Television The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

Donaldo said:
The sword waving was a bit much, but I never felt that it went too OTT otherwise.

It makes perfect sense for Galadriel to be an accomplished warrior-queen. Nothing particularly hilarious about it.
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Meh, her character in the show so far is flat. She had a thing for magic, philosophy, politics and was mentored by Maia Melian of the divine race.

Her psychological side gave her edge over enemies, not necessarily ability to smash everyone with a long stick.
 
Where is all this random lore coming from? I've read the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, the Children of Huren and the Silmarillion and i'm oblivious to all of it. Granted it was mostly 30 years ago and i might have forgotten a single line in the Silmarillion. Is it from a random note left on a scrap of paper on Tolkiens desk?
Are people really attached to the idea of Gandalf reportedly showing up in the 3rd age and coming from the west cause an Encyclopedia printed a couple of decades after Tolkiens death said so or whatever other insignificant bit of lore that this show is ruining?
Its sounds silly as feck.
 
When the internet first started to become huge it was a gift for fans and fandoms of nerd/genre stuff, finally a place where you could geek out to your hearts content with people who had similar interests and shared enthusiasm for niche stuff. It was fun, yeah you had the unhealthy toxic types even then but it wasn't the participation sport it is now. We fecked it. Talked to and listened to loads of discussions in real life since Friday about this show and only 1 person mentioned forced diversity/agendas, everyone else was talking about the quality of the show, things they liked, things that needed to be improved, things that were bad(the writing and dialogue came up repeatedly)

I hate that so much of the featured discussion on the bigger sites has become so controversy driven. On here is actually some of the most reasonable online discussion I have seen, imagine that, people actually discussing the show on its merits.
 
Bobski said:
When the internet first started to become huge it was a gift for fans and fandoms of nerd/genre stuff, finally a place where you could geek out to your hearts content with people who had similar interests and shared enthusiasm for niche stuff. It was fun, yeah you had the unhealthy toxic types even then but it wasn't the participation sport it is now. We fecked it. Talked to and listened to loads of discussions in real life since Friday about this show and only 1 person mentioned forced diversity/agendas, everyone else was talking about the quality of the show, things they liked, things that needed to be improved, things that were bad(the writing and dialogue came up repeatedly)

I hate that so much of the featured discussion on the bigger sites has become so controversy driven. On here is actually some of the most reasonable online discussion I have seen, imagine that, people actually discussing the show on its merits.
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I basically treat the internet as a whole as a seperate reality detached from normal, relevant existence. Its the only context it makes sense in.
 
caid said:
Where is all this random lore coming from? I've read the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, the Children of Huren and the Silmarillion and i'm oblivious to all of it. Granted it was mostly 30 years ago and i might have forgotten a single line in the Silmarillion. Is it from a random note left on a scrap of paper on Tolkiens desk?
Are people really attached to the idea of Gandalf reportedly showing up in the 3rd age and coming from the west cause an Encyclopedia printed a couple of decades after Tolkiens death said so or whatever other insignificant bit of lore that this show is ruining?
Its sounds silly as feck.
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On here I haven’t actually seen many people complaining about how things are ruining the ‘lore’ but actually discussing the show as a show. There are definitely certain things I’ve been disappointed by (some casting, dialogue, representation of certain characters) which go against my vision of how a Tolkien world should be but also some things I’ve been pleasantly surprised by (harfoots/stranger, Arondir, production).

It will never please everyone, I just hope it’s good enough that I can rewatch it again in the future and enjoy it as I have done LOTR.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
On here I haven’t actually seen many people complaining about how things are ruining the ‘lore’ but actually discussing the show as a show. There are definitely certain things I’ve been disappointed by (some casting, dialogue, representation of certain characters) which go against my vision of how a Tolkien world should be but also some things I’ve been pleasantly surprised by (harfoots/stranger, Arondir, production).

It will never please everyone, I just hope it’s good enough that I can rewatch it again in the future and enjoy it as I have done LOTR.
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I'm probably remembering comments from reddit or twitter or something and giving posters here grief for them. I guess they tend to just fade into one amorphous blob.
 
