The MMA thread
- Thread starter Fortitude
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If you think that defeat doesn't cross his mind you're delusional. I'm not one to argue that Conor is an MMA great, but you're arguing that he's a chump off the back of one loss is as bad as his fans making him out to be invincible. He talks shite pre fight to promote the fight and make money, which he has done in spades. But he's obviously a very good fighter and has put his whole life into the game. To think of him as someone who walks around believing they are a god who can't be beaten is ludicrous. This will dent his confidence no doubt, but you'll see the same McGregor before his next fight. He'll still be talking like he's a god and unbeatable, because it sells fights. That doesn't mean he believes he's invincible.
You seem to be classing anyone who thinks McGregor is a good fighter all together as "McNut-huggers", because a couple of people in this thread and a few on twitter and facebook talk about him like he's a god. Most reasonable McGregor fans have acknowledged his flaws. Ackowledged how he was in trouble against Mendez until he ran out of steam. Acknowledged that while the knockout against Aldo can't be questioned, it didn't give us a real answer because the fight was over before it started.
In more than one interview with Diaz pre-fight I saw him say he is always ready to fight. Yeah, McGregor said the same. I don't see how that affects what I said about Diaz saying he's always ready though. He said he was ready to fight and he proved as much.
It's all speculation though. How do you know he won't come back better? In all honesty it just sounds like you don't like him that much and are thinking the worst will happen. I thought he'd lose to RDA but then i thought he'd lose to Aldo as well so it's impossible to say.
I don't think he's this great fighter but I do think he deserves an opportunity to prove himself again, he shouldn't of been shoe horned into s title fight but why would he turn it down? Diaz said the same thing, he'd take the chances Conor got if it was him getting them.
That's unfair again he's in the UFC cos he's a good fighter and belongs there. His imagine helps yeah but let's not pretend he's got some terrible record. He's given other fighters exposure, it's now on them to exploit that and make them worth watching. They can't just hang on to his coat tails forever. They should exploit the opportunity they've been given. I hope someone like Nate does for example and am sure he will try to.
No top fighter going into a fight will think of what happens if they lose, they always imagine victory and that will be doubly so for a guy like Mcgregor.
I don't think he is a good enough fighter to be challenging for LW and WW titles. I don't even think he is a great FW champion and wouldn't be surprised if he loses his next defense. He only had two great wins, one against a guy who wasn't ready for the fight and the other against a guy who he mentally broke down for the past year. With this loss, the mental edge he has over Aldo won't be as much and he will have to rely on his larger body. The only thing great about him is his incredible ability to cut lots of weight.
His ground game is shit, his stamina is poor, his chin is nothing special, his punching power has been proven to be not this amazing thing but rather a natural size advantage. His takedown defence is poor and he has his hands down whilst he fights.
He is very one dimensional and whilst very good at certain things, he isn't a good enough fighter to warrant the fights he had lined up.
All valid opinions but not really relevant to what we were talking about. You said you reckon he thought he was unbeatable. Now obviously coming into a fight, you don't want negative thoughts, so he'd have been thinking about the win. I'm saying though, if you think that Conor McGregor genuinely though he was unbeatable fighter then you're delusional. Why does he train so hard? Because he understands the game and he understands that if you're not at you're best anyone can be beaten. FFS, he's already been beaten twice, of course he understands that he can be beaten.
Completely trivial, but what did we make of this?
Nate.
I don't think it ever crossed his mind that Diaz would beat him. This result has clearly shocked him and definitely made him apprehensive about any more LW fights. If he won he would be talking about a Dos Anjos/Lawler fight. Now he is saying a title defence. His mindset has changed.
I'm not going to talk about his training. That jumped up shithead Ido pisses me off. And his training deserted him completely in this fight. No stamina, no takedown defence and no ground game.
He was boasting about doing 4 and half hour training session on Embedded. Clearly the intensity wasn't there.
He said something to the effect "I've just done a four and half hour training session and it felt like nothing"
Except he wasn't carrying an extra 25lbs and he didn't bulk into the LW division. He couldn't anyway because it would make his next cut down to 145 that much harder.
He fought at 168. Can't be more then a few pounds more then the weight that he comes in at to fight FWs at. He doesn't have enough punching power at LW and he showed a lack of gas tank again despite not doing a weight cut. Quite simply, he's not ready for a 155 title shot.
Looking at whole landscape now, its a joke that he was even allowed to talk about moving up without fighting Frankie, rematching Aldo and fighting a full camp Mendez.
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Making the weight for July can be done. 25 pounds in three and a half months.
So UFC 200 we're probably looking at McGregor defending featherweight and Diaz either fighting for the lightweight belt or welterweight belt. Suits me.
Its really bad for him long term. Going up 25 pounds then down 25 pounds in 6 months is a lot of stress on the body.
