You don’t think hes aware of fan opinion outside of what he hears during match days? You don’t think the media feeds off what is said here and elsewhere? They’re facilitated by what they read and hear by fans beyond the stadium, and in turn they create news to vindicate those opinions. People like to read news that align with their own opinion. The mood around the club is “toxic,” and that’s been created in part by the manager, but the media and the fans have contributed their fair share, too.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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We won't have a new manger until the 25th December. One of the three wise men told me.
He's probably aware, yes. I don't think it affects him much, though. If that negative/toxic vibe transcended into the match days with lots of booing (think Rafa at Chelsea), then I'd definitely agree with you because that'd easily cause problems in regards to our performances. As things stand, I don't agree with pointing the blame to the fans and even the media for the poor job he's doing because, in my opinion, it's mainly tactical problems that have caused us to have such a disappointing season.
Like, the Newcastle match should've been a turning point. One of many, in fact. You could go back to the 2-1 win against Middlesbrough in his first season as the first indication of us being better off with a more attacking approach. Against Newcastle, 2-0 to the worst team in the league and still receiving all the support in the world when, in any other club, he would've been booed out of the stadium. In the 2nd half we showed - yet again - what we could do when attacking. Then he went back to all out defensive against Chelsea and Juve, and, in the brief phases we went attacking in both games, we looked alright. There have been so many games that should've showed him we'd be better off with a more attacking approach but he wants to be conservative no matter the opposition. That's our problem more-so than the fans and media, imo.
Do you. I think you get swayed by Mourinho to be honest.
He's had 2.5 years to move Smalling and Jones on though, this is my point.
So, up until this latest excuse, he obviously did think they were good enough, he's wrong, they're not.
Then, the other two, Bailey and Lindelof, are his own signings, so why throw them under the bus?
Fair enough, Lindelof wasn't great last year but there's been plenty of players who take a season to adjust and then turn out to be great.
The board obviously decided it would be better to give them another chance rather than spend £70 million on Harry Maguire, again, fair enough IMO.
What has Bailey even done wrong anyway, who knows why he's not playing him?
Maybe in case he plays well and it justifies the boards decision to not buy another cb.
We're dealing with such a deluded ego maniac that I'm not even joking about that.
What results exactly? In 3 years at Real he won just 1 title, 1 coppa del rey and 1 supercoppa. He was succeeded by Ancelotti (1 CL, 1 Coppa del rey, 1 supercup, 1 fifa world cup) and Zidane (1 league title, 1 super coppa di espania, 3 CL, 2 Europe super cups, 2 fifa world cups) both winning more then him. He then returned to Chelsea were he won the league only to be sacked the following year. Conte in his first two years of EPL football pretty much did the same with the difference that results under him in his second year wasn't as shocking. In fact he was able to finish his second year. Then he moved to United were he spent outrageous amounts of money for a measly EFL cup, 1 Europa league and 1 Community shield. All of which are the poor man's version of other more important cups. Mourinho hasn't been great for a long long time.
At United his wishes were respected for most of the time and what happened? He keeps on bringing in CBs at 30m a pop because the men he brought aren't up for grabs. He brought Sanchez on ridiculous salary and Fred on 50m and he barely ever play them. Meanwhile all the players bar Shaw had regressed. Lukaku looks like a 75m version of Heskey, his beloved Matic looks like a liability while Mkhitaryan has come and gone in matter of months. You expect the manager to act humble after that and stick to football. Yet no, he keeps talking and pointing fingers at everyone and everything when in reality all this crap is largely due to himself. Instead of showing the three fingers at Juventus fans he should have made sure that his very expensive side (way more expensive then Juventus's side) is able to do more then simply have 1 shot at goal. He was literally owned by Allegri which is no great feat considering that he was also owned by Lampard despite the latter manages Derby.
