We also lined up Herrera and Shaw before LVG signed. But he was still asked if we should do the deals. That's all that matters.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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We also lined up Herrera and Shaw before LVG signed. But he was still asked if we should do the deals. That's all that matters.
Its so amusing that whats believed is only ever conducive to what a persons bias is. He says something you agree with, its true. He says something you dont, hes lying or it just "paper talk". No wonder this place is a mess sometimes.
Doesnt change the original point to what I was replying to.
We’re sitting TENTH in the table, miles off the competition in terms of substance and results. That says it all.
Player from foreign leagues often need time to adapt to their environment both on and off the pitch. This is not peculiar to United, Mourinho or the PL e.g. Fabinho just had his first game for Liverpool
Who knew we needed a centre back just to challenge for Europa League places a year after finishing second.
The thing is Fred was dropped after scoring and being one of the best players against Wolves. Don't understand the logic in that. The players aren't going to adapt by sitting on the bench.
Something is happening behind the scenes with Fred that they're not telling us. Because I'm not sure how a player can score, be effective in the game and then barely play since then.
If we had gotten rid of him earlier there was a big chance of getting Zidane in as well or even Pochettino before he extended. The signs of a meltdown was incredibly evident in pre season and the fact that so many fans could see this and the board could not validates my point that they are completely clueless when it comes to football. Then after Woodwards transfer briefing the relationship between the two was as dead as Dr Evil's hairline and there was no turning back from there. Since then the donkey has played the likes of Herrera and McTominay at CB just to prove a point not to mention he has fired shots at the board multiple times. We really are a circus at the moment.
Hm... @Reddy Rederson believes Pogba was a Woodward signing and lined up before Mourinho arrived, based on absolutely zero evidence, just his own guess work. The poster he's arguing with, @fellaini's barber believes an a actual statement from the manager's mouth.
I know which of these carries more weight.
Remember when Mourinho signed Falcao even after having a poor season with us? Funny thing is, he hardly played him. I also remember when he came to Old trafford (during LVG's first season) and started a regressing 35year old Drogba against us even when he had a young Batsuayi on the bench.
Mourinho's actions/decisions do not surprise me at all. He is and has always been a strange person.
Mourinho's actions/decisions do not surprise me at all. He is and has always been a strange person.
Haha, legends. Move on pal.
Dude, I'm telling you things he actually said in a press conference, against you generating excuses out of thin air. Jose said he wanted 4 players in his first season, got four, expressed his satisfaction in interviews before the season which you can easily look up, 3 years later when it's gone to shit you come up talking shite about how they're all 'club signings'. I should refuse to believe what Jose said and believe your unfounded excuses instead? Jose is not even that stupid to come up with this 'club signing' nonsense not even once, its you guys who keep making new excuses for him each day.
Yes Woodward continues to be awful at handling managerial departures. He likely also won't fire Jose because he doesn't know the game well enough to identify an interim replacement. Basically afraid of his own incompetence that he might also screw that up .
Still baffled at how Arsenal and Chelsea nailed their own appointments in a summer where we were adamant the available options couldn't do better than Jose. Might as well have redcafe members running the club if that's the level of insight our hierarchy has
And what I said changes...how? You believe what fits your bias, and disregard anything that doesn’t. Remember Shaw saying he like Jose? Remember all those people saying he only said to get game time or whatever? See what I mean yet, or still sticking to the “but he said...”? My point is we don’t know what’s going on, we are all fed positive and negative propaganda. I’m not making any excuses for him, the point I made had nothing to do with who bought pogba and as I oringinally stated I wasn’t sure. Why you’re acting like I slept with your wife, I don’t know. There seems to be an awful lot of people taking things as personal attacks. If I got something wrong, correct me, but there’s no need for such hostility.
Jose can’t win. He thought Shaw was playing bad, he thought jones and Smalling weren’t doing enough to get fit for the team, he said so and got slated for it. Now he won’t say anything bad about pogba, Sanchez or lukaku playing like shit and he gets slated for it. So which is it? Own up to problems, or hide them? People need to make up there minds what they believe is true, or acceptable. Because all this wishy washy cherry picking is causing no end of stupid arguments about nothing.
Nobody really believes that Mourinho will turn this around.
They just dislike Woodward and Glazers even more, choosing to reference needing a centre half like Jerome Boateng or Yerry Mina to compete for sixth place as justification for this.
Mourinho is as dead as a door nail.
Dude, take a look in the mirror.
Jose actually said he gave a list of 4 players and got them all. What proof or evidence do you have that Pogba was signed by the club and lined up by Woodwood before Jose signed on? Come on @Reddy Rederson, because if you've got nothing then you're simply plucking it out of thin air and calling other biased for believing actual oral statements.
You trivialize his achievements at Madrid but ignore that others couldnt achieve same before he got there.
Pepe and Casillas had issues with Mourinho cos they were past it and he rightfully replaced them with Varane and Lopez. Ronaldo is also a petulant child who probably left Madrid cos he felt he didnt get enough support for his tax troubles. Valdano was a prick who was undermining the manager.
You refer to conte but ignore why he didnt last more than 2 seasons? Since Abramovich bought chelsea, they have had 13 managerial changes and Mourinho's two tenures have been the longest - that is impressive for a petulant problem child.
I have never advocated for Mourinho to get any player he asks for, but that being said, he has repeatedly stated he gives options to the management to sign from and management decides who to sign and how much to pay. If its a problem of overpaying for players, then the problem lies with the person negotiating the deals. If Ed wants to pay 75m for Heskey when he could have gotten a better player at same price, then its on Ed.
