I think its not exactly a great idea to compare alonso's pace with hamilton's given both drove in totally different circumstance. Ferrari and mclaren were both close yesterday and imo were very close under racing conditions as well this weekend.
The F1 Thread 2012 Season
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
As I mentioned earlier coming through the pack might not have been as disadvantageous this weekend.
Couldn't watch it live but just saw the highlights on the Beeb.
Must say Alonso is absolute beast at recovering positions from a poor qualifying. Also Vettel has only 1 win so far this season. Incredible after last year.
Must say Alonso is absolute beast at recovering positions from a poor qualifying. Also Vettel has only 1 win so far this season. Incredible after last year.
It's always like that, though, isn't it? You don't really see the end of someone's domination until it happens. I don't think people saw it happening to Schumacher and Ferrari in 2004, until it did.
Interesting to see Raikkonen only a point off Hamilton. He hasn't won a race yet but he's obviously so consistent in getting points, but he's there as well.
Vettel should have 2 wins really, he was walking it at Valencia. But it does go to show that rating drivers after a few seasons is totally pointless on the scale of things, F1 is 80% car nowdays. Button was around F1 for 8 years before anyone ever thought of him as a great driver, soon as he got the car he turned in the results.
Red Bull built a rocketship last season, its only natural for them to eventually be pulled back into the pack somewhat. I think it highlights that their 2011 cars was fundamentally built around the blown diffuser which provided buckets of rear downforce allowing them to look silly quick in the mid-high speed stuff, probably one of the best cars I've ever seen in high speed corners.
This years car is just more like the Ferrari's & McLaren's therefore Vettel looks somewhat human.
Red Bull built a rocketship last season, its only natural for them to eventually be pulled back into the pack somewhat. I think it highlights that their 2011 cars was fundamentally built around the blown diffuser which provided buckets of rear downforce allowing them to look silly quick in the mid-high speed stuff, probably one of the best cars I've ever seen in high speed corners.
This years car is just more like the Ferrari's & McLaren's therefore Vettel looks somewhat human.
Sid Watkins has died. A man forever associated with F1's most infamous moment, and who helped make it as safe as it is today
A true hero of motorsport, RIP.
RIP
What a hero, many drivers are still alive today thanks to him. For every one life he saved directly, another ten were saved due the safety committee he was president of
What a hero, many drivers are still alive today thanks to him. For every one life he saved directly, another ten were saved due the safety committee he was president of
This is really sad. The man saved countless lives and was an absolute pioneer not only in motor racing but driving on the road and track all around the world. Tremendous human being!
Sad to hear Sid Watkins has passed away 
Nice tribute from Barrichello sums it up well...
"It was Sid Watkins that saved my life in Imola 94. Great guy to be with, always happy. Thanks for everything you have done for us drivers. RIP."
Shame Senna didn't listen to Watkins after Ratzenburger died in '94....
Watkins said to Senna: "What else do you need to do? You have been world champion three times, you are obviously the quickest driver. Give it up and let's go fishing."
Senna died the following day.
Nice tribute from Barrichello sums it up well...
"It was Sid Watkins that saved my life in Imola 94. Great guy to be with, always happy. Thanks for everything you have done for us drivers. RIP."
Shame Senna didn't listen to Watkins after Ratzenburger died in '94....
Watkins said to Senna: "What else do you need to do? You have been world champion three times, you are obviously the quickest driver. Give it up and let's go fishing."
Senna died the following day.
That's real sad news.
I read his book. The safety standards from his time were laughable and the way he took on the FIA and the Governments to improve them of the world is truly heroic.
I think he is a true legend of F1.
That's really sad news. I only really found out about him through looking back about the Senna incident, he really did an amazing job and sounded like a genuinely great person as well.
RIP Watkins. Amazing the things that he did and too right that he did too.
Alonso made some comments today about the title race: "Hamilton is the only one who is capable of winning without having the best car, which is evident as the others only win when they have a good car. There will be some twists and turns among the title contenders in the final run-in, as it's a closely-fought battle. It's easier when you've got an advantage over the rest. I'm more relaxed than I was last year."
Former McLaren driver Alonso also spoke of his time with the team and his decision to leave the British outfit in 2008: "It was the best decision I've taken in my life. McLaren is a strong team, but has won few World Championships in the past ten years."