Heres the problem with stats, they never tell the whole story. His time at real was hampered by two things, an outstanding barcelona squad and a diva star player that he was never going to win a war with. His return to chelsea was not as you say it was. I know wiki says 2013 - 2015, but its actually 2013/14(3rd place. 4 points behind city) 2014/15(winner) 2015/16 sacked when the players downed tools. So he did, in fact complete two full years back, and in fact lasted longer than conte. As for "measly" trophies, they werent "measley" to everyone else that was trying to win them. His net spend in 16/17 was 185 million euros. 105 million of which was on pogba which to the best of my knowledge was a club/woodward signing, not a jose signing. But still, 185 million vs city spending 213 million euros. So the fact he spent a lot doesnt mean very much, when others are doing the same.
The original poster spoke about records. There's hardly any records that remotely suggest he was special during his last 3 jobs. At Real he was overshadowed by Barcelona, During his second stint at Chelsea, Conte equalled him despite having zero idea of the EPL or the English language and at United we won three mickey mouse cups after spending 400m
And lets stop with this BS of Pogba not being his signing. Else we wouldn't have heard the end of it. Which is kind of ironic considering that he's one of his best signing at least compared to Mkhitaryan, dumb and dumber at the back, The new Quinton Fortune on 400k a week and the Belgian Heskey
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Your going to bring up net spend then back it up as a negative because we broke the world transfer record loool.
Have a drink and let that sink in. If only he was able to manage like Pep and spend £50m instead of £30m on defenders, we probably would have won the league last season. I can see him doing some type of Al Pacino speech about inches after he’s sacked referring to that tbf.
This is the least I’ve ever cared about an upcoming PL game. For that reason alone I want him gone. He’s done this to me with his lack of ambition.
I didnt bring up net spend. I didnt adjust at all for incoming transfer funds. 185 million euros was the total spent on pogba(105 million), mkhitaryan(42 million) and bailly(38 million). Which is not "an outrageous amount of money" in context. Pep spend more and got more players. Ten, 6 of which have been failures and moved on or just back ups that will never see the light of day in a blue shirt.
Maybe stop having a drink, and let that sink in. It also might make you a bit clearer in what youre actually trying to say. Because I didnt bring up net spend, or spending at all for that matter, I replied to it. I also didnt paint it as a negative, or positive. So again I have no clue what youre on about.
Daily reminder that Jose is was and will never be good enough for a club with ambitions like United.
Get this man out of this club please. He cannot get results, cannot coach us in attack, cannot coach us in defence. Why is he here exactly then?
It's really telling when the expectations are so low that people have already written off a season before November!
Get this man out of this club please. He cannot get results, cannot coach us in attack, cannot coach us in defence. Why is he here exactly then?
It's really telling when the expectations are so low that people have already written off a season before November!
To be honest Jose himself wrote off this season in July. Just been going through the motions since.
If woodward didnt sign pogba its kinda weird that hes such a huge part of woodwards plans regarding united commercialism. A fact that kept pogba here when he wanted a move away(supposedly).
As for your estimation of conte, what was different? What did conte do that was so great that really changed chelsea? The answer is feck all. They already had a great squad. City already had a great squad. They bought to improve, we bought to rebuild. As for your insults to the players, meh. Why bother. Its just yet more selective facts to feed a bias.
I feel, he is the villain that manutd needs now.What are people expecting him to say? Do you want him to toe the company line and just repeat there is no value in the market line.Someone has to confront the board and Ed Woodward.
Is Mourinho to blame, for our present predicament - Yes. Is he alone responsible for all the mess - No. So, will changing the manager alone, going to solve all the issues - I am not sure.We as fans are playing in to the hands of the owners, when each time we clamour for new manager.Previously, it used be us/manutd vs the rest.Now it is Moyes sympathizers vs Van Gal sympathizers vs Mourinho sympathizers vs Ed Woodward sympathizers vs Glazers sympathizers vs the rest (having all the fun, seeing us self explode).
The biggest advantage we had during Fergie days was stability and continuity, which no other PL clubs had; other than Arsenal.We have lost that advantage and it is becoming a vicious cycle now.For a new manager - all of us will give the benefit of the doubt during the first year, get frustrated during second and finally explode or carry pitchforks during the third( that is, if manager is lucky enough to get CL spot or complete 3 year term).