I think McGregor was right in everything he said after the fight. He did win the first round and was probably winning the second until he got rocked. The problem was that he wasn't used to fighting someone with that reach who could take his shots and he ran out of energy before Nate did. Seems like he underestimated the difference stepping up in weight would have on his strengths. As he said himself, he'd need to adjust the way he fights if he wants to do well at that weight.
By "that weight" we're really talking about 155. Calling that a 170 fight is misleading as really it was two lightweights who didn't cut as much as they usually would.
On the plus side, that probably means it won't be that much more difficult to return to 145. He weighed in for this fight at less than his supposed walk around weight after all.
By "that weight" we're really talking about 155. Calling that a 170 fight is misleading as really it was two lightweights who didn't cut as much as they usually would.
On the plus side, that probably means it won't be that much more difficult to return to 145. He weighed in for this fight at less than his supposed walk around weight after all.
Man put your Rousey hate to one side for once.
Money talks and Dana wants to get paid? Whatever fight he makes with Rousey will draw big. Rousey drew huge with feck all support when she took on Bethe, apparently bigger numbers than McGregor who people claim is the biggest draw in MMA. Whether it was Rousey/Tate 3 or Rousey/Holm 2, they'd both draw and make money. Rousey/Holm drew big, Dana was in dreamland at the thought of Rousey/Holm 2 and it's still on to happen down the line. Dana is on record as saying he wanted Rousey/Holm 2, so much so that he advised Holm not to take the Tate fight. She took it though and it's led to this happening. It's clear he wants Rousey on the 200 card and he made it clear before last nights result that no matter what, Rousey was getting a title shot as her first fight back (and to be perfectly frank, rightfully so considering she destroyed every single fighter prior to Holm. It's no different to Weidman, Silva or numerous others getting immediate rematches on their return).
Perhaps Rousey/Tate 3 gives them a chain.... Rousey wins - Rousey/Holm 2, Holm wins - Holm/Tate 2...
I don't mind mcgregor fans, they are the ones that acknowledge all the things you say. McNut-huggers are the idiots who started following mma after the Poirier fight and claim Connor to be P4P best fighter on the planet and scream "precision beats power" at press conferences. They are mainly on Twitter Facebook and YouTube, I wasnt directing anything at you.
Of course nate was ready to fight, he wasn't injured and never claimed to be but he did say that he did no sparring and could get "merked" and the "kill or be killed" line. Unlike Mendes, who said it post fight, Diaz admitted this from the start.
Connor on the other hand trained for 155 and fight at 170, meaning the main difference was that he didn't have to weight cut. He even said he felt great and did 4 hours sparring easily. Remember nate is also a 155 fighter
How are you seeing Connors situation to be disadvantageous and not Nates?
Jesus, didn't realise some people had that much hatred for McGregor.
Bit stupid to be writing him off. Bigger and better fighters/boxers have had losses and still came back.
Bit stupid to be writing him off. Bigger and better fighters/boxers have had losses and still came back.
You're right, McGregor didn't even mention this stuff after the fight. He got beaten because he wasn't good enough on the night, simple as.
Exactly. I don't know why people are making excuses. The better fighter on the night won. That's it.
Money talks but that doesn't make it right for the sport.
How does an immediate title shot make sense when she lost the title by being thoroughly outclassed and KO'd in her last title fight. At best Rousey should expect a rematch with Holm.
Silva got a rematch because he dominated a competitive division for seven years, took fights at 205 and dominated, and was caught with a punch in the Weidman fight. On top of that, there was no clear number 1 contender at the time or fighters were already lined up to take other fights. Ronda smashing cans in the womens BW is not on the same level as Silva's achievements.
If the UFC want to bring some legitimacy to the division and build stars then they need to keep Rousey the hell away from Tate because she already has two wins over her.
The next round of fights should be something like Rousey - Nunes and a Tate - Holm rematch and then have the winners face off. Throwing Tate to Rousey straight off following her loss would be fecking embarrassing and an opportunity wasted.
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)He never went up 25 lbs so he doesn't need to come down 25lbs. He fought at a (no weight cut) weight of 168.
He can still make 145 as easily as he has done in the past.
He cut down for the Aldo fight, three months later fights at 168 and another 3 months has to cut back down to 145. Its bad for him to do that.
In hindsight (for McGregor) Diaz was a terrible choice for him. I think his stopping power can translate to LW or maybe even WW eventually. But to have your first welterweight fight against a taller guy who has not only never been knocked out but rarely even been wobbled (that i can remember) was a bit naive when your whole game is based around Knocking people out.
Fair play to him though for taking the fight at short notice and having a good scrap, he was winning until he got caught i thought. Anyone can get caught with a good shot and no one retires undefeated in the UFC. I think he'll move back up in a year or two and win the LW title.
