The Make A Fecking Sub Ole Thread

stw2022 said:
They only made changes because every time their manager looked at the bench he noticed he’d left out someone he didn’t mean to. If he named his best team they too would have remained unchanged for 100 minutes.

This is why substitutions are very rare in football
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They’re 7th in LaLiga! Our squad is better player-for-player. They were just better coached.
 
mancan92 said:
Sir Alex would bring on worse players all the time. He once put John oshea at striker and won. Make a change ffs
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But surely Fergie is the only manager to realise that substitutions don’t necessarily have to mean replacing someone with a better player? I hope one of the resident historians here checks the record books for examples if there have been some
 
I haven’t been as angry about the lack of subs since the Sevilla game last season. On both occasions we didn’t have much quality on the bench but on both occasions it was clear that some players were on their last legs. And still he didn’t change anything.
 
I understand we need subs to have fresh legs, but genuinely who on the bench was gonna make any difference to our attacking unit ? Mata ? Dan James?

The real problem here is our lack of depth
 
As I said in another thread, it was very clear that Ole didn't have any faith in his bench.
 
032Devil said:
As I said in another thread, it was very clear that Ole didn't have any faith in his bench.
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Disagree I think he’s a frustratingly cautious manager and decided rather than try and freshening up the team to try and win the game during the 90 minutes he decided to prepare for penalties very early.
 
el3mel said:
Pretty much anyone would have been helpful to freshen the team. We were completely out of gas by the ET.

This argument is really weird. It almost me feel like other teams have Messi and Ronaldo on the bench.

Which world beaters did Villareal have on the bench by the way ?

It's not like Rashford was doing wonders on the pitch. He was garbage.
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They don't have, but that does not mean that they don't deserve to beat us. They played well tactically and were just as sharp in the penalties. If football is about who has more star players, then how did Greece and Portugal win the Euros when they were playing against teams with so many star players? This is the cruelty of cup games, there is a lot of luck and you need to make things work right first time.

Yes, I agree with you that subs had to be made but he was clearly keeping Rashford, Cavani for the penalties. There is no telling if James or Diallo would have made a difference, given how James is a headless chicken and Diallo isn't integrated in the team.
 
stw2022 said:
But surely Fergie is the only manager to realise that substitutions don’t necessarily have to mean replacing someone with a better player? I hope one of the resident historians here checks the record books for examples if there have been some
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Its almost as if a manager has to use the tools at his disposal to win games. Hmmm weird almost like what emery did tonight. Weird.
 
FahadiHossein said:
Who can you bring on? "Run to the corner flag" Dan James to break down a tight Villarreal defence? "Lost at all times" van de Beek?

Why the disdain on Villarreal?
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What disdain for Villarreal? Are you feeling ok? Or are you having imaginary dialogues with yourself?

What does not making subs when the team starts to tire have to do with Villarreal?
 
FahadiHossein said:
They don't have, but that does not mean that they don't deserve to beat us. They played well tactically and were just as sharp in the penalties. If football is about who has more star players, then how did Greece and Portugal win the Euros when they were playing against teams with so many star players? This is the cruelty of cup games, there is a lot of luck and you need to make things work right first time.

Yes, I agree with you that subs had to be made but he was clearly keeping Rashford, Cavani for the penalties. There is no telling if James or Diallo would have made a difference, given how James is a headless chicken and Diallo isn't integrated in the team.
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Villareal didn't do shit. They were barely even managing to string few passes together. I don't see any brilliant tactics in what they did. Even their defense wasn't that great because they made ton of mistakes in the back and we didn't benefitted from them. They were literally doing stupid back passes in their own half man.

We lost because of us. Villareal weren't great at all. They played the pens well but they were shit over the course of 120 minutes.

The problem is we completely run out of steam after 2nd half. We put all our effort in 2nd half and thanks to lack of subs then, we couldn't manage to complete the game with the same intensity and completely fall apart in ET. The subs came way too late. We shouldn't have even played for the pens.

I don't get the idea about "we don't know if the subs would have done anything". No one reads the future. You don't know what a sub will do. You just do your best and what's most logical, then whatever happens happens. Villareal didn't have world beaters on the bench but they used the subs they have. We should have done that too.
 
The lack of subs really winds me up. Even if it doesn't work out, you have to take a gamble and try something.
 
We haven't had effective players off the bench for so long. When I look at who's on there I almost don't blame him, but Diallo might've been able to offer something.
 
