The Make A Fecking Sub Ole Thread

People who are asking for 300 million pounds also need to know that if Glazers were to do that, you know they will take a loan against the Manchester United. It will be United that takes the loans and repay the interests, while the Glazers are still paid "consultant fees". This means the stadium will go into further disrepair, there will be more rats, leaky roofs etc.
Whether it is Telles, vdB or the returning Dalot, Perreira, the coaching team has to find a way - either they have to find a way to fit them into the team and improve the team, like what they did to Lindelof and Shaw who were frozen out by Mourinho, or move them on without losing them to choosing beggars.
 
The things is you had vdb, elenga, matic, williams and mata all coming off the back of having a good game from sunday, so surely it would have been worth giving one of them at least a try earlier in the match and they all bring something compared to those they may have likely been subbed for.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
When Liverpool were really not very good and we had a huge psychological edge over them and most teams .

We don’t anymore
Click to expand...

Right and we were playing Villarreal when they were 7th in la liga. And actually at anfield Liverpool had a far better record vs us we normally lost. Finally you have answered your own reply why do you think we had a psychological edge?
 
Doracle said:
So Ferguson took off an injured player and his replacement scored. Do you think he’d have replaced Rooney with John O’Shea if Rooney hadn’t been injured?
Click to expand...

Yeah why not? He brought in young or experimental players all the time. We beat arsenal with the da silvas in cm.
 
mancan92 said:
Right and we were playing Villarreal when they were 7th in la liga. And actually at anfield Liverpool had a far better record vs us we normally lost. Finally you have answered your own reply why do you think we had a psychological edge?
Click to expand...
SAF
 
mancan92 said:
Exactly he put that into the players cause he just had it. So it didn't matter who he had to put in he would just throw them in because they all have his mentality. Do you think Ole has that?
Click to expand...
Answer is obvious because he really is too liked by the players IMO. SAF made some decisions that hurt players( Ince RVN, Hughes, Park etc) rightly or wrongly but ultimately he’s stated that it’s never been personal, just for the good of the team. He’s never lost their respect.
 
BlackBen said:
You must be kidding right? It’s well documented and Ole himself has said he has the final say on approving and vetoing transfers . That’s a very weak rebuttal.

Amad came on against a strong Milan defense and scored within minutes. Donny could or couldn’t have made a difference. We’ll never know because Ole never gave the bench a chance to have an impact.

And can you please stop using the weak bench argument? Most of our bench will start for Villarreal.
Click to expand...

Sorry, forgot for a sec that James was signed under Ole - oops.

I'm not making the arguement our bench wouldn't start for Ole, im saying over the course of ridiculously long season we have barely rotated. First team played in the match and didn't have that extra push to go win the match. We've been poor for weeks and its a culmination of playing through injuries and not having options to rotate from the bench.

Absolutely no chance in hell, Donny was going to come on and pick a pass through that Villareal defense, give me a break. And the other option is an 18 year old unproven talent?
 
Rilz said:
It sure wasn't ole was it.

It was obvious we needed subs but at the same time, if our attack featuring bruno pogba greenwood and cavani werent breaking through the Villareal who on the bench apart from maybe Mata would stand a chance?
Click to expand...
Amad, and even adding more creativity for quality passing and brains in VdB, who's Ajax starter having played in Champions League, but Ole trusts no one.

It's not Mata, who was a tremendous player but has faded badly, nor Dan James who could add very little since we lacked creativity, not sheer speed.
 
Funny thing about not taking risks because "they would never work", when talking about a guy who along with Sherringham replaced York and Cole, who were clearly better, and changed history.

Impact subs are not about being better than the regular starters, is coming of the bench and offering something different like movement that the opponent were not used to, springing in the middle of the defense with a surprise header, trick plays, opening space that was not being used and use this gap to put your striker through.

Ole is incredibly guilty for the loss against Villarreal, having no plan B and has been like that for a while. People forget but there were quite a number of games that we were saved by individual brilliance while been outsmarted by lesser sides.

I love him as a legend of the club, as his man management has been great, but he is still quite short on tactics and it shows.
 
Cole and Yorke weren’t “clearly better”. They were first choice yes but Ole and Teddy were top players in their own right and offered something different. It’s that level of squad depth we need to return to.
 
I don't think anyone would dispute that they had the better of extra time and having made 5 subs with fresh legs to our 0 had to have played a part in that. That in purely on Ole and exposes his lack of a plan B, and his plan A resulted in 2 shots in targets in 2 hours football. There are massive question marks against him now and next season he will be under massive scrutiny.
 
