Ball's in our court - time to widen the gap to five.
The Manchester Title Race
- Thread starter charlenefan
- Start date
Blackburn is a potential bananaskin I reckon. A win there and its a huge step towards the title. We tend to do badly against them and they're doing well of late.
would do a great job of airbrushing out of memory and his trot, the embarrassment of our getting hammered 1-6 at Old Trafford earlier on in the season.
Sure, that game will always be there in the record books, but its significance will have been totally erased if what you say above can happen. Esp if we cane also smash thin 1-6 on their patch.
Tend to agree with this. Today we're all cheery because we expected them to win comfortably and yet they limped to a draw. That's great for us. But all this talk of being 5 points clear or possibly being 8 points clear, I think we have to realise that there's still a while to go yet and some of the seemingly 'easy' fixtures may well turn out to be grittier than they look on paper.
Of course we're going to be optimistic, and of course we are now the favourites. But we need to just take it one game at a time and realise that somewhere along the way we probably will drop a few more points, but that even if/when this happens we're still placed well because we're much more experienced with dealing with a pressured run-in than the ego filled and comparatively inexperienced City squad.
The fixture lists distorted Cities lead a couple of months ago. They have much harder away games in the run in, and their away form is not good. The way they have been playing at away the games at Arsenal, Norwich and Newcastle are all hurdles.
Oh come on. Im getting abit fed up with all this caution and superstition nonsense. We are Manchester United, currently Champions of the English League and now in pole position to win it again this year. And we have a club full of staff and players who know who to win titles.
If we are to be Champions, we have to be confident about winning such games. If we can't win such games, then we should not even contemplate being champions.
Since SAF won his 1st league game, I have expected us to win every game we play. Sure we don't and its an impossibility, but we should have the confidence to assume so. Its not arrogance, just a collective belief that we have the staff and quality of players, steeped in experience, to know how to do the job.
I wrote in another thread somewhere, just between SAF, Scholes and Giggs we have 60 years of cumulative experience of being in this position at this stage of the season. Sure, we have not won every league title since the PL's inception, but this sort of situation is normal for the club and its supporters.
Lose to the likes of Blackburn and QPR is what mid table teams do, not the actions of teams who aspire to be champions of their national league. I expect us to win our last 8 games period. And it won't be the first time that Manchester United has won 8 games straight in the PL.
As for City, the source of their wealth aside, this will have been a great learning for them and make them stronger for next year. But the most important thing their fans will have learnt is that not all the money in the world, buying the very best players in the world, all in one season, can win you the league.
There is no I in TEAM. And thats why we have the edge on them at this stage in the season, arguably with a weaker squad.
Winning the final eight games in the premiership is pretty much unheard of TBH. I am not sure United have ever done it, seven maybe but not eight.
It's not 'nonsense' to acknowledge that some games are tricky though. Blackburn away is a hard game. The same way that we all know that somewhere like Stoke is a hard away game.
Of course we'll probably win it and we have the calibre to do so, because as you say, we're champions. But to assume we're going to do so and not acknowledge that we might have to be at our best against a scrappy side is fairly reasonable. It's not any kind of comment about our squad or our staff. It's just acknowledging that at this time of year especially, you do get bizarre results and teams playing out their skin to save themselves from the drop and as a result, no three points is a given.
Of course we'll probably win it and we have the calibre to do so, because as you say, we're champions. But to assume we're going to do so and not acknowledge that we might have to be at our best against a scrappy side is fairly reasonable. It's not any kind of comment about our squad or our staff. It's just acknowledging that at this time of year especially, you do get bizarre results and teams playing out their skin to save themselves from the drop and as a result, no three points is a given.
I might get a perverse pleasure out of it if they beat us at theirs - as long as we have the league in the bag by then. Can you imagine how frustrating it will for them and their supporters to beat us twice and still lose the title. 
We've reached a point where there's nothing left to discuss. This thread has descended into people stating the obvious over and over again.
I always felt that if we got through our injury crisis in December within 5 points of City going into the new year, that we would have a fantastic chance of catching them.
I'd actually like it more if we WIN it at the Wasteland.
Sir Alex can walk onto the pitch to clap at our away support & all that.
Was this the day Manchester City's title hopes unravelled?
An excellent Sunderland performance has exposed Manchester City as increasingly tired, grumpy and bereft of ideas
Daniel Taylor; The Guardian
Mario Balotelli argues with his Manchester City team-mates after demanding to take a free-kick against Sunderland. Photograph: Paul Ellis/AFP/Getty Images
It was difficult not to come away thinking this was the moment when it all unravelled for Manchester City. It had been a spirited and desperate comeback, very nearly a glorious one, but they could not concoct a final, dramatic winner and the simple fact is a 3-3 draw against Sunderland is not enough. City have picked a bad time to go through their first sustained loss of form and the consequences threaten to be serious.