MadMike said:
What disdain for Villarreal? Are you feeling ok? Or are you having imaginary dialogues with yourself?

What does not making subs when the team starts to tire have to do with Villarreal?
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I am not referring to you specifically but the general vibe of the posts, especially the guy below you, who do not feel that Villarreal deserve it and it was us not making the subs that blew it, rather than we didn't have a squad of 17 that were good enough. 11 vs. 11, we were better than them, but I can't say the same when it was 17 vs 17.

@el3mel
Villarreal did great. They practiced their set pieces. They also made it hard for United to break through. Their frontline defended high up and pressed the defense and midfield lines.
The hard truth is that 11 vs. 11, we had better players, world beaters, not when it was 17 vs 17.
 
Rilz said:
I understand we need subs to have fresh legs, but genuinely who on the bench was gonna make any difference to our attacking unit ? Mata ? Dan James?

The real problem here is our lack of depth
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I hate arguments like this. Who bought Dan James? Who asked Ole to start all his “trusted” attackers? This isn’t a lack of depth situation. It was poor game management from Ole, simple. The blame solely lies on his head.
 
FahadiHossein said:
I am not referring to you specifically but the general vibe of the posts, especially the guy below you, who do not feel that Villarreal deserve it and it was us not making the subs that blew it, rather than we didn't have a squad of 17 that were good enough. 11 vs. 11, we were better than them, but I can't say the same when it was 17 vs 17.

@el3mel
Villarreal did great. They practiced their set pieces. They also made it hard for United to break through. Their frontline defended high up and pressed the defense and midfield lines.
The hard truth is that 11 vs. 11, we had better players, world beaters, not when it was 17 vs 17.
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Go on then name the 6 extra Villarreal players that swung the better players argument in their favor.
 
A simple thought, who is probably the fastest player in the club, if you answer that, then taking off a player who is badly performing and has been since Xmas,and put some speed against a team that has already played a full game is a rather simple equation.

Ole is far too cautious, and leans heavily on his so-called big name players at times that it gets in the way of sensible on field actions. Another lost trophy , players play for sure but managers can influence results at times, times that Ole seems reluctant to acknowledge.
 
I'm also concerned about the coaching staff. Surely someone like Carrick, Phelen et al. has had a word with Ole and just say' the lad looks gassed, he's got nothing left in his tank. He needs to come off'. You'd think right?
 
SAFMUTD said:
I think the problem is Ole is not a strategic coach, he's a man managment coach. He cant "afford" to upset any of the best players, he doesnt have the balls to take Rashford or Bruno out, he wont do a thing that compromises the atmosphere of the dressing room.

Greenwood was having a good game and Rashford had his worse game in a long long time, still he subs Greenwood.

He's the type of manager that puts the best players out, works on them being happy and hopes that enough to produce performances and results.
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Nail on the head
 
He should've brought Diallo and VdB on IMO. Villarreal were playing deep and it required players with craft and guile to open them up. Why he didn't make a sub until extra time is baffling, along with keeping Rashford on who was terrible.

Emery started a young teenager in his line up who was younger than Diallo.
 
Ralph1386 said:
They’re 7th in LaLiga! Our squad is better player-for-player. They were just better coached.
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Thats precisely why they played the way they did. Their goal was basically to snuff out whatever oxygen was in the room and then hope to score on a break or set play.

We have done that ourselves in the past with other teams too ...and beaten them on the counter.
 
The guy who made a career being a sub insist in running his first team to the ground. If we insist on Ole then I assure you that he's going to cut many players careers short.
 
It felt to me yesterday that Ole lost his balls. Rashford was crap all game and he decides to leave him on. It’s been proven time and again that De Gea is not a good penalty keeper and he lets him be puts instead of subbing Henderson in.
 
The subs thing was bizarre. Like I kept expecting him to suddenly bring on a group of players at once for a huge burst of fresh legs as they tired but nope, we actually just had no ideas and no options. I would have benched Greenwood or Rashford purely for the option of bringing them on later, pace against tired legs.
 
There is a reason why ole doesn't make subs and that is because he has to rely on individual brilliance to win games for him as he isn't a top manager, where as Emery was happy to make like 5 subs within normal time because he has his side well drilled to play as a cohesive unit.

Mata, Ahmad, matic, telles, fred and beek would very likely be starters for Villarreal.
 
