not giving anything away there,ignoring the remake about keeping Lewis.
The F1 Thread 2012 Season
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
Button being the mix should really help Hamilton.
I also don't get the Vettel hate. Yeah it was boring whilst he was winning but he's not even winning much anymore, and he is probably the most likeable driver off the track. He's also extremely funny in interviews, and just seems like a really nice guy. Don't understand it at all.
It's because he's Ger...never mind.
Not really. Before it was Redbull, now McLaren?
The very fact that Ferrari are slowly getting closer and closer to the front of the grid and in pace is good news for them.
lots of boo's for Lewis there
He's a McLaren driver in Italy at Monza...wtf do you expect?
Ferrari weren't near Button or Hamilton in this race, then Perez swooped past them too. Alonso would have had 4th if not for Button's DNF. Button and Hamilton being very competitive has to worry Alonso. McLaren have breezed the last 3 races in the context of this season.
Alonso!Winning at Monza in a Ferrari must be the best feeling ever.
just what I expected
Alonsocam!
Ron Dennis is a bastard when it comes to contract negotiations.
He's a bastard full stop.
WOW they waste no time in getting everything packed up.
You have to respect his rise though, phenomenal career.
Massa has been awful all season and he gets himself 4th.
Alonso started 10th, got himself 3rd.
This is a very good result.
Hamilton started 1st ended 1st. No surprise. The relative pace of the McLaren versus Ferrari is unknown, especially given that Massa was pretty much the same speed as Button, suggests that Ferrari are on par on pace. This is very good given the poor start to the season.
Man what a great car Sauber have built this year, I mean it might lack a bit of pace but it's second to none on tyre wear. Perez looks a very good driver but I think he gets too much credit for his tyre usage, thats all down to the car mainly, its a huge stength for it.
That's not to say Perez doesn't look like a future race winner in his own right.
That's not to say Perez doesn't look like a future race winner in his own right.
They're incredible, when I was there me and my mate walked around the track straight after the podium ceremony, coming back in just before parabolica and by the time we got around the teams lorries were leaving the circuit.
So 2 more weeks till the next race. One more win for lewis will make the championship exciting, thats all I want. Last race drama please
Ferrari were probably that much slower in the last few laps because they had done more laps on those particular tyres as they had stopped earlier than the McLarens. Hamilton had free air in front of him throughout the race as he was leading, whereas the Ferraris had to come through traffic earlier in their second stints which takes more out of the tyres and the car. No doubt about it now though, the McLarens and the Ferraris look like the fastest cars.
Constructors Championship looking very interesting now too -
Red Bull - 272
McLaren - 243
Ferrari - 226
Lotus - 217
Anyone's game. Can't wait to see more Alonso vs Hamilton too.
Constructors Championship looking very interesting now too -
Red Bull - 272
McLaren - 243
Ferrari - 226
Lotus - 217
Anyone's game. Can't wait to see more Alonso vs Hamilton too.
Massa has been awful all season and he gets himself 4th.
Alonso started 10th, got himself 3rd.
This is a very good result.
Hamilton started 1st ended 1st. No surprise. The relative pace of the McLaren versus Ferrari is unknown, especially given that Massa was pretty much the same speed as Button, suggests that Ferrari are on par on pace. This is very good given the poor start to the season.
What's the confusion? Massa wasn't closing on Button, neither was Alonso. Hamilton was well ahead and Perez was quicker than them all. How can you be on par with pace when you are behind, just because the gap is consistent doesn't mean you are on the same raw pace. Hamilton seemed to feel he had a lot more in him in Qualifying, of course it's a great result for Fernando but when a car wins 3 races in a row you have to be worried in the back of your mind. Hamilton finished 20s ahead of Fernando.
When you have so many different winners in a season then one car seems to start to dominate then you have to worry a little bit.
Ferrari were closer to the front this weekend but at Spa and Hungary they didn't seem on par with McLaren at all.
Perez is irrelevant in this discussion. Most of his advantage was on tyre degradation differences.
Hamilton finishing 20 seconds ahead of Alonso is not a good result, considering how many cars Alonso had to pass, and time stuck behind them. This, in terms of formula 1 is not much. I this it's a really poor analysis to even mention that. You can only really make such a head to head analysis if the Alonso/Hamilton were 1,2 and the gap was 20 seconds. This wasn't the case today. Massa, was about 5-6 seconds behind Button, but Massa is not a good driver as Button. So that's why I think there's not much difference in race pace.
Your point that Ferrari should be even more worried about McLaren is bogus, they would have been really stupid not to worry in the first place because Ferrari was way off the pace for practically all the qualifying from Redbull, McLaren, even Mercedes and Lotus in some races. The situation is exactly the same as last week, Ferrari need to improve their qualifying performances. They need Massa in the mix. In the mean time, they hope that Alonso keeps on getting points, and the leaders keep taking points of each other. All of this happened.
Alonso can't keep afford finishing 3rd behind the McLaren's in ideal race conditions, the Ferrari's aren't as quick as McLaren, Massa had clean air and we know he's not as quick as Alonso but he didn't close on either McLaren and got jumped at the stops, then Alonso didn't even really close on Hamilton until Perez came on his tail, Hamilton the dropped the hammer a bit once Perez had gone to 2nd. Sauber are very relevant to this discussion as their qualifying in Spa proves. We know they have great race pace too. At Monza I don't think traffic is as much of a factor with the DRS zones and speeds.
I don't get why no one would be worried about a team winning 3 consecutive races on 3 varying tracks in such a random season.