The deterioration set in a while ago but when the story comes to be told of the 2011-12 season City might reflect on the day their immaculate home record crumpled and it needed two late goals to salvage the single point. Roberto Mancini's team looked tired, grumpy and short of ideas and it was easy to imagine Sir Alex Ferguson's rubicund glow when the news reached him on Manchester United's golfing break at St Andrews. It was on the fairway that he heard the news of his first-ever Premier League title in 1993, and now maybe his 13th.
Mancini had made it clear beforehand that his team needed to win all their remaining games and, from here, they may have to reinvent themselves if the damage is not going to be irreparable. Even then, it may not be enough.
For the first time United are in a position, two points clear with a game in hand, whereby they can lose the derby on 30 April and still be certain of claiming the title if they win their other games.
It is all in their hands and when Mancini talked about fancying fourth-from-bottom Blackburn to get a draw against United on Monday – "I don't know why, I just do, why not?" – it cannot be said he sounded terribly convincing. In fact, it was difficult to recall the last time he looked so down. "It's going to be hard," he said. "It depends on Monday and, after that, we have seven games. We are still in the title race because eight games is enough for United to do two draws. But we needed to win this match and we didn't have a good performance."
There was unmistakable sadness in his voice, but anger too. Mario Balotelli may have scored twice but, once again, he was left to graze in the scapegoat's paddock. Mancini had contemplated substituting him "after five minutes" but decided against it on the basis he had only one striker, the not fully-fit Carlos Tevez, on the bench. "If we had Sergio Agüero we would have won," City's manager said, eyes smouldering. "Mario didn't play well. In a game like this, the strikers need to be the difference – not just in the last two or three minutes."
Agüero had been missing, Mancini confirmed, after suffering burns from a pain-killing spray while treating a foot injury he had picked up against Chelsea. "It was not his fault," Mancini emphasised, which left the distinct impression his annoyance lies with the club's medical staff.
Whatever the truth, the fact is Balotelli and Edin Dzeko have started only four games together this season, and City have not won any. Seldom have they looked so dishevelled, so frequently disorganised and vulnerable. David Silva, brilliant throughout the first two-thirds of the season, lasted only 58 minutes and, frankly, looked worn out. James Milner was nutmegged by James McClean inside the first 10 minutes and his afternoon got even worse. He was partly to blame for both of Sunderland's first two goals and, after the second, became embroiled in an angry exchange with Mancini. When he was substituted in the second half, manager and player studiously ignored one another.
The lingering memory, however, will be that moment, at 3-1, when City had a free-kick within shooting distance. Balotelli was there first and took the ball from Nigel de Jong. Aleksandar Kolarov came over as the designated free-kick specialist, except Balotelli did not want to hand it over. So Kolarov waited for Balotelli to put the ball down before picking it up and taking control. Balotelli tried to grab it back. There was jostling. Eventually, Vincent Kompany and De Jong told Balotelli to clear off. It was playground stuff. More than anything, it was the kind of scene that simply would not occur with Ferguson's players. Mancini shook his head afterwards. "It can happen. But this is the last time," he said.
For the first time there were audible boos for Balotelli, a player normally given almost unconditional support from City's crowd. With Agüero missing, City really needed someone who is capable of serious, grown-up football.
Instead they got the stroppy teenager routine. These are the moments when Mancini must wonder if he is deluding himself thinking that Balotelli might one day be in the same bracket as Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Increasingly this season, there have been indications his faith in the player is wearing thin. When Balotelli scored to make it 3-2 Mancini did not even leave his seat. He simply sat there, shaking his head.
The pity for Sunderland is that so much focus is on the title race they might not get the praise they deserve. It should not be lost how well they played. Martin O'Neill's restoration work with Nicklas Bendtner alone is worthy of considerable assessment. "I thought he played like a proper centre-forward," the manager said. "When he plays like that, he justifies his own self-vaunted opinion."
Stéphane Sessègnon, Craig Gardner and Sebastian Larsson all pushed Bendtner close as the game's outstanding player. Lee Cattermole was excellent, too. O'Neill felt his team had been "brilliant" and deserved to win. "We have some really disappointed players in the dressing room."
Mancini, in stark contrast, used words such as "crazy" and "flat" and "strange". The City manager waited to remonstrate with the referee, Phil Dowd, at the final whistle, convinced that more stoppage time should have been played, but it was City who benefited from the most contentious decision, when Dzeko ran into Craig Gardner and won a soft penalty. "My initial reaction was that he was going to book their player," O'Neill reflected. "I should have known better."
