The MMA thread

Pogue Mahone said:
Again, I'm no expert (when I last watched, WWE was called WWF) but the one thing they all have in common is that they aren't competitive sports. Which means they're basically not sports at all.

That is an obvious and simple differentiator from combat sports like MMA and boxing. Hence there's a world of difference between staged animosity between two contestants in a competitive sport and the overblown drivel that surrounds WWE and the like, where the actual results are as fictional as whatever imaginary beef exists outside the ring.
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Are you deliberately missing the point or what? Certainly seems so.

I'll spell it out for you. Boxing and MMA both use professional wrestling tactics to making stars, as well as to selling shows. They create a dynamic whereby people want to see person A, the heel, let's use Jon Jones as an example here, get his comeuppance. Just look back at the last page, it's been successful. It's got people talking. It's working.

I'm not saying Jones and Cormier is definitely a work, but it's an example. Let's say both of them get what, a 20 grand fine? 50 grand? How much more do you think they'll make as a result of it? THAT is a pro wrestling technique, getting whatever publicity you can to sell tickets. A lot in the way that the promotions work is based on how pro wrestling promotions work, this is a fact.

You seem to be incapable of grasping the concept that how MMA and boxing go about their business is based on a pro wrestling model. I even gave you the example of Mohammad Ali basing his entire public persona on a wrestler.
 
It is crazy to call it a set up. Who turns up to DC and says oh btw we want you to let JJ throw punches at you, then he endsup on top throwing a few more. Add in the fact that this fighr will sell well no matter what, why risk injuries now. DC has two dodgy knees and JJ had a cut above his eye. Also the fight wont take place for nearly two months, if you set it up you would let it happen closer to the fight and build momentum.

One last thing, the UFC don't even try and build stars any more, not after what happened with Tito Ortiz. No one is bigger than the company and they spend way more on hyping the UFC rather than the fighters. Brock was already a star because of wrestling, Chael talked his way there, McGregor isn't a star yet but has the personality for it, Anderson wasn't one for years, the fights with Chael and his general eliteness etc got him there. GSP had Canada and a dominant winning streak. I don't think the UFC particularly hypes anyone that much tbh.
 
phelans shorts said:
Are you deliberately missing the point or what? Certainly seems so.

I'll spell it out for you. Boxing and MMA both use professional wrestling tactics to making stars, as well as to selling shows. They create a dynamic whereby people want to see person A, the heel, let's use Jon Jones as an example here, get his comeuppance. Just look back at the last page, it's been successful. It's got people talking. It's working.

I'm not saying Jones and Cormier is definitely a work, but it's an example. Let's say both of them get what, a 20 grand fine? 50 grand? How much more do you think they'll make as a result of it? THAT is a pro wrestling technique, getting whatever publicity you can to sell tickets. A lot in the way that the promotions work is based on how pro wrestling promotions work, this is a fact.

You seem to be incapable of grasping the concept that how MMA and boxing go about their business is based on a pro wrestling model. I even gave you the example of Mohammad Ali basing his entire public persona on a wrestler.
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I grasped your point just fine. Your original point was that the UFC "is basically run as a wrestling promotion but with legit fights".

Like I said, you can argue the toss about exactly who invented the idea of using apparent dislike between combatants to sell seats for a fight. You're convinced that this began with pro wrestling, I would be amazed if that particular tactic isn't as old as the fight game itself.

The point I've been making is that you can't consider any competitive combat sport as "a wrestling promotion" because fighters will end up competing based on merit alone. The champions and contenders aren't hand-picked because of their abilities to sell tickets. They rise to the top based on their ability to compete. Once the fights are set up all that really matters is who will prevail on the day, all the rest is just a silly sideshow. That's radically different to wresting, where the whole "sport" consists of that silly sideshow and fights are picked entirely by market research and which fighters currently have the most 10 year old boys buying duvet covers with their faces on them.
 
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Oh and why didn't McGregor try and split it up? Prob several reasons, like he has a fight soon and can't risk injury or that there were already 10 people trying to split it up. McGregor was standing with some Irish fans taking pictures and signing shit, none of them were even paying much attention to it which was why there were some jokes on twitter and stuff saying "a mass brawl in Ireland is called a Tuesday" etc
 
PhilipB said:
Oh and why didn't McGregor try and split it up? Prob several reasons, like he has a fight soon and can't risk injury or that there were already 10 people trying to split it up. McGregor was standing with some Irish fans taking pictures and signing shit, none of them were even paying much attention to it which was why there were some jokes on twitter and stuff saying "a mass brawl in Ireland is called a Tuesday" etc
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Indeed. He might be a bit mad but he's not f*cking stupid.

