The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%
  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%
  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%

  • Total voters
    2,977
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What exactly do we expect to happen with these partnerships?

In my opinion United is too big for 1 CEO to manage everything. Thus the business side and the football side need to be divided and tackled separately. By bringing Marotta in we'll be bringing someone whose been into football for quite some time and had grown into his role as CEO. He knows how much players are worth both in terms of salaries and fees, he's got plenty of contacts which are crucial both when getting rid of deadwood and when buying players and he'll certainly won't be taken for a ride in the same way Woody was taken in numerous occasions. However, even Marotta has his limits. He'll be coming into a new country, at a new club with zero idea of how good our staff is. It will take him to settle down and identify the problems + remove the deadwood. Thus bringing in Ribalta back would provide him with someone he can trust + someone who knows United well. I am not inventing stuff. In fact, one of the first things Marotta did when he signed with Juventus was to bring Paratici with him. The final step would be the manager. There's no way a serious CEO and sporting director would consider working with Mourinho. In matter of fact the guy had been hopping from one clown owner/CEO to another (Abramovich, Moratti, Abramovich again and Woodward). Those who dared questioning him ended up into a fight of epic proportions.

Both Zidane and Conte knows Juventus ethos well. They know what to expect and will trust /respect people who went at Juve and did well. TBF Conte had a fallout with Marotta which lead with him leaving. However after two very negative experiences (Italy and Chelsea) I am pretty sure that he'll relish working within a setup run by professional people again.
 
You do! Because it would have been you moaning your arse off in the summer if we sacked him.

I banned myself from redcafe all summer so as not to listen to the constant negativity from our fans about Mourinho so I’d have been alright about it just cause it would’ve at least pleased 50% or more of our fan base.
Well... I say alright, that would all depend on the replacement, the vision and the funds provided to him.
 
Two awful examples there. One is “no money”, why would you fire a top manager because you have no money? Wtf :lol:
And firing Klopp because you tried everything, on a grand tapping up scale to get his top target but messed up? And you promised to get him in Jan. So fire Klopp for that? What are these ridiculous examples?

Chelsea’s a great one, a pre-cursor for our board if you like.

Sound silly don’t they? So does sacking a manager that just came second and put your club back in contention to being talking about as elite. You think Fergie got all the players he wanted?

I agree I would have sacked him if I wasn’t going to back him as it’s Mourinho. But you can’t have a go at the board for ‘backing there manager’.
 
He's got till December for me. If we're more than 6 points off the top 4, sack him and bring in someone else.
So after all the investment since his arrival (£400m) on his behalf and 3rd year into his tenure your expectations for the new season was to not to be too far off the top 5? That’s not even taking into account the shit on the stick cowardly football (worst out of all top 6 sides) that in no way is compatible with our club values.

I even leaving out his toxic behaviour out of the equation.

I genuinely can’t wrap my head around an idea of giving him more time.
 
This season reminds me a little bit of the 1990/1991 season. We had a decent team and showed occasional signs of being a great team, but leaked goals and were inconsistent. I just think we're two or three players away from seriously challenging for the title. However, football and the premier league has moved on and left Mourinho behind. We need an attacking creative style manager with an eye for talented young players, and then I'm certain we'll be back among the big boys where we belong.
Thing is, the first step is to sack Mourinho, and I don't know why the board is stalling. He's clearly not the guy, and we need someone to come in and get the players confidence up playing more adventurous ready for next season. Apart from the chance of nicking a domestic cup and fighting for a top four finish, the season is already a right off. What are they doing wasting time with Mourinho? Get him out!
 