He looked almost as aggrieved as Mancini, though not quite. United's next four games are all against bottom-six teams followed by a visit from Everton, who have not won at Old Trafford since 1992. City have been brilliant at times this season, smashing records, winning admirers and, lest it be forgotten, beating United 6-1. Now, they may just have blown it.
An excellent Sunderland performance has exposed Manchester City as increasingly tired, grumpy and bereft of ideas
Daniel Taylor; The Guardian
Mario Balotelli argues with his Manchester City team-mates after demanding to take a free-kick against Sunderland. Photograph: Paul Ellis/AFP/Getty Images
It was difficult not to come away thinking this was the moment when it all unravelled for Manchester City. It had been a spirited and desperate comeback, very nearly a glorious one, but they could not concoct a final, dramatic winner and the simple fact is a 3-3 draw against Sunderland is not enough. City have picked a bad time to go through their first sustained loss of form and the consequences threaten to be serious.
The deterioration set in a while ago but when the story comes to be told of the 2011-12 season City might reflect on the day their immaculate home record crumpled and it needed two late goals to salvage the single point. Roberto Mancini's team looked tired, grumpy and short of ideas and it was easy to imagine Sir Alex Ferguson's rubicund glow when the news reached him on Manchester United's golfing break at St Andrews. It was on the fairway that he heard the news of his first-ever Premier League title in 1993, and now maybe his 13th.
Mancini had made it clear beforehand that his team needed to win all their remaining games and, from here, they may have to reinvent themselves if the damage is not going to be irreparable. Even then, it may not be enough.
For the first time United are in a position, two points clear with a game in hand, whereby they can lose the derby on 30 April and still be certain of claiming the title if they win their other games.
It is all in their hands and when Mancini talked about fancying fourth-from-bottom Blackburn to get a draw against United on Monday – "I don't know why, I just do, why not?" – it cannot be said he sounded terribly convincing. In fact, it was difficult to recall the last time he looked so down. "It's going to be hard," he said. "It depends on Monday and, after that, we have seven games. We are still in the title race because eight games is enough for United to do two draws. But we needed to win this match and we didn't have a good performance."
There was unmistakable sadness in his voice, but anger too. Mario Balotelli may have scored twice but, once again, he was left to graze in the scapegoat's paddock. Mancini had contemplated substituting him "after five minutes" but decided against it on the basis he had only one striker, the not fully-fit Carlos Tevez, on the bench. "If we had Sergio Agüero we would have won," City's manager said, eyes smouldering. "Mario didn't play well. In a game like this, the strikers need to be the difference – not just in the last two or three minutes."
Agüero had been missing, Mancini confirmed, after suffering burns from a pain-killing spray while treating a foot injury he had picked up against Chelsea. "It was not his fault," Mancini emphasised, which left the distinct impression his annoyance lies with the club's medical staff.
Whatever the truth, the fact is Balotelli and Edin Dzeko have started only four games together this season, and City have not won any. Seldom have they looked so dishevelled, so frequently disorganised and vulnerable. David Silva, brilliant throughout the first two-thirds of the season, lasted only 58 minutes and, frankly, looked worn out. James Milner was nutmegged by James McClean inside the first 10 minutes and his afternoon got even worse. He was partly to blame for both of Sunderland's first two goals and, after the second, became embroiled in an angry exchange with Mancini. When he was substituted in the second half, manager and player studiously ignored one another.
The lingering memory, however, will be that moment, at 3-1, when City had a free-kick within shooting distance. Balotelli was there first and took the ball from Nigel de Jong. Aleksandar Kolarov came over as the designated free-kick specialist, except Balotelli did not want to hand it over. So Kolarov waited for Balotelli to put the ball down before picking it up and taking control. Balotelli tried to grab it back. There was jostling. Eventually, Vincent Kompany and De Jong told Balotelli to clear off. It was playground stuff. More than anything, it was the kind of scene that simply would not occur with Ferguson's players. Mancini shook his head afterwards. "It can happen. But this is the last time," he said.
For the first time there were audible boos for Balotelli, a player normally given almost unconditional support from City's crowd. With Agüero missing, City really needed someone who is capable of serious, grown-up football.
Instead they got the stroppy teenager routine. These are the moments when Mancini must wonder if he is deluding himself thinking that Balotelli might one day be in the same bracket as Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Increasingly this season, there have been indications his faith in the player is wearing thin. When Balotelli scored to make it 3-2 Mancini did not even leave his seat. He simply sat there, shaking his head.
The pity for Sunderland is that so much focus is on the title race they might not get the praise they deserve. It should not be lost how well they played. Martin O'Neill's restoration work with Nicklas Bendtner alone is worthy of considerable assessment. "I thought he played like a proper centre-forward," the manager said. "When he plays like that, he justifies his own self-vaunted opinion."