The "we were saved by individual brilliance" narrative really does my head in. Especially about a manager who spent a season winning the most points from losing positions with his substitutions and tactical switches. But the one game he doesn't do it he is suddenly a fool only saved by magic from individual players......give us a break ...
 
To people saying its hindsight. It isn't, that's why there's a thread. It's a common theme all season long.

The subs he does make even have a good record of impacting games this season when he does actually use them.
 
Doracle said:
Cole and Yorke weren’t “clearly better”. They were first choice yes but Ole and Teddy were top players in their own right and offered something different. It’s that level of squad depth we need to return to.
Click to expand...
Is it even a debate that Cole and Yorke were better than Ole and Teddy?
It's not a dig at OGS, those two were simply amazing.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
The "we were saved by individual brilliance" narrative really does my head in. Especially about a manager who spent a season winning the most points from losing positions with his substitutions and tactical switches. But the one game he doesn't do it he is suddenly a fool only saved by magic from individual players......give us a break ...
Click to expand...
So Ole was doing lots of tactical changes and switches throughout the season? There are tons threads indicating exactly the opposite, it was a constant complaint that we were not a greatly coached team, the lack of alternatives for quite common theme of breaking the deadlock once people started figuring Bruno out or didn't attack us.
Ole has great strengths, being a master tactician isn't one of them.
 
Danillaco said:
Amad, and even adding more creativity for quality passing and brains in VdB, who's Ajax starter having played in Champions League, but Ole trusts no one.

It's not Mata, who was a tremendous player but has faded badly, nor Dan James who could add very little since we lacked creativity, not sheer speed.
Click to expand...

I don’t see what Donny has shown you in his year here that makes you believe he could do any of the things you mentioned in that game better than mata could have...
 
Rilz said:
I don’t see what Donny has shown you in his year here that makes you believe he could do any of the things you mentioned in that game better than mata could have...
Click to expand...
Just because Ole don't give a crap about him, it doesn't make him useless. He was an integral part of a very good Ajax team, national champion, EL finalist, CL semi, and is a full national with a tiny habit of scoring with the Orange once in a while.

He has talent and brains, as shown in the past, but somehow OGS sees over the hill Mata and Usain James ahead of him.
 
Rilz said:
I don’t see what Donny has shown you in his year here that makes you believe he could do any of the things you mentioned in that game better than mata could have...
Click to expand...

Tbf, DVB shouldn't be judged on his year here alone. He is better than he's shown so far.
 
Danillaco said:
Just because Ole don't give a crap about him, it doesn't make him useless. He was an integral part of a very good Ajax team, national champion, EL finalist, CL semi, and is a full national with a tiny habit of scoring with the Orange once in a while.

He has talent and brains, as shown in the past, but somehow OGS sees over the hill Mata and Usain James ahead of him.
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol:

I'm stealing this one for the future.
 
Danillaco said:
So Ole was doing lots of tactical changes and switches throughout the season? There are tons threads indicating exactly the opposite, it was a constant complaint that we were not a greatly coached team, the lack of alternatives for quite common theme of breaking the deadlock once people started figuring Bruno out or didn't attack us.
Ole has great strengths, being a master tactician isn't one of them.
Click to expand...

What you're describing is the sheep mentality where this narrative comes from. There are lots of threads so it must be true.

Ignore the fact that United has broken records for points recovered from behind and gone an entire season unbeaten away from home in the league.

But no, that doesn't matter because there are lots of threads saying Ole is shit. Did these threads also happen to mention "patterns of play"?
 
POF said:
What you're describing s the sheep mentality where this narrative comes from. There are lots of threads so it must be true.

Ignore the fact that United has broken records for points recovered from behind and gone an entire season unbeaten away from home in the league.

But no, that doesn't matter because there are lots of threads saying Ole is shit. Did these threads also happen to mention "patterns of play"?
Click to expand...
Nothing about sheep mentality, I'm merely pointing out a constant topic of United struggles, by the way, incredibly clear for anyone to see. There were lots of problem being signaled like our difficulty with set pieces. They don't go way simply because we won games

Ole is not without merits, but unbeaten away means very little if you have else to show for. You sound like Liverpool fans from years ago with the moral champion bs.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
The "we were saved by individual brilliance" narrative really does my head in. Especially about a manager who spent a season winning the most points from losing positions with his substitutions and tactical switches. But the one game he doesn't do it he is suddenly a fool only saved by magic from individual players......give us a break ...
Click to expand...

