The MMA thread



Everyone will be relieved to know that Khamzat and Team Khabib are apparently friends again, apparently thanks to the intervention of Kadyrov :smirk:

How to look like you're not actually a man after looking very manly a few days before: show respect for Kadyrov.
 
I can't see a way Volk could beat Islam. He won't be able to avoid him for 25 minutes. Islam would be far too strong.

I think so too, but Volk is a better fighter than anyone at 155 at the moment, so might as well book this fight. I also wonder how much tougher it will be to take him down due to his low base.
His limbs are much shorter and center of gravity is lower, so it won't be the same as taking down the guys Islam usually takes down.

I do agree about the difference in strength, and I think that's the biggest seperator. If Islam clinches and leans into him, he'll be able to wear him down easier. If he gets on top, Volk will have an extremely hard time even sweeping.
 
Colby would have a great shot if he could cut the weight. Islam probably walks around bigger than him as it is.
I’ve never heard talk of Colby moving down, only up. As far as I know he doesn’t do big cuts as it depletes his cardio, so not sure how he’d feel about moving down
 
I can see it being pretty narrow, I think for this one Islam was 1.6ish and Charles 2.4ish?
I’d imagine something similar.

Btw, who is the best grappler Volk has faced? Ortega had him in some bad spots with the triangle & mounted guillotine
I would be surprised if Volk isn't written off, personally; most times fighters go up in weight they aren't expected to win, and with the hype surrounding Islam, I expect that will be amplified multiple times over.

What I would note about the current Volkonovski is he doesn't fight, think or move like he used to. His stand up has improved stratospherically and so has his fight IQ and understanding of range, angles and movement - if Islam is a chasm in class with grappling, Volkonovski is exactly the same in terms of stand up, and further, he is way faster and mobile. Islam does not have the nous to close those distances or prevent him sliding out of danger; people are saying Islam gets his hands on him and it's over... with the part about how that comes about in the first place omitted.
 
I would be surprised if Volk isn't written off, personally; most times fighters go up in weight they aren't expected to win, and with the hype surrounding Islam, I expect that will be amplified multiple times over.

What I would note about the current Volkonovski is he doesn't fight, think or move like he used to. His stand up has improved stratospherically and so has his fight IQ and understanding of range, angles and movement - if Islam is a chasm in class with grappling, Volkonovski is exactly the same in terms of stand up, and further, he is way faster and mobile. Islam does not have the nous to close those distances or prevent him sliding out of danger; people are saying Islam gets his hands on him and it's over... with the part about how that comes about in the first place omitted.
What I’d be interested to see is if his striking and movement is compromised by the threat of a takedown. We’ve seen strikers go against the Dagestani wrestlers and they’re not able to utilise their striking fully because they’re so guarded to avoid being taken down.
Agree though, Volk’s striking and movement has become insane, and combined with his long reach comparative to his body shape, he could be a pain in the arse for Islam. He is lacking a bit of knockout power though
 
I would be surprised if Volk isn't written off, personally; most times fighters go up in weight they aren't expected to win, and with the hype surrounding Islam, I expect that will be amplified multiple times over.

What I would note about the current Volkonovski is he doesn't fight, think or move like he used to. His stand up has improved stratospherically and so has his fight IQ and understanding of range, angles and movement - if Islam is a chasm in class with grappling, Volkonovski is exactly the same in terms of stand up, and further, he is way faster and mobile. Islam does not have the nous to close those distances or prevent him sliding out of danger; people are saying Islam gets his hands on him and it's over... with the part about how that comes about in the first place omitted.

I don't think that's the case, it's just that 25 minutes is an awful long time to box and move and not get into grappling exchanges. I think Islam will have some issues of course standing up as there's definitely a big edge to Volk in the striking department - he probably has the most crisp hands in the UFC right now, but let's also not forget Islam also outstruck Oliveira here which nobody expected him to do. His striking is definitely much better than a lot of people have given him credit for. And as good as Volk is at maintaining distance on the feet, Islam is also excellent at closing the gap and getting his hands on people.