In my opinion United is too big for 1 CEO to manage everything. Thus the business side and the football side need to be divided and tackled separately. By bringing Marotta in we'll be bringing someone whose been into football for quite some time and had grown into his role as CEO. He knows how much players are worth both in terms of salaries and fees, he's got plenty of contacts which are crucial both when getting rid of deadwood and when buying players and he'll certainly won't be taken for a ride in the same way Woody was taken in numerous occasions. However, even Marotta has his limits. He'll be coming into a new country, at a new club with zero idea of how good our staff is. It will take him to settle down and identify the problems + remove the deadwood. Thus bringing in Ribalta back would provide him with someone he can trust + someone who knows United well. I am not inventing stuff. In fact, one of the first things Marotta did when he signed with Juventus was to bring Paratici with him. The final step would be the manager. There's no way a serious CEO and sporting director would consider working with Mourinho. In matter of fact the guy had been hopping from one clown owner/CEO to another (Abramovich, Moratti, Abramovich again and Woodward). Those who dared questioning him ended up into a fight of epic proportions.

Both Zidane and Conte knows Juventus ethos well. They know what to expect and will trust /respect people who went at Juve and did well. TBF Conte had a fallout with Marotta which lead with him leaving. However after two very negative experiences (Italy and Chelsea) I am pretty sure that he'll relish working within a setup run by professional people again.

I was about to say Conte fell out with him. I understand that, but isn’t this what we have been trying? Ed is clearly just the face. I’m quite sure he doesn’t donhalf the stuff we think he actually does. We will get a DOF but quite clearly we can’t with Jose in charge, it wouldn’t work. Ribalta was here and undermined if you read what he has to say. But everyone looks good in hindsight.

I’m just saying I don’t think things are as bad as they seem we just have to stop pu$$ footing around and take a chance in what would be a coach Who isn’t a proven success.
 
I don't know what's happened lately with our signings. Pretty much with all of them you get a short period of good performances initially then quickly followed by lethargic 'just phoning it in' performances.

As Keane used to say (cant remember who to) when you get signed by utd you haven't made it - there are no laurels to rest on.

Everyone wants to rub our faces in the dirt so those 5-6 good games a season you had previously - you now need to show up and given them each and every week, even against Bolton away or whoever.
 
They didn’t back their manager though Mainoldo, well imo at least, and quite clearly in the petulant opinion of the man currently managing their football team.

They backed him by keeping him in the job. They still have the right however to say we aren’t getting you Boateng; Willian and Arnatovic (just examples from news reports) because they are not part of the clubs future ethos.

I just hope I’m not giving them too much credit and like I believe they have been sorting out his replacement for some time.
 
I agree with those posters that are saying he should be removed from the manager position but not fired, rather kept on a payroll and then if he wants to join other club he'd have to negotiate his release/resignation or else no managing clubs for him until his contract expires.
 
The board didn't back him fully in the summer, so why they're backing him as we sink deeper and deeper into the abyss is just mind boggling.

The board created this mess after all, post fergie, Fergie controlled the reigns till his retirement, Ed Woodward (a non footballing person filled the vacuum ) and is clueless about how to do things correctly.

I don't think sir bobby or sir Alex have any say in the clubs affairs now .
 
So after all the investment since his arrival (£400m) on his behalf and 3rd year into his tenure your expectations for the new season was to not to be too far off the top 5? That’s not even taking into account the shit on the stick cowardly football (worst out of all top 6 sides) that in no way is compatible with our club values.

I even leaving out his toxic behaviour out of the equation.

I genuinely can’t wrap my head around an idea of giving him more time.
I'd say giving a manager more time to right the ship is right in line with our club values.
Personally I don't care about style of football as long as the results are there.
I look at our squad and I think City, Liverpool and Chelsea have better squads and Spurs have a better starting 11 in terms of overall quality, so yes I think top 4 is the realistic target.
Sacking him now with no clear replacement planned and no window to bring in players would only increase the turmoil and media circus surrounding the club imo.
 
They backed him by keeping him in the job. They still have the right however to say we aren’t getting you Boateng; Willian and Arnatovic (just examples from news reports) because they are not part of the clubs future ethos.

I just hope I’m not giving them too much credit and like I believe they have been sorting out his replacement for some time.
Exactly this. We have to use our money wisely, as we have no donors. So far the ROI has been piss poor. Mou is the one who is resposible for the shitshow we have been watching during his tenure here. I hope Woody knows what he is doing, I hope he is just saving the money for the future manager. The dilemma in his head was/is: should I sack Mou now and pay him the 20 mil quid and try to save this season, or shall I let the whole world see what Mou is really made of and save the 20 mil quid instead. Currently Woody is banking on us to be out of top 4 but not get relegated. But how much being out of CL next season would cost us?
 
Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

Yes 1,824 vote(s) 70.8% <------ Red blooded passionate united Fans

No
315 vote(s) 12.2% <------ Support Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc

Not yet - needs more time
438 vote(s) 17.0% <------ United fans who've forgotten to change their vote.
 
Results should always be evaluated in context
1. prior to Mourinho's arrival, Madrid had exited the CL at R16 for 6 consecutive seasons and won the league in only 2 of those 6 seasons. In his 3 seasons, he had 3 semi-finals in CL, won the league and CdR, all while competing against the Pep Barca that won 2 CLs in 3 seasons (pep reportedly left due to pressure from Mourinho). His work laid the foundation for the subsequent success by Madrid, with players like Carvajal, Nacho, and Morata being introduced by him, with Varane, Modric. In the 5 seasons, since he has left, despite all the CL success, Madrid has only won La liga once and CdR once. Mourinho's problem at Madrid was with Casillas (who was past it) and the influence players with personal relationships with Perez have always had (same Casillas was stilled benched by Ancelotti proving Mourinho right). Zidane's (who is probably the closest player ever to Perez and rumored to have gotten Camacho fired for asking him to simply his game) success was strongly fueled cos of his relationship with Perez ensured a strangle hold on the locker room.

2. At Chelsea, his brought back Matic and brought in Costa, which were two key players for their PL title and LC win his second season. He wanted to buy stones (who now starts for current champions Citeh) but was declined and things spriralled from their. Conte won in the PL in his first season (with the luxury of inheriting a title winning squad and no european committments) but failed to follow up the following season again due to being undermined by Chelsea backroom staff. Problem with chelsea has been shown to be the backroom staff not the coach and Saari will likely soon follow.

3. At united, while money has been spent, it is unfair to put the billdirectly on Mourinho when he is not the one negotiating the transfers. Still he has been more successful than his predecessors who won only one FA cup in 3 season and highest PL finish was 4th.

He has bought 2 CBs - Bailly and Lindelof both comparable and even cheaper than what some other teams have spent in that period.
- Citeh has since bought Stones and Laporte (despite having Kompany, Otamendi and Mangala) and spent large amount on Danilo, Walker and Mendy.
- Liverpool bought Van Dijk
- Chelsea bought Rudigere, and David Luis

-Sanchez and Matic were past the hill and the decline shouldnt be surprising. Unlike most, I never approved of their acquisitions and have never trusted Mou's judgement on specific players.
- Lukaku is what lukaku has always been and the only reason he cost that much was the lack of alternatives in the market. Neither lukaku nor morata should have cost as much as they did
- Mkhi was unfortunate and never really got into a consistent form but I dont see him lighting up the league for Arsenal. But at the time Mkhi joined, we couldnt attract top talent easily cos of no CL.
- Fred is too soon to judge and he did get his opportunities early on but didnt really stand out. He might just need time to adapt.
That Juve team has been to 2 CL finals in the last 4 seasons and have added CR. They will own most teams in Europe.

Given the performance from last season, this summer should have seen efforts to close the gap with Citeh, but instead only Fred and a Dalot were added. I will forgive the manager if he is not enthused.

Give Mourinho or any manager a quality squad and then criticize if he doesnt deliver. Managers arent miracle workers

Carvajal,and Nacho are all Real Madrid youths, while Morata was bought in 2008. Sure Mou gave them a chance but the real praise should be given to the scouts and youth coaches who actually spotted them and developed them. Results don't lie. Mou took possibly one of the richest clubs in the world and was only able to win 1 major honour (La Liga) in 3 years. He ended up falling out with their best player (Ronaldo), two legends (Pepe and Casillas), Ozil, their sporting director Valdano and he was also caught poking a rival coach in the eye.Same thing with Chelsea second stint. He won the league only to spiral out of control. He ended up losing the dressing and arguing with Emelano, Granovskaia and Carniero. The season after Conte was able to equal his record at Chelsea (second stint) despite having zero knowledge about EPL football, Chelsea and the English language. And yet, we're made to believe that all the drama surrounding us at the moment is not his fault but someone else.