Besides, if they're going down the pro wrestling pantomime why wouldn't these hypothetical script-writers have had their golden boy in the middle of that scuffle? Too good an opportunity to miss, surely?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Indeed. He might be a bit mad but he's not f*cking stupid.

Besides, if they're going down the pro wrestling pantomime why wouldn't these hypothetical script-writers have had their golden boy in the middle of that scuffle? Too good an opportunity to miss, surely?
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If there are script writers then why are the UFC promos so fecking terrible?

*Cue heavy metal music, flashing lights, Rogan shouting he' hurt him, Goldberg " JUST LIKE THAT"

Rinse, repeat every damn time
 
Deleted my post before. Did not realise it was very similar to what Phelan Shorts had already posted.
 
JP77 said:
War Machine is a fecking scumbag, enough said.

Pictures of Christy Mack, not nice viewing, sickening.

0811-christy-mack-injuries-twitter-7.jpg
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What an utter scumbag. He's in a world of shit now though:

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/08/dog-th...-track-down-war-machine-after-alleged-assault

Gutted about Cormier vs Jones being delayed, although I guess it gives Cormier more time to get his knee healed and get in a full camp.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Deleted my post before. Did not realise it was very similar to what Phelan Shorts had already posted.
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That was actually a really interesting post mate. Undelete it if you can! Japan in the early days of MMA had a similarly strange blurring between pro-wrestling and competitive MMA-type events.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
That was actually a really interesting post mate. Undelete it if you can! Japan in the early days of MMA had a similarly strange blurring between pro-wrestling and competitive MMA-type events.
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I will try and repost it tomorrow. Once a post is deleted it is lost for good. I was an old school Boxing fan who got into pro-wrestling after realising the influence it had on Ali's career and fight promotion after reading up and watching his career just before the business was exposed/WWF got really big and got an interest in the old history behind it.

I know some of the history of Japan pro wrestling and MMA from reading up on Ken Shamrock's early career and listening to Chael Sonnen trash anyone who ever fought in Japan MMA comps. Well at least those early 90's promotions anyway.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
I will try and repost it tomorrow. Once a post is deleted it is lost for good. I was an old school Boxing fan who got into pro-wrestling after realising the influence it had on Ali's career and fight promotion after reading up and watching his career just before the business was exposed/WWF got really big and got an interest in the old history behind it.

I know some of the history of Japan pro wrestling and MMA from reading up on Ken Shamrock's early career and listening to Chael Sonnen trash anyone who ever fought in Japan MMA comps. Well at least those early 90's promotions anyway.
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Cheers mate. :lol: at the bolded part. I'll post this article by James Thompson (who is vastly more intelligent than I'd ever have guessed from hearing him interviewed after fights) as it has some interesting observations about Japanese MMA, Its striking that many of the early Japanese MMA fighters were also pro-wrestlers.

http://colossalconcerns.com/2012/04/22/fixes-in-mma/
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
I will try and repost it tomorrow. Once a post is deleted it is lost for good. I was an old school Boxing fan who got into pro-wrestling after realising the influence it had on Ali's career and fight promotion after reading up and watching his career just before the business was exposed/WWF got really big and got an interest in the old history behind it.

I know some of the history of Japan pro wrestling and MMA from reading up on Ken Shamrock's early career and listening to Chael Sonnen trash anyone who ever fought in Japan MMA comps. Well at least those early 90's promotions anyway.
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Just to let you know that I also read it (it was addressed to me) and it was indeed a good read.

I actually got a similarly educational post from @Gambit when I started a thread slagging off WWE a year or two back. I'll admit to not knowing (or having any interest) in the history of pro wrestling but it does seem as though it's interwoven with proper combat sports, so it's a little dismissive to deride the entire history of the "sport" as homoerotic pantomime. There's obviously a lot more to it than that. That is what it's become in the present day, though. Which is why I get irritated when anyone tries to align it with a genuinely competitive martial art like MMA. That said, I probably need to focus more on the sport I enjoy rather than slagging off entertainment other people enjoy. I'll make an effort to do that.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just to let you know that I also read it (it was addressed to me) and it was indeed a good read.

