The F1 Thread 2012 Season

R_Kelly said:
We'll find out eventually I'm sure. But favouring Mercedes over McLaren in terms of who you think will give you more chance of winning doesn't make much sense to me.

As an aside, I wonder if Hamilton will insist on having an FIA delegate in his garage to make sure McLaren don't tamper with his car. hehe.
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New engine reg's in 2014? Mercedes are a works team so will be able to build their entire car around the engine/design an engine for their car which will be a huge advantage, whilst McLaren won't be able to.

Jaz said:
Schumacher surely retiring then?
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Leg-End said:
Unless Ferrari fancy one last swansong with him which I very much doubt, yeah nobody is taking him in.
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Rumour mill this morning was Perez to McLaren and Peter Sauber has already said he'd offer Schumacher a drive if available. Though just for pure nostalgia, a final year in a Ferrari for Schumacher would be amazing.

From Twitter: Andrew Benson ‏@andrewbensonf1
On subject of possible Schumacher Sauber move, Autosport reports his manager was in talks with Sauber in Singapore last weekend
 
Yea the 2014 changes are huge and being with a works team may pay off. Call me a cynic, though, but I think having more freedom for personal sponsorship deals played as big a role as anything else, if not bigger.

Will be interesting to see how many new deals he agrees over the winter break.
 
R_Kelly said:
Yea the 2014 changes are huge and being with a works team may pay off. Call me a cynic, though, but I think having more freedom for personal sponsorship deals played as big a role as anything else, if not bigger.

Will be interesting to see how many new deals he agrees over the winter break.
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Does have to be said on the face of it and considering who his manager is this looks likely. Can't see why you would leave Mclaren for Mercedes at present.
 
Well Ross Brawn is a huge, HUGE upgrade over that useless cnut Whitmarsh, so that must play into things. Jenson probably regrets going the other way.
 
McLaren are a bit like the Arsenal of F1 though, very pretty and some stunning results but when the chips are down and the results come forward at the end of the season they haven't won the constructors since 1998 and delivered only 1 drivers title in over a decade.

Why not try something new? Ofcourse money has an influence but it isn't all that, if he was truly happy at McLaren and they wanted to keep him he would have signed an extension long ago like Button did.
 
Leg-End said:
McLaren are a bit like the Arsenal of F1 though, very pretty and some stunning results but when the chips are down and the results come forward at the end of the season they haven't won the constructors since 1998 and delivered only 1 drivers title in over a decade.
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This is what I've been thinking. Mclaren are a great team and always there or there abouts but since the Senna days in 91 they've only won 3 drivers' championships and one constructors championship.

In the meantime smaller teams like Renault in various guises have won 4 and Red Bull have won 2 already.

And I think with Mercedes building their own cars its a sensible move.
 
I'm surprised that Perez is joining Mclaren though. Thought he'd end up at Ferrari. I'm guessing Di Resta to Ferrari then?
 
If I had to guess the next moves: Alguersuari to Force India, Di Resta or Hulkenburg to Ferrari, Schumacher to retire, Bottas to Williams, Senna to Sauber, Massa to DTM.
 
Leg-End said:
McLaren are a bit like the Arsenal of F1 though, very pretty and some stunning results but when the chips are down and the results come forward at the end of the season they haven't won the constructors since 1998 and delivered only 1 drivers title in over a decade.

Why not try something new? Ofcourse money has an influence but it isn't all that, if he was truly happy at McLaren and they wanted to keep him he would have signed an extension long ago like Button did.
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Really it comes down to not having the quality of drivers that they had in the past. If they hadn't manage to piss off the best driver in F1 at the moment, they'd probably have more than 1 WDC since 99.

Right now they're coping the reward for putting their faith into an untested talent that got too big for his boots while shit was running hot. Since 08 Hamilton hasn't even looked like a WDC winner and he's suppose to be the team leader. Look at all the past great champions and most of them build themselves up in average to reasonable cars. Last time a driver walked into the best cars on the grid, he won one and then fecked his career up by signing with ironically, the former guise of Mercedes F1. History is very much repeating itself, but I hope for Hamiltons sake, he does better than Jaques.
 
