I'm not saying Button doesn't deserve his win, of course he does, I'm saying that today's race isn't really evidence to be suggesting Hamilton doesn't have the right to be the number 1 in the team, he drove a very very good race today.
The F1 Thread 2010 Season
- Thread starter EZee
- Start date
anybody else hear race control over the commentary. Pretty much made it known that Hamilton would get a penalty
That Hamilton/Vettel pitlane incident just highlights a glaring rule error. Hamilton's pitbox is one in front of Vettel therefore because of the close proximity on entry Vettel enters his box first and obviously will then leave slightly before Hamilton. Now if the rule is 50m or whatever they decided on its basically penalising Hamilton a place just because he is one pitbox ahead of Vettel and will therefore leave slightly later than Vettel. Why Vettel then decides to push Hamilton towards the airlines is anyones guess.
Quality for both McLaren drivers today though.
Quality for both McLaren drivers today though.
best race is quite a few seasons -- lots of drama, crashes, one-on-one scuffles, more over-taking and re-overtaking that I have seen in years. Must be the rain.
Another big week for me, with all my drivers finishing in the top five
Kobayashi and the testing cheats Sauber have fecked my team up.
I have decided my seasons target is to beat nick
Just want to comment on a few things that have been discussed already
The safety car
I don't have so much issue with it being out, but I reckon double yellows would suffice, but why was it out for so long, does it have to stay out until everyone has caught up, that seemed very shit
Vettel vs Hamilton
The stewards are something of a joke this season, meant to be so much better, well I guess they are consistent, they are consistently lenient, Webber in Aus and Hamilton's weaving spring to mind, both should have been punished in my opinion, but today's is surely the worst, Vettel leaning into Hamilton and forcing him into the area where the mechanics could've been, that could have been a very serious incident. A reprimand just doesn't cut it. I think it's because it perhaps would have been a bit harsh to punish Hamilton for not yielding the place, you see side by side quite often in the pits, so rather than punish one and not the other, they punished neither. I'd have gone 5 grid places for Hamilton and 10 for Vettel.
The safety car
I don't have so much issue with it being out, but I reckon double yellows would suffice, but why was it out for so long, does it have to stay out until everyone has caught up, that seemed very shit
Vettel vs Hamilton
The stewards are something of a joke this season, meant to be so much better, well I guess they are consistent, they are consistently lenient, Webber in Aus and Hamilton's weaving spring to mind, both should have been punished in my opinion, but today's is surely the worst, Vettel leaning into Hamilton and forcing him into the area where the mechanics could've been, that could have been a very serious incident. A reprimand just doesn't cut it. I think it's because it perhaps would have been a bit harsh to punish Hamilton for not yielding the place, you see side by side quite often in the pits, so rather than punish one and not the other, they punished neither. I'd have gone 5 grid places for Hamilton and 10 for Vettel.
Ah ok so it's officially no punishment for either of them. Interesting
There's nothing doing with the pit release, they did it almost identically. I think once they're getting away and Hamilton is just behind, he should yield and give the place back. That said you're right, Vettel was very stupid in pushing him into the mechanics. Apparently he's come out afterwards and said "I don't know why he was keen to touch me". Dunno how he has the balls to say that personally. I like Vettel but it's been a shit day for him in my view
There's nothing doing with the pit release, they did it almost identically. I think once they're getting away and Hamilton is just behind, he should yield and give the place back. That said you're right, Vettel was very stupid in pushing him into the mechanics. Apparently he's come out afterwards and said "I don't know why he was keen to touch me". Dunno how he has the balls to say that personally. I like Vettel but it's been a shit day for him in my view
Yep, just a reprimand for both, simply, it's just not good enough
BBC Sport - F1 - Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel given FIA reprimand
BBC Sport - F1 - Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel given FIA reprimand
Just in relation to last season, the naysayers of Button's World Championship achievement complaining that he had the best car early on, then was poor when the performance advantage slackened. Well it's one thing to have the best car, it's another to ruthlessly capitalise on it as Button did last season. Vettel is as dominant over his team mate with the same car as Button was last season, but despite having the best car by a distance these first 4 races, he stands 5th in the Championship with 45 points. He could and maybe should easily have 100. Not all his fault, some weather and reliability issues involved there, but you can see Red Bull paying for throwing away points later in the season when perhaps other teams have caught up and overtaken them
That was a brilliant race I have to say. Button fully deserved that win. With all the commentary talk about how Schumacher was still a wily old fox Button showed his experience today with his tyre choices aswell, as did rosberg who really is getting the most out of that Mercedes.
