The MMA thread

T00lsh3d said:
Really? Ok, who beats him?
Click to expand...

He has fought one top level guy in his career so probably a good idea to see him against the rest of the top guys before calling him unstoppable?

This also boils down to some overrating of Oliveira if we're being honest too. An absolute warrior but he wasn't some unstoppable guy that couldn't be beaten. He's been beaten in the past and came close to losing against all of Gaethje, Chandler and Poirier. He wasn't unbeatable, Islam just managed to take advantage of Oliveira and finish the fight. Tbh I think all three of the guys Oliveira beat could beat him on a different day. Chandler had him badly hurt and was a second or two away from winning the fight. While Oliveira is fantastic to watch and very talented, he's always taken loads of damage and was always there to be beaten.

I'm not saying Gaethje, Chandler or Poirier beat Islam, I'm saying I need to see him fight these three before crowning him an unbeatable force. I think Chandler matches up very well with him tbh.
 
DannyCAFC said:
I love Volk but I don't think so. Size is going to play a factor and if/when Islam gets him down I don't think he has the ground game to compete.



I'm assuming this was the fight in the crowd the broadcast were referencing during Beneil-Gamrot? Of course it was Khamzat involved...

Getting a bit tiring now, hopefully he learns to grow up a bit.
Click to expand...
It wasn’t Khamzats fault?
 
DannyCAFC said:
I love Volk but I don't think so. Size is going to play a factor and if/when Islam gets him down I don't think he has the ground game to compete.



I'm assuming this was the fight in the crowd the broadcast were referencing during Beneil-Gamrot? Of course it was Khamzat involved...

Getting a bit tiring now, hopefully he learns to grow up a bit.
Click to expand...
Volk used to play his original sport at a considerably heavier weight than he fights in the UFC and kept his strength, mobility and explosiveness - he is no stranger to being heavy and the size difference won’t be what people seem to think. His stand up and mobility as well as his understanding of striking is in another stratosphere and getting hands on him to wrestle will be nightmare - for me, it will be a consummate victory as I don’t see a single way for Islam to use his strengths. I don’t believe there will be an if/when moment in the fight.

Volkonovski is a terrible opponent for him, really bad.
 
Last edited:
Dirty Schwein said:
Dunno who's fault it was but Khamzat always seems to be getting into these situations.
Click to expand...
I understand that but they’re shaking hands and Khabibs brother then jerks at him trying to punk him. Khamzat does lose his temper but rightly so imo
 
Fortitude said:
KILL EVERYBADY❗
Click to expand...
:lol:

cyberman said:
I understand that but they’re shaking hands and Khabibs brother then jerks at him trying to punk him. Khamzat does lose his temper but rightly so imo
Click to expand...
Yeah possibly. I dunno, I just don't like his vibe. Maybe he's a decent guy, feck knows... But he seems thick as shit.
 
JP77 said:
He has fought one top level guy in his career so probably a good idea to see him against the rest of the top guys before calling him unstoppable?

This also boils down to some overrating of Oliveira if we're being honest too. An absolute warrior but he wasn't some unstoppable guy that couldn't be beaten. He's been beaten in the past and came close to losing against all of Gaethje, Chandler and Poirier. He wasn't unbeatable, Islam just managed to take advantage of Oliveira and finish the fight. Tbh I think all three of the guys Oliveira beat could beat him on a different day. Chandler had him badly hurt and was a second or two away from winning the fight. While Oliveira is fantastic to watch and very talented, he's always taken loads of damage and was always there to be beaten.

I'm not saying Gaethje, Chandler or Poirier beat Islam, I'm saying I need to see him fight these three before crowning him an unbeatable force. I think Chandler matches up very well with him tbh.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Islam is going to have to fight more quality opponents and defeat them as Charles did. I would like to see a him go against a quality striker after Dariush (i think Islam wins that).
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Dunno who's fault it was but Khamzat always seems to be getting into these situations.
Click to expand...

cyberman said:
I understand that but they’re shaking hands and Khabibs brother then jerks at him trying to punk him. Khamzat does lose his temper but rightly so imo
Click to expand...

It allegedly happened because Abu Bakr made an IG post asking Khamzat to chill out with his shit talking about wanting to smesh Khabib and his crew, which Chimaev apparently didn’t like.

There was also a apparently a dust up in the underground car park as everyone was leaving.

I think part of this has to do with Khamzat being in Kadyrov’s favor at the moment, which had made him believe he can say whatever he wants to team Khabib, with little to no repercussions.
 
Raoul said:
It allegedly happened because Abu Bakr made an IG post asking Khamzat to chill out with his shit talking about wanting to smesh Khabib and his crew, which Chimaev apparently didn’t like.