From what I see, the owners/board/Ed Woodward ambitions are not matching with those of the fans and Mourinho.More gloomy days/years ahead and hope something gives. The management is not giving any indication that we are going to ride this storm.
To the original question - I am really not sure, if he has to go or not next season.
**first post - apologies, if i had missed something.
Is Mourinho to blame, for our present predicament - Yes. Is he alone responsible for all the mess - No. So, will changing the manager alone, going to solve all the issues - I am not sure.We as fans are playing in to the hands of the owners, when each time we clamour for new manager.Previously, it used be us/manutd vs the rest.Now it is Moyes sympathizers vs Van Gal sympathizers vs Mourinho sympathizers vs Ed Woodward sympathizers vs Glazers sympathizers vs the rest (having all the fun, seeing us self explode).
The biggest advantage we had during Fergie days was stability and continuity, which no other PL clubs had; other than Arsenal.We have lost that advantage and it is becoming a vicious cycle now.For a new manager - all of us will give the benefit of the doubt during the first year, get frustrated during second and finally explode or carry pitchforks during the third( that is, if manager is lucky enough to get CL spot or complete 3 year term).
From what I see, the owners/board/Ed Woodward ambitions are not matching with those of the fans and Mourinho.More gloomy days/years ahead and hope something gives. The management is not giving any indication that we are going to ride this storm.
To the original question - I am really not sure, if he has to go or not next season.
**first post - apologies, if i had missed something.
Look at all the players clubs like Chelsea, Liverpool, and even Juve had to replace since Jose has been in charge of United. Let's not go overboard with the "They bought to improve, we bought to rebuild" excuse. The only big clubs that really applies to is City and PSG
I’ve been on the fence for a while. I like to give the benefit of the doubt it’s just the way I am. However, his conduct after losing games weather we agree with it or not is just wrong. He’s undermining everyone at the club. He’s abviously pining for more money in Jan. what is he going to do in Jan? Just say it’s a difficult window as a buying club and then sign an aging player on the decline? It’s not worked. Pay him off. Get a progressive coach in with his own ideas. My pick would be Jardim due to his exciting football and record using youth. Blamc could also potentially be a great candidate as he knows what this club is about having said that he’s been out of work for a few years now. Don’t give Josè any more resources. Time to say our goodbyes and look to the future.
He tried to be clever mentioning Everton were matching our ambitions. If we lose this game I think he’s gone. He’s basically throwing up the middle finger to the board with one hand while the majority of the fans eat out of the palm of his other hand. The board is outdated and need to evolve the structure of the club but Mourinho is just draining the life out of the club. We are a husky of what we were even when Van Gaal was here.
I've seen many people mention that Jardim's football is more pragmatic than exciting. To be honest I want Jose gone but I can't make up my mind over who I want him to be replaced by. Jardim, Blanc sound like they would be decent but I can't say I've seen their teams much.
Mou throws everyone under the bus and isn't shy of criticising the board. If Pogba wasn't his signing then rest assured that we would have heard about it
I don't think that what Conte did was extraordinary. Having said that, he took a side which was in shambles and managed to to equal Mourinho (second stint) despite having no experience of Chelsea, the EPL or the English language.
Mou's has been at United for the past 3 years and nothing he achieved was anywhere near to that either despite spending 400m.
Regarding the squad well, I don't see how he can possibly complain about it. The club had invested heavily in bringing in his signing which including Bailly (35m), Lindelof (30m), Matic (40m), Dalot (20m), Fred (50m), Pogba (88m), Lukaku (75m), Mkhitaryan (35m) and Sanchez. They also managed to keep Mou's plan B for another 3 years. Speaking of team's inheritance he could also rely on Mata, Shaw, Smalling, Depay (he's banging goals left right and center with Lyon/Holland) Martial and DDG which might look shabby to you but they all tend to do way better in their role then each and every Mou's signing. The latter two seem not too happy signing a new contract now. Team inheritance indeed.
