Since when luck wasn't part of this sport ? Last I checked almost every football game in the world had percentage of luck in it. Weren't Spurs lucky Lukaku missed an open goal when it was 0-0 ?
Luck is a major part of football.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Since when luck wasn't part of this sport ? Last I checked almost every football game in the world had percentage of luck in it. Weren't Spurs lucky Lukaku missed an open goal when it was 0-0 ?
Luck is a major part of football.
Link to credible proof of this. Otherwise you’re just making stuff up.
The out lobby keep changing the reasons by the week. There are many reasons why you may want him gone that’s fine, but about 2-3 weeks ago this place was simply overflowing with messages of disbelief that he hasn’t been sacked since the dressing room has so obviously been ‘lost’. Two good performances later, where the relationship with the players feels good and the players are clearly digging deeper than they were versus let’s say Brighton, and most of those posts just look idiotic, so the reasons change again,
That’s the problem with most of the José out set, they just post hysterical nonsense, or made up rumours (see many threads in last few days) and when called out just act like nothing happened.
That’s not to say all will end up rosey but about 80% of the mourinho out content of a couple of weeks ago is just clear rubbish now. A lot of you are like shitty tabloid journalists, on to the next line of attack. It’s just an endless cycle rather than stepping back and saying hang on, the last 2 games have been decent, players and manager still showing some fight, lots of big games coming, maybe start backing the set up again.
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Nah, luck can take you only so far.
So you the players reactions of the last 2 games were pure luck ?
There
Maybe martial wanted to leave? Maybe his agent shopped him round? Maybe there was genuine unrest that is on its way towards working out? Doesn’t matter, the amount of people repaeating tabloid gossip as fact makes the site look like a YouTube comment section.
Maybe martial wanted to leave? Maybe his agent shopped him round? Maybe there was genuine unrest that is on its way towards working out? Doesn’t matter, the amount of people repaeating tabloid gossip as fact makes the site look like a YouTube comment section.
No, the players tried. But the results were good because of luck. That is, they weren't good because Jose motivated them to try hard or because tactics was spot on. Jose derserves little credit for those results. Luck will turn against him soon.
My expectation is that he won't finish this season as a United manager.
But they’re bad because the manager hasn’t motivated them?
So when players gave good reaction and got good results it's due to pure luck, but when we lose it's because the opponent outplayed us and luck wasn't on our side.
Agenda in its finest to be honest. Go and apply the same luck logic on other teams around first.
Because the manager hasn't coached them well.
But when we get good results, like most of last season or away at unbeaten and in form Chelsea, they’re still coached badly? And results are due to....? If we beat juventus this week, what will it be down to?
You are talking shit.
It's not like the team has performed well since the start of the season but was unlucky here and there.
8 conceded shots on target vs Newcastle. Add a pen that wasn't given or Newcastle. That's shockingly bad. Great reaction form the players! Playing gung-ho against the worse team in the league.
Yesterday Chelsea were comfortable better in the first half. Even in the second half DDG had to make world class saves. We created fewer chances than Arsenal, who scored 2 goals as well but missed about 3-4 clear chances.
9th in the league. With 16 conceded goals. Very well coached.
You’re posting like you’re having three conversations at once. You’re being incredibly contradictory and the logic is getting too low brow for my liking. I think I’ll leave you to discuss with other members, we have completely different ways of discussing football.
You're the one who is talking shite if your logic is that last 2 results were luck. Your agenda prevents you from giving credit to anyone. You have set the narrative that any good result we get is due to luck and any bad result is due to us being crap. Pointless to go any farther with such flawed logic. Even the hardest anti-Mourinho won't do it.
Chelsea weren't "comfortably" better in first half. They scored from their only shot from a set piece and didn't create anything to score. They were equally shite as us in first half. Both teams upped their form in second half but I guess you were busy moaning in first half than actually watching the real game.
Anyway, as I said pointless to go any farther in this dicussion with such laughable logic of luck.
Well why do I have to believe your theory? If that’s the case nothing is every true, we will just be going round and round with no answers.
The fact of the matter is his agent said he was willing to go and I don’t remember Jose coming out and trying to convince him to stay like Fellaini. So maybe he was happy for him to go, like most were saying. Also maybe he was happy to replace him with Perisic and Willian like most were saying too. But as he’s playing well, it’s all crap; when he’s having a bad patch again it will all be true. Just how it works on here on YouTube Cafe.
Well, I'm nost very interested in discussing with you either.
You don’t have to and yes, in that case nothing might ever be true. So it’s best of posters don’t try make definitive arguments when their source is a gut feeling and newspaper best used as toilet paper.
Well at least we’ve found common ground
Last season we must have been a fantastically coached team. We came second, got 81 points and got to the cup final. Or no, a different metric is used when considering a positive claim.