He just tried to do everything a bit too soon maybe, he's still young and has a few years ahead of him.
Fair play to him though for taking the fight at short notice and having a good scrap, he was winning until he got caught i thought. Anyone can get caught with a good shot and no one retires undefeated in the UFC. I think he'll move back up in a year or two and win the LW title.
He just tried to do everything a bit too soon maybe, he's still young and has a few years ahead of him.
You could also say he was fighting someone who rarely finishes his opponents though. In fact that's exactly what McGregor did say in the build up to the fight. If you're moving to a higher weight then fighting someone you think will be unable to knock you out isn't the worst idea. It just didn't work out that way.
Man, what a night! Had both main events spoiled up front and spent the whole day working and wondering what went on. Connor was pretty good in round one, but got tagged easily and often in round two. Massive respect for Tate too, great fight and a nice finish!
Nate Diaz did say the game plan for the first 2/3 rounds was to contain Conors attacks, to hold back and let him throw his best at him and ride any wave of attacks, trying to keep any serious shots to a minimum until Mcgregor tired. Then in the 3rd round onwards take advantage of a tired Conor. Just so happens Mcgregor tired extremely quickly and Nate pounced earlier. He did say that Mcgregor got a few more shots on him then he would've liked but that was more to do with not having a training camp and so not going in as sharp as he could be. Conor winning the first couple rounds was a part of Nates plan.
thenotoriousmmaI stormed in and put it all on the line. I took a shot and missed.
I will never apologize for taking a shot.
Shit happens.
I'll take this loss like a man. I will not shy away from it. I will not change who I am. If another champion goes up 2 weights let me know.
If your tired of me talking money, take a nap.
I'll still be here when you wake up with the highest PPV and the gate. Still talking multi 7's.
Thank you to the true support and feck the hate that came out of the woodwork. I love it all. Its still steak for breakfast.
I've been here many times in my life in some form or another. I'll eat it all and come back stronger.
Aldo you are a pussy. Dos anjos you are a pussy.
When the history books are written, I showed up. You showed up on Twitter.
To the fans! Never ever shy away from challenges. Never run from adversity. Face yourself head on.
Nate I will see you again.
I will never apologize for taking a shot.
Shit happens.
I'll take this loss like a man. I will not shy away from it. I will not change who I am. If another champion goes up 2 weights let me know.
If your tired of me talking money, take a nap.
I'll still be here when you wake up with the highest PPV and the gate. Still talking multi 7's.
Thank you to the true support and feck the hate that came out of the woodwork. I love it all. Its still steak for breakfast.
I've been here many times in my life in some form or another. I'll eat it all and come back stronger.
Aldo you are a pussy. Dos anjos you are a pussy.
When the history books are written, I showed up. You showed up on Twitter.
To the fans! Never ever shy away from challenges. Never run from adversity. Face yourself head on.
Nate I will see you again.
Well yeah thats a fair point, at the same time McGregor wouldn't have been used to being punched by a guy that size/weight even though Diaz doesn't have many knockouts. I think he either underestimated Diaz's power or overestimated his own chin.
But still as soon as it was announced i wasn't confident he would win for the simple reason i didn't think he would have been able to knock him out. Some of the shots he caught Diaz with in the first would have wobbled most featherweights and a lot of light weights. Diaz is tough as feck, the longer the fight went on i thought Diaz would eventually get him on the ground and finish him.
It was just a bad match up for him all round. People will disagree but he would have had a better chance against RDA in my opinion , more chance of knocking him out anyway.
RDA would've took him down and pinned him on the ground as he beat the shit out of him. He pinned Nate Diaz down with ease in their fight. He also fecked his leg with leg kicks. RDA is like Aldo but bigger and tougher. So much less likely to be caught the same way Mcgregor caught Aldo on the chin.
Afraid? Ridiculous comment. He is the FW champion. Are you suggesting he simply gives up his belt and fights at a higher weight class? He won't get what he wants now and that was a second title. He is afraid of nobody. Too confident.
Money talks but that doesn't make it right for the sport.
How does an immediate title shot make sense when she lost the title by being thoroughly outclassed and KO'd in her last title fight. At best Rousey should expect a rematch with Holm.
Silva got a rematch because he dominated a competitive division for seven years, took fights at 205 and dominated, and was caught with a punch in the Weidman fight. On top of that, there was no clear number 1 contender at the time or fighters were already lined up to take other fights. Ronda smashing cans in the womens BW is not on the same level as Silva's achievements.
If the UFC want to bring some legitimacy to the division and build stars then they need to keep Rousey the hell away from Tate because she already has two wins over her.
The next round of fights should be something like Rousey - Nunes and a Tate - Holm rematch and then have the winners face off. Throwing Tate to Rousey straight off following her loss would be fecking embarrassing and an opportunity wasted.
