You've been going on about Pogba for some pages in a Mourinho thread, its weird, like you irked people want Jose out instead of Pogba
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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You've been going on about Pogba for some pages in a Mourinho thread, its weird, like you irked people want Jose out instead of Pogba
Good night sweet prince x
Hopefully this Pogba thing dies down so we can get back to discussing the real issues- the poor quality of football, slipping results, underperforming squad and routinely getting outplayed by inferior opposition
Indeed
Again I proved my point, when faced with actual facs, you just turn your back and ignore it, dismissing it all because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Well if you read back a little further my friend you'll see that it wasn't me that brought up the subject of Pogba - I've just been responding to loons that completely absolved him of any blame in order to lay it entirely on Mourinho's shoulders.
You wouldn't know a point if it bit you on the arse!
more liesYou guys quoting @VP89 must be new here or something. As for the whole Pogba nonsense yes he's not been as good as we would have hoped, but let's not throw him out before we try him under a new manager. Mourinho would have had Hazard sold too if he had his way
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Both need to go
Get someone in
Start again, basically begin the transition all over again like Fergie just left last season, we are a laughing stock rival fans and the media are loving it.
The drama, the comedy has to stop and there is only one way to do that get rid of both war mongering clowns and begin the process again.
Get someone in
Start again, basically begin the transition all over again like Fergie just left last season, we are a laughing stock rival fans and the media are loving it.
The drama, the comedy has to stop and there is only one way to do that get rid of both war mongering clowns and begin the process again.
And you're pointless.
This thread eerily reads the same as the last pages of the Chelsea forums just before Jose was sacked after the Leicester game.
I don't care about Jose, or Pogba. But what I do know is this will all end badly for the pair of them and United will soldier on. Thankfully.
People get too attached to a player (Pogba, Martial) or a manager (Jose, Pochettino) and sometimes forget what's most important. 1. The Club and 2. It's fans.
The bickering and in-fighting on here and from matchgoing fans on Twitter shows that we're officially a divided fanbase right now. Arsenal were the same under Wenger's last days and Chelsea the same in Jose's last days. Sadly, we're no different these days and some people are getting heated and abusive when trying to put their points across.
There's no need to get personal or hate anyone over all of this. A decision will be made sooner or later. And we'll all have to accept whatever decision Woody and the owners make.
I don't care about Jose, or Pogba. But what I do know is this will all end badly for the pair of them and United will soldier on. Thankfully.
People get too attached to a player (Pogba, Martial) or a manager (Jose, Pochettino) and sometimes forget what's most important. 1. The Club and 2. It's fans.
The bickering and in-fighting on here and from matchgoing fans on Twitter shows that we're officially a divided fanbase right now. Arsenal were the same under Wenger's last days and Chelsea the same in Jose's last days. Sadly, we're no different these days and some people are getting heated and abusive when trying to put their points across.
There's no need to get personal or hate anyone over all of this. A decision will be made sooner or later. And we'll all have to accept whatever decision Woody and the owners make.
Problem is if you keep pogba and sack jose then that gives players a sense of power, both have to go.
otherwise who's to say pogba will get on with the next manager.
otherwise who's to say pogba will get on with the next manager.
You clearly don't know what I think about Pogba do you
Pointless debate with me I'm afraid, I complained he wasn't worth the fee before he kicked a ball for us. I didn't think he was world class then and he ain't even close now.
As for Hazard, doubt it.
Not really. If we sack José right now yes I agree, it would set a precedent that a player is bigger than a manager / club. But if you sack him later down the road so that it’s clear the sack in is due to performance and not player power, no worries.
The second time? When was the first? Surely you’re not talking about when he was young and felt his future were better elsewhere because he wasn’t getting a game? I can’t remember who it was who was played in his place that day Fabio de Silva? He accepted he wasn’t gonna get in the midfield when it was stacked but when half the players were out and he was still left on the sidelines I guess he thought why bother staying if I’m never gonna get a chance. So he went to Juve, another huge club where he would get a game. I don’t see how that was taking us for a ride?