With the Vettel - Hamilton pit lane thing Vettel was ahead and Hamilton should have pulled back. Vettel was just using the the width of the pit lane which he is entitled to do. It was Hamiltons decision to drive side by side he could have pulled back at any time but decided to keep going and drive dangerously close to the pits.
I'm with Alonso about his comments afterward that he is looking forward to a dry race in Barcelona, I know it hasn't always been the most exciting race but it will be good to see where the teams are in relation to eachother without weather disrupting everything
With the Vettel - Hamilton pit lane thing Vettel was ahead and Hamilton should have pulled back. Vettel was just using the the width of the pit lane which he is entitled to do. It was Hamiltons decision to drive side by side he could have pulled back at any time but decided to keep going and drive dangerously close to the pits.
I'm with Alonso about his comments afterward that he is looking forward to a dry race in Barcelona, I know it hasn't always been the most exciting race but it will be good to see where the teams are in relation to eachother without weather disrupting everything
Looking at the Vettel-Lewis pitlane clash as Eddie Jordan said its almost simultaneous with the lollypop man maybe a few seconds. There is no time to look at the other cars in teh pitlane to me its a racing incident. But I don't know what Vettel was playing at Lewis you can clearly see Vettel look at Lewis and move towards him didn't need to do that.
Ferrari F1 barcode a ‘smokescreen for cigarette adverts’
Ferrari F1 barcode a ‘smokescreen for cigarette adverts’ - Times Online
Leading doctors are demanding an immediate government inquiry into “subliminal” tobacco advertising on Ferrari’s Formula One cars, and the company’s $1 billion relationship with the maker of Marlboro cigarettes, The Times has learnt.
The red, white and black bar code emblazoned on Ferrari’s racing cars and its drivers’ overalls is designed to remind viewers of a packet of Marlboro cigarettes, it is claimed. Under EU legislation it is an offence for a tobacco company to sponsor sporting events.
Yesterday a spokesman for the European Public Health Commissioner said he thought that Marlboro’s approach constituted potential subliminal marketing. He urged the Spanish and British governments to ascertain whether the world’s second-biggest tobacco company might be in breach of the law.
Formula One teams are due to fly into Spain for the European leg of the season which begins in ten days’ time. The British Grand Prix is on July 11.
Don Elgie, chief executive of Creston, which owns the advertising agency DLKW, said he thought that the bar code was subliminal advertising — where a brand is so recognisable that consumers can be reminded of a product without actually seeing it.
John Britton, a Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians and director of its tobacco advisory group, said: “The bar code looks like the bottom half of a packet of Marlboro cigarettes. I was stunned when I saw it. This is pushing at the limits. If you look at how the bar code has evolved over the last four years, it looks like creeping branding.”
Gerard Hastings, director of the Centre for Tobacco Control Research, said: “I think this is advertising. Why a bar code? What is their explanation?”
Frank Dobson, who was Health Secretary between 1997 and 1999, also called for an inquiry. Mr Dobson, now a backbench Labour MP, said: “The tobacco firms were working out years ago how they could advertise if there was a ban on tobacco advertising.”
Spokesmen for Sir Liam Donaldson, the Chief Medical Officer, and the Department of Health refused to comment. A spokesperson for the BBC, which has a contract to broadcast Formula One, said: “We are confident that Formula One, and as a result our coverage of Formula One, is fully compliant with regulations.”
In September 2005 Philip Morris, the maker of Marlboro, extended its financial backing for the Ferrari team until 2011, despite the ban on cigarette branding on cars racing in the European Union. The contract is understood to be worth $1 billion over ten years and Philip Morris said Ferraris would not carry Marlboro branding where there was a ban.