Stéphane Sessègnon, Craig Gardner and Sebastian Larsson all pushed Bendtner close as the game's outstanding player. Lee Cattermole was excellent, too. O'Neill felt his team had been "brilliant" and deserved to win. "We have some really disappointed players in the dressing room."
Mancini, in stark contrast, used words such as "crazy" and "flat" and "strange". The City manager waited to remonstrate with the referee, Phil Dowd, at the final whistle, convinced that more stoppage time should have been played, but it was City who benefited from the most contentious decision, when Dzeko ran into Craig Gardner and won a soft penalty. "My initial reaction was that he was going to book their player," O'Neill reflected. "I should have known better."
He looked almost as aggrieved as Mancini, though not quite. United's next four games are all against bottom-six teams followed by a visit from Everton, who have not won at Old Trafford since 1992. City have been brilliant at times this season, smashing records, winning admirers and, lest it be forgotten, beating United 6-1. Now, they may just have blown it.
I really want to be walking out of Wastelands, champions, singing "6-1, and it meant feck all. 6-1, and it meant feck all."
If we both win all our games between now and then (big if I know) it can be won there. How sweet would that be....
If we both win all our games between now and then (big if I know) it can be won there. How sweet would that be....
Annoying truth is though, we'll drop points before then. It's almost a certainty I'd say.
Football is unpredictable. If it was nobody would watch it. Lets not get too fixed about our position. It's an obvious cliche but simply get the next game played, and clear each hurdle.
Most of all, enjoy every moment whilst they last.
Most of all, enjoy every moment whilst they last.
If we get a good result against Blackburn I don't think we will. QPR and Villa at home we should win comfortably, Wigan away might be a bit tricky but then again we always win there. Everton at home won't be that easy but we're better than them and have more to play for so we should be fine. It's the kind of game that is always tough for us but we end up winning anyway, at least at Old Trafford.
just my thoughts
Which would be sweeter?
Winning the league this year and making the bitters cry, or 2009 when we beat Liverpool to the title and also equalling their record?
Winning the league this year and making the bitters cry, or 2009 when we beat Liverpool to the title and also equalling their record?
You can't really compare.
It seems dumb to blame Balotelli for this loss, his two goals should have been enough to beat Sunderland even without Kolarov adding a 3rd. They scored 3 goals, what do you expect from their offense?
I'd think the more obvious story is conceding 3 to Sunderland at home. But Milner's apparent culpability isn't as 'interesting' a story as blaming Balotelli.
They even had De Jong in there who is an extremely defensive minded midfielder shielding the back four, and still they capitulate 3 times. Not to mention that Kompany was back, they should have been extremely hard to open up.
2009 every time.
Mancini looks utterly resigned to us winning it now. Saying he can do nothing. Wouldn't surprise me if he goes at the end of the season, even his whole body language in the last few games, particularly today, has been so poor. I really can't see them getting back into it now. When you need a leader, he looks as if to say, "Look lads, I'm not doing any more for you, it's up to you to do it yourselves now."
As an aside, Silva played today?!
As an aside, Silva played today?!
Mark 3 will do!
i'll buy you one .... if you succeed in my personal request/challenge to you!
Exactly what I was thinking. Rather than getting the fired up and filling them with confidence it's as if he has given in and feels he's been let down. Ferguson has never acted like that.
I'd rather win at their place, make them watch as our players celebrate on their pitch
I'd take either. I can't see them doing a guard of honour for us though, they just don't have the class for it.
Seeing United come out as champions to a booming away support would be immense though as would winning it there. just hope it's one of them.
We won the last eleven in 99-00.
It's around this time of year that I like to put on last year's Season Review DVD and really get excited about the climax of the title race. But alas no DVD from last year because those clowns at Bombo went and fecked it up.
He said last 8.
It's around this time of year that I like to put on last year's Season Review DVD and really get excited about the climax of the title race. But alas no DVD from last year because those clowns at Bombo went and fecked it up.
Indeed. 1st year that I have not got the season review since 1991
Was a funny season, so full of confidence, we barely got out of first gear but beat teams comfortably.
I reckon it's close to a 40% chance that the league will be decided by this time next week. If we win our next 2 and City fail to beat Arsenal, I don't see any way back for them.
Considering the early doom-mongering (by people like me - idiots!), it'd be amazing if we secured the Prem with a month to spare.
Considering the early doom-mongering (by people like me - idiots!), it'd be amazing if we secured the Prem with a month to spare.
City will beat Arsenal next week, I'm fairly sure of that.
If you look at City's last four games, in all of them they've been desperately seeking a winner or equaliser in the last few minutes. Fair enough they've pulled it off against Chelsea and Sunderland, which shows they have character (as their almost-comeback against us with 10 men also showed). But it's not an encouraging sign for them, and they won't always manage to rescue it.