Transfer fees are not objective and players wishes (e.g. staying in same country) and relationships between clubs affect the negotiated price. Bonnuci wanted to leave Juve for Milan, Laporte turned down barcelona but willingly joined Citeh, Lenglet chose Barcelona over Madrid, Skriniar rejected Citeh, etc (Cancelo and Odriozola are RBs so not comparable). Milenkovic moved from Partizan and if not evaluated would be a fault on the scouting team.
With the transfer he had made prior, the team finished second, behind Citeh who had a better squad and invested more in the same time frame. Without the proper additions, we would neveer know if the team could have moved up another level.
Also even SAF has his own list of failed transfers with Veron, Bebe, Djemba Djemba, Kleberson sitting comfortably on the list. So a failed transfer is not a death nail on a manager
Bottom line, the idea should not be to give any manager a blank check but to work to address the needs the manager identifies. If the manager asks to fill a crucial position and gives a list to management of his preference, if those players are poor value (e.g. based on what the selling club is demanding), the next move should be to work with scouting team and manager to see if there are better alternatives. But not buying anyone at all is what got us here.
Since he was rumoured to have been a dead man walking, he's barely beaten the 2nd worst team in the league, at home, drawn one and lost one.
And seems to have no pressure on him anymore.
I don't understand.
And seems to have no pressure on him anymore.
I don't understand.
And Shaw actually said his treatment made him better. So once again, how does what you said change what I said about people and bias?
You don’t know you’re getting all caught up in something that wasn’t even my point, right? I’d love to know how “I believe..” gets twisted into “I know for a fact and you’re a dick if you don’t agree”? How did me correcting the amount of time Jose was at Chelsea get twisted into Jose never wanted pogba at United? Can you tell me that? I’d love to know.
He clapped at the fans, stuck his three fingers in the air and gave press conferences directing blame at Woody. That’s all it takes to get the pressure off him these days it seems.
Well considering Shaw said that himself, I'm gonna side with Shaw. Just as I side with the idea that Mourinho wanted Pogba (who fecking wouldn't) and that Pogba and Zlatan were right at the top of that list he gave to Ed.
I never did he didn’t want pogba, but pogba was coming back here regardless of Jose, IMO. Woodard is about money and making money off of pogba is like making money off a golden goose, a peace of piss. Since we seem to have gotten lost in replies to other nonsense, I’ll clarify to what my oringinal post was. I was correcting someone that said that Jose couldn’t even complete 2 years at Chelsea, and that even after spending “a ridiculous amount of money could only manage 3 Mickey Mouse cups”. Jose had did complete 2 full years at Chelsea, being sacked in his 3rd and we didn’t spend money in a vacuum. City also spend a lot of money that same year, more than we did. 6 out of the 10 players they brought in have either failed and been moved on, failed and been replaced or failed and were never anything more than cover anyway. That’s was it, that’s was limit of my input. Which then turned into a whole bunch of other things about net spend, breaking the transfer record etc etc.
He is to most of us, but clearly there are some with differing opinions.
27% of the Cafe has yet to give up on him entirely, which is shocking considering the circumstances. I genuinely believe we are no better off now than the day LVG was sacked.
I'm just really glad most the caf aren't match going fans
And Pogba being one of the best midfielders on the planet had nothing to do with the decision to recruit him?
Here we fecking go again. He wasn't then and he's not now.
Which says a lot more about the rest of the club than just the team or the manager, no? After all, if what’s thought here is all true, surely the fault rests squarely at the feet of th board who refuse to act and at woodys who brought in 3 separate managers that were about as far away from “the United way” as you can get with interstellar travel. So sack Jose, hire zidane(or whoever) and change nothing else, in 2/3 years time you’ll saying the same thing again.
If woody is playing championship manager, and not in close collaboration with his actual manager, and does understand actual football, who can lead us forward? No one. There’s no one that can work in that scenario and get the best out of us. If we had the DOF who was at inter while Jose was there, would things be different?
That is depressing.
For Woodward? I doubt it. He doesn’t strike me as the kind who really “gets” football. He’s a numbers guy, and pogba being an advertisers wet dream is what gets woody moist. Being a good footballer is incidental. But that’s just my opinion. I obviously don’t know. I’d say that if woody did understand football, he would have happily brought in the defenders Jose wanted. Because that would have allowed us to finally move on some players that have been needed to be moved on for a few years.
Why woody gave Jose a new contract, and then under cut him on transfers is weird to me. Why bother giving him a new contract if he isn’t going to back him? Why not just let the contract stand as is and let it run out? Why make such a big song and dance about why he didn’t back the manager? Which also cut the legs out from under Jose a little more. If Jose needs to go because he brought in two defenders that haven’t worked out as was hoped then surely woody who has brought in 3 managers who have been less than what was hoped, needs to go as well, no?
Explain?
I’d say that was largely due to lvg. We were lucky to even have one shot, never mind on target during a month never mind one game when he was here.
3 defensive managers have destroyed us.
Yes it makes for bleak reading, but we already knew we've been shite. What's done is done. What brings my piss to a boil is that our club does nothing to change it, and even some supporters are happy for this shit show to continue out of some misplaced loyalty towards a man who doesn't give a toss about our club.
Goals scored at home in the PL
2014-15 41 goals
2015-16 27 goals
2016-17 26 goals
2017-18 38 goals
We scored more goals at Home during LVG's reign
That's exactly it if we're being honest
Damn. That’s not good at all. Less goals than lvg, that’s bad.
If he wasn't the outright best on the planet, he was most certainly one of the brightest prospects in his position.
But if we were being really honest, the person that picked those managers should be going first so he doesn’t choose yet another wrong fit and this arguement goes on for another 2/3 years.
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