A spokesman for the Italian car maker said: “The bar code is part of the livery of the car, it is not part of a subliminal advertising campaign.”
Asked about the Philip Morris contract he said: “$100 million [a year] is not a correct figure. We do not disclose the figure — the figure you mention, it is lower.”
Ferrari is the only Formula One team with a tobacco brand in its formal title, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro. Its logo also has the bar code and its drivers, Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa, wear overalls bearing the bar code next to the Ferrari logo on each arm.
Philip Morris said: “We are confident that our relationship with Ferrari does not violate the UK 2002 Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Act. The Formula One Grand Prix in the UK does not involve any race cars, team apparel, equipment or track signage carrying tobacco product branding. The same is true for all other Formula One races across the world.”
Ferrari F1 barcode a ‘smokescreen for cigarette adverts’ - Times Online
Leading doctors are demanding an immediate government inquiry into “subliminal” tobacco advertising on Ferrari’s Formula One cars, and the company’s $1 billion relationship with the maker of Marlboro cigarettes, The Times has learnt.
The red, white and black bar code emblazoned on Ferrari’s racing cars and its drivers’ overalls is designed to remind viewers of a packet of Marlboro cigarettes, it is claimed. Under EU legislation it is an offence for a tobacco company to sponsor sporting events.
Yesterday a spokesman for the European Public Health Commissioner said he thought that Marlboro’s approach constituted potential subliminal marketing. He urged the Spanish and British governments to ascertain whether the world’s second-biggest tobacco company might be in breach of the law.
Formula One teams are due to fly into Spain for the European leg of the season which begins in ten days’ time. The British Grand Prix is on July 11.
Don Elgie, chief executive of Creston, which owns the advertising agency DLKW, said he thought that the bar code was subliminal advertising — where a brand is so recognisable that consumers can be reminded of a product without actually seeing it.
John Britton, a Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians and director of its tobacco advisory group, said: “The bar code looks like the bottom half of a packet of Marlboro cigarettes. I was stunned when I saw it. This is pushing at the limits. If you look at how the bar code has evolved over the last four years, it looks like creeping branding.”
Gerard Hastings, director of the Centre for Tobacco Control Research, said: “I think this is advertising. Why a bar code? What is their explanation?”
Frank Dobson, who was Health Secretary between 1997 and 1999, also called for an inquiry. Mr Dobson, now a backbench Labour MP, said: “The tobacco firms were working out years ago how they could advertise if there was a ban on tobacco advertising.”
Spokesmen for Sir Liam Donaldson, the Chief Medical Officer, and the Department of Health refused to comment. A spokesperson for the BBC, which has a contract to broadcast Formula One, said: “We are confident that Formula One, and as a result our coverage of Formula One, is fully compliant with regulations.”
In September 2005 Philip Morris, the maker of Marlboro, extended its financial backing for the Ferrari team until 2011, despite the ban on cigarette branding on cars racing in the European Union. The contract is understood to be worth $1 billion over ten years and Philip Morris said Ferraris would not carry Marlboro branding where there was a ban.
A spokesman for the Italian car maker said: “The bar code is part of the livery of the car, it is not part of a subliminal advertising campaign.”
Asked about the Philip Morris contract he said: “$100 million [a year] is not a correct figure. We do not disclose the figure — the figure you mention, it is lower.”
Ferrari is the only Formula One team with a tobacco brand in its formal title, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro. Its logo also has the bar code and its drivers, Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa, wear overalls bearing the bar code next to the Ferrari logo on each arm.
Philip Morris said: “We are confident that our relationship with Ferrari does not violate the UK 2002 Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Act. The Formula One Grand Prix in the UK does not involve any race cars, team apparel, equipment or track signage carrying tobacco product branding. The same is true for all other Formula One races across the world.”
Now thanks to that report, everyone will start thinking it's a cigarette advert and will give those companies more attention than they had in the first place.
Oh, and I have no clue how they managed to deduce that it's a Marlboro advert!
Oh, and I have no clue how they managed to deduce that it's a Marlboro advert!