United have no DOF which means the players are brought on the suggestion of the manager not the owners. Which means that Mou was the one who wanted that tripe to sign for us and he also knew how much money we will be spending on bringing them here. 30-35m might not be alot for Shitty but its the ongoing rate for top young defenders at the moment. Bonucci (he's a renowned defender but he's also in his 30s), Lenglet, Cancelo and Odriozola all moved for similar fees. The true bargains moved for way less then that. To give you some examples Skriniar moved for Inter 20m euros + Cipriani while Milenkovic moved for a measly 5m euros. Unfortunately the special one preferred Lindelof to both of the. The rest of Mou's signings were mostly failures. Mkhitaryan was offloaded quickly after the club spent 30m+ on him. We spent 75m on Lukaku who looks more like a glorified Heskey, Matic gave us 1 season, Sanchez wasn't even able to give us that much and he barely gives Fred a chance to play. Yet he still expects us to trust him with big money especially to strengthen a position he's been buying players in for the past 2 years.
 
Mourinho should have gone when he started digs at all and sundry pre-season. It was so obvious then the season was going to be challenging. The upper management has to also take part of the responsibility for the mess United are in at the moment.

Juve was as embarrassing as it gets for a club of United's stature. It's not the result that was worrying but the manner and ease of the defeat.
Agreed.

They're just delaying the ineivitable at this point. You're not going to win anything with this toxic environment of mistrust between the manager and his board/players/the media/CEO. Even if we don't have a permanent manager lined up, and don't make top 4 thereafter, I think we're better off putting in place a caretaker manager till the end of the season so that the process of transition to a new regime/style of play can be smoother, as well as giving the players a confidence boost and everyone a respite from the incessant negativity.
 
I was about to say Conte fell out with him. I understand that, but isn’t this what we have been trying? Ed is clearly just the face. I’m quite sure he doesn’t donhalf the stuff we think he actually does. We will get a DOF but quite clearly we can’t with Jose in charge, it wouldn’t work. Ribalta was here and undermined if you read what he has to say. But everyone looks good in hindsight.

I’m just saying I don’t think things are as bad as they seem we just have to stop pu$$ footing around and take a chance in what would be a coach Who isn’t a proven success.

Let me be clear Id rather see us get Zidane then Conte. However, while Conte did fall out with Marotta, every one and his dog know that it was the former's fault not the latter. Basically Conte wanted Cuadrado at Juventus. The club moved quickly to sign him up but Chelsea dived in and threw a ridiculous bid to get him. The club pulled the plug out of the deal, Conte threw a fit (which ended up involving Buffon in) and left soon afterwards. Cuadrado proved a failure at Chelsea and ended up still signing with Juve for a much reasonable fee while Juve came 1 game away from winning the treble which is way more then Conte was able to achieve. I am pretty sure Conte acknowledges his mistake. In fact he had previously said that he would consider a return to Juve.

I am Mou's big critic but he's not our only big problem. The thing is that SAF had protected the club for more then two decades, allowing them to focus on the financial side of things while taking all the football side of things himself. There's no SAF Mark II around and even if we manage to find a replacement to him, he'll probably end up moving in 3-4 years time. That's how football is these days. Thus we need to develop the football side of United and that can only be achieved by bringing in the right people in the right jobs.

Woody is a genius in terms of generating cash for the club, which is not a trivial thing either. There's no chance in hell United can dig itself outside the hole we're in without us spending some serious dosh. However, he's got no idea about the football side which explains why we overspend on players and why United has a huge wage bill with very little talent to justify it. He needs help. The new manager will need help. FFS even our coaches and our scouts needs some help/guidance.