There was also a apparently a dust up in the underground car park as everyone was leaving.

I think part of this has to do with Khamzat being in Kadyrov’s favor at the moment, which had made him believe he can say whatever he wants to team Khabib, with little to no repercussions.
Click to expand...
Can't believe I'll be rooting for Colby soon ffs :lol:
 
Let’s just make peace with it…..Suga got biased judging because he’s being pushed
 
Fortitude said:
Volk used to play his original sport at a considerably heavier weight than he fights in the UFC and kept his strength, mobility and explosiveness - he is no stranger to being heavy and the size difference won’t be what people seem to think. His stand up and mobility as well as his understanding of striking is in another stratosphere and getting hands on him to wrestle will be nightmare - for me, it will be a consummate victory as I don’t see a single way for Islam to use his strengths. I don’t believe there will be an if/when moment in the fight.

Volkonovski is a terrible opponent for him, really bad.
Click to expand...
Do you think Volk will open as a favourite? No odds out yet AFAIK.
 
JP77 said:
He has fought one top level guy in his career so probably a good idea to see him against the rest of the top guys before calling him unstoppable?

This also boils down to some overrating of Oliveira if we're being honest too. An absolute warrior but he wasn't some unstoppable guy that couldn't be beaten. He's been beaten in the past and came close to losing against all of Gaethje, Chandler and Poirier. He wasn't unbeatable, Islam just managed to take advantage of Oliveira and finish the fight. Tbh I think all three of the guys Oliveira beat could beat him on a different day. Chandler had him badly hurt and was a second or two away from winning the fight. While Oliveira is fantastic to watch and very talented, he's always taken loads of damage and was always there to be beaten.

I'm not saying Gaethje, Chandler or Poirier beat Islam, I'm saying I need to see him fight these three before crowning him an unbeatable force. I think Chandler matches up very well with him tbh.
Click to expand...

They'll have to earn the right to fight him. These rank squatters facing each other after getting beaten by Oliveira doesnt make them contenders again.

If they can someone like Dariush, or Charles in rematches after their losses to him, they they'll get a chance to test themselves against the best. In the meantime, Islam will be fighting the number 1 p4p fighter on the planet, with Dariush seemingly being next in line.

Watching Islam feast on the same guys that Khabib and Charles did isn't much fun.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
They'll have to earn the right to fight him. These rank squatters facing each other after getting beaten by Oliveira doesnt make them contenders again.

If they can someone like Dariush, or Charles in rematches after their losses to him, they they'll get a chance to test themselves against the best. In the meantime, Islam will be fighting the number 1 p4p fighter on the planet, with Dariush seemingly being next in line.

Watching Islam feast on the same guys that Khabib and Charles did isn't much fun.
Click to expand...

So who's he fighting if he's not fighting any of those three who are currently ranked 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the division? What are you actually going on about?

He's beaten one person in the top 10. He hasn't fought a single other guy in the current top 13 ffs. Who feasted on Chandler? He pretty much had Oliveira out in their fight and is one of the top guys in the division. Of course they have to 'earn' the right to fight for the belt (although this is the UFC, earning title fights sometimes goes out of the window), it would be a massive surprise to not see one of them fighting him at some point. He has Volk next and after that it's a huge toss up. Dariush has beaten an old and over the hill Tony Ferguson ffs as his most notable win, he's got much more to prove than any of the three guys I've named.

The three I've mentioned alongside Oliveira were the clear cut top four in the division prior to last night. They're all on a pretty even level playing field. Disregarding any of them is plain silly.
 
JP77 said:
So who's he fighting if he's not fighting any of those three who are currently ranked 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the division? What are you actually going on about?

He's beaten one person in the top 10. He hasn't fought a single other guy in the current top 13 ffs. Who feasted on Chandler? He pretty much had Oliveira out in their fight and is one of the top guys in the division. Of course they have to 'earn' the right to fight for the belt (although this is the UFC, earning title fights sometimes goes out of the window), it would be a massive surprise to not see one of them fighting him at some point. He has Volk next and after that it's a huge toss up. Dariush has beaten an old and over the hill Tony Ferguson ffs as his most notable win, he's got much more to prove than any of the three guys I've named.

The three I've mentioned alongside Oliveira were the clear cut top four in the division prior to last night. They're all on a pretty even level playing field. Disregarding any of them is plain silly.
Click to expand...

It sounds like a whole bunch of coulda-shoulda. Charles knocked out or submitted each of those 3 within 2 rounds. Khabib humiliated Justin and Dustin. The current rankings don't reflect who's the best as Islam proved.