Its not the club's fault that most of his signings turned to be crap and its neither the club's fault that most of our players had regressed this year. Also we should have enough talent to beat Derby and not to be behind Spurs, Bournemouth, Watford, Wolves and Everton. So the least he can do is stop living in the past and get on with his job.
If you ask me we should go and get an entire successful club's setup. That would mean 2-3 people who already know one another and would make the transition period easy. My first choice would be Marotta as joint CEO, Paratici/Ribalta as DOF and Zidane or Conte as manager. Alternatively we can go for Zorc and Favre from Dortmund.
Are they not performing or is the manager not performing? Pls be clear. Is this the way how Man Utd treat legends like what you said?
Mourinho should have gone when he started digs at all and sundry pre-season. It was so obvious then the season was going to be challenging. The upper management has to also take part of the responsibility for the mess United are in at the moment.
Juve was as embarrassing as it gets for a club of United's stature. It's not the result that was worrying but the manner and ease of the defeat.
Juve was as embarrassing as it gets for a club of United's stature. It's not the result that was worrying but the manner and ease of the defeat.
Should have been sacked the moment Ed lost confidence in him to name viable targets. That's what a forward thinking club would have done. Ed has allowed this situation to happen. Kept a manager who is known to be toxic when he doesn't get what he wants.
The club has no sense of self. No conviction in any decision it takes. We need a reorientation from top to bottom.
Results should always be evaluated in context
1. prior to Mourinho's arrival, Madrid had exited the CL at R16 for 6 consecutive seasons and won the league in only 2 of those 6 seasons. In his 3 seasons, he had 3 semi-finals in CL, won the league and CdR, all while competing against the Pep Barca that won 2 CLs in 3 seasons (pep reportedly left due to pressure from Mourinho). His work laid the foundation for the subsequent success by Madrid, with players like Carvajal, Nacho, and Morata being introduced by him, with Varane, Modric. In the 5 seasons, since he has left, despite all the CL success, Madrid has only won La liga once and CdR once. Mourinho's problem at Madrid was with Casillas (who was past it) and the influence players with personal relationships with Perez have always had (same Casillas was stilled benched by Ancelotti proving Mourinho right). Zidane's (who is probably the closest player ever to Perez and rumored to have gotten Camacho fired for asking him to simply his game) success was strongly fueled cos of his relationship with Perez ensured a strangle hold on the locker room.
2. At Chelsea, his brought back Matic and brought in Costa, which were two key players for their PL title and LC win his second season. He wanted to buy stones (who now starts for current champions Citeh) but was declined and things spriralled from their. Conte won in the PL in his first season (with the luxury of inheriting a title winning squad and no european committments) but failed to follow up the following season again due to being undermined by Chelsea backroom staff. Problem with chelsea has been shown to be the backroom staff not the coach and Saari will likely soon follow.
3. At united, while money has been spent, it is unfair to put the billdirectly on Mourinho when he is not the one negotiating the transfers. Still he has been more successful than his predecessors who won only one FA cup in 3 season and highest PL finish was 4th.
He has bought 2 CBs - Bailly and Lindelof both comparable and even cheaper than what some other teams have spent in that period.
- Citeh has since bought Stones and Laporte (despite having Kompany, Otamendi and Mangala) and spent large amount on Danilo, Walker and Mendy.
- Liverpool bought Van Dijk
- Chelsea bought Rudigere, and David Luis
-Sanchez and Matic were past the hill and the decline shouldnt be surprising. Unlike most, I never approved of their acquisitions and have never trusted Mou's judgement on specific players.
- Lukaku is what lukaku has always been and the only reason he cost that much was the lack of alternatives in the market. Neither lukaku nor morata should have cost as much as they did
- Mkhi was unfortunate and never really got into a consistent form but I dont see him lighting up the league for Arsenal. But at the time Mkhi joined, we couldnt attract top talent easily cos of no CL.