Hamilton replacing Schumacher, here comes an unbiased opinion from mariachi.
 
mariachi-19 said:
Really it comes down to not having the quality of drivers that they had in the past. If they hadn't manage to piss off the best driver in F1 at the moment, they'd probably have more than 1 WDC since 99.

Right now they're coping the reward for putting their faith into an untested talent that got too big for his boots while shit was running hot. Since 08 Hamilton hasn't even looked like a WDC winner and he's suppose to be the team leader. Look at all the past great champions and most of them build themselves up in average to reasonable cars. Last time a driver walked into the best cars on the grid, he won one and then fecked his career up by signing with ironically, the former guise of Mercedes F1. History is very much repeating itself, but I hope for Hamiltons sake, he does better than Jaques.
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Sorry who is that?
 
Ah gash. Well, at least they got Perez as a replacement, only him or Raikkonen would've done really (in terms of available ones).
 
People keep drawing comparisons with Senna moving after 6 seasons at Mclaren. I'm guessing Lewis would probably rather they didn't in that respect.
 
So glad Hamilton's gone. I can get back to hoping McLaren do well. If only they'd re-signed Kimi though...
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
This is what I've been thinking. Mclaren are a great team and always there or there abouts but since the Senna days in 91 they've only won 3 drivers' championships and one constructors championship.

In the meantime smaller teams like Renault in various guises have won 4 and Red Bull have won 2 already.

And I think with Mercedes building their own cars its a sensible move.
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If they hadn't chosen to side with Hamilton over Alonso, they'd definitely have atleast one more WDC.
 
I'd love McLaren to deliver an insanely good car next year and for Button to wipe the floor with everyone :D
 
Hamilton might be a bit flaky but McLaren in the last decade have tended to shoot themselves in the foot. Ross Brawn wouldn't have shat himself like the McLaren pitwall did in China in 2007.
 
Today's news brought Hamilton's age to my attention. He's 27! I'm sure I knew this but seeing it again was still a shock, as he was 24 in my head.

Everyone goes on about Hamilton as if he's some sort of magician behind the wheel with great promise and potential.

He's twenty-seven. Vettel's 25 and he's infinitely more mature. Seeing Hamilton's age hit me so hard -- he still has all the issues of a young driver. He's inconsistent, moody and, up until midway through the previous season at best, couldn't control his own race.

Don't get me wrong, he's supremely talented but for all the hype and forgiveness shown to him he's failed to deliver. Sorry McLaren/Hamilton fans, all the hype that saw him into the sport has not come to much. He is/was far better than a single championship and I don't blame the car for that. At 27 he should be a force to be reckoned with consistently. When he's on form he proves why he's held in such high regard but his inconsistency is inexcusable.

27 and he's still spoken about as the second coming... Wow!
 
27 is young for an F1 driver. Vettel and Hamilton are the new school, wouldn't say Vettel's that mature either, neither of them are in Alonso's league when it comes to the all-round package. I think Hamilton and Alonso have been a step above this year, all three are phenomenal drivers.
 
Hamilton's issues are all mental, race wise he's wonderful and has excellent race craft. Senna didn't win his first title until Hamilton's current age either I believe.
 
I disagree with neither point. Off the top of my head, Schumacher wasn't up to much by 27 either?

The thing is, Hamilton is constantly referred to as some sort of future Messi. Imagine if Messi had hit the scene at 18 and by 24 hadn't shown enough yet. Granted, he'd have been yet to peak but there should be a base to his performance levels. Right now you don't know whether you're getting bling-driven Lewis or the immensely talented driver. By 27 you should know that.

He doesn't have to be winning or showing immense pace all the time but his improvement hasn't been as breathtaking as we've all been promised. It's worth remembering that, in terms of "modern era" drivers, Alonso and Vettel both have more to show. Alonso, specifically, having shown a lot more by the time he was 27.