Hamilton went from the 28's to the 29's after Button dropped out, managed it then went back into the 28's once Perez was past Alonso, Alonso only dipped into the high 28's with Perez on his tail which is more or less the only occasion when he had a clear track.
Hamilton was cruising for a good half of that race, much like Button was at Spa. Hard to seriously argue that it's not the fastest car out there at the moment.
You could also argue it's somewhat advantageous for optimum lap time to be behind a car and come through at Monza, obviously it depends where you are on the track behind that car and on the setup of your car. We know the Ferrari's were taking advantage of tow's though from qualifying.
Because the main contenders were practically out of the race in in Spa and Monzo, or they had qualification issues. though I agree if hamilton wins the next race it might show they are leading.
Massa did not have clean air? He was behind Button for a period of time, and frankly, he's not a great driver, and no where near as good as Button. Has anyone ever seen Massa actually drive faster than Button?
Perez? Perez pitted on lap 31, Hamilton on 24, Alonso on 21. This is the only reason why Perez cause up with the Ferraris, and was still catching Hamilton by 1/2-1s a lap.
Let's see what happens in the next race, surely we won't get so many retirements, and we can figure out who's where...
They would be worried but I think both were quite close today and as for alonso not closing on at the end that was probably because lewis had fresher tyres.
I'm seriously arguing that that if Alonso qualified 2nd, as was anticipated (without the failure). He would have won the race, because I think the Ferrari was capable of matching the McLaren for pace this weekend.
Correct, also the reason why Perez was so much faster than everyone.
Well on their fastest laps their tyres were similarly old and they were both being chased by Perez and Hamilton was 4 tenths quicker not to mention equalling lap times he was doing before Button has dropped out. He did a 28.9 on lap 30 and 29 flat on the last lap.
Wasn't Massa 2nd at the pitstops or did I imagine that?
Got overtaken by Button just before, and Button lengthened his lead over him when he came out despite the poor stop. Button then promptly started pulling away from him afterwards.
Because the main contenders were practically out of the race in in Spa and Monzo, or they had qualification issues. though I agree if hamilton wins the next race it might show they are leading.
Massa did not have clean air? He was behind Button for a period of time, and frankly, he's not a great driver, and no where near as good as Button. Has anyone ever seen Massa actually drive faster than Button?
Perez? Perez pitted on lap 31, Hamilton on 24, Alonso on 21. This is the only reason why Perez cause up with the Ferraris, and was still catching Hamilton by 1/2-1s a lap.
Let's see what happens in the next race, surely we won't get so many retirements, and we can figure out who's where...
Massa is a very quick driver on his day. Admittedly his days are few and far between but he's no slouch. Sauber were quick in Qualy in Spa and can make difficult strategies work.
Ah, that must have happened whilst I putting the washing out.
Massa was overtaken by Button, after 2 slow laps before the pitstop. Think the tyre performance fell off.
Again, tyre degradation. Lewis still had 4 laps new tyres than Alonso. Alonso would also have taken more out of his tyres passing Vettel (and getting rammed of the road). Meanwhile, Hamilton looked after his tyres...Not need to defend at corners, no risk of lockups, less tyre degradation.
I'm not arguing that McLaren are slow, I'm saying that Ferrari are pretty close, and in terms of performance, probably one of the quickest races they've had this season.
After watching Hamilton's interview with the Sky guys at the end I can't help but think he's gone. It's not because of what he's said but I just can't see how he can stay at this point. He'd have such a job simply regaining the respect and trust of the team that I don't think it's feasible any more.
Whitmarsh has slowly started to talk about Hamilton as a bit of a lone wolf -- a driver who isn't really fully engaged with the team, if you like -- and this is the team that nurtured him. If they can't keep him 'under control' then I can't help but think they'll run the risk again in the future; it's not like they'll struggle for driving talent. In some ways, Hamilton's outgrown McLaren anyway, they're a sensible outfit these days and Hamilton needs the sort of setup that Schumacher got at Ferrari. Well, IMO anyway. I think he needs to be the undisputed number 1 and a car that's set up purely for his needs.
But yeah, the longer this goes on the less I can see McLaren wanting him to actually sign. I imagine he's tarnished a lot of the goodwill he had from being a homegrown talent. On an emotional level, it could be seen as a bit of a betrayal.
Whitmarsh has slowly started to talk about Hamilton as a bit of a lone wolf -- a driver who isn't really fully engaged with the team, if you like -- and this is the team that nurtured him. If they can't keep him 'under control' then I can't help but think they'll run the risk again in the future; it's not like they'll struggle for driving talent. In some ways, Hamilton's outgrown McLaren anyway, they're a sensible outfit these days and Hamilton needs the sort of setup that Schumacher got at Ferrari. Well, IMO anyway. I think he needs to be the undisputed number 1 and a car that's set up purely for his needs.
But yeah, the longer this goes on the less I can see McLaren wanting him to actually sign. I imagine he's tarnished a lot of the goodwill he had from being a homegrown talent. On an emotional level, it could be seen as a bit of a betrayal.
I suppose, I don't think his run-in with Vettel cost Fernando that much in terms of tyres, he wasn't pushed onto gravel IIRC only dry grass. First Stints to me look quite even although I don't Lewis would have pitted for a while had everyone else not pitted, 2nd stints to me look like McLaren had a definite edge. Ferrari would be happy with today but McLaren's ability to go to a variety of tracks and win (Hungary,Spa,Monza) will put some doubts in their mind. Having two drivers at the front helps too, if Massa goes back to his usual self then Alonso is all alone.