I think it's grand so far. Nice to see the locations. Acting is good so far. A few plotlines are good.

Most of the moaners seem to be people that were moaning before the show was released, which robs them of much credibility.
 
Red Shorts said:
very much so, at least a main part of the story. That's why Celembribor is there asking to build a feck off big forge.
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Ahh. Also the underdeveloped Hobbits in rags with bizarre Irish accents just doesn't seem right. I quite liked them West Country accents.
 
Possibly a dumb question but are the Shadow of War video games considered cannon? I only know Celebrimbor from there.
 
Spoony said:
Ahh. Also the underdeveloped Hobbits in rags with bizarre Irish accents just doesn't seem right. I quite liked them West Country accents.
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I couldnt work out if they were supposed to be a mixture of Irish and West Country, or all Irish. Very inconsistent there.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Possibly a dumb question but are the Shadow of War video games considered cannon? I only know Celebrimbor from there.
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What does cannon mean? I consider cannon only what Tolkien wrote, meaning not even the movies would be cannon. I'm pretty sure the Tolkien estate thinks similarly. The issue with games is they miss the spirit of LOTR and usually add a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually played shadow of war games as I wasn't impressed with whatever they were trying to do.
 
Jotun said:
What does cannon mean? I consider cannon only what Tolkien wrote, meaning not even the movies would be cannon. I'm pretty sure the Tolkien estate thinks similarly. The issue with games is they miss the spirit of LOTR and usually add a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually played shadow of war games as I wasn't impressed with whatever they were trying to do.
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Yeh fair point on that definition. I guess I meant in the same way as the show is trying to be as true to the lore as possible, are the games the same? I’m assuming they probably aren’t as they likely introduce characters that aren’t referenced in the books anyway. I thought the stories in those games were okay but pretty uninspiring.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Yeh fair point on that definition. I guess I meant in the same way as the show is trying to be as true to the lore as possible, are the games the same? I’m assuming they probably aren’t as they likely introduce characters that aren’t referenced in the books anyway. I thought the stories in those games were okay but pretty uninspiring.
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No, in short. They used characters from the stories but it's as far as it goes. For example, Sauron never took physical form again after Isildur gave him the chop, whilst the game is set about 60 years before LOTR. Even the protagonist Talion is not part of any book.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Have you seen the second episode? That was the most scared I’ve ever been of an orc.
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Yep best depiction of an orc by miles. Galadriel kind of killed that snow troll too easily though but I guess they wanted to highlight her strength.
 
caid said:
I'm probably remembering comments from reddit or twitter or something and giving posters here grief for them. I guess they tend to just fade into one amorphous blob.
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Reddit is awful, lots of experts all trying to out expert each other and complaining about everything.

It’s fine to praise or criticise things though, it just depends how anal you want to be about a fantasy series, I’ve seen people complaining about elves having short hair for example which is, if we’re being honest, irrelevant but I agree with the criticism that the dialogue has been generally poor.
 
So I left a review on Amazon, but it's not showing up yet.

You might not want to read it as it touches on subjects some find triggering.

Fair warning.

Okay, we're two episodes in. Here's my review.

Rings of Power is a beautiful, breathtaking fun-filled adventure for all the family. Stunning doesn't even begin to describe the world presented to us. It's amazing, gorgeous, mindblowing, pretty, cute and... urgh... Who am I kidding? Let's face facts; this show is boring as hell. It's a typically dull and mundane affair throughout, akin to a feature-length CGI cutscene from your latest AAA videogame, and criminally lacking the fundamental "pull factor" required of any good TV show. In short: it's diabolical.

Firstly: the elves. Did the show writers intend for the elven men to look and act like feminized cowards or was it merely an accident? I'm going with the former on this. Take Galadriel, for example, she is anything but feminine in both appearance and actions. It appears you've taken stereotypical character traits generally owing to men and, purely in the name of political agenda, given them to women. Okay, that's weird, but why would you do that? Glad you ask, I'm here to tell you. Because of the female empowerment movement and everything it represents, that's why. Because of American politicians' continuous use of the distract and divide tactic to further their agenda, that's also why.