You're talking about Dariush beating an old washed up Ferguson but Chandler's best win was against an even more washed up Ferguson. the other? hooker whom Islam made look like an ameteur.

None of the three are on an "even playing field" as Charles or Islam. And it's pretty laughable to suggest that they are. They'd all lose to Fizeiv or Dariush.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
It sounds like a whole bunch of coulda-shoulda. Charles knocked out or submitted each of those 3 within 2 rounds. Khabib humiliated Justin and Dustin. The current rankings don't reflect who's the best as Islam proved.

You're talking about Dariush beating an old washed up Ferguson but Chandler's best win was against an even more washed up Ferguson. the other? hooker whom Islam made look like an ameteur.

None of the three are on an "even playing field" as Charles or Islam. And it's pretty laughable to suggest that they are. They'd all lose to Fizeiv or Dariush.
Click to expand...

All three of those badly hurt Oliveira, in fact the referee could have stopped the fight when Chandler was teeing off on him. Of course he won them all, but it also showed that they're all up there with him. If he had dominated them it would be different, he didn't, he got hurt in all three and badly in fact.

You basically argued against yourself. Khabib did dominate both Justin and Dustin, exactly. He fought them and beat them (and what does that have to do with Islam anyway?). Where have I said Islam won't beat any of the three I've mentioned? I haven't. I'm saying he needs to fight the top guys in the division which he definitely hasn't done yet, so you're also playing the 'coulda shoulda could do' game when he hasn't beaten any of them. Pointless talking about it anymore as it's clear you're disrespecting and underrating all three of the guys I've mentioned while overrating other fights, especially Dariush who really hasn't done that much to make a claim that he would beat all three of Justin, Dustin and Chandler.
 
JP77 said:
All three of those badly hurt Oliveira, in fact the referee could have stopped the fight when Chandler was teeing off on him. Of course he won them all, but it also showed that they're all up there with him. If he had dominated them it would be different, he didn't, he got hurt in all three and badly in fact.

You basically argued against yourself. Khabib did dominate both Justin and Dustin, exactly. He fought them and beat them (and what does that have to do with Islam anyway?). Where have I said Islam won't beat any of the three I've mentioned? I haven't. I'm saying he needs to fight the top guys in the division which he definitely hasn't done yet, so you're also playing the 'coulda shoulda could do' game when he hasn't beaten any of them. Pointless talking about it anymore as it's clear you're disrespecting and underrating all three of the guys I've mentioned.
Click to expand...

All three were knocked out or submitted within 2 rounds. That doesn't indicate that they're "up there with him". There are no moral victories in MMA.

You talk about me underrating the three you mentioned and I'd counter by saying you're overrating them. None of them are in Oliveira's class and Islam just dispatched Charles with ease.

You're repeating yourself, but the top guys in the division arent those three. They're Charles and Dariush. He's already faced the best guy in the division and took him out with ease. He'll likely face the 2nd best in the division after facing Volk.

You seem to be getting emotional. Saying that none of the three is on Islam's level isn't 'disrespecting them'. It's a view that a lot of MMA fans take as a given.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
All three were knocked out or submitted within 2 rounds. That doesn't indicate that they're "up there with him". There are no moral victories in MMA.

You talk about me underrating the three you mentioned and I'd counter by saying you're overrating them. None of them are in Oliveira's class and Islam just dispatched Charles with ease.

You're repeating yourself, but the top guys in the division arent those three. They're Charles and Dariush. He's already faced the best guy in the division and took him out with ease. He'll likely face the 2nd best in the division after facing Volk.

You seem to be getting emotional. Saying that none of the three is on Islam's level isn't 'disrespecting them'. It's a view that a lot of MMA fans take as a given.
Click to expand...

It's a view you have, not most MMA fans. Gaethje, Poirier and Chandler are all rated by most MMA fans. Nobody is emotional, I'm just trying to be respectful to you when you're coming out with absolutely mental statements tbf. We'll revisit this in about a years time mate and see.
 
JP77 said:
It's a view you have, not most MMA fans. Gaethje, Poirier and Chandler are all rated by most MMA fans. Nobody is emotional, I'm just trying to be respectful to you when you're coming out with absolutely mental statements tbf. We'll revisit this in about a years time mate and see.
Click to expand...
You're free to browse any MMA forum and look at the consensus. MMA fans most certainly don't consider any of the three to be on Islam's level :lol:

Your harping about the supposed 'disrespect' certainly didn't seem respectful from your end. Neither is calling everything you disagree with a 'mental', statement (irony completely lost on you, apparently).