But those games didn't change in a tactical way. Only a couple times was it subs. Mostly just more attacking mentality
 
Ole needs to get better at using his subs next season if we are to stand any chance of progressing. I see people say the issue is the quality on the bench but the fact that Ole doesn't use his subs is damaging for various reasons

  • Ole seems to leave underperforming players on hoping for a moment of individual brilliance that may never arrive (Rashford vs Villarreal as an example)
  • The first team players get overplayed such as Maguire, Rashford and Bruno.We have seen the likes of Lindelof and Rashford playing though injuries this season.
  • It's demoralizing for the bench. The likes of Donny and Telles coming to United and barely getting minutes is terrible. It's going to knock their confidence for when we need them

This is something Ole really needs to fix
 
Good points @Red Rash and its basically where I stand too.

He's a manager that doesn't really develop players - he had one of the most expensive teenagers in the Premier League from January (Amad) and he could have integrated him sooner, yes he may not have been ready, but that's why you give him 10 minutes here and there so when a final comes around you have a potentia game changer, If you wait and don't play someone until they're ready then they never will be.

Then you have VdB, who hasn't had a sniff all season, of course he isn't going to be up to scratch if you never play him, then expect him to perform miracles for 30 minutes every 5 games.

He's said himself that he takes a stand off approach to managing, which is perfectly fine, SAF used to do this (though he did only get to that point when he got older) but SAF knew that he had to get the right coaches in to succeed - Ole seems to be popular with the starters, which is great, but he needs to be more ruthless with his coaches. Who is our coach that's in charge of breaking down teams that sit deep? That coach should definitely be sacked, same as our set piece coach, though saying that, do we even have one?

Ole needs to realise the buck stops with the manager, he says winning trophies doesn't measure improvement - but bombing out ofsemi finals, and losing a final against a team with vastly inferior resources sure tells a story of its own - get better coaches in to improve the players he has to get himself that bench he wants.

How many more years are supporters okay with not winning a trophy? We take the piss out of City spending a fortune to win their silverware, but we spend a fortune and we're empty handed.
 
Fiasco said:
Southgate taking a leaf out of Ole’s book?
Click to expand...
Far surpasses the worst of Ole's hesitations, if you ask me. For one, Ole would wish he had Grealish and Sancho on the bench. Also, Ole does usually make the subs but at 75th minute, where Southgate waited until extra time for Grealish and still no Sancho. fecking insane
 
Great, to think I have had to endure southgate this summer and now back to club level with the same punishment of watching united shackled by ole but hey you can't talk bad about either of them because they are thoroughly nice chaps that talk a good game.
 
NewGlory said:
Far surpasses the worst of Ole's hesitations, if you ask me. For one, Ole would wish he had Grealish and Sancho on the bench. Also, Ole does usually make the subs but at 75th minute, where Southgate waited until extra time for Grealish and still no Sancho. fecking insane
Click to expand...
Leaving de Gea on for a penalty shootout is arguably worse than anything Southgate did today.

I genuinely would have taken de Gea off for another outfield player and just had an empty net for all of Villarreal's kicks. That's how bad de Gea is at penalties.
 
Eternitiy said:
Leaving de Gea on for a penalty shootout is arguably worse than anything Southgate did today.

I genuinely would have taken de Gea off for another outfield player and just had an empty net for all of Villarreal's kicks. That's how bad de Gea is at penalties.
Click to expand...
If you would then then you’re an idiot.
 
Lee565 said:
Great, to think I have had to endure southgate this summer and now back to club level with the same punishment of watching united shackled by ole but hey you can't talk bad about either of them because they are thoroughly nice chaps that talk a good game.
Click to expand...

Can I hire you to suck the energy out of a flight hangar I plan on restoring?
 
Lee565 said:
Great, to think I have had to endure southgate this summer and now back to club level with the same punishment of watching united shackled by ole but hey you can't talk bad about either of them because they are thoroughly nice chaps that talk a good game.
Click to expand...
I think there are a lot of similarities between Southgate and Ole, both are great man managers, both are superb at pre-game preparation, both are excellent at handling the media, both are great at giving opportunities to young players.
However, both struggle with in-game tactical changes, both take very much take a safety-first approach to games, both struggle to set up teams that can't break teams down and both seem to produce teams that seem to lack quick passing and movement in the final 3rd or the pitch.
 
Yesterday was great result but I still believe Ole could do better with his subs.