Welcome to Hollywood, guys and girls. Please enjoy your stay. But be sure to leave your brain at the doorstep lest your IQ becomes permanently lowered before you leave. We, the British public, are sick to death of you guys forcing American politics down our throats. Shove it up your...

...But I digress.

The hobbits are equally crap and frankly insulting depending on your perspective. They've been depicted as a culturally backwards sect of unclean, brain-dead morons with wildly diverse ethnic features, accents, and... Einstein hair. Most of them are a combination of Northern Irish and west-Cornish because, well, reasons, but also because Roman-Irish gipsies. Right? Having a go at Irish history and its effects on America today much showrunners? Maybe, maybe not. I'm half-Irish, so I might be acting paranoid. But if your game is to insult us then you can shove it up your...

...But I digress. Again.

The show has one redeeming quality; the dwarves. Yeah, I liked them. The King and Queen had a human connection my wife and I could relate to, one that is distinctly lacking in all of your other characters. Sorry, I forget their names because you didn't give them enough screentime, choosing instead to focus on the elves and the highly dislikeable and ludicrously powerful Galadriel. The queen had an especially endearing smile and the architecture in the dwarven kingdom gave me feels from the original LOTR. Impressive.

2 stars.
 
Random Task said:
Firstly: the elves. Did the show writers intend for the elven men to look and act like feminized cowards or was it merely an accident? I'm going with the former on this. Take Galadriel, for example, she is anything but feminine in both appearance and actions. It appears you've taken stereotypical character traits generally owing to men and, purely in the name of political agenda, given them to women. Okay, that's weird, but why would you do that? Glad you ask, I'm here to tell you. Because of the female empowerment movement and everything it represents, that's why. Because of American politicians' continuous use of the distract and divide tactic to further their agenda, that's also why.
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I don't know you from Adam but this bit made me:D
 
Random Task said:
So I left a review on Amazon, but it's not showing up yet.

You might not want to read it as it touches on subjects some find triggering.

Fair warning.

Okay, we're two episodes in. Here's my review.

Rings of Power is a beautiful, breathtaking fun-filled adventure for all the family. Stunning doesn't even begin to describe the world presented to us. It's amazing, gorgeous, mindblowing, pretty, cute and... urgh... Who am I kidding? Let's face facts; this show is boring as hell. It's a typically dull and mundane affair throughout, akin to a feature-length CGI cutscene from your latest AAA videogame, and criminally lacking the fundamental "pull factor" required of any good TV show. In short: it's diabolical.

Firstly: the elves. Did the show writers intend for the elven men to look and act like feminized cowards or was it merely an accident? I'm going with the former on this. Take Galadriel, for example, she is anything but feminine in both appearance and actions. It appears you've taken stereotypical character traits generally owing to men and, purely in the name of political agenda, given them to women. Okay, that's weird, but why would you do that? Glad you ask, I'm here to tell you. Because of the female empowerment movement and everything it represents, that's why. Because of American politicians' continuous use of the distract and divide tactic to further their agenda, that's also why.

Welcome to Hollywood, guys and girls. Please enjoy your stay. But be sure to leave your brain at the doorstep lest your IQ becomes permanently lowered before you leave. We, the British public, are sick to death of you guys forcing American politics down our throats. Shove it up your...

...But I digress.

The hobbits are equally crap and frankly insulting depending on your perspective. They've been depicted as a culturally backwards sect of unclean, brain-dead morons with wildly diverse ethnic features, accents, and... Einstein hair. Most of them are a combination of Northern Irish and west-Cornish because, well, reasons, but also because Roman-Irish gipsies. Right? Having a go at Irish history and its effects on America today much showrunners? Maybe, maybe not. I'm half-Irish, so I might be acting paranoid. But if your game is to insult us then you can shove it up your...

...But I digress. Again.

The show has one redeeming quality; the dwarves. Yeah, I liked them. The King and Queen had a human connection my wife and I could relate to, one that is distinctly lacking in all of your other characters. Sorry, I forget their names because you didn't give them enough screentime, choosing instead to focus on the elves and the highly dislikeable and ludicrously powerful Galadriel. The queen had an especially endearing smile and the architecture in the dwarven kingdom gave me feels from the original LOTR. Impressive.