And ultimately I just don't think he'll need to do it too many times. Volk is very strong at 145 but the move up to 155 and going up against somebody else who is also super strong and big at the weight is going to wipe out a lot of that. But regardless Islam has enough tricks up his sleeve with the trips and judo throws and sweeps etc that he doesn't need to double-leg and overpower Volk to get him down. And I think once he does it's almost game over, Volk is extremely tough as we saw from the T-City fight but ultimately, I don't think he has the nous on the ground to stop Islam transitioning position and finding submission attempts regularly.
 
To be honest my issue isn't with the quality of those 3 guys but more that they are place holding the top of the division. Poirier and Chandler shouldn't be fighting each other after their recent results, they should be fighting down the rankings a bit. Arman Tsarukyan would be a good test for both and deserves the chance (arguably beat Gamrot). Gaethje should 100% be fighting Fiziev, hell it's even a favorable match up for him. I'd like to see the 3 guys against Islam but I hate seeing them being allowed to just fight amongst themselves and not having to defend their position in the division to other up and comers. If they beat those guys, then another title shot isn't an issue for me.

For instance if Chandler beats Poirier he'll be looking for another title shot after only beating Hooker and Dustin. That's a bit shit for me when the division is so full of talent.

The rank squatters deciding to fight themselves was not good for the division, but fortunately, with the latest rankings update, Dariush has rightfully catapulted himself over the three you mentioned.
Gaethje should absolutely fight Fiziev, and has been publicly called out by Fiziev several times, to which Gaethje has had very little to say. It's time for all of them to fight other contenders to earn title shots; if they don't, they should be dropping down the rankings.

The bit in bold is spot on. Chandler (having lost 2 of his last 3 going into his fight, with his win being against a washed-up Ferguson) beating Poirier (submitted by Charles in his last fight) should not give Chandler another title shot. Poirier beating Chandler should - likewise - not give him another title shot. As you pointed out, they should all be forced to fight the Tsarukyans, Fizievs and Gamrots to maintain their rankings. Either way, glad they all moved down, if only by 2 spots for now.

1Islam Makhachev23-112-1W-Charles Oliveira (SUB)
W-Bobby Green (TKO)
W-Dan Hooker (SUB)
2Charles Oliveira33-921-9L-Islam Makhachev (SUB)
W-Justin Gaethje (SUB)
W-Dustin Poirier (SUB)
3Beneil Dariush22-4-116-4-1W-Mateusz Gamrot (DEC)
W-Tony Ferguson (DEC)
W-Diego Ferreira (DEC)
 
The rank squatters deciding to fight themselves was not good for the division, but fortunately, with the latest rankings update, Dariush has rightfully catapulted himself over the three you mentioned.
Gaethje should absolutely fight Fiziev, and has been publicly called out by Fiziev several times, to which Gaethje has had very little to say. It's time for all of them to fight other contenders to earn title shots; if they don't, they should be dropping down the rankings.

The bit in bold is spot on. Chandler (having lost 2 of his last 3 going into his fight, with his win being against a washed-up Ferguson) beating Poirier (submitted by Charles in his last fight) should not give Chandler another title shot. Poirier beating Chandler should - likewise - not give him another title shot. As you pointed out, they should all be forced to fight the Tsarukyans, Fizievs and Gamrots to maintain their rankings. Either way, glad they all moved down, if only by 2 spots for now.

1Islam Makhachev23-112-1W-Charles Oliveira (SUB)
W-Bobby Green (TKO)
W-Dan Hooker (SUB)
2Charles Oliveira33-921-9L-Islam Makhachev (SUB)
W-Justin Gaethje (SUB)
W-Dustin Poirier (SUB)
3Beneil Dariush22-4-116-4-1W-Mateusz Gamrot (DEC)
W-Tony Ferguson (DEC)
W-Diego Ferreira (DEC)

Who's rankings are these? Dariush is #4 in the UFC website rankings, still behind Poirier and Gaethje.
 