Interesting.
Alonso made some comments today about the title race: "Hamilton is the only one who is capable of winning without having the best car, which is evident as the others only win when they have a good car. There will be some twists and turns among the title contenders in the final run-in, as it's a closely-fought battle. It's easier when you've got an advantage over the rest. I'm more relaxed than I was last year."
Former McLaren driver Alonso also spoke of his time with the team and his decision to leave the British outfit in 2008: "It was the best decision I've taken in my life. McLaren is a strong team, but has won few World Championships in the past ten years."
Interesting.
Heh, that's one way of looking at how he left...
Will be interesting to hear the full details of Alonso's time at McLaren and the whole 'spy gate' story.
Reading DC's and Jo Ramirez's (worked at McLaren for many years) books its fairly obvious that Ron Dennis can be a bit of a dick. Alonso gets a lot of blame for his time there and a lot is justified but Dennis probably had a big role too.
Reading DC's and Jo Ramirez's (worked at McLaren for many years) books its fairly obvious that Ron Dennis can be a bit of a dick. Alonso gets a lot of blame for his time there and a lot is justified but Dennis probably had a big role too.
Well the thing is the plan in theory was great on paper, Alonso brought in to provide the team with a world class driver whilst Hamilton was nurtured by the team to be the long term McLaren driver whilst learning from one of the best on the grid.
After 4 races the plan looked like it was working perfectly, McLaren built a front running car and the two got along then Monaco happened and they couldn't hold Hamilton back anymore. Hamilton exceeded expectations, everyone including his own team expected him to be fast but need a season or two to probably match Alonso, fact is he was quick from Round 1.
Alonso was clearly promised the role Ferrari now give him and it was quite clear after a few races he wasn't going to get it and he threw his toys out the pram. Hamilton wasn't the saint he was made out to be whilst it was going on, he unleashed the competitive instinct behind closed doors and Dennis backed his boy.
2007 was a classic season.
After 4 races the plan looked like it was working perfectly, McLaren built a front running car and the two got along then Monaco happened and they couldn't hold Hamilton back anymore. Hamilton exceeded expectations, everyone including his own team expected him to be fast but need a season or two to probably match Alonso, fact is he was quick from Round 1.
Alonso was clearly promised the role Ferrari now give him and it was quite clear after a few races he wasn't going to get it and he threw his toys out the pram. Hamilton wasn't the saint he was made out to be whilst it was going on, he unleashed the competitive instinct behind closed doors and Dennis backed his boy.
2007 was a classic season.
I celebrated after Brazil '07 more than any other race I can remember, except maybe Monza '07 but that was just because I was there. An absolutely epic conclusion to a brilliant brilliant season, I still get a kick out of watching the season review now.
The Alonso and Hamilton relationship breakdown was almost certainly caused by both of them, but ultimately Ron Dennis is the one who has to take responsibility. He managed it horrendously; "We were basically racing Fernando", hmmm.
RIP to Watkins, a true hero of F1 and indeed all motorsport, such a shame he's gone.
The Alonso and Hamilton relationship breakdown was almost certainly caused by both of them, but ultimately Ron Dennis is the one who has to take responsibility. He managed it horrendously; "We were basically racing Fernando", hmmm.
RIP to Watkins, a true hero of F1 and indeed all motorsport, such a shame he's gone.
I always think that "We were basically racing Fernando" quote doesn't really mean anything given that relationship had broken down long before China happened, its pretty obvious Ron wanted Hamilton to win out of the two by then.
Honestly like you said I don't think any of the three came out of it looking good, had they just swallowed a bit of their pride either of those drivers would have won the championship.
Honestly like you said I don't think any of the three came out of it looking good, had they just swallowed a bit of their pride either of those drivers would have won the championship.
I think it's just indicative of the general relationship between them over the course of the season post Monaco. The team principle shouldn't really be saying stuff like that in public.
It's hard to disagree with that last point, but I'm glad it went how it did, being a massive Kimi fanboy
It's hard to disagree with that last point, but I'm glad it went how it did, being a massive Kimi fanboy
The only thing that stopped them winning the championship was what happened in the last couple of races, very little to do with what Dennis did. It's just very hard to manage two excellent drivers with fiery personalities within one team.