I actually got a similarly educational post from @Gambit when I started a thread slagging off WWE a year or two back. I'll admit to not knowing (or having any interest) in the history of pro wrestling but it does seem as though it's interwoven with proper combat sports, so it's a little dismissive to deride the entire history of the "sport" as homoerotic pantomime. There's obviously a lot more to it than that. That is what it's become in the present day, though. Which is why I get irritated when anyone tries to align it with a genuinely competitive martial art like MMA. That said, I probably need to focus more on the sport I enjoy rather than slagging off entertainment other people enjoy. I'll make an effort to do that.
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Bloody hell you have a better memory than me. I can't remember what I posted last night never mind a couple of years ago.
 
Kaush949 said:
Just a theory but has anyone noticed that injuries have shot up ever since NSAC started enforcing random testing and stricter PED rules?
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I don't think they have? 2012 was terrible for injuries and there were a lot in 2013 too.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/1/2...ist-of-ufc-injuries-and-card-changes-for-2012

http://www.mmamania.com/2014/1/1/5249862/mma-ufc-injuries-list-all-injured-ufc-fighters-2013


First the good news: Unlike 2012, the year that was (2013) didn't see an Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) card "murdered" because of injuries.

Here's the bad news, though: The mixed martial arts' (MMA) "injury bug," as we often euphemistically refer to it, isn't going away.

In 2012, there were 104 injuries to fighters on the UFC roster that ended up causing the promotion to either scramble for a replacement or scrap a planned match altogether. In 2013 there were 101 -- a statistically insignificant five less injuries.
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Obviously he's a turd but those 4chan people are such immature assholes. What would happen to whichever gay bloke/pizza/ice cream delivery guy rocked up to the house of a volatile MMA fighter, so worked up he's beating himself up?

Plus, anyone using that dead father stuff to point score in an online argument - in any circumstances - is vermin.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Obviously he's a turd but those 4chan "people" are such immature assholes. What would happen to whichever gay bloke/pizza/ice cream delivery guy rocked up to the house of a volatile MMA fighter, so worked up he's beating himself up?

Plus, anyone using that dead father stuff to point score in an online argument - in any circumstances - is vermin.
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Fixed.
 
Actually the Warhammer stuff (which is horrific) reminds me of another reason why it'd be terrible to stage a "work". Considering it hasn't been a good few months PR wise for the UFC with the failed drug tests, the domestic abuse cases (Warhammer, Josh Grispi, Jeremy Stephens), it'd be a terrible idea to have two of their guys brawl it out in the middle of a fecking hotel lobby.

*I know Warhammer isn't in the UFC but so many headlines have said "Former UFC fighter".
 
PhilipB said:
Actually the Warhammer stuff (which is horrific) reminds me of another reason why it'd be terrible to stage a "work". Considering it hasn't been a good few months PR wise for the UFC with the failed drug tests, the domestic abuse cases (Warhammer, Josh Grispi, Jeremy Stephens), it'd be a terrible idea to have two of their guys brawl it out in the middle of a fecking hotel lobby.

*I know Warhammer isn't in the UFC but so many headlines have said "Former UFC fighter".
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Joe Rogan was talking about it (the JJ/DC brawl) and saying how pissed off Dana would be, because of the damage it would do to the reputation of the UFC.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
:lol: That's his wife. You've never seen Dog the Bounty Hunter??!
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No! I don't own a tv though so that probably has something to do with it. I can't believe they are real people! If you stuck a beard on her then he'd practically be fecking himself.
Pogue Mahone said:
Joe Rogan was talking about it (the JJ/DC brawl) and saying how pissed off Dana would be, because of the damage it would do to the reputation of the UFC.
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Yea that sounds about right. Considering the work they have put in and the resistance they've met trying to get it legalised in New York, and how the stick to beat them with has always been that human cockfighting, uncivilised shit etc I think this isn't something they would actively encouraged (never mind actually set up), even if it does increase PPV sales.

Anyway, I think if Dana was there then no way would he have let JJ push him off the stage. And DC pushed a different fighter at weigh ins (Patrick Cummins) and probably thought he could get away with it again. No Dana, DC thought he could push JJ and get away with it, JJ not giving a feck...perfect storm really.
 
How do you solve a problem like UFC 178???

Well you go and book a family trip to UFC 182 thats how :) :) :)
 
Anyone even remotely bothered about tonight's card? Might watch it in the morning just for the last two fights.
 
PhilipB said:
Bader vs St Preux
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Meh, if that's the main event I can only imagine what the rest of the card looks like. Think I'll give this one a miss.

I'm only looking forward to Anderson vs Diaz and DC vs Jones tbh. Not many other fights interest me lately.
 
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