All United fans are proud of the club's achievements. However, if we're honest we admit that we're basically a 2 manager's club. Juventus on the other hand has been winning consistently since the 1920s. The reason being that unlike us who rely on successful generals and visionaries, they rely on a solid and consistent infrastructure which provide plenty of resilience. People come and go,the club had its shares of hits (the calciopoli scandal, Berlusconi and Moratti throwing shitloads of money on the Milanese clubs until they went bust etc) and despite all of that they always bounced back at record time.

Funnily enough a serious CEO and DOF improves the chances of us signing an inexperienced manager and actually make a success out of. Conte was relatively inexperienced when he was hired as a manager and he went on winning quite a lot there. An experienced football setup is more likely to hire a less renowned manager because they know they can support him + they got all the experience/confidence in the world to identify if the guy is clearly out of depth and to fire him immediately before he does any permanent damage. As I like to say for every Conte or Lippi there is a Ferrara and a Deschamps
 
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They backed him by keeping him in the job. They still have the right however to say we aren’t getting you Boateng; Willian and Arnatovic (just examples from news reports) because they are not part of the clubs future ethos.

I just hope I’m not giving them too much credit and like I believe they have been sorting out his replacement for some time.

According to Capello though @Mainoldo, who actually spoke to Mourinho (rather than using unsubstantiated news reports), he wanted Koulibaly and/or Skriniar. Citation below:

"He wanted to sign two defenders, one was [Inter’s] Milan Skriniar, the other one was [Napoli’s] Koulibaly.”

Either way, if you know anything at all about Mourinho and his footballing ethos, you know that after 3 years, for a Mourinho team to still be starting with Young, Lindelöf, Smalling in his back four is a damning indictment on the recruitment by the club. How much of that is Mourinho's failure in previous Summers or the club I don't know, but this Summer is was crystal clear that two top drawer CBs were right at the very top of Mourinho's wish list. To not even get one is pretty damning on the club.*

* is that an excuse for sitting in tenth and playing worse than ever during his reign, or for the constant undermining of the club/board to the press, no, is it feck. I'm certain there's a good few managers (including Mourinho himself without the petulance) that would be getting so much more out of a squad that includes DDG, Pogba, Sanchez, Martial.
 
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There's no chance in hell United can dig itself outside the hole we're in without us spending some serious dosh.

We don't need serious cash either. Just a few tweaks. The players are much better than this. The choice our tactics since preseason takes 70% of the problems being created , the rest is down to players with missed chances and poor execution in both boxes.
 
We don't need serious cash either. Just a few tweaks. The players are much better than this. The choice our tactics since preseason takes 70% of the problems being created , the rest is down to players with missed chances and poor execution in both boxes.

I think @devilish has a point. If you could build your PL/CL winning side, how many from the current squad would make that first 11?
 
It really does my head in knowing some people out there still don’t want him to get sacked. Jose can probably take a dump on them (inc. Woodward) and they would still support him at this stage, because not a single sane argument exists anymore for keeping him.

I am still Jose In.
Why?
Because at this very moment in time, sacking him will not solve anything. No managers are available which will take us to the next level. If he is sacked, we will hand the reigns to Carrick till the end of the season. Someone who has never managed in his life and it will be throwing him into the deep end. The pressure and stress are something else at MUFC and for a newbie it would be crushing.
Best thing to do is ride this wave out. If he Jose improves, great. If not, in the Summer, replace him with a manager who can take us to the next level.

It's the equivalent of hating your job, so you quit, before finding another (better) one. No planning, just a knee jerk, pissed off reaction which could leave us in a worse position.
 
De Gea and Pogba. Martial on the bench.

Agreed. That's what's worrying.

Maybe, maybe, maybe you could get Shaw & Dallot in depending how their seasons continue*, possibly Mata in the right team, but right now, nope, it's the 3 you mentioned.

* I realise that's a massive leap of faith but I'm playing a little bit devils advocate in trying to squeeze in as many as possible into a side that I could imagine winning the PL/CL in the future.
 
