The F1 Thread 2012 Season

Read this on BBC website.

Hamilton has pretty much signalled the end of his competetive F1 career for at at least the next 3 years. Even with the 2014 changes, I can't see Mercedes beating the other teams. Ferrari = works team. Red Bull = Renault (Infiniti) works team. Even if the Mercedes is itself a works team, I can't see them winning. Yes the Mercedes engine is good, it hasn't come close to the 2010 & 2011 titles, and realistically, the 2012 title too.

Hamilton is a good driver, but I daresay Perez has the potential to be even better. I may sound bitter but Hamilton has NEVER PAID HIS DUES. Perez has, and will reap the benfit of this. Look back at the others: Alonso - Minardi. Vettel - Toro Rosso. Button - Williams/ Benneton. Massa - Sauber. Webber - Minardi/ Williams. Rosberg - Williams. Basically, Hamilton was cherrypicked straight away and I personally belive he has an ego because of this - yes Vettel has an ego but he has earned it. People seem to forget that Hamilton was gifted his 2008 World Championship and has NEVER SINCE been close to winning a second. Even with Mercedes, he won't.

2012 WDC - S. Vettel
2013 WDC - F. Alonso
2014 WDC - S. Perez
2015 WDC - F. Alonso
2016 WDC - S. Vettel (in a Ferrari)

It is rubbish, WTF is this Perez has paid his dues but Hamilton has not
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Ross Brawn will get the best out of Hamilton, the thing is with McLaren is they are quite a methodical team and they don't really like to rely on instinct. They invest heavily in simulation and Hamilton has always seemed to me to be an 'arm around the shoulder' type of sportsman, he needs that human touch which McLaren with all there gizmo's and lovely technology centre seem to lack. Also as for Hamilton's career, he had a stellar rookie year where he beat Alonso, 2nd year he won the WDC, 3rd McLaren built a dog until mid-season and from there Hamilton was very fast, he had a dodgy spell from the end of 2010 throughout 2011 and this year he's been great. If winning 20 races, having 24 Poles and 48 podiums in 104 races is not that good then there's an awful lot of drivers who wished they weren't that good.
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If anything has been shown at Mercedes, it's that Ross Brawn is not a good team leader 'probably the reason Ferrari wouldn't give him the job'. The mistakes that Mercedes pitwall have made over the last two years are just as bad as McLaren if not worse and their development team are run by a bunch of clowns. Every year even in 2009, the team has progressively gone backwards and that isn't going to change.


Putting it even simpler. Michael Schumacher is the ultimate professional with regards to his teams and there has clearly been a relationship breakdown with him....


Also Sabine Kehm 'Schumachers manager' has been seen in Maranello this weekend.. Tell you what, Alonso/Schumacher would be a hell of a pairing for next season. I don't think Michael is as interested in winning another title as just getting a win in his comeback. I'm sure he'd go out of his way to help Alonso to a WDC
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Ross Brawn will get the best out of Hamilton, the thing is with McLaren is they are quite a methodical team and they don't really like to rely on instinct. They invest heavily in simulation and Hamilton has always seemed to me to be an 'arm around the shoulder' type of sportsman, he needs that human touch which McLaren with all there gizmo's and lovely technology centre seem to lack. Also as for Hamilton's career, he had a stellar rookie year where he beat Alonso, 2nd year he won the WDC, 3rd McLaren built a dog until mid-season and from there Hamilton was very fast, he had a dodgy spell from the end of 2010 throughout 2011 and this year he's been great. If winning 20 races, having 24 Poles and 48 podiums in 104 races is not that good then there's an awful lot of drivers who wished they weren't that good.
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Ross Brawn is one of the great minds of the sport, but he hasn't been able to develop a consistent race winning car since 2009. He needs to sort that problem out first before he can start trying to get the best out of Lewis.
 
Just had a look at Hamiltons season so far on the BBC website, christ those pit stops at the start of the season were painful to watch.
 
iSparky said:
Just had a look at Hamiltons season so far on the BBC website, christ those pit stops at the start of the season were painful to watch.
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The season could of been so much better for him, the pit stops and the mechanical faults, the crash that took him out.
He could of been top if the table or very close to it.
Would he be leaving McLaren if his season was going better?
 
20solskjaer said:
He doesn't have to worry about being good enough to lead the line at McClaren considering he drives for McLaren

Theres not that much between them actually, from joining McLaren in 2010 Jenson has won 603 points, 7 wins and 24 podiums compared to Lewis's 609 points, 9 wins and 19 podiums, Jenson also finished second to Vettel in 2011 while in the 4 years since winning his WDC Hamilton has never finished the championship higher than 4th

Hardly been blown away has he?
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You've basically used stats to eloquently and efficiently say what I'd struggled to say the night before. Good post.

