Alderweireld, Willian, Perisic Mcguire players playing around to get the best out of individuals like Lukaku & Matic is not complex enough to play against even the mediocre teams in the PL anymore never mind win the league.
If he had just adapted his game to get the best out of martial & rashford by finding a player that could interlink them more instead of mata - we would be a better more progressive team now. Instead the guy insisted on a Clean slate, trying to convince everyone of players he did not rate as players that had mental or emotional issues.
Get Lost.
However due to his complete ignorance and his inability to build a team that plays without his 24/7 15 year tactics - he bought Ibrahimovic & Lukaku.
These strikers playing by themselves may have the ability to score 20-30 goals a seaon but need the whole team geared towards getting the best out of one individul; at max 2.
Martial & Rashford can share the goal scoring burden between them whilst also having the ability to get the best out of players around them as we see with how players like Pogba play when the passing is quick and when there is space.
I thought we as a club would manage to use one of the few good parting philosophies of LVG - the importance of utilising the whole team to control the match rather than using one or two peoples individualistic ability.
Jose will continue to use players like Matic & Lukaku - players that play better when they have individual goals, targets and things that need to be done rather than be cohesive in a team,
What we saw today was basically what Jose had on the first day - with some general improvements with the likes of Pogba and a good performance of Lindelof and Fred. The building of the team has been geared towards the wrong way for 3 years & thank god Ed woodward saw this whilst some of the fans still want to see such lacklustre butch football.
Alderweireld, Willian, Perisic Mcguire players playing around to get the best out of individuals like Lukaku & Matic is not complex enough to play against even the mediocre teams in the PL anymore never mind win the league.
If he had just adapted his game to get the best out of martial & rashford by finding a player that could interlink them more instead of mata - we would be a better more progressive team now. Instead the guy insisted on a Clean slate, trying to convince everyone of players he did not rate as players that had mental or emotional issues.
Get Lost.
By email or text?
The same way most of the fans begged for United CEO to get Jose to come here. It's clear from the way woodward himself is protective over players like Martial & Rashford that he isnt happy with the direction that Jose is taking this club. Whether Woodward can see football or not; I'm sure he wasnt told to come here and rebuild Chelsea 3.0 - his goal was to build up a progressive team with the players at his disposal. Something he has refused to do now for 3 seasons.
Everytime he does bend his back to do it - like the 352 formation we saw against Chelsea where rashford & Lingard ripped them apart or even the first half today; that was more in line of getting the best out of the players at his disposal. Not playing Martial & Rashford as the second coming of Willian and then crying about not getting perisic or whoever that manages to improve the output of one single target man. Such outdated football.
If true he's stating the obvious. Our senior members hold back the manager by putting far too much responsibility on him then denying him the opportunity to take on this responsibility.
If you want a manager you back him to the end, if you want a coach you create a setup behind the scenes for a long term vision. Our club does a mix of both, hire a manager and give him the keys to the team, then when he wants more backing you deny him to save money. Our long term vision is profit not trophies.
Imagine LVG talking about backing. If anything he was backed too much and because of the damage he did we are now cautious of letting strongheaded managers pawn off our talents and bring in duds like LVG did
I agree with everything you say but this - I dont think saving money is the reason the manager is not getting backed.
LVG stopped getting backed not because of Money; but because they were not happy with the type of football that was being played & ultimately had already decided to change manager - where we got Jose.
What happens with Jose? He is backed with money; but players like Lukaku and matic are favouritised over players like Martial, Rashford & Pogba (who are targeted to the media and made complaints of their mental attitude) whilst the football is largely counteractive and suited to a club that are playing as the underdogs.
Woodward didnt back Jose because of the football he wanted to play and the players he deemed was neccasary. There is absolutely no reason to go 65 million on the likes of Willian, Perisc & Aldeiweireld as it would only get the best out a player like Lukaku; not get the best out of the team. Jose has also bought Sanchez, Matic & both old players are already looking drained in their first to second seasons.
Woodward is not backing him because of the football and already has a manager tied up the same way LVG was not backed up. The managers need to be in a consistent line and goes with the reason that woodward himself wants a DOF before anything. We cant be going from a manager who plays football like LVG to a manager that plays football like Jose.
That shows the mistake of Woodward but also the inability of Jose to adapt his tactics to the players that was always at his disposal.
He’s still clinging on for now..
The Mourinho out brigade must be gutted today
Was wonderful actually to see an un-jose team in the first half and a jose team in the second that were possibly 10 mins away from getting a draw.
Don't think anyone is gutted that we won but we just know that it's only papering over the cracks and delaying the inevitable.Was wonderful actually to see an un-jose team in the first half and a jose team in the second that were possibly 10 mins away from getting a draw.
There wasn't a single moment in the second half where Everton looked even close to getting a draw.
They scored a penalty and then had nothong else. United should have scored after the penalty.
And this may be hard for you to grasp but do try... The first half side was picked by Jose...
Deep breaths now flower...
LVG wrong here. Absolving Mourinho. Yes we are too commercial but that doesn't excuse Mourinho's dire performances.
Also he wanted to sell Martial. Funny that the commercial 'CEO' was the one who stopped him.
We could do so much better with a proper coach for these players.
Also he wanted to sell Martial. Funny that the commercial 'CEO' was the one who stopped him.
We could do so much better with a proper coach for these players.
Was wonderful actually to see an un-jose team in the first half and a jose team in the second that were possibly 10 mins away from getting a draw.
Textbook cognitive dissonance. Both halves were Jose teams because shock horror he was coaching them. He must have done something really bad to your family for you to hate him so much.
That's okay - thats what you saw. We dropped instantly back deeper in the second half love and we lost control of the game except for a few counterattacking moves. I bet you love counter attack don't you sunshine?