I don't think that's the case, it's just that 25 minutes is an awful long time to box and move and not get into grappling exchanges.
I don't think you can frame it like that, really. It doesn't take more than 10 minutes for the tables to turn emphatically to the point the grappler is both out of ideas and sick and tired of being hit; Islam has to plough a very lonely furrow chasing after a vastly superior striker who delights in wrapping his shin across the calves, peppering jabs and strikes from awkward angles and rapidly exiting whichever line he chose to attack from. Islam is a plodder with poor striking; he needs the fight to be right in front of him, not chasing, or trying to close angles off with his own strikes. That means too many reckless engagements and shot attempts, and of which could end him. I can't really emphasize enough how big the gap is in the stand up between these two.

I think Islam will have some issues of course standing up as there's definitely a big edge to Volk in the striking department - he probably has the most crisp hands in the UFC right now, but let's also not forget Islam also outstruck Oliveira here which nobody expected him to do. His striking is definitely much better than a lot of people have given him credit for.
Oliveria's striking really isn't very good, he also fights in straight lines with risky strike attempts and plenty of chances to be hit flush, which is what has happened to him too many times to mention, just that his work off his back prevented the finish or even a consideration of following him to the deck until now. Volkonovski is a wholly different proposition - he is never there to be hit, he does not stay on the centre line, ever, he is awkward because of his height and long appendages and he prides himself on picking fighters apart. Nothing Islam did to Oliveria will have a bearing in a fight with Volkonovski - those two are at polar opposite ends in terms of fight approach and intent, and I'd also say in terms of fight IQ, too. I'm not knocking Charles, but there was plenty of reasons to think he'd lose vs Islam and none of them apply to Volkonovski.
And as good as Volk is at maintaining distance on the feet, Islam is also excellent at closing the gap and getting his hands on people.
He hasn't fought the pedigree of opponents to say that with regards to the top-level. It may be true, it might not be, but there's no certainty he has a clue what to do when a fighter isn't coming straight at him.

And ultimately I just don't think he'll need to do it too many times. Volk is very strong at 145 but the move up to 155 and going up against somebody else who is also super strong and big at the weight is going to wipe out a lot of that. But regardless Islam has enough tricks up his sleeve with the trips and judo throws and sweeps etc that he doesn't need to double-leg and overpower Volk to get him down. And I think once he does it's almost game over, Volk is extremely tough as we saw from the T-City fight but ultimately, I don't think he has the nous on the ground to stop Islam transitioning position and finding submission attempts regularly.
I truly believe it will be an easy and consummate victory. It won't be written as such, for obvious reasons, with the main one being, if anything, people expect a wash the other way round, but I expect Volkonovski to make Islam look like he doesn't belong in the octagon with him. Egg on my face if I'm wrong, but there's nothing I've seen that makes me think otherwise. Grappling won't be a factor in this fight, which renders Islam's chance of winning it almost null, to my eyes. I'm very happy to go way against the tide, and as I say, I expect Islam will be seen as the overwhelming favourite to just maul the little Australian.
 
What I’d be interested to see is if his striking and movement is compromised by the threat of a takedown. We’ve seen strikers go against the Dagestani wrestlers and they’re not able to utilise their striking fully because they’re so guarded to avoid being taken down.
Agree though, Volk’s striking and movement has become insane, and combined with his long reach comparative to his body shape, he could be a pain in the arse for Islam. He is lacking a bit of knockout power though
Being square and ploddy is going to work against Islam, for me, he'll have to open up his own stance to have a hope in the stand up, which will compromise him and his approach. If he doesn't, he'll be chasing shadows all night, for me.
 
Who's rankings are these? Dariush is #4 in the UFC website rankings, still behind Poirier and Gaethje.

Oh, I got it from an MMA forum. I assumed it was the UFC's ranking. If it isn't, then I don't understand why someone bothered to provide someone else's rankings.
I just looked at the UFC's official website, and you're right. I'm seeing the same thing.
 
As much as I love Olivera, he was sort of champ by default, I'm my mind. He's certainly improved over his years in the org, but it's not been the typical run from low ranking to high and then the title, like with Islam. I did think he had a shot at getting the belt someday, but only under the right circumstances.
 