It's weird to explain but, with respect, Hamilton's hype far outweighs his performance levels. Jensen Button won a stunning Canadian GP last year and has a championship under his belt too. Hamilton's up there with Alonso and Vettel on his day but "his day" is a sensitive, subjective thing.

At 27, given how much money and time has been poured into nurturing his talent, Hamilton should be a much more settled driver. Him moving teams could either finally bring his talent to the fore or just kick up more turbulence and another excuse for him not performing for a while. Either way, knowing his age and how highly he's been spoken of for years, he needs to start showing more. His potential is there but he's 27 now, it's time to turn potential talent into racing ability.
 
AVARiCE said:
I disagree with neither point. Off the top of my head, Schumacher wasn't up to much by 27 either?

The thing is, Hamilton is constantly referred to as some sort of future Messi. Imagine if Messi had hit the scene at 18 and by 24 hadn't shown enough yet. Granted, he'd have been yet to peak but there should be a base to his performance levels. Right now you don't know whether you're getting bling-driven Lewis or the immensely talented driver. By 27 you should know that.

He doesn't have to be winning or showing immense pace all the time but his improvement hasn't been as breathtaking as we've all been promised. It's worth remembering that, in terms of "modern era" drivers, Alonso and Vettel both have more to show. Alonso, specifically, having shown a lot more by the time he was 27.

It's weird to explain but, with respect, Hamilton's hype far outweighs his performance levels. Jensen Button won a stunning Canadian GP last year and has a championship under his belt too. Hamilton's up there with Alonso and Vettel on his day but "his day" is a sensitive, subjective thing.

At 27, given how much money and time has been poured into nurturing his talent, Hamilton should be a much more settled driver. Him moving teams could either finally bring his talent to the fore or just kick up more turbulence and another excuse for him not performing for a while. Either way, knowing his age and how highly he's been spoken of for years, he needs to start showing more. His potential is there but he's 27 now, it's time to turn potential talent into racing ability.
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This. I never got into the Hamilton hype as I've always felt he was lucky enough to have been brought into Mclaren. How many young drivers do you see starting their career with a car which is able to win races? His lack of experience of driving in a lousy car has not allowed him to know his limits, and it shows when he races over aggressively. The likes of Button would be content for settling for 8 points and saving the engine for another race, whereas Hamilton would keep charging on, which results in his car failing or getting into incidents with other drivers much more frequently than the others.

I honestly don't think he's as good as people keep saying he is, give the other young drivers a car as good as his and their results probably wouldn't be that far behind.
 
Interesting point from Brundle,

"Lewis will now have to be excommunicated from any McLaren developments and new knowledge for the next six races.The enemy within. Happy days."
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Completely forgot about that side of the coin, it gets rid of the whole idea of "will JB help Lewis to get points" , not that I think they would have gone down that route anyway but essentially Lewis is now completely cut off for the next few races, he is just filling the seat until the season is over. I know Mclaren have said they are fully committed to both drivers to the end of the season but thats hardly going to be the case is it? They wont let Lewis have a look in on developments now he is moving next year. Strange to think that when JB went there everyone always thought he would be playing second fiddle to Lewis and he would end up having to find a seat elsewhere, fair play to him he has risen to the challenge at that team and is now their number 1.
 
He has been decent but I would hardly describe Button as someone who "has risen to the challenge". I don't think he is good enough to lead the McClaren line up personally.
 
TheBest said:
He has been decent but I would hardly describe Button as someone who "has risen to the challenge". I don't think he is good enough to lead the McClaren line up personally.
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How has he not risen to the challenge? When he went there it was all about him being in the shadow of Lewis and being the number 2 driver in the team, frankly his performances over the past two years have outshone Lewis apart from the slight dip in form he suffered this year. His form for the large part of last season was incredible and I never understand how people can write him off so easily, he is more than capable of leading McLaren, the reality is that he pretty much has led them the past two years now and I reckon if Mclaren get the car right he will be able to lead them to another title.
 