Not really. When he said that I just thought about what he meant rather than the actual words. The guy isn’t a native speaker. The same way Pogba said attitude when he probably meant intensity. Jose simply said Seville had a better recent European record than us. Which they do. He wasn’t attacking the whole heritage of the club and saying they were bigger and better than us. Of course we have a much better heritage. He joined because of our heritage for Christ’s sake. He simply meant recent history. So we have as much right to beat him over his words as the Pogba haters have over his. None whatsoever. Just because the press are assholes, doesn’t mean we have to join them.
They should both go, and it does not even feel like a difficult decision to me. It won't happen, Woodward is too infatuated with star names, glamour and the cult of individual personalities.
Our obsession with that has been one of the key problems in recent years, chasing unrealistic transfers in a desperate bid to appear relevant, appointing managers with names, history and clout but not working through the issue of their suitability for Utd. LVG building something, putting in place certain processes was clearly not something the board cared about, or they would have replaced him with someone with a similar vision and tried again. He became the manager because of his name, not because the club identified something in his style to fit the needs of the club. Same with Mourinho, a name but his approach was always going to be divisive.
We need to get back to building something solid and sustainable, identify the right type of players who are not just names, but who can play together and have the character to represent the club.
Our obsession with that has been one of the key problems in recent years, chasing unrealistic transfers in a desperate bid to appear relevant, appointing managers with names, history and clout but not working through the issue of their suitability for Utd. LVG building something, putting in place certain processes was clearly not something the board cared about, or they would have replaced him with someone with a similar vision and tried again. He became the manager because of his name, not because the club identified something in his style to fit the needs of the club. Same with Mourinho, a name but his approach was always going to be divisive.
We need to get back to building something solid and sustainable, identify the right type of players who are not just names, but who can play together and have the character to represent the club.
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Spot on!
So United have won the UCL only 3 times he was talking about recent history?
When he talked about knocking United out of the UCL with Porto he was talking about recent history?
So so true! You know me very well. Whilst I assume you were the type of fan that assumed Jose was the key to success at United & also the best guy to take over from. LVG
oops
He was and I still maintain that. Look at the squad we had, who else would have done much better?
Totally agree. So why do you think they backed him by extending his contract? And why hire a manager known for working mainly with established stars if you want him to develop the youth? Or veto defensive buys from the most famous defensive manager of all? If there’s anyone José was good at it was spotting and making the best of defensive talent. Which is why it’s so surprising that our defence has so completely fallen apart.
None of what Woodward has done or is doing makes sense.
A one year extention in order to ensure he wasn't going into a season with a year left? Hardly an endorsement.
Maybe neither was the right man.
So United have won the UCL only 3 times he was talking about recent history?
When he talked about knocking United out of the UCL with Porto he was talking about recent history?
No at that point he lost it and it was about his ego. He has to justify himself because he was getting hammered by the press. The beginning of that was basically him saying look Seville are not as shit as you think they are. They have done well recently, better than us.
That was the heritage part. After that he went off on one justifying his record as a manager. I’m only talking about the heritage remark.
[/QUOTE]Top four is fine in this situation for me personally, I'm not Mou in or out though. I'm Mou patient, if he went I'd go 'fair enough, who you got for us this time Ed?' and if he stayed I'd be looking at Ed going 'so you're actually gonna work with him to fix the squad yeah? No vinegar stroke marketing bonanza players? Actual hard working players that want to be here on sensible wages that give a bollock?...'
The squad is a reeking mess full of left over players from SAF's time, players grossly overpaid for what they should earn for the effort they put in and the responsibility they shoulder. There are a bunch of players rammed in there that can't be dropped for fear of paper and fan backlash. I don't know how you can manage under-performing players while having to play them non-stop for other external reasons. I'm not even 100% convinced he's in control of transfers. The end of the window seemed to just be an Ed Woodward "/stubbs ciggy on the ground. Nup sorry mate couldn't get anyone in for ya, good luck this season" when it was clear we are about three or four player swaps and one or two regular players away from having a properly balanced squad at the very minimum.