- Fred is too soon to judge and he did get his opportunities early on but didnt really stand out. He might just need time to adapt.
That Juve team has been to 2 CL finals in the last 4 seasons and have added CR. They will own most teams in Europe.
Given the performance from last season, this summer should have seen efforts to close the gap with Citeh, but instead only Fred and a Dalot were added. I will forgive the manager if he is not enthused.
Give Mourinho or any manager a quality squad and then criticize if he doesnt deliver. Managers arent miracle workers
Go back and read what you wrote. If you didn’t bring up net spend why they hell did you type net spend then?
He brought 10 players and only 4 were good? Name them and price them! I’ll trll you something if they were crap they didn’t cost £30 plus million. So maybe they just wasn’t sold as being all that. We keep saying Pep had unlimited funds yet we are still the club spending 80plus on Pogba and 75plus on Lukaku. I wonder how Poch feels when he hears Mourinho hasn’t been backed.
What exactly do we expect to happen with these partnerships?
Exactly this. Either the club were too cheap else they lost confidence in the manager and his targets but kept him on regardless, both scenarios are absolutely shocking with regards to running a successful football club.
As I said earlier, Mourinho gave up in July and should have walked himself also because his attitude since has been appalling.
Whatever happens, that United regularly start with Young, Smalling, Lindelöf in their back 4 is a sorry state of affairs.
He's got till December for me. If we're more than 6 points off the top 4, sack him and bring in someone else.
Yep I agree with you and @Adisa - what's even more annoying is that there were two very good managers avaible in the summer in Tuchel and Sarri.
It really does my head in knowing some people out there still don’t want him to get sacked. Jose can probably take a dump on them (inc. Woodward) and they would still support him at this stage, because not a single sane argument exists anymore for keeping him.
That first part really doesn't help you case one bit, fact is, that approach hasn't worked out with him before and there's absolutely no suggestion that it would have been any different with us.
Take Fred for example, 50 million player, yet isn't getting a sniff of action. Remember first few months during his first year when he didn't play Miki at all and he was one of his star signings he praised so much.
Problem with him is that he's always in that petulant child mode.
There’s the argument that sacking the manager mid season after not backing them the previous Summer is an easy get out for the board and masks deep rooted problems in the running of the club.
A well run club would’ve either moved Mourinho on the Summer or backed him to the hilt in the transfer market, ours did neither.
Now it’s so toxic I feel they should fire him, else he should quit because at least a new manager will just get on with the job rather than constantly making swipes at the board/club.
I don’t think they was cheap I just think they didn’t want to pay £50m for a aging Centre back. Neither did PSG. We say running a successful football club but what are we doing different to successfully run clubs except not sack our managers when they should be sacked?
It’s only a sorry state of affairs because the RB you brought him doesn’t play and he hasn’t developed any of the CB you got him let alone made the current ones more solid. LVG made Blind and Smalling look like Blanc and Thuram.
I wonder how the football world would have took that. Mourinho sacked during pre season. 5 months of what is going on at United, he finished second last season etc etc. G.Nev would have gone grey.
So then not cheap, but not trusting the manager targets. Which should lead to you moving him on.
Other top clubs either back their manager, or a get a new one, we did neither.
Who cares?
Chelsea didn’t sack him when they didn’t back him. Spurs didn’t sack Poch when they told him no funds available. Liverpool didn’t sack Klopp when they messed up VVD in the summer. So why would we? The board believed in him as a manager and believed he had sufficient tools to do his job. He did.
You do! Because it would have been you moaning your arse off in the summer if we sacked him.
Your moaning now because we didn’t back him. I for one don’t care he never got his center back. I couldn’t careless if we gave him no more money.
Two awful examples there. One is “no money”, why would you fire a top manager because you have no money? Wtf
And firing Klopp because you tried everything, on a grand tapping up scale to get his top target but messed up? And you promised to get him in Jan. So fire Klopp for that? What are these ridiculous examples?
Chelsea’s a great one, a pre-cursor for our board if you like.
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