As much as I love Olivera, he was sort of champ by default, I'm my mind. He's certainly improved over his years in the org, but it's not been the typical run from low ranking to high and then the title, like with Islam. I did think he had a shot at getting the belt someday, but only under the right circumstances.
Islam went from low ranking straight to a title shot pretty much bar the exception of a couple of mid-tier guys. He avoided Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler. The best guys he beat is probably Hooker (a gatekeeper). His title shot came on the back of beating Bobby fecking Green. He may have a long reign and be a great champion, I have no idea... but I do know for a fact that if you look down his fight record... it shocking how he has avoided the holy trinity (and Dariush) to get a title shot.
 
Islam went from low ranking straight to a title shot pretty much bar the exception of a couple of mid-tier guys. He avoided Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler. The best guys he beat is probably Hooker (a gatekeeper). His title shot came on the back of beating Bobby fecking Green. He may have a long reign and be a great champion, I have no idea... but I do know for a fact that if you look down his fight record... it shocking how he has avoided the holy trinity (and Dariush) to get a title shot.
All true. He would probably feck all three (four) of them up though, which takes the edge off it
 
Islam went from low ranking straight to a title shot pretty much bar the exception of a couple of mid-tier guys. He avoided Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler. The best guys he beat is probably Hooker (a gatekeeper). His title shot came on the back of beating Bobby fecking Green. He may have a long reign and be a great champion, I have no idea... but I do know for a fact that if you look down his fight record... it shocking how he has avoided the holy trinity (and Dariush) to get a title shot.

Similar thing happened with Edwards, who somehow managed a title shot without having to go through Colby (who would've probably beat him). Although Leon did fight slightly better fighters than Islam did en route to a title shot.
 
Should be a 2 on 1 match. That would be fun :lol:
Chandler would absolutely end up KO’ing Poirier ‘by mistake’. I can actually see Chandler doing a very WWE-style “oh no!” reaction after Islam ducks his front kick and it clobbers Poirier
 
Similar thing happened with Edwards, who somehow managed a title shot without having to go through Colby (who would've probably beat him). Although Leon did fight slightly better fighters than Islam did en route to a title shot.
Colby can’t lose every title fight he has, sit back and let others beat each other then fight for a title shot after a loss. He had a bad habit of doing that.
 
I thought Yan should've edged that. O'Malley outstruck him but Yan took him down about half a dozen times.

Yan actually had more total strikes on target, 97 to 91. In terms of significant strikes O'Malley somehow mustered 84/163 of them against 58/96 and then you have the time of control 5:44 for Yan against 0.02 for O'Malley.
Now one may look at the significant strikes and say that it's why O'Malley won but there is a massive issue. Qualitatively Yan was the superior fighter 60% of his strikes were significant against 51% for O'Malley.

For some reason I like watching O'Malley fight and despite his persona I find myself routing for him but the judges botched that one badly and stats weren't even needed to come to that conclusion. The only argument in their favor is that they valued quantity but they completely ignored quality while also ignoring wrestling.
 
Islam went from low ranking straight to a title shot pretty much bar the exception of a couple of mid-tier guys. He avoided Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler. The best guys he beat is probably Hooker (a gatekeeper). His title shot came on the back of beating Bobby fecking Green. He may have a long reign and be a great champion, I have no idea... but I do know for a fact that if you look down his fight record... it shocking how he has avoided the holy trinity (and Dariush) to get a title shot.

If I'm not mistaken, he isn't the one that avoided fighters?
 
I mean everyone says everyone is avoiding them. I don't really listen to any of it.

Any of them could have called him out, it's not as if he didn't made it clear that he wanted to fight for the belt. So I'm inclined to believe that they didn't want to fight him and the reason is kind of obvious, he is a matchup nightmare.
 
Islam went from low ranking straight to a title shot pretty much bar the exception of a couple of mid-tier guys. He avoided Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler. The best guys he beat is probably Hooker (a gatekeeper). His title shot came on the back of beating Bobby fecking Green. He may have a long reign and be a great champion, I have no idea... but I do know for a fact that if you look down his fight record... it shocking how he has avoided the holy trinity (and Dariush) to get a title shot.
Fair enough, some people get to skip ahead more than others. But I'm sure they look at the odds on fights, and considering Islam was the betting favorite against the champ, and it's fairly rare to see the challenger favored for the title, the decision makes sense to me. They tend to look for the best fights on paper, ones that are fairly close odds wise.