IF (and it is a big if) Pogba wasn't at this club and this whole thing was going absolutely shite like it is on field, THEN I would be more upset with Mourinho but Pogba is completely under-performing for his stake on the wage bill AND he seemingly is untouchable at board, managerial, marketing and fan level. How on earth do you even make that work on the field? He can down tools and give up all responsibilites whenever he feels like and nobody seems to bat an eyelid. Everybody just defaults to "MOURINHOS FAULLLTTTTTTTT". The players could literally walk up beside posters and go "YEAH ITS HIS FAULT!" and leave after a match without a care in the world. A ridiculous scenario.
There are so many unanswered weirdities with this squad and this club at the moment. If Ed Woodward came out and said right we're going to assemble a crop of talent scouts and football development heads and throw them in a building at Carrington to work on the mid/long term development of player strategy and development and Mourinho plugs into that group and then Ed releases the funds then I'd be happy. If Ed said "I'm stepping down from all player recruitment and letting Mourinho do all of the scouting/recruiting and releasing funds for him" then I'd be happy to see Mourinho continue.
But right now the whole thing is a farcical mess. If three layers of the team aren't working properly then how is Mourinho who is sandwiched in the middle supposed to get anything done with this crop of massively overpaid responsibility shirking pussies?[/QUOTE]
Mate this is not a bad answer and I understand your rationale. But there are a few points in Mou’s disfavour.
1. The playing staff is a mess.
But there’s to a large extent Mou’s fault. You can arguably say Mou wasn’t backed FULLY this summer. But he was still backed to the tune of around 90m with Fred, Dalot and Grant. Nothing to shout about but still reinforcement. In the previous 4 windows he was backed fully and I don’t think anyone can argue other wise.
2. Pogba. For me, Pogba is an bonafide ass who has not done nearly enough to justify his price tag. That said, he is talent wise amazing and Mou could have handled him better. The olive branch he extended at the beginning of this season was a little bit too late and too transparent (because he knows he is stuck with Pogba). He could have done a lot of things to calm the relationship over the summer during the WC (maybe throw Pogba a bone by complementing him when Mou was a commentator on RT).
3. Man management and overal attitude and demeanour.
He does not conduct himself as a Man United manager should. I am not even talking about his playing style or tactics. But just general demeanour and, man, stop throwing your players under the fecking bus all the time and take some responsibility when you’ve screwed up the tactics. Own up and also enjoy the responsibility of being the United manager.
Don’t want to turn this into a rant as it’s a discussion. I hope Mou turns it around (though I’m slight in the out camp but he should be given this year barring an implosion) as I dread another complete rebuild.
What I do agree with you on is the Glazers, if they effin care at all, need to look at the operational and management structure of the club from Ed and downwards. It’s clearly dysfunctional. Even money men like themselves surely must realise that United is popular because we win trophies, or used to. Not because of effing Pogba.
The squad is a reeking mess full of left over players from SAF's time, players grossly overpaid for what they should earn for the effort they put in and the responsibility they shoulder. There are a bunch of players rammed in there that can't be dropped for fear of paper and fan backlash. I don't know how you can manage under-performing players while having to play them non-stop for other external reasons. I'm not even 100% convinced he's in control of transfers. The end of the window seemed to just be an Ed Woodward "/stubbs ciggy on the ground. Nup sorry mate couldn't get anyone in for ya, good luck this season" when it was clear we are about three or four player swaps and one or two regular players away from having a properly balanced squad at the very minimum.
IF (and it is a big if) Pogba wasn't at this club and this whole thing was going absolutely shite like it is on field, THEN I would be more upset with Mourinho but Pogba is completely under-performing for his stake on the wage bill AND he seemingly is untouchable at board, managerial, marketing and fan level. How on earth do you even make that work on the field? He can down tools and give up all responsibilites whenever he feels like and nobody seems to bat an eyelid. Everybody just defaults to "MOURINHOS FAULLLTTTTTTTT". The players could literally walk up beside posters and go "YEAH ITS HIS FAULT!" and leave after a match without a care in the world. A ridiculous scenario.
