The F1 Thread 2009 Season

This is bullshit. Why can't we just get a simple first second third?

Trulli penalised, then Hamilton and we are all still waiting to see if the Brawn car is illegal and thus 1st and 2nd are in doubt. Maybe they can rengle it so Ferrari get the post race 1 2.

It's just tedius and boring. Why bother watching the race when the places are all sorted out during the week. It's bullshit.

I'm rooting for Button this year in his ilegal car anyway.
 
I think the whole FIA bias against Hamilton is bordering on the Scouse FA thing....

It seems stupid, but maybe Lewis just fecked up?
 
I just don't understand why the FIA have been so remarkably stupid about this.

The radio transcript clearly shows that Mclaren were confused about the situation and seeked the official line to go about it, and a mistake was made.

Instead of making an example of Hamilton, yet again, why don't they just reimburse Trulli with his place and keep the original standings?! All this talk of 'disqualification from the championship' is farcical.
 
Well I hate to mention it but the issue of race has to be brought up, as some have.

Not one driver has been this punished by the FIA for senseless and useless things like Lewie, and everything is punished OTT to the point of dispair.

I could be clutching straws here but hasn't Mosley been caught in this farces of race/religion before?
 
No idea, we can't say for sure that Mosley is against McLaren but there seems to be alot of hate towards the team. A DQ for an infringement he did not even do is quite remarkable, the sensible thing to do would be to reinstate Trulli to 3rd and Hamilton to 4th but too sensible I guess.

I can't help but think the drivers of old like Schumacher, Senna, Prost etc would not be getting these penalties and Hamilton needs to do something about it, he has joined the GPDA which will help abit but he needs to voice up abit instead of hiding behind the McLaren PR machine.
 
I find it difficult to defend Hamilton and McClaren on this. They should have been honest. They deserve to get punished.
 
No idea, we can't say for sure that Mosley is against McLaren but there seems to be alot of hate towards the team. A DQ for an infringement he did not even do is quite remarkable, the sensible thing to do would be to reinstate Trulli to 3rd and Hamilton to 4th but too sensible I guess.

I can't help but think the drivers of old like Schumacher, Senna, Prost etc would not be getting these penalties and Hamilton needs to do something about it, he has joined the GPDA which will help abit but he needs to voice up abit instead of hiding behind the McLaren Page Ranking machine.

The thing is, as spectators of the sport, we, and 95% of people posed this problem, would come up with this simple, sensible solution.

The FIA, and the media come up with these insane solutions to the problems, alienating themselves in the process.
 
I find it difficult to defend Hamilton and McClaren on this. They should have been honest. They deserve to get punished.

But stripped of their season already? Maybe for second / third offence, but a fine should be in order... followed by a ban, and then a years suspension.
 
Ok, looks like we're soon to find out precisely what has gone on, Whitmarsh is gunna speak again after practice. There's been a casualty at McClaren though...

McLaren sporting director Ryan resigns

It is believed that Dave Ryan, the McLaren team's sporting director implicated along with Lewis Hamilton in misleading the FIA stewards in the controversy over who finished third in the Australian grand prix, resigned from his job on Friday morning.

Ryan, who joined the McLaren team in 1974, was seriously criticised by the stewards for the events leading up toHamilton's exclusion from third place in the Australian event.

Nobody at McLaren has yet commented on the issue, but an explanation is expected from team principal martin WhitmarsHh at the FIA press conference at the Sepang circuit after the completion of this morning's practice session.
 
Ferrari 1-2 in second practice. World order has been