Obviously there is some truth somewhere. It’s all easy saying never believe in nothing, but that’s just being naive. Why support the club like that, just leaves you acceptable for anything.
It’s like those that didn’t want to believe Pogba and Mourinho didn’t have a problem until the camera’s showed it? It’s silly. The evidence is there for Martial I don’t need the cameras to tell me this neither do other posters. Maybe you need a phone call from Mourinho to brief you. That’s up to you.
I’m not naive. It’s clear all was not well with martial In summer and that he might have left. My own gut feeling is that he was frustrated at being ousted by Sanchez who was underperforming and his agent shopped him and put some pressure on united to define his role and future. That’s just what I think is most likely. Could be anything, but my own feeling is that mourinho was aggressively trying to swap him directly for Willian is absurd. An absurd transfer that would never happen, a rarity in English football and based on nothing. Martial looked pretty chummy with mourinho yesterday from what I saw.
Not sure why Pogba is being mentioned, I also think there is a tension between them that might worsen, might ease, or might be secondary to both working well as professionals. Funnily I think the video you refer to is evidence of nothing really, the type of thing I imagine happens on training grounds all over the world with such regularity people in the game barely bat an eyelid. But that brings me back to the trash media mindset many seem happy to adopt. Direct swaps and training ground ‘bust ups’ and lost dressing rooms and bullied players, despite no real evidence of it anywhere. No fact, no proof. Just lots of hysteria. Now why people follow a club that way is what I’d ask? But I personally don’t
But his agent clearly said Martial wanted to leave. And he also stated that - 1) Martial had nothing against the club or the fans who supported him, 2) that Martial was sidelined when Sanchez was bought. So who in your opinion was being blamed here - Sanchez, Club (Ed), Fans --- or Mourinho? And are his agent's words also not something that is definitively credible?
As someone also pointed out, remember how Mourinho was publicly begging for Fellaini to extend his contract. But when asked about Martial, he gave the standard reply, "Not all players in a squad are always happy, those who want to leave can do so blah blah". He never ruled out an exit for Martial. The chase for Perisic and the purchase of Sanchez was to replace Martial, and this makes the rumored Willian-Martial swap deal seem to have some ground.
Basically, you are hiding behind the excuse of "toilet paper sources" in your bid to exonerate Jose of all blame.
See, If one is biased, then he tends to make wrong predictions. You can see my perdictions about Jose at United already before he was appointed. And you can see the history of my posts and tell for yourself whether they are wide off the mark or not. Basically, most of my predictions have been on the money. Coming a distant 2nd last season didn't prove me wrong one bit.
Football is not easy to predict though and that's a great thing. So let us see what happens over the next months.
Putting result aside, are you happy with how we play? Genuine question.
I’m not ‘exonerating’ anything,see my post above regarding the situation. The fellaini situation is very different not least because of his contract. There’s a whole lot of speculation and conjecture in your post. All I have said is that claiming as fact that mourinho wanted to swap martial out for an older player is just stupid. There’s no evidence at all that that’s what was happening. Planned to happen. Why martial might leave. It’s just hysteria. And if Sanchez was to ‘replace’ martial, why the hell was he after Willian then? Gossip and guesswork. It’s not what I choose to live by. Enjoy.
Lets not forget that we played like our usual negative selves until we went behind. Then we played.. and we played well. We look so good at times but jose' style is a disgrace. If only we start every game how we played in the 2nd half yesterday.
There is an argument that it was Chelsea away and we all know how that normally goes but it is every game we play. I believe our players are desperate to be releived of all of Jose's tactical restrictions.
Martial or Rashford shouldnt be expected to be anywhere near our back line.. Lukaku is desperate to be fed balls in the box or over the top to run onto. Sanchez needs a free role and were screaming out for a more fluid and mobile midfield. And we have the players for that too. Andreas, Fred and pogba would be better than Matic, Fellaini and Pogba in my opinion. Too many things wrong with the set up..
There is an argument that it was Chelsea away and we all know how that normally goes but it is every game we play. I believe our players are desperate to be releived of all of Jose's tactical restrictions.
Martial or Rashford shouldnt be expected to be anywhere near our back line.. Lukaku is desperate to be fed balls in the box or over the top to run onto. Sanchez needs a free role and were screaming out for a more fluid and mobile midfield. And we have the players for that too. Andreas, Fred and pogba would be better than Matic, Fellaini and Pogba in my opinion. Too many things wrong with the set up..
There was nothing different about Fellaini's situation other than the fact that Mourinho considered him more valuable than Martial.
Willian plays on the right. Mourinho wanted a Perisic/Sanchez-Lukaku-Willian attack. With Rashford as 2nd back-up, he was keen to ship out Martial. There was no doubt about it.