There are so many unanswered weirdities with this squad and this club at the moment. If Ed Woodward came out and said right we're going to assemble a crop of talent scouts and football development heads and throw them in a building at Carrington to work on the mid/long term development of player strategy and development and Mourinho plugs into that group and then Ed releases the funds then I'd be happy. If Ed said "I'm stepping down from all player recruitment and letting Mourinho do all of the scouting/recruiting and releasing funds for him" then I'd be happy to see Mourinho continue.
But right now the whole thing is a farcical mess. If three layers of the team aren't working properly then how is Mourinho who is sandwiched in the middle supposed to get anything done with this crop of massively overpaid responsibility shirking pussies?[/QUOTE]
Mate this is not a bad answer and I understand your rationale. But there are a few points in Mou’s disfavour.
1. The playing staff is a mess.
But there’s to a large extent Mou’s fault. You can arguably say Mou wasn’t backed FULLY this summer. But he was still backed to the tune of around 90m with Fred, Dalot and Grant. Nothing to shout about but still reinforcement. In the previous 4 windows he was backed fully and I don’t think anyone can argue other wise.
2. Pogba. For me, Pogba is an bonafide ass who has not done nearly enough to justify his price tag. That said, he is talent wise amazing and Mou could have handled him better. The olive branch he extended at the beginning of this season was a little bit too late and too transparent (because he knows he is stuck with Pogba). He could have done a lot of things to calm the relationship over the summer during the WC (maybe throw Pogba a bone by complementing him when Mou was a commentator on RT).
3. Man management and overal attitude and demeanour.
He does not conduct himself as a Man United manager should. I am not even talking about his playing style or tactics. But just general demeanour and, man, stop throwing your players under the fecking bus all the time and take some responsibility when you’ve screwed up the tactics. Own up and also enjoy the responsibility of being the United manager.
Don’t want to turn this into a rant as it’s a discussion. I hope Mou turns it around (though I’m slight in the out camp but he should be given this year barring an implosion) as I dread another complete rebuild.
What I do agree with you on is the Glazers, if they effin care at all, need to look at the operational and management structure of the club from Ed and downwards. It’s clearly dysfunctional. Even money men like themselves surely must realise that United is popular because we win trophies, or used to. Not because of effing Pogba.
He won't last this season.
But fear is what damage he will do before he is ultimately fired.
But fear is what damage he will do before he is ultimately fired.
He didn’t say heritage once. It was all part of the same rant he went on.
Then maybe I watch it again. I just think quite a bit of stuff gets lost in translation. Deliberately so in most cases. Then the press spin it and everyone runs with it. Like now they’re still talking about Pogba as captain saying they went in with the wrong attitude, when I think he meant intensity.
And I take your point on it not being a ringing endorsement. I guess proof that Ed is not as toothless as we think. Clearly he is a pretty ruthless businessman. Just not a football man.
I still do not get why he didn’t let us buy Alderweireld? I really do believe he woulda made such a difference to our football. And coulda really taught our young players. Instead they are all sinking together. Good for no one.
You'd be hard pressed to find someone that wants to keep him if we finish in the EL places. It's perfectly reasonable to expect top 4 from him, since Spurs spent no money and Arsenal are doing a massive rebuild.
In all fairness if this is the case than basically the only reason for this argument to stand is that we should be finishing inside top4 is more due to the lack of competition for top4 spots alongside City, Pool, Chelsea and us than our manager having the quality to put us there.
Not like we're paying him 15 million per season.
Possibly. But hiring Moyes was criminal.
Protecting his own job to an extent? Sacking another manager and the massive pay off that comes with it is a bad look for Woodward. He needs Mourinho to succeed, he is not the owner, he is just an employee. That does raise the question of turning down some of his requests in the Summer though, how bad are things really behind the scenes, who is advising Woodward on football matters?