We can visit it a year from now and you're free to bump my posts if any of the fights materialize.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Let’s just make peace with it…..Suga got biased judging because he’s being pushed
Click to expand...

Or if the judges valued striking over takedowns. O'Malley did outstrike Yan, particularly on headshots, which are what get the most crowd reaction (which would affect the judges as well).
 
JP77 said:
It's a view you have, not most MMA fans. Gaethje, Poirier and Chandler are all rated by most MMA fans. Nobody is emotional, I'm just trying to be respectful to you when you're coming out with absolutely mental statements tbf. We'll revisit this in about a years time mate and see.
Click to expand...

Spot on. They are still the top contenders capable of winning fights in one strike, so Islam will have to fight them just as Khabib and Charles did. If he beats them all then it would be a good sign he's at the Khabib level of greatness. But he has to do it first.
 
Raoul said:
Or if the judges valued striking over takedowns. O'Malley did outstrike Yan, particularly on headshots, which are what get the most crowd reaction (which would affect the judges as well).
Click to expand...
I see the ‘number of significant strikes’ come up, but other than one punch in the second, and the knee that cut Yan in the third, I don’t remember anything decent getting through from O’Malley. The fight I remember (and I haven’t watched it back) was Yan pressing pretty much all the way through, landing the bigger shots, takedowns, and having significant GC.

I’ll admit I’m basing this off one live viewing, but Yan certainly seemed to dominate the majority of the fight, and I had it 30-27 or possibly 29-28. Seems like an awful lot of public/media opinion seems to agree with that assessment, and I’m sure the odds were Yan -800 after the final bell (commentary said this) which shows even the bookies had him winning
 
T00lsh3d said:
I see the ‘number of significant strikes’ come up, but other than one punch in the second, and the knee that cut Yan in the third, I don’t remember anything decent getting through from O’Malley. The fight I remember (and I haven’t watched it back) was Yan pressing pretty much all the way through, landing the bigger shots, takedowns, and having significant GC.

I’ll admit I’m basing this off one live viewing, but Yan certainly seemed to dominate the majority of the fight, and I had it 30-27 or possibly 29-28. Seems like an awful lot of public/media opinion seems to agree with that assessment, and I’m sure the odds were Yan -800 after the final bell (commentary said this) which shows even the bookies had him winning
Click to expand...

I thought Yan had it 29-28 across the board, but it was close enough to where I could see the possibility of it going the other way. Tough luck for him as Dana seems to be pushing for Sterling to fight Cejudo next. That division is basically decimated at this point with TJ, Dom, Cody et al no longer as relevant as in past years and Yan was supposed to be the guy who rejuvenated it a bit. Hopefully Henry comes back and injects some spice back into BW.
 
Raoul said:
I thought Yan had it 29-28 across the board, but it was close enough to where I could see the possibility of it going the other way. Tough luck for him as Dana seems to be pushing for Sterling to fight Cejudo next. That division is basically decimated at this point with TJ, Dom, Cody et al no longer as relevant as in past years and Yan was supposed to be the guy who rejuvenated it a bit. Hopefully Henry comes back and injects some spice back into BW.
Click to expand...
Crazy to think Yan has 3 losses in 4 fights now. He looked so good against Aldo. I’m convinced it all went downhill when Sterling said he was going to “cum on his ass”. He’s never been the same since
 
JP77 said:
It's a view you have, not most MMA fans. Gaethje, Poirier and Chandler are all rated by most MMA fans. Nobody is emotional, I'm just trying to be respectful to you when you're coming out with absolutely mental statements tbf. We'll revisit this in about a years time mate and see.
Click to expand...

To be honest my issue isn't with the quality of those 3 guys but more that they are place holding the top of the division. Poirier and Chandler shouldn't be fighting each other after their recent results, they should be fighting down the rankings a bit. Arman Tsarukyan would be a good test for both and deserves the chance (arguably beat Gamrot). Gaethje should 100% be fighting Fiziev, hell it's even a favourable match up for him. I'd like to see the 3 guys against Islam but I hate seeing them being allowed to just fight amongst themselves and not having to defend their position in the division to other up and comers. If they beat those guys then another title shot isn't an issue for me.

For instance if Chandler beats Poirier he'll be looking for another title shot after only beating Hooker and Dustin. That's a bit shit for me when the division is so full of talent.
 
kidbob said:
To be honest my issue isn't with the quality of those 3 guys but more that they are place holding the top of the division. Poirier and Chandler shouldn't be fighting each other after their recent results, they should be fighting down the rankings a bit. Arman Tsarukyan would be a good test for both and deserves the chance (arguably beat Gamrot). Gaethje should 100% be fighting Fiziev, hell it's even a favourable match up for him. I'd like to see the 3 guys against Islam but I hate seeing them being allowed to just fight amongst themselves and not having to defend their position in the division to other up and comers. If they beat those guys then another title shot isn't an issue for me.