We don't need serious cash either. Just a few tweaks. The players are much better than this. The choice our tactics since preseason takes 70% of the problems being created , the rest is down to players with missed chances and poor execution in both boxes.

I think we need to spend less money then Mourinho portray it to be, mainly because a truly brilliant manager would have things sorted instead of constantly throwing money on new players to try and fix the same problem. However, if we're honest we'll acknowledge that Mou is not our only problem. Woody is clearly out of depth in terms of the football side of things and we less the infrastructure in place to make things work. Even if we had to hire an top football CEO, DOF and manager then they will need time to get things started which means that big money will probably need to be invested to sort the immediate problems (ie replacement of Valencia/Young, RW, cover/competition for Lukaku, cover/competition for Matic)

I also think that many players who are heading towards the end of their contract had already set their mind in calling quits and leave this circus act.
 
I had a hideous dream last night that we went on a string of around ten 0-1 defeats at Old Trafford and Jose was breaking his heart laughing on the touch line. It was that specific scoreline every time too :lol::nervous:
 
I think @devilish has a point. If you could build your PL/CL winning side, how many from the current squad would make that first 11?

An EPL side (starting, first XI) would probably contain DDG, Smalling, Shaw, Pogba, Martial and that's it. The squad isn't particularly good.
To win the CL, the (starting, first XI) players we currently have would be DDG and Pogba. That's it.

IMO, Jose got the most out of our current team. I doubt that any manager could've got 2nd place, from our current set of players. People on this forum don't seem to credit him with what he managed to achieve last season.
 
I am still Jose In.
Why?
Because at this very moment in time, sacking him will not solve anything. No managers are available which will take us to the next level. If he is sacked, we will hand the reigns to Carrick till the end of the season. Someone who has never managed in his life and it will be throwing him into the deep end. The pressure and stress are something else at MUFC and for a newbie it would be crushing.
Best thing to do is ride this wave out. If he Jose improves, great. If not, in the Summer, replace him with a manager who can take us to the next level.

It's the equivalent of hating your job, so you quit, before finding another (better) one. No planning, just a knee jerk, pissed off reaction which could leave us in a worse position.
So your thought process is that it's better to keep doing the same thing and remain shit, because actually trying to change the situation by removing one of the root causes for the problem would in fact make absolutely no difference? Makes no sense quite frankly. Other clubs have sacked managers early in the season and gone on to do well. Chelsea won the CL after sacking a manager mid season ffs.
 
To the guys that still want Jose here. Ask yourself this. If he was manager right now of Liverpool or City, behaving the way he does, whilst they sit in 10th, playing the type of football that we do - would you want him to stay at those clubs for as long as possible?

I'd want him to sign a 10 year extension as a rival supporter. Anyone making excuses for him now is either a rival supporter or are too stubborn to hold their hands up and change their opinion of him.

But no, we're the "spoilt fans" for wanting the best for the club, right?
 
According to Capello though @Mainoldo, who actually spoke to Mourinho (rather than using unsubstantiated news reports), he wanted Koulibaly and/or Skriniar. Citation below:

"He wanted to sign two defenders, one was [Inter’s] Milan Skriniar, the other one was [Napoli’s] Koulibaly.”

Either way, if you know anything at all about Mourinho and his footballing ethos, you know that after 3 years, for a Mourinho team to still be starting with Young, Lindelöf, Smalling in his back four is a damning indictment on the recruitment by the club. How much of that is Mourinho's failure in previous Summers or the club I don't know, but this Summer is was crystal clear that two top drawer CBs were right at the very top of Mourinho's wish list. To not even get one is pretty damning on the club.*

* is that an excuse for sitting in tenth and playing worse than ever during his reign, or for the constant undermining of the club/board to the press, no, is it feck. I'm certain there's a good few managers (including Mourinho himself without the petulance) that would be getting so much more out of a squad that includes DDG, Pogba, Sanchez, Martial.