At least Gill had a certain feel for the game, Woodward is just a business man, he doesn't get Utd the football club.
I agree.
However the post Sevilla press conference, there was no ambiguity. Jose launched a defence of himself at the expense of the club.
With regards to Alderweireld the simple answer is what makes you think Spurs were willing to do business reasonably? Remember the rumour was that they demanded Martial in the deal.
You clearly don't know what I think about Pogba do you
Pointless debate with me I'm afraid, I complained he wasn't worth the fee before he kicked a ball for us. I didn't think he was world class then and he ain't even close now.
As for Hazard, doubt it.
Not Pogba, I definitely know what you think about Mourinho. That's what I meant
As for Pogba I don't really know what all the bickering is about. We can feck him off next season or whenever if he doesn't get his head out of his arse. Everything that's happening now boils down to the fact that we're crap at the moment. If we were topping the table playing beautiful football Jose could walk into the pitch mid game and give Pogba a headbutt and it will be hailed as genius man management. If whatever you are doing is working no one gives a shit, did you see what Pep did with Yaya and even Hart, it was dumb as hell but hey, he won the league with 100 points so who cares? Definitely not City fans. If we were playing well winning stuff you think no one would care about Pogba wanting to leave, if he was not up to par he'd be dropped and sold subsequently. But as of now he's pretty much our best play even in his crap form. Without him we'd probably spend games without passing forward, he's the only one who offers something else apart from sideways passing. It's common sense to see how he does under a different manager, after all like I said before Hazard was shite under Jose too. Jose is the immediate problem, if Pogba is crap under the next manager then of course he'd be sold, how is this an issue?
Toby or Fathead wouldn't make much difference to the start we've had. It's such a pointless argument. Might have got a draw against Brighton or something.
Our issues are at the other end of the pitch and we clearly don't look like we're coached/drilled at all.
Our issues are at the other end of the pitch and we clearly don't look like we're coached/drilled at all.
The toxic atomsphere surrounding the dressing will only get worse the longer Jose remains in charge.
In any case, I don't think he will last as long as some people fear. His sacking could be as early as tomorrow should we lose against West Ham.
The most frustrating ones are the - both should go blah blah blah. So sack your manager and sell your best player, where would that one even get us to?
I wonder where Madrid would be if they sold all the players that fell out with Mourinho whilst sacking him or where Chelsea would be if they sold Hazard, Fab etc and sacked Mourinho too.
Another frustrating thing is that it is still that same Mourinho. Madrid and Chelsea got rid of him, reaped and are still reaping the rewards. I don't know while people are still defending Mourinho at this point. We are going only one way and that is towards the relegation zone.
I wonder where Madrid would be if they sold all the players that fell out with Mourinho whilst sacking him or where Chelsea would be if they sold Hazard, Fab etc and sacked Mourinho too.
Another frustrating thing is that it is still that same Mourinho. Madrid and Chelsea got rid of him, reaped and are still reaping the rewards. I don't know while people are still defending Mourinho at this point. We are going only one way and that is towards the relegation zone.
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Didn’t Woodward come out and say they didn’t buy Alderweireld because he didn’t think he was better than who we had already.?
Meanwhile, I just watched the heritage “rant.”
Jose doesn’t even talk about heritage. He talks about football heritage. It’s no way near as bad as people make out. Hes basically explaining that it’s a process. And why it takes time. Yes, part of it is him defending himself. Because he has a big ego and he is a proud man. I really think stuff gets spun and then people swallow it.
For me what he says is true. We like to think we’re a big club and of course we are. But we haven’t done well in Europe in recent times. That’s a fact. Under 4 different managers too.
We shouldn’t have played like we did against Seville. For me that was the issue. Not his words.
I'd be willing to bet a lot there's almost no chance of him getting sacked if we lose tomorrow.
What about if we lose 8-0 and Mourinho bitch slaps Carrick?
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