Hamilton and Alonso didn't cover themselves in glory. However Dennis mismanaged it, I don't think he thought Hamilton would be that fast. I think it suprised everyone and then I think post Hungary there was a massive divide, Dennis was arguably more pissed at Hamilton then. McLaren really shot themselves in the foot that year, I just think the way that team conducts itself just doesn't suit some drivers.
McLaren are very methodical and invest heavy in simulation for strategy and I just don't Alonso fits into that, it's also a team doesn't really do de facto Number 1 drivers. Alonso always fits in best where he's the main man. I don't know but I've heard Alonso really alienated members of the team that year, I just think Hamilton played the politics better out of the two and as time has passed Alonso appreciates that. There's that mutual respect. You saw in Monza that Alonso didn't really acknowledge Phil Prew (Hamilton's engineer that season) on the Podium whilst everyone else was chatting away. Mismanagement and stubborn personalities is a bad mix.
McLaren are very methodical and invest heavy in simulation for strategy and I just don't Alonso fits into that, it's also a team doesn't really do de facto Number 1 drivers. Alonso always fits in best where he's the main man. I don't know but I've heard Alonso really alienated members of the team that year, I just think Hamilton played the politics better out of the two and as time has passed Alonso appreciates that. There's that mutual respect. You saw in Monza that Alonso didn't really acknowledge Phil Prew (Hamilton's engineer that season) on the Podium whilst everyone else was chatting away. Mismanagement and stubborn personalities is a bad mix.
Yes he can't be blamed for the way in which Hamilton lost the title (unless you count his pit crew who forced him to stay out on tyres worn to the canvas or Hamilton's gearbox issue in Brazil, I don't).
He can be blamed for mismanaging the situation but once Alonso effectively tried to blackmail him with the whole Ferrari spy-gate thing I don't really blame him (I do blame him for not keeping his house in order over the whole spying issue).
Of course, a lot of stuff went bad that year, I just think the ultimate failure to win the championship was based on those two poor showings at the end. Probably a good job that Raikkonen won it in the end mind, won the most races and it would have been seen as a fairly tainted title by many, had a McLaren won.
That moment after Hungary quali though when Ron marched the Alonso guy (his trainer I think?) down the pitlane was classic though
That moment after Hungary quali though when Ron marched the Alonso guy (his trainer I think?) down the pitlane was classic though
In clarifying the position relating the Vettel's penalty, the FIA have said:
That's so retarded it's almost funny.
That's so retarded it's almost funny.
Depends on the speeds to be honest, if drivers just continue to move across once the car behind commits to an overtake then contact or off track avoidance is inevitable.
If cars want to block then they should do so long before a car moves alongside, talking about quick reactions of course and huge closing speeds but these are the best drivers in the world.
If cars want to block then they should do so long before a car moves alongside, talking about quick reactions of course and huge closing speeds but these are the best drivers in the world.
It was the 'any part of the very front of the car constitutes a 'significant portion' of the car' bit I find stupid.
could be a very interesting Singapore GP this weekend, forecast is for storms all weekend.
Always is, never rains though.
Twitter saying Jake Humphrey is quitting BBC to present the football for BT next year
Jesus, he's become a BBC poster boy, that'd be surprising.
Been confirmed now
They must be playing him a right wedge.
He's come a long way since Newsround and Bamzooki. Also I'd say that's my BBC F1 viewing done.
Huge blow for the BBC, humphrey was a fantastic presenter especially on F1.
Ah shit. He's definitely one of the reasons I still watch coverage on the BBC when they have the live races.
That is a big blow to the BBC coverage. Who will replace him?
They will probably just promote Lee McKenzie to main presenter and use one of the radio reporters to replace her.
I didn't care for him because of the snide way he frequently treated Eddie Jordan. Yeah, Jordan can be a bit of a clown but who the hell is Jake Humphrey compared to Jordan? Where's Jake's Formula One expertise and experience, in comparison?
I thought he was excellent. As for EJ, they were quite obviously friends, I don't see the issue with it. With Brundle already gone, and Humphrey on the way out, that's pretty much the end of the best F1 coverage I've ever seen.
He is a commenter, why does he need to have the same experiences has Eddie Jordan?
Jake was the best part of the BBC F1 team, him and Eddie are a fantastic double act.
I think your being far to harsh on him.