The Willian-Martial swap btw, was reported by RMC, who are close to Martial's agent and also were the first to report Martial's move to United, his unhappiness and basically all correct news regarding him. His agent also speaks to them on most occasions to make public statements.
Sorry, the basis of my posts have been that making points as fact, that are just speculation, is something foolish to engage in. You have responded with consecutive speculative points stated as fact. Almost like you’re taking the piss. No point discussing it further. People can state it as fact if they like I suppose, it probably vindicates them in some way. But it doesn’t make it so.
That’s all from me.
Just telling you my point was right, as I said everything can change and with a win or draw against jive, then v Everton n Bournemouth, what so funny about that?Wait, are you complimenting your own posts?
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I’m calling the naive because you seem to think anything negative and quite simply stupid, does not exist, when clearly stuff like this happens. It’s not just our club but we are only interested in our club. There are many factual stories of players falling out with the manager, threatening to leave, managers doing the same telling them they are gone etc etc. Just because it doesn’t suite your opinions doesn’t mean it’s not true. For instance I take your point on the Pogba incident but I’m quite sure too he doesn’t like Mourinho and they’ve probably done worse than what we’ve seen. Will he ever tell the public this probably not unless his funds run low and wants to sell a book when he’s in his 40’s.
But the Point was Mourinho and Martial wanted shot of eachother and I’m sure Mourinho drew up replacements. I’m also sure that one of those replacements was Willian, so what is wrong with what posters have said about the move?
I feel like backing him because I hate Chelsea so much, I would love for him to do well for us infront of them.
So his achievements have no relevance, but his failures do?
Yes when he’s failing.
Not because you want Manchester United to do well?
We need a fresh approach, but we can't panic into yet another wrong managerial decision.
I'm all for getting rid, but not if it means getting Zidane or whoever is available right now for the sake of it.
Jardim may be the right person, not really soon his style of play, so maybe the time is now, but maybe it isn't
We need to get this illusive DoF into the setup before anything else. Ed's footballing brain lacks, and we definitely need a fresh approach.
Ed can even make up a title to feel important, as long as we give the DoF and Manager the freedom to do what they want.
We've actually got a good squad, which is lacking a capable defence. Put one to our attacks and let them attack and you'd see an entertaining successful United side.
We've seen this side in the last 2 matches, after half time, when
A. We should have already been out of sight
B. We're losing
C. We attack for the win
We should forget A and B and start games with C. We're a much better side for it. Our best players are all attacking ones, so lets play to our strengths.
Our pressure to win the ball is pathetic. Our willingness to let our full backs get forward and support attacks is abysmal. Basically our Plan A tactic is something used be teams heavily underdogs.
This is down to the man in charge. He needs to realise this, realise what we can do when we attack or just go.
Pogba in that first half yesterday was non existent. Second half he played like a monster. Carrying the ball from midfield to attack. Out muscling players in his runs. We need that Pogba, not the Pogba that is told to just stand 30yrds from his box and act as a body to make it difficult for teams to get passed.
Martial, Pogba, De Gea - These 3, for different reasons, why would they want to stay right now. Imagine losing these because of Mourinho. The same Mourinho that is doing a bad job in the first place.
TL;DR
We need a new manager, one that attacks, uses our best players, but I don't want us to rush getting rid of him until we make the right choice of manager
I'm all for getting rid, but not if it means getting Zidane or whoever is available right now for the sake of it.
Jardim may be the right person, not really soon his style of play, so maybe the time is now, but maybe it isn't
We need to get this illusive DoF into the setup before anything else. Ed's footballing brain lacks, and we definitely need a fresh approach.
Ed can even make up a title to feel important, as long as we give the DoF and Manager the freedom to do what they want.
We've actually got a good squad, which is lacking a capable defence. Put one to our attacks and let them attack and you'd see an entertaining successful United side.
We've seen this side in the last 2 matches, after half time, when
A. We should have already been out of sight
B. We're losing
C. We attack for the win
We should forget A and B and start games with C. We're a much better side for it. Our best players are all attacking ones, so lets play to our strengths.
Our pressure to win the ball is pathetic. Our willingness to let our full backs get forward and support attacks is abysmal. Basically our Plan A tactic is something used be teams heavily underdogs.
This is down to the man in charge. He needs to realise this, realise what we can do when we attack or just go.
Pogba in that first half yesterday was non existent. Second half he played like a monster. Carrying the ball from midfield to attack. Out muscling players in his runs. We need that Pogba, not the Pogba that is told to just stand 30yrds from his box and act as a body to make it difficult for teams to get passed.