He was waiting on a moment of brilliance from one of the attackers. Unfortunately he just made them run out of steam. Greenwood looked fecked when he was subbed.
 
I really worry that if he has more choice of players of him being even more indecisive than what we have seen already
 
My thoughts are if it were a league game he would have made subs earlier but he had a "plan" for penalties and wasn't going to do anything to jeopardise that. Wanted people to say what a masterstroke it was subbing a few players on a minute before the shoot-out.
 
Ixion said:
My thoughts are if it were a league game he would have made subs earlier but he had a "plan" for penalties and wasn't going to do anything to jeopardise that. Wanted people to say what a masterstroke it was subbing a few players on a minute before the shoot-out.
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He did have a plan for penalties, and to be fair the kickers did really well. It was the choice of keeper which was baffling.

Surely all research and data would have told him that Dave cannot save penalties. If he knew that and still went with De Gea... I cannot understand it.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
His legacy would be weird. The supersub who bottled it by never making a sub.
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Because we didn't have an Ole-type player to put on.

The recent links to Ings would make a lot of sense. Him, with Martial and possibly Sancho, would already be three options that we could have used yesterday to affect the game.
 
I don't get the argument that he didn't have any good options on the bench.. Is Mata not capable of putting in a better performance than a Rashford who had one of his worst performances ever in a United shirt? There's a reason most subs are in-game decisions and not predetermined 2 days before the game, and you don't keep the worst player on the pitch just because he's better than player X when he plays well.

It gets even worse because the team was screaming for a change after 90min of barely creating anything worth calling a chance, yet subbing off Marcus to bring on someone who can offer fresh legs, a different style of play and isn't in terrible form is seemingly not worth doing. Awful management, period.
 
Zlaatan said:
I don't get the argument that he didn't have any good options on the bench.. Is Mata not capable of putting in a better performance than a Rashford who had one of his worst performances ever in a United shirt? There's a reason most subs are in-game decisions and not predetermined 2 days before the game, and you don't keep the worst player on the pitch just because he's better than player X when he plays well.

It gets even worse because the team was screaming for a change after 90min of barely creating anything worth calling a chance, yet subbing off Marcus to bring on someone who can offer fresh legs, a different style of play and isn't in terrible form is seemingly not worth doing. Awful management, period.
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Yeah that argument is the biggest cop out of the lot and allows him to get away with it
 
Zlaatan said:
I don't get the argument that he didn't have any good options on the bench.. Is Mata not capable of putting in a better performance than a Rashford who had one of his worst performances ever in a United shirt? There's a reason most subs are in-game decisions and not predetermined 2 days before the game, and you don't keep the worst player on the pitch just because he's better than player X when he plays well.

It gets even worse because the team was screaming for a change after 90min of barely creating anything worth calling a chance, yet subbing off Marcus to bring on someone who can offer fresh legs, a different style of play and isn't in terrible form is seemingly not worth doing. Awful management, period.
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Villarreal made 5 subs before us so even their 16th option is better than any of the players on our bench apparently. It is bonkers, our subs wouldn't even make their bench.

People defending it should go back and watch Extra Time again, we were shocking and they were the only ones threatening because they were fresher and our players had nothing left and no fresh ideas.
 
FahadiHossein said:
I am not referring to you specifically but the general vibe of the posts, especially the guy below you, who do not feel that Villarreal deserve it and it was us not making the subs that blew it, rather than we didn't have a squad of 17 that were good enough. 11 vs. 11, we were better than them, but I can't say the same when it was 17 vs 17.

@el3mel
Villarreal did great. They practiced their set pieces. They also made it hard for United to break through. Their frontline defended high up and pressed the defense and midfield lines.
The hard truth is that 11 vs. 11, we had better players, world beaters, not when it was 17 vs 17.
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You think squad for squad they have a better team than us? I have no idea what to say to that.
 
I’m a bit disappointed by this aspect of his management.

I thought the fact that he was a player who would routinely come off the bench to score vital goals would have left him with an eye for making tactical decisions and changes from the subs bench that confuses or opposes the opposition leading to goals.

Not really seen that so far.
 
There's no sense in it

We're decent: Sub no one
We're awful: Sub everyone

At this point it seems like he just throws things at the wall to see what sticks. Absolutely awful
 
The changes never seem to be in response to what’s happened in the match. He won’t pull someone for having a bad game or to address something tactically. It’s as if the only changes he makes are those that are planned before the game.
 
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