For instance if Chandler beats Poirier he'll be looking for another title shot after only beating Hooker and Dustin. That's a bit shit for me when the division is so full of talent.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, Gaethje and the loser of Chandler-Poirier should fight down to keep their status in the division
 
kidbob said:
To be honest my issue isn't with the quality of those 3 guys but more that they are place holding the top of the division. Poirier and Chandler shouldn't be fighting each other after their recent results, they should be fighting down the rankings a bit. Arman Tsarukyan would be a good test for both and deserves the chance (arguably beat Gamrot). Gaethje should 100% be fighting Fiziev, hell it's even a favourable match up for him. I'd like to see the 3 guys against Islam but I hate seeing them being allowed to just fight amongst themselves and not having to defend their position in the division to other up and comers. If they beat those guys then another title shot isn't an issue for me.

For instance if Chandler beats Poirier he'll be looking for another title shot after only beating Hooker and Dustin. That's a bit shit for me when the division is so full of talent.
Click to expand...

I can't argue with the UFC match making on this one. Poirier/Chandler is an absolutely brilliant fight, it's surely going to be complete fireworks and a brilliant watch. Two of the top guys going against each other. There's no titles being held up, it's not really effecting the rest of the division. Gaethje rightfully fought for the title after that amazing fight with Chandler. With how entertaining the three have been you can't really blame the UFC for matching them all up together recently, it made for great fights and also there was nobody else ready for title shots when they were getting them. You can argue that there's one or two that are entering the equation at the top now but at the time that wasn't the case.

For example, why is the winner of Chandler or Poirier going to fight down against a much lower ranked guy? Business wise it makes little sense for the winner, of course they'll be talking themselves up for a title shot. With Dariush I'd want to see him beating the loser of Chandler/Poirier or Gaehtje before getting a title shot.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Do you think Volk will open as a favourite? No odds out yet AFAIK.
Click to expand...
No I don’t. There’s a lot of hype behind Islam, especially with Khabib in his corner, plus he’s the natural at the weight whilst people believe Volkonovski is both too small and inexperienced a weight class up not knowing he used to be a 200lb+ athlete.

The odds should heavily favour Islam; I think there’s good money to be made on Volk, and I intend to put a decent amount on him when the longest odds come out.
 
Raoul said:
I did as well. The takedowns (6) didn’t seem to get counted enough in his favor Imo.
Click to expand...
Raoul said:
I did as well. The takedowns (6) didn’t seem to get counted enough in his favor Imo.
Click to expand...
I reread the scoring rules, and they weren’t quite what I remembered. They combine striking and grappling as the first criteria, called “Striking/Grappling”, and they define a takedown differently than I think we are. It’s not just the establishing of position on the ground but the use of it to achieve an attack.

“It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown.”

It was 5 years ago when they were explaining the new scoring during shows, but this must be why I have it in my head that “just” takedowns alone don’t score.

What I think they were looking to prevent is scoring where a guy like Dominick Cruz would look for a late takedown in a match that otherwise was even or where he was slightly behind, and secure the round by being the only one scoring in the grappling area, overshadowing the smaller difference in striking performances.

There’s also emphasis on scoring a big strike more than a succession of smaller strikes, which may have won Sean the 3rd thanks to that knee.

Yan did very little damage on the ground.
 
Fortitude said:
No I don’t. There’s a lot of hype behind Islam, especially with Khabib in his corner, plus he’s the natural at the weight whilst people believe Volkonovski is both too small and inexperienced a weight class up not knowing he used to be a 200lb+ athlete.

The odds should heavily favour Islam; I think there’s good money to be made on Volk, and I intend to put a decent amount on him when the longest odds come out.
Click to expand...
I can see it being pretty narrow, I think for this one Islam was 1.6ish and Charles 2.4ish?
I’d imagine something similar.

Btw, who is the best grappler Volk has faced? Ortega had him in some bad spots with the triangle & mounted guillotine
 
I can't see a way Volk could beat Islam. He won't be able to avoid him for 25 minutes. Islam would be far too strong.
 
Name Changed said:
I can't see a way Volk could beat Islam. He won't be able to avoid him for 25 minutes. Islam would be far too strong.
Click to expand...

I think he has a shot. Volk is relentless and doesn’t seem to have any holes in his game. The fact that he was once a heavyweight should make it easy for him to fight 10 pounds heavier.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.