2 stars.
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Re the elves. Depicting lotr elves as girly boys is hardly new is it? Legolas isn't exactly the poster boy for red blooded, chest thumping, beer chugging masculinity (I assume these are traits linked to masculinity by the unlettered masses). They're wise, pensive and speak in poems. I'm also not sure how Galadriel isn't feminine. Though I admit that there have been no cooking and cleaning scenes thus far.
 
Red Shorts said:
No, in short. They used characters from the stories but it's as far as it goes. For example, Sauron never took physical form again after Isildur gave him the chop, whilst the game is set about 60 years before LOTR. Even the protagonist Talion is not part of any book.
Click to expand...

Sauron is referenced as having a physical form after isildur gave him the chop. It was a movie decision to make him a great eye. Gollum said there was only 4 fingers on the dark lords black hand.
 
Raees said:
Yep best depiction of an orc by miles. Galadriel kind of killed that snow troll too easily though but I guess they wanted to highlight her strength.
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Hated that scene a) how she kept stabbing from behind just for a 'cool' shot and also just how easy it was regardless. Did you seen Aragorn take down a troll that easily?!
 
KirkDuyt said:
Re the elves. Depicting lotr elves as girly boys is hardly new is it? Legolas isn't exactly the poster boy for red blooded, chest thumping, beer chugging masculinity (I assume these are traits linked to masculinity by the unlettered masses). They're wise, pensive and speak in poems. I'm also not sure how Galadriel isn't feminine. Though I admit that there have been no cooking and cleaning scenes thus far.
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Re the elves; It's a reference to the scene where Galadriel takes down the troll single-handedly with a few waves of her sword, while her political props pretending to be soldiers run and hide like cowards. It took the combined efforts of the entire fellowship working together to take down a troll in the original LOTR. I don't know how that scene played out in the books as I haven't read them, but I felt the whole scene was designed to empower her at the expense of the men around her. She also has this unrelatable, sour demeanour about her throughout the show. Or maybe I'm just getting old (I'm 36 now) and out of touch with reality. Meh.

webbthepostie said:
I don't know you from Adam but this bit made me:D
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It's mostly tongue in cheek but with a hint of truth thrown in :p
 
caid said:
Where is all this random lore coming from? I've read the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, the Children of Huren and the Silmarillion and i'm oblivious to all of it. Granted it was mostly 30 years ago and i might have forgotten a single line in the Silmarillion. Is it from a random note left on a scrap of paper on Tolkiens desk?
Are people really attached to the idea of Gandalf reportedly showing up in the 3rd age and coming from the west cause an Encyclopedia printed a couple of decades after Tolkiens death said so or whatever other insignificant bit of lore that this show is ruining?
Its sounds silly as feck.
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It may sound silly to you but Tolkien was obsessed with the integrity and depth of his world building. To many it is what makes his writing so remarkable. Which is why the current show works fine as a dungeons and dragons romp that pays a lot of money to use his characters' names. But it obviously is not Tolkien's world except at the most superficial level. For example, he wrote extensively about Galadriel's family and motivation, which has been ignored in favour of a completely different character.

Most importantly Tolkien was heavily invested in lineage, and his use of race and ethnicity is by modern standards out and out racist (for example his gold loving blond elf chasing Dwarves):

"I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue".

The only Elf he ever referred to as maybe having dark skin (swart) was a baddy called Maeglin:

"Less fair was he than most of this goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won small love, and whispers there were that he had Orc’s blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true "

Basically Tolkien consistently colour coded black as evil and fair and blond as pure. Which isn't surprising given that it was based on North European mythology.

If it is anything, Tolkien is naked hostility to modernity and a love letter to a betrayed English medieval past idealised throught the lens of 1930s values. And like it or not that is also a large part of why it is so popular. By making something that appeals to modern sensibilities, Amazon can't ever hope to be true to his vision. Nor would they try. It's fine to like this show but it's not remotely in the spirit of Tolkien. Whereas this from Peter Jackson is....