You do know though. You just said the man had 3 years. within that time we backed him with 2 center backs. Tell you what he should have done... requested for Kouilbaly the first time round. He then got a second shot at it but chose between Lindelof and Michael Keane. No shit we never got him Skriniar, he would have cost £70m and was 12 months into a contract. But guess what just like with Kouilbaly, there was as transfer window in 2017.. he decided to buy Lindelof. So the damning indictment, a nuh Mourinho falt?
 
So your thought process is that it's better to keep doing the same thing and remain shit, because actually trying to change the situation by removing one of the root causes for the problem would in fact make absolutely no difference? Makes no sense quite frankly. Other clubs have sacked managers early in the season and gone on to do well. Chelsea won the CL after sacking a manager mid season ffs.

Firstly, I don't like to use CFC as the yardstick because no other team in the league does what they do - sack a manager and the replacement wins the title immediately, then gets sacked the following season.
CFC have a structure around them which enables a new manager to win the title immediately. We don't. It's silly to even think that our newly appointed manager could ever achieve that.

As you said, a new manager can make a difference, but the wrong manager won't change much. If you sack Jose because you are pissed off, you'll end up with Carrick in charge or another manager who is not really up to the job...but the only one willing to take the job at the time.
Lack of planning is what got us in this mess and sacking manager today, won't be a well planned move.
A well planned move would be to line someone up (a good manager, not someone who just happens to be available on the day); make sure that they are ready to take the reigns, then sack Jose.
 
4 possibly 5 if we are being sensible and not just building dream teams.

If we take last season's CL winners and mix them into our first 11 to try and get a team that could win big titles. The bare-minimum I believe you'd need if being massively optimistic is 5. Even wildly optimistic I not sure that side is good enough to win the CL, switch Mata for Isco or Modric and maybe you're getting there.

DDG
Dalot Varane Ramos Shaw
Kroos Pogba
Mata
Bale Sanchez or Martial
Ronaldo

For the PL...


DDG
Dalot Kompany Laporte Shaw
Fernandinho KDB
Pogba
Sanchez Martial
Aguero
I obviously realise Dalot should be nowhere near in reality at present, hence why it's so wildly optimistic. Either way I think we are at least 4 players away even if Dalot reaches his potential extremely quickly. A Mourinho lead side would need at least 2 CB's.
 
You do know though. You just said the man had 3 years. within that time we backed him with 2 center backs. Tell you what he should have done... requested for Kouilbaly the first time round. He then got a second shot at it but chose between Lindelof and Michael Keane. No shit we never got him Skriniar, he would have cost £70m and was 12 months into a contract. But guess what just like with Kouilbaly, there was as transfer window in 2017.. he decided to buy Lindelof. So the damning indictment, a nuh Mourinho falt?

How do either of us know that Mourinho didn't request both but got to chose from the bargain basement instead?

I certainly don't know as you claim. What I do know it that Klopp wanted VVD above all others and got him for €78m.
 
If we take last season's CL winners and mix them into our first 11 to try and get a team that could win big titles. The bare-minimum I believe you'd need if being massively optimistic is 5. Even wildly optimistic I not sure that side is good enough to win the CL, switch Mata for Isco or Modric and maybe you're getting there.

DDG
Dalot Varane Ramos Shaw
Kroos Pogba
Mata
Bale Sanchez or Martial
Ronaldo

For the PL...


DDG
Dalot Kompany Laporte Shaw
Fernandinho KDB
Pogba
Sanchez Martial
Aguero
I obviously realise Dalot should be nowhere near in reality at present, hence why it's so wildly optimistic. Either way I think we at least 4 players away. A Mourinho lead side would need at least 2 CB's.

It pains me that we need a Center Midfielder too.
 
How do either of us know that Mourinho didn't request both but got to chose from the bargain basement instead?

I certainly don't know as you claim.

True. From the same club that spends £85m and £75m on Pogba and Lukaku. Tells the world how much they would spend on the worlds best young defender in Varane. But we would refuse to pay the £12m it cost Inter Milan to get Skriniar.

Obviously we can all try and make up stupid argument to defend him if we like. I heard he really wanted Karim Benzema at Chelsea but they gave him Diego Costa.
 
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