Likely we'll see Islam fight all the guys you mentioned in the future.
 
Any of them could have called him out, it's not as if he didn't made it clear that he wanted to fight for the belt. So I'm inclined to believe that they didn't want to fight him and the reason is kind of obvious, he is a matchup nightmare.
But people usually call out other fighters higher ranked (or McGregor)... That's pretty normal. If Islam is ranked let's say 10th and Poirier is 3rd, it doesn't make sense for Dustin to call him out.
 
If I'm not mistaken, he isn't the one that avoided fighters?

Correct, he was begging to fight top 5 guys for a few years. Didn't happen for a variety of reasons, whether opponents having a serious injury like Beneil earlier this year, or a guy like Poirier rather fighting Conor because that was a much easier fight for him while simultaniously earning him way more money and publicity. The UFC matchmaking and what's best or most lucrative for the organisation also plays a very big part in what match ups fighters get, ultimately the UFC has so much control. Only thing Islam didn't do was that weird Rafael dos Anjos fight at 165 in March this year, which was meaningless and didn't make any sense for him at this point in his career.

Some of the discussions on this last page are quite bizarre, I'd say the fact that Makhachev hasn't fought someone like Gaethje or Chandler takes nothing away from the fact that he's been the most talented LW out there for a few years, probably since Khabib retired. Doesn't mean he's unbeatable, no one truly is unbeatable in MMA with small gloves and one punch being able to change everything, like his only loss shows. The amount of discredit I see for his 10 fight win streak before Saturday's title fight is just weird though. He put in some very good performances where it was so very clear he just has very little flaws in his game and is a terrible match up for everyone in the division, regardless of the quality of the opponents he was facing. Like take the Dan Hooker fight, even if that guy had 6 months to prepare and the best training camp of his life, after Saturday it's not unlikely to think that their fight would've gone exactly the same, and he would've still made him look like an amateur. But because Hooker took it on three weeks notice, Islam doesn't get full credit.

Love that he wants Volkanovski next by the way, that's one hell of a fight. And he also asked for Beneil if the Volkanovski fight falls through, I think both of those guys very much deserve a LW title shot. I would really, really like to see a rematch with Oliveira too next year, if he retains his title. Charles didn't look on Islam's level Saturday, but I can't help but love the guy. He's been so spectacular and such a savage over the last years, maybe they could do it in Rio de Janeiro, imagine Charles just raising his level a little before a crazy Brazilian home crowd and Islam struggling a little more, it could be such a good match.
 
I think he has a shot. Volk is relentless and doesn’t seem to have any holes in his game. The fact that he was once a heavyweight should make it easy for him to fight 10 pounds heavier.

He should have been choked out by Ortega though. If Islam gets him in a position like that, I can't see him get out of it.
 
Similar thing happened with Edwards, who somehow managed a title shot without having to go through Colby (who would've probably beat him). Although Leon did fight slightly better fighters than Islam did en route to a title shot.

I think that's a little unfair.
  • Beat RDA who was #4 at the time.
  • Accepted a #1 contender fight with Woodley (but missed out because of Covid and the first lockdown)
  • Accepted a fight with Khamzat, even though he was unranked with 3 fights in the UFC.
  • Fought Belal on his return, who was ranked 10 spots below him.
  • Accepted a fight with Masvidal, who pulled out 'injured'.
 
I think that's a little unfair.
  • Beat RDA who was #4 at the time.
  • Accepted a #1 contender fight with Woodley (but missed out because of Covid and the first lockdown)
  • Accepted a fight with Khamzat, even though he was unranked with 3 fights in the UFC.
  • Fought Belal on his return, who was ranked 10 spots below him.
  • Accepted a fight with Masvidal, who pulled out 'injured'.

I'm not blaming either Edwards or Islam for this. The UFC makes the fights and has a history of slow rolling fighters it deems unmarketable, until they are absolutely forced to give them big fights because everyone thinks they deserve one.
 
UFC prelims about to start (Bellator main card too).

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