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I'm not the one saying money talks, that was the original statement. Money talks for Dana apparently and that's why he won't do Rousey/Holm, yet Rousey/Holm 1 was the best drawing female fight they've done to date. There's no sense at all in what PS originally said.
Really not getting into a debate about how good the women's division is because I've been there and done that and it's a merry go round. My view is that Ronda is one of the most dominant fighters MMA has seen, she was/is that good. If you feel she's not and she's been beating 'cans' then that's your opinion. For me it's a good division, without Ronda it's a ridiculously open and competitive division. Mark my words if Ronda hadn't been around I would wager on it that people calling those women 'cans' wouldn't be saying they were that.
You'd really rather they go down a route of Rousey/Nunes? Just so Rousey can completely run through Nunes and then you can call her a 'can' too?
Rousey is similar to what we see now with Conor. A lot of people (not putting you into this group) tend to downplay what she's done simply because they don't like her.
I'm saying if he was confident of his ability to win the LW title, he would vacate to go for it. At the moment, him sitting in a weight class he is too big for suggests he is dodging fighting the guys in LW, which suggests a certain level of fear involved.
The way he went down against Nate Diaz suggests he isn't the fearless fighter everybody likes to think he is. Giving up for a submission so you aren't KO'd is a bit of a pussy's move.
I don't like Aldo getting all big mouthed about it though. He has a bit of a short memory there, considering Conor knocked him out in 13 seconds when they fought.
I think he definitely underestimated Nate's ability to eat his punches and that showed in his approach. He was basically looking for a knockout throughout the fight, especially in the second round. Once that didn't work and he started getting hit himself he panicked. A different approach and better preparation would would probably have seen McGregor beat Diaz I think.
His stamina was shit too. Absolutely awful how he started panting in the first round. You could see it in the slow, weak kick he threw to Nates body which Nate caught and took him down with towards the end of the first round. He also didn't follow the game plan he said he would, which was target Nates body.
Exactly. Looking at how badly he wilted you'd swear McGregor was the one who had taken the fight at short notice. At least that's something he can improve the next time he fights above 145 though.
I don't know how he improves it though? More intense, fight orientated training? Better conditioning coaches? Better sparring partners? He won't change any of those.
His style. You can't walk down guys that weigh 170 lbs and expect to eat their shots like he does a 145. He should of countered Nate instead of going tit for tat. His power doesn't translate over to WW.
He needs to be more cautious. Bringing in world class grappling talent wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Heres what he said
And its spot on. Putting Holm against Rousey now would cost the UFC a lot of money if Rousey were to lose (which is more then likely), hence why they would rather give her Tate so she can win the belt back with relative ease and then they get a second massive pay day with Rousey/Holm. Its a bit shortsighted but its driven by money.
No my point is putting Rousey straight into fight with Tate is bad for the sport and the future of the division. Imagine the most likely outcomes
Rousey/Tate - Rousey tears through Tate winning the belt and we are back to calling everyone in the division cans.
Rousey/Holm - Holm breaks Rousey jaw again. Rousey cries on Ellen and retires to go have babies with Browne. UFC lose their cash cow and we lose one of the top fighters in the division.
Holm has as good a claim to a title shot as Rousey (who lost her last fight). Putting Holm/Tate together builds both of their reputations and you add depth to the division. Like you said, Rousey is a draw in any fight, so why not make her fight Amanda Nunes. As the division stands, some careful match making could create four stars if Nunes were to perform against Rousey.
Rousey getting a title shot after a loss only make sense where $ are concerned.
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Its not just style, he was doing well in that first round, on the front foot and throwing decent shots. Then he tired out about halfway through it and all of his shots became slower and more predictable. He ended up throwing the same basic punches over and over again rather then variety. In that second round he was so gassed he couldn't even duck and weave, which lead to Diaz picking him off and eventually rocking him. He shouldn't be getting tired so quickly into a fight. He wasn't going all out attack and the pace of the fight was fairly slow. Its strange to see really.
Also, he didn't go for the body enough. He should've used his kicks to target Nates body and soften him up a bit. Slow him down and make him easier to pick off in the later rounds. Instead he went for the head, got caught against somebody with a reach advantage and great swaying abilities and by the time he thee a body kick he was too tired to exert any force behind it.
Surely he can improve his stamina without changing his general approach too much? Even within his current set up I'd have expected better than that, it was really pretty bad.
Beyond that though, he'd probably need to alter the way he fights a bit. If he can't finish people as easily at 155 then he'll have to be ready for the fight to go on longer than his 145 bouts have. If he had paced himself better, worked Nate's body more, racked up a few rounds on points and generally been more realistic he would probably have won that fight. He'll have to accept that slightly more conservative approach will be necessary in fights where trying to finish his opponent in the first couple of rounds isn't going to work.