Everton were much better in the second half; getting better as the time went on. It's okay though I dont watch football like you. Take care
We never dropped back, Lindelof and Smalling were stepping out all game ffs.
Trying to deflect from the fact that he's been woeful with the younger players so far. Very lucky one of these same players has been bailing him out. Doesn't want people to say 'why haven't you been playing him?'
Everton are a good team and, before resorting to sitting deep with the aim of kicking it up for Lukaku to hold up, we played some good stuff. Sure, Everton had their chances, but we could've scored a few today. This team is capable of so much more and I wish he'd set us up on a consistent basis to attack; regardless of the opposition. When we attack this team is capable of scoring past most.
The same way he was horrible to Charltons family. The guy is just not my type hun. Not even Cantona's. You were the type of fans begging for him to come here from the start so you still have dreams about him coming in and scraping a win and a title or two. I never had that ignorance from the start so I dont have the obligation to believe in him as much as you do
Perisic - Lukaku - Willian. YumThat much is obvious. You watch it looking for faults to criticise rather than to enjoy it.
And, Everton weren't much better in the second half. The Bernard chance and the penalty aside, the had and offered nothing.
They started the game well, aggressive and with some purpose. After that United were comfortable.
And I don't know a United fan who doesn't love counter attacking football.
Yes thats why I enjoyed the first half when we played without a target man and players like Martial & Rashford playing as forwards rather than wingers who hold the touchline whilst struggling to beat the fullback and attempt a cross in 24-7. Jose adapted his game today to something he could have done from the moment he came in. I'd have no faults if we continued to play like we did in the firs thalf. Second half we invitied much more pressure and our ability to play football on the ground became depleted with players like martial again holding the touchline and everybody else deeper to resort to counter attacking football again. Take care though.
The same way he was horrible to Charltons family. The guy is just not my type hun. Not even Cantona's. You were the type of fans begging for him to come here from the start so you still have dreams about him coming in and scraping a win and a title or two. I never had that ignorance from the start so I dont have the obligation to believe in him as much as you do
Incorrect, I have long maintained that Mourinho was the wrong appointment as he did not fit the possession style that we had recruited for under LVG. The time to get Mourinho was in 13/14 to succeed SAF as the team we had was more pragmatic team that would fit his style.
Its obvious that you speak with a lot of emotion since you dislike a man that you don't even know personally, have a good day
Incorrect, I have long maintained that Mourinho was the wrong appointment as he did not fit the possession style that we had recruited for under LVG. The time to get Mourinho was in 13/14 to succeed SAF as the team we had was more pragmatic team that would fit his style.
Its obvious that you speak with a lot of emotion since you dislike a man that you don't even know personally, have a good day
That was about you who matters nothing to Manchester United Football Club - I was talking about Jose and what he manages to get out of his current players and what he wants us to do so we as a club improve.
Still should go.
Nothing I saw today would change my mind about the need for him to go. All the bright spots, a freed up Pogba, a fluid front three, were things the fans were saying should have been done ages ago. So how much credit can you really give.
Our most dangerous player, by far, looks Martial. But we all already knew that. This is a player that would've been sold in the summer if Jose had had his way, and the much maligned Woodward hadn't vetoed any sale.
Our most dangerous player, by far, looks Martial. But we all already knew that. This is a player that would've been sold in the summer if Jose had had his way, and the much maligned Woodward hadn't vetoed any sale.
You are just rambling now, you said the following: You were the type of fans begging for him to come here from the start so you still have dreams about him coming in and scraping a win and a title or two. I never had that ignorance from the start so I dont have the obligation to believe in him as much as you do
I was not begging for him to come here, I didn't even want him here because his style is the very opposite to LVG. I have no such obligation to believe in him as evidence by me saying many times that I want him to be sacked as he has taken us backwards from last season.
I said last season that he should improve to stay in the job. We have gotten worse and so I have said this season that he should get sacked. Simple and logically consistent.
You can't have Mata at RW and call it a fluid front three. Matic and Mata are the ones most culpable for constantly killing our attacks with their poor vision, back passes and lack of pace.
If McKenna was manager, I'm sure we'd be more adventurous, direct and using our pace and energy to press high.
Martial Rashford Chong
Pogba Fred
Pereira
Pogba Fred
Pereira
That is not surprising although LVG can't complain because his signings were very poor.
I do think the club structure needs to change.
Nope! We won 3 points is what matters.
Nah, he won't be here next season
Can he somehow get sacked in the next international break if we beat Bournemouth and City while losing 7-0 to Juve?
He'll be here till we mathematically can't get CL football.
I'm resigned to him staying for the remainder of the season. Results from this point on seemingly have little effect on the situation.
Not a chance he will be managing the club this time next year, though.
He has to go. Every time I see Martial doing so well, makes me even want to get rid off Mourinho even more. Our CBs will do much better if Mourinho keeps his fat mouth shut and just play them, he doesn't even have to coach them.
Pretty much the view that anyone reasonable enough to look at our problems will conclude. I myself hate LVG with passion, and I don't think his relation with Mourinho is any good lately as he said last season we're boring under him, but he's right.
2 Managers agreeing on one thing can't be false.
He’s slowly playing the team the fans want. Just needs Matic out next. Could actually prevent him from getting sacked before the end of the season.
Well apart from the current bad season we are going through right now and my own feelings of wanting Jose out . I do feel Jose was spot on about the 2 positions he felt we needed to strengthen . A substitute striker to Lukaku and a starting CB since those are the 2 positions that has hurt us most this season . If Woodward had no plans to sack Jose then should have backed him properly in the summer transfer window . A striker like Manzdukic and CB like Alderwerield would have been proper additions for our squad right now .
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