Martial, Pogba, De Gea - These 3, for different reasons, why would they want to stay right now. Imagine losing these because of Mourinho. The same Mourinho that is doing a bad job in the first place.
TL;DR
We need a new manager, one that attacks, uses our best players, but I don't want us to rush getting rid of him until we make the right choice of manager
Thats called cherry picking, and it will never win an argument. you cant point to one team he worked at previously and say "look, look he did bad!" and ignore everything else.
Heres how the conversation went, stop me if you think it sounds stupid as feck:
"The way hes set us up and has us playing is terrible, it will never work!"
"It worked at inter when they won the treble."
"Who cares, thats not relevant!"
See how stupid and full of bias that looks? You might have an argument for why what works at inter wont work here, but to just say "Its not relevant!"? Sorry, youll convince no one with that shit.
A carefull, passive approach clearly isn't working with these players so maybe the best thing for Mourinho would be to go outside his comfort zone and go with an attacking intent more often.
He will not have a job here next season if he continues with his reactive football so nothing to lose really.
He will not have a job here next season if he continues with his reactive football so nothing to lose really.
Goes without saying.
I’ve come across as quite anti Jose of late and it’s not my intention. He’s got the CV which proves he was a great manager throughout his career.
But I just don’t think he’s the right fit for United. Sir Bobby didn’t want him here and for good reason.
He’s a trouble maker and his football isn’t exciting enough to keep him here long term. IF he starts the next league game with attacking intent, the one after that and then the game after that I will change my tune on him.
But I fear that he’s more of a reactionary manager than a head coach who sets out to control a match from kick off and even at 2-1 up, wants to still go for more goals and kill the game.
I’m sick and tired watching us retreat to an extremely deep defensive line every single time we’re just a goal up. It’s negative and inviting pressure simply breeds fear amongst our defence.
Look at Aston Villa yesterday. They got rid of negative Steve Bruce and brought in Dean Smith who had Brentford playing some lovely football. Yes, Brentford. A few weeks ago Villa were sat deep, conceding too many goals and looking nervous in defence every time opposition atracked them.
Yesterday, Smith pushed their line high and attacked his opponent. They won the game and should have scored more.
My point is, no team fears us anymore because we are the side that looks scared and not in control. And this comes from Jose Mourinho, not Woodward or the Glazers.
But I just don’t think he’s the right fit for United. Sir Bobby didn’t want him here and for good reason.
He’s a trouble maker and his football isn’t exciting enough to keep him here long term. IF he starts the next league game with attacking intent, the one after that and then the game after that I will change my tune on him.
But I fear that he’s more of a reactionary manager than a head coach who sets out to control a match from kick off and even at 2-1 up, wants to still go for more goals and kill the game.
I’m sick and tired watching us retreat to an extremely deep defensive line every single time we’re just a goal up. It’s negative and inviting pressure simply breeds fear amongst our defence.
Look at Aston Villa yesterday. They got rid of negative Steve Bruce and brought in Dean Smith who had Brentford playing some lovely football. Yes, Brentford. A few weeks ago Villa were sat deep, conceding too many goals and looking nervous in defence every time opposition atracked them.
Yesterday, Smith pushed their line high and attacked his opponent. They won the game and should have scored more.
My point is, no team fears us anymore because we are the side that looks scared and not in control. And this comes from Jose Mourinho, not Woodward or the Glazers.
Clinging on to that?? It was 8 years ago not 80. GTFO with your cherry picking arguments.
long term (end of season) he's going unless he does something completely fantastic and there's nothing to suggest he could
to keep his job he'd need to push City hard for the title and we aren't going to have the quality or consistency to do that
I think despite two good results in our last couple of games which gave us lots of positivity there's a couple of things to keep in mind. We were awful for 65 mins against Newcastle and the first half yesterday was shite to a large degree also. Chelsea were not great yesterday either (obviously we had a part to play in that)
culturally I don't think Jose is part of a vision for a Manchester United moving forward. We obviously need a coach who is more positive, a better man manager, more attacking etc...at the minute Jose is the right man for the job but potentially we could be 20 points behind City by Christmas - I think we should sack him at the point where it seems obvious a caretaker manager would do better
to keep his job he'd need to push City hard for the title and we aren't going to have the quality or consistency to do that
I think despite two good results in our last couple of games which gave us lots of positivity there's a couple of things to keep in mind. We were awful for 65 mins against Newcastle and the first half yesterday was shite to a large degree also. Chelsea were not great yesterday either (obviously we had a part to play in that)
culturally I don't think Jose is part of a vision for a Manchester United moving forward. We obviously need a coach who is more positive, a better man manager, more attacking etc...at the minute Jose is the right man for the job but potentially we could be 20 points behind City by Christmas - I think we should sack him at the point where it seems obvious a caretaker manager would do better
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