Well the barcode took the place of the Marlboro logos when they became illegal, with the proper logos appearing in races held where there was no anti tobacco advertising laws, although they are now prevented from having them at all, presumably because the images are broadcast in countries where this is a ban?
But at the end of the day, that barcode is not trademark or logo owned by Marlboro, so they have no case. Everyone knows what it's really for, but there is nothing to link the two in any official capacity so they're pissing into the wind.
But at the end of the day, that barcode is not trademark or logo owned by Marlboro, so they have no case. Everyone knows what it's really for, but there is nothing to link the two in any official capacity so they're pissing into the wind.
You guys don't see the subliminal message or is it me? I can see the Marlboro just in front of me having a puff right now.
A lap of the new Silverstone
Build up to qualifying begins in 45 minutes. Red Bull are set to dominate but Mercedes seem to have changed their car a lot to suit it to Schumacher so he is expected to do a lot better than the previous 3 races. Not sure how Rosberg is meant to feel here, he's out performed Schumacher so far, yet Mercedes seem to have tailored the cars to suit Michael.
Is that really the case? Mercedes had said they are changing cars for schumacher since it was damaged and they were looking to replace it with their other test car or something. don't think they ever tune both cars for one racer.
I'm sorry but thats a load of bollocks. The cars are developed to suite the needs of the driver through their feedback. If Rosberg's feed back is sub par, why shouldn't Mercedes listen more closely to Michael? Rosberg hasn't looked like getting close to winning a race, so why not take a punt.
So are you saying both cars are more suited to Michael if that indeed is the case?
I'm just going by assorted articles I've read. May have got totally the wrong idea though as I've just read Legards blog and he says Rosberg was in full agreement with changing the car. So who knows? I'm a huge Schumacher fan, but its not going to be the first time he's had a larger say than his teammate on various issues if true
No. The car is built in a certain style. Its then up to the drivers and their teams of engineers to extract performance from it that suites their driving style.
Sorry my quote was more for Gormless before hand.
That F-duct on the Ferrari is odd how he has to use the back of his hand to block it.
Ah. I thought you were referring to me. And yeah, the car is built upon a certain parameters that involve feedback from the whole set of the team's drivers. With respect to Schumacher, there is not much doubt for anyone why his feedback holds much sway.
Red Bull one and two ,they are much faster than anything else.
Hamilton 3th and Button 5th
Lets hope for an intresting race tommorow and not a bore fest
Hamilton 3th and Button 5th
Lets hope for an intresting race tommorow and not a bore fest
if they can lap a second a lap quicker than the cars just behind them and they keep that up all race it will back to the days of ferrari lapping most of the field...
Not likely to be interesting, never really is here anyway and with the Red Bull's way out in front the chances are its over as a spectacle at the front after Lap 1.
A second faster, wow
Vettel must be nailed on in the Championship betting at the moment then
Vettel must be nailed on in the Championship betting at the moment then
At this stage reliability issues are the only things that can stop Red Bull
Got to hope that someone can get in front of the Red Bulls, or surely they're just going to go flying away
no they are just flying away...
hopefully the fight for 3rd might be interesting???
I'm bored already
All the talk about getting rid of some of the best circuits in the calender, I never hear the dire ones like Barcelona threatened
All the talk about getting rid of some of the best circuits in the calender, I never hear the dire ones like Barcelona threatened
unless webber's car fails , then race is all over.
BORING BORING BORING
BORING BORING BORING
Now Lewis is up front the race is less exciting so he's not fighting from the back.
Race has improved a tad with the Hamilton / Vettel / De Grassi pit exit moment, and Button with a faster car battling to pass Schumacher who's car see's twice as wide suddenly
For the most part everyone is having a Sunday afternoon stroll in clear air though
For the most part everyone is having a Sunday afternoon stroll in clear air though
This track is such a dissapointment I can't believe they haven't made any significant changes to it for the better, the last chicane would work if the first corner was changed. The middle part of the track is just a waste of time, they have reprofiled La Caixa more than once and still haven't gotten it right.
Totally forgot about this just turned it on, did Vettel lose his place at the start?