Leg-End said:
2010 they got outdeveloped by Ferrari & Red Bull, 2011 they were all soundly beaten by a monster Red Bull, Hamilton lost momentum mid-season, 2012 has been all Hamilton barring the odd race Button hooks it up (Spa, Australia).

Out of them all Button took advantage of Hamilton's poor mid-2011 and beat him, other than that I think you have to admit Hamilton has done better with his tools over the course of the 3 years.
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A point to make, if I may. To clarify, I don't disagree. I think Hamilton's performed better than Button overall. Button's a consistent 7/10 (barring his atrocious form early this season) while Hamilton has shown a fair amount of 9s.

Regarding the tools, however, I don't think Hamilton's done better at all when you factor in the fact that this team and car are built around him. Before someone tries to claim that McLaren don't favour Lewis and that Button gets given the same amount opportunities, please think about it.

Button's form this season saw him saying multiple times that he wasn't hooked up with the car. Teams have to build a car for two people. I mean, using simple maths alone you can see what's happened! :lol: Two drivers minus the one who's claiming it's not built to their needs equals one driver with a nice car. This McLaren was built for Hamilton, as most of the cars have been.

Has Hamilton out-performed Button for the majority of their time? Slightly, yes. Has Hamilton out-performed Button enough as Driver 1? No, in my opinion.

Off the top of my head, I can't even think of another time where the Driver 2 was so close to the Driver 1 at a top team. Once again, granted, McLaren don't completely shut out their no 2 but I'm sorry, the gap is nowhere near large enough for someone who's been nurtured by a team for over half their life.

I strongly agree with the others here who've said that Hamilton lost a lot of his education by skipping the "maiden season in a struggling car" phase.
 
AVARiCE said:
Button's form this season saw him saying multiple times that he wasn't hooked up with the car.
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I'd argue thats more down to circuit set up, which Button has admitted himself this season as the issue, as opposed to the car being built around one person.

AVARiCE said:
Off the top of my head, I can't even think of another time where the Driver 2 was so close to the Driver 1 at a top team.
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Coulthard, 2001 McLaren & Massa, 2008 Ferrari are two obvious ones off the top of my head.
 
I think people look at Hamilton not dominating Button and somehow conclude he can't be as great as say Vettel or Alonso, well have you taken a minute to look at their team mates? Massa :lol: and Webber who blows hot and cold almost every race.

Has Hamilton ever been Driver 1 since Button joined? No, its been made clear so many times that both are equal-1, Hamilton doesn't have the car built around him. Has Hamilton had his engineer from successful 07/08 seasons taken away from him? Yes he has. McLaren have done everything to ensure Button has had everything Hamilton has, they are far too honest to do otherwise.

I'm not really sure how you can assertively declare every car has been built around Hamilton, 2010 maybe because Button joined that year but thats it. We should also point out 2010 was the year of the regulation changes, full tanks and tyre management became a big issue and 2011 with the Pirelli tyres and somewhat early this year it became F1 "Delta-time" Racing, even Schumacher said it wasn't real racing, all of that points in Button's favour.
 
Just looking at Schumacher's interview. He looks upset, looks as like he feels like he as no choice but to leave.
 
It's come 3 years too late unfortunately.

The Schumacher we have today is unrecognizable from the one that dominated the sport.

I cringed at every stupid thing he did since his return thinking to myself "Why are you embarrassing yourself old man?"
 
Except he's not embarrassing himself. He's been the match of rosberg for the last two years and when his car has been reliable, he's outpaced him for nearly all but one round of this season.

At the end of the day, he's still 43 years old. Unlike that arse clown Coulthard who couldn't even do what Michael is doing now at 35, he 'Michael' is doing something that only he could do at that age. Added to this he's never looked like he was there for the sake of being just a number.

Say what you will, but he didn't have to come back. Nothing to gain everything to lose, but he did it anyway and not for trophies but the thrill of competition. If that's embarrassing then perhaps we should all stop doing what we love. I guarantee that when the likes of Alonso and Vettel are Schumacher's age, they will ask themselves how the feck he did it.
 
One of my dreams has always been to go to a Schmacher race. Going to break the bank and go to the US grand prix now, just to see him race once.
 
This Sky Sports F1 is quite enjoyable, much better than what we get here on Speed in the states. Who are the two commentators?
 
nm03 said:
One of my dreams has always been to go to a Schmacher race. Going to break the bank and go to the US grand prix now, just to see him race once.
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Ticket prices are outrageous but last chance to see him so it would be worth it.
 
Pscholes18 said:
Ticket prices are outrageous but last chance to see him so it would be worth it.
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Exactly. Might get the worst seats in the house, but it will be worth it for me. Childhood dream. Going to buy tickets this weekend.
 
Ouch. Might just take a race only pass from a ticket selling website then.
 
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