At the point when Utd were winning 5-0, Ole made the following subs:

Matic for McTominay. Don’t understand this at all. Surely this is a defensive change when we weren’t under any threat.Ole knows what Matic is capable of, so he doesn’t really need game time.

James for Sancho. No argument here, makes sense only wished it’d happened earlier before Pogba was taken off.

Pogba for Martial. This is the change that disturbed me the most.We had no creativity or threat after this point. If Ole wanted to give Martial some game time, take off Greenwood or even Bruno (which may have been appropriate after his hat trick). If he wanted to give Pogba a rest and acknowledge his performance then change him for Van De Beek, who really would benefit from game time.

With the team playing so well, it was such a shame the substitutions involved changing the system of the team and ripping the creative heart out of midfield. If Ole had made like for like changes it would benefit all the players, getting used to a system and style of play rather than just playing with certain players. It would have been beneficial for Sancho to get game experience playing with a creative midfielder such as Pogba or VDB rather than relying on the less technical players like Fred and Matic for passes and assists.

Early days I know and a great result, but Ole has form here in making substitutions that put the team on the back foot because he ranks players by their seniority rather than their positions and skill set.
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
At the point when Utd were winning 5-0
Click to expand...
Just nitpicking a bit, but we were 1-1 before we scored the next 4 goals. It wasn't 5-0 at any point.

Subtstitutions when you're 3+ goals up on the opposition don't matter and I don't think many people will care about them. That's just for match fitness reasons and appearance count, giving people a run-out, etc.
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
Yesterday was great result but I still believe Ole could do better with his subs.

At the point when Utd were winning 5-0, Ole made the following subs:

Matic for McTominay. Don’t understand this at all. Surely this is a defensive change when we weren’t under any threat.Ole knows what Matic is capable of, so he doesn’t really need game time.

James for Sancho. No argument here, makes sense only wished it’d happened earlier before Pogba was taken off.

Pogba for Martial. This is the change that disturbed me the most.We had no creativity or threat after this point. If Ole wanted to give Martial some game time, take off Greenwood or even Bruno (which may have been appropriate after his hat trick). If he wanted to give Pogba a rest and acknowledge his performance then change him for Van De Beek, who really would benefit from game time.

With the team playing so well, it was such a shame the substitutions involved changing the system of the team and ripping the creative heart out of midfield. If Ole had made like for like changes it would benefit all the players, getting used to a system and style of play rather than just playing with certain players. It would have been beneficial for Sancho to get game experience playing with a creative midfielder such as Pogba or VDB rather than relying on the less technical players like Fred and Matic for passes and assists.

Early days I know and a great result, but Ole has form here in making substitutions that put the team on the back foot because he ranks players by their seniority rather than their positions and skill set.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

I think the subs were perfectly fine for a match where we were in complete control. Personally, I'm not sure how you can't criticize him for not bringing on a player you think is best. Surely he would know which players would benefit more from a rest and which players need the game time.

We don't know how long it will take for Cavani to get up and running, and since Martial hasn't had enough game time, that was a no brainer for him to get minutes. Resting our creative player in Pogba is exactly what we need to do, and since Pogba came late to pre-season, only starting in 1 game and off the bench another, it makes sense to not push him to hard. I agree that VDB needs more game time, let see what happens against Southampton.

To say that when Pogba leaves we ripped the creative out of midfield. Surely Sancho coming on is a creative player, and Bruno was still there. And more importantly, it helps us not depend on just 1 player to step up to be creative.

Anyway, end of the day, I think this is nitpicking for the sake of it, although you entitled to your opinion, no qualms about that, but I personally was happy with the subs. The timing of them, even more so.
 
i was watching the match with a mate and we were both screaming for ole to bring mbappe on. a flash of bald head later and we were so pleased to have been listened to. when the camera zoomed in on martial we took it in turns to throw the tv remote at the screen whilst vomiting violently.

i think there’s games to be annoyed about when a change isn’t coming, the first game of the season at 5-1 probably isn’t one of them. with a fairly short pre-season it was nice to have an easier last 30 minutes. should set us up well for the next one.
 
rimaldo said:
i was watching the match with a mate and we were both screaming for ole to bring mbappe on. a flash of bald head later and we were so pleased to have been listened to. when the camera zoomed in on martial we took it in turns to throw the tv remote at the screen whilst vomiting violently.

i think there’s games to be annoyed about when a change isn’t coming, the first game of the season at 5-1 probably isn’t one of them. with a fairly short pre-season it was nice to have an easier last 30 minutes. should set us up well for the next one.
Click to expand...
Your story could be true except for the part that you watched it with a friend...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.