Except this season, its lewis who has lead them. Its not about just the dip, lewis still outshone him last 2 weeks. Anyways I don't like to argue too much but Lewis is quite clearly the better driver IMO. Except for last season, Lewis has been great for McClaren these 5 years. If it wasn't for mechanical failures and pit stops he would've been in for the championship once again(admittedly Jenson also had some badluck) and probably even leading the championship. In qualifying he obviously is in a different league to Jenson.

Its just my opinion that he isn't in the same league as alonso or hamilton, although lewis himself needs to mature a bit to be at alonso's level. By the way I actually like Button so don't take it the wrong way.
 
Nobody knows what Button will do next year, he might rise to the challenge of being the team leader or he might not but until it happens we don't know. People forget Button was in F1 for nearly 6 years until he won a race and 9 before he found himself in a car that could deliver a title, Hamilton hasn't had that upbringing and the natural process of growing into the sport, this move might change him for the better.

The engine rules if they are scrapped its not a huge deal, McLaren will still be paying for engines soon for the first time in years. Being in a manufacturer backed team isn't a gurantee for success but why not try a change? He will only be 30 when his contract expires, thats nothing.
 
Neutral said:
@paddocknews: RT @pitpassdotcom: Bernie Ecclestone suggests new engine rule due to be introduced in 2014 is likely to be scrapped. http://t.co/CVqYoGiy

it's not the most credible or definite of news...but it would be hilarious:lol::lol:
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Pretty please :lol:

Button's a proven race winner and as long as he doesn't go down any stupid set-up blind alleys again, he'll be a very consistent team leader. Don't have to worry about him being an eejit either. Perez is quick as well, will be interesting to see how he goes in a front running car.
 
TheBest said:
He has been decent but I would hardly describe Button as someone who "has risen to the challenge". I don't think he is good enough to lead the McClaren line up personally.
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He doesn't have to worry about being good enough to lead the line at McClaren considering he drives for McLaren

Theres not that much between them actually, from joining McLaren in 2010 Jenson has won 603 points, 7 wins and 24 podiums compared to Lewis's 609 points, 9 wins and 19 podiums, Jenson also finished second to Vettel in 2011 while in the 4 years since winning his WDC Hamilton has never finished the championship higher than 4th

Hardly been blown away has he?
 
Ross Brawn will get the best out of Hamilton, the thing is with McLaren is they are quite a methodical team and they don't really like to rely on instinct. They invest heavily in simulation and Hamilton has always seemed to me to be an 'arm around the shoulder' type of sportsman, he needs that human touch which McLaren with all there gizmo's and lovely technology centre seem to lack. Also as for Hamilton's career, he had a stellar rookie year where he beat Alonso, 2nd year he won the WDC, 3rd McLaren built a dog until mid-season and from there Hamilton was very fast, he had a dodgy spell from the end of 2010 throughout 2011 and this year he's been great. If winning 20 races, having 24 Poles and 48 podiums in 104 races is not that good then there's an awful lot of drivers who wished they weren't that good.
 
2010 they got outdeveloped by Ferrari & Red Bull, 2011 they were all soundly beaten by a monster Red Bull, Hamilton lost momentum mid-season, 2012 has been all Hamilton barring the odd race Button hooks it up (Spa, Australia).

Out of them all Button took advantage of Hamilton's poor mid-2011 and beat him, other than that I think you have to admit Hamilton has done better with his tools over the course of the 3 years.
 
I think the Championship would have been much closer had McLaren got their pit-stop's together from the get go, also they undefuelled in Spain where he beat Button even though he started last and Singapore was a win if not for the failure. Button's a great driver but he's a more sensitive driver, if the car's not there he won't wring the car's neck, Hamilton will. It's a perfectly balanced team on paper, McLaren will be gutted he's gone but Perez has a great future.
 
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