 
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Random Task said:
Re the elves; It's a reference to the scene where Galadriel takes down the troll single-handedly with a few waves of her sword, while her political props pretending to be soldiers run and hide like cowards. It took the combined efforts of the entire fellowship working together to take down a troll in the original LOTR. I don't know how that scene played out in the books as I haven't read them, but I felt the whole scene was designed to empower her at the expense of the men around her. She also has this unrelatable, sour demeanour about her throughout the show. Or maybe I'm just getting old (I'm 36 now) and out of touch with reality. Meh.



It's mostly tongue in cheek but with a hint of truth thrown in :p
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I am even older :lol:

I dunno it just seemed to try (bit on the nose for my taste) and establish her as very powerful. Not necessarily as more powerful than all men. I just dont think being powerful or being sour is inherently exclusive to men. I for one welcome our all powerful beautiful female overlords.

And as I stated before,I think Elves are supposed to be a bit girly. Though someone more knowledgable in Tolkien things should confirm this since I know feck all about it. I only saw the movies and cannot recite all the main characters family trees. Hell I cant even speak elvish. Im a casual.
 
Gehrman said:
Sauron is referenced as having a physical form after isildur gave him the chop. It was a movie decision to make him a great eye. Gollum said there was only 4 fingers on the dark lords black hand.
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I stand corrected. I originally Misread it as "original form" rather than "physical form".
 
KirkDuyt said:
And as I stated before,I think Elves are supposed to be a bit girly. Though someone more knowledgable in Tolkien things should confirm this since I know feck all about it. I only saw the movies and cannot recite all the main characters family trees. Hell I cant even speak elvish. Im a casual.
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Elves are generally described as 'fair' which seems to mean to Tolkien both very pale skinned and beautiful (like his wife who he constantly compared to Luthien, his Elf alpha female). He doesn't say much about their masculinity, which he seems to reserve for the dirtier folk.
 
Gehrman said:
Sauron is referenced as having a physical form after isildur gave him the chop. It was a movie decision to make him a great eye. Gollum said there was only 4 fingers on the dark lords black hand.
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They almost put him in it. You can watch Aragorn fight Sauron - PJ replaced Sauron with a troll in the released film but it’s on YouTube as a deleted scene. I’m happy they didn’t go with it though.
 
@Random Task

Two issues with your argument:

1) Tolkien described Galadriel as literally the mightiest elf remaining in middle earth after Gil-Galad's death. So she should be more powerful than nearly all the men around her, for reasons that have nothing to do with modern sensibilities and everything to do with her just being more powerful than them.

And in a context where we saw a fairly run of the mill character like Legolas perform ridiculous super-human feats in the films including taking down one of those giant elephant things single-handedly, I'm not sure how you expect them to accurately represent her being far more powerful than someone like him on screen without her ultimately doing some pretty remarkable things herself.

2) You say of Galadriel:

She is anything but feminine in both appearance and actions. It appears you've taken stereotypical character traits generally owing to men and, purely in the name of political agenda, given them to women. Okay, that's weird, but why would you do that?
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But the trope of women with stereotypically male character traits has been a staple of fiction for literally thousands of years. Something like the Ballad of Mulan dates back to pre 500 CE, for example. And more to the point, it's also true of actual women in real life. The notion that the idea of women having stereotypically male character traits should seem weird to us or could only be a consequence of political agenda is itself very weird.
 
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sullydnl said:
1) Tolkien described Galadriel as literally the mightiest elf remaining in middle earth after Gil-Galad's death. So she should be more powerful than nearly all the men around her, for reasons that have nothing to do with modern sensibilities and everything to do with her just being more powerful than them.

And in a context where we saw a fairly run of the mill character like Legolas perform ridiculous super-human feats in the films including taking down one of those giant elephant things single-handedly, I'm not sure how you expect them to accurately represent her being far, far, far more powerful than someone like him on screen without her ultimately doing some pretty remarkable things herself.
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There's no doubt that Tolkien's Galadriel could best a troll in her sleep. It's questionable that she would do it with a sword. But what makes it laughable is that she shouldn't be there at all - she should be off with her husband being a Queen, not serving King Gil-Galad or girl bossing a bunch of soldiers. This is the timeline of Tolkien's Galadriel...

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Timeline_of_Galadriel#Second_Age
 
Gehrman said:
Sauron is referenced as having a physical form after isildur gave him the chop. It was a movie decision to make him a great eye. Gollum said there was only 4 fingers on the dark lords black hand.
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Sauron took the form of a great eye in the spiritual realm, so really he was both in the book, which is how Jackson portrayed him in the Hobbit movies.
 
Random Task said:
So I left a review on Amazon, but it's not showing up yet.

You might not want to read it as it touches on subjects some find triggering.

Fair warning.

Okay, we're two episodes in. Here's my review.

Rings of Power is a beautiful, breathtaking fun-filled adventure for all the family. Stunning doesn't even begin to describe the world presented to us. It's amazing, gorgeous, mindblowing, pretty, cute and... urgh... Who am I kidding? Let's face facts; this show is boring as hell. It's a typically dull and mundane affair throughout, akin to a feature-length CGI cutscene from your latest AAA videogame, and criminally lacking the fundamental "pull factor" required of any good TV show. In short: it's diabolical.

Firstly: the elves. Did the show writers intend for the elven men to look and act like feminized cowards or was it merely an accident? I'm going with the former on this. Take Galadriel, for example, she is anything but feminine in both appearance and actions. It appears you've taken stereotypical character traits generally owing to men and, purely in the name of political agenda, given them to women. Okay, that's weird, but why would you do that? Glad you ask, I'm here to tell you. Because of the female empowerment movement and everything it represents, that's why. Because of American politicians' continuous use of the distract and divide tactic to further their agenda, that's also why.

Welcome to Hollywood, guys and girls. Please enjoy your stay. But be sure to leave your brain at the doorstep lest your IQ becomes permanently lowered before you leave. We, the British public, are sick to death of you guys forcing American politics down our throats. Shove it up your...

...But I digress.

The hobbits are equally crap and frankly insulting depending on your perspective. They've been depicted as a culturally backwards sect of unclean, brain-dead morons with wildly diverse ethnic features, accents, and... Einstein hair. Most of them are a combination of Northern Irish and west-Cornish because, well, reasons, but also because Roman-Irish gipsies. Right? Having a go at Irish history and its effects on America today much showrunners? Maybe, maybe not. I'm half-Irish, so I might be acting paranoid. But if your game is to insult us then you can shove it up your...

...But I digress. Again.

The show has one redeeming quality; the dwarves. Yeah, I liked them. The King and Queen had a human connection my wife and I could relate to, one that is distinctly lacking in all of your other characters. Sorry, I forget their names because you didn't give them enough screentime, choosing instead to focus on the elves and the highly dislikeable and ludicrously powerful Galadriel. The queen had an especially endearing smile and the architecture in the dwarven kingdom gave me feels from the original LOTR. Impressive.

2 stars.
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You write like someone who thinks they're good at writing.
 
glazed said:
There's no doubt that Tolkien's Galadriel could best a troll in her sleep. It's questionable that she would do it with a sword. But what makes it laughable is that she shouldn't be there at all - she should be off with her husband being a Queen, not serving King Gil-Galad or girl bossing a bunch of soldiers. This is the timeline of Tolkien's Galadriel...

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Timeline_of_Galadriel#Second_Age
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Sure. But then as someone said earlier, this show clearly isn't for the purists and fighter-Galadriel makes for a less passive character. There's not much point making comparisons really.

Unless it suits an argument I want to make, obviously.
 
Mockney said:
We should really start bullying nerds again as a society
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Being a Tolkien nerd is all about obsessing about the minor details of a fictional narrative that has actually turned into an ill concealed money making machine, because it gives you the illusion of tribe, community and identity when you participate. Not a mindset that a Manchester United fan could ever relate to ... :)
 
sullydnl said:
Sure. But then as someone said earlier, this show clearly isn't for the purists and fighter-Galadriel makes for a less passive character. There's not much point making comparisons really.
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Well this character clearly isn't Tolkien's Galadriel so she can do whatever the writers wants. But if they had never heard of Lord of the Rings, would anyone be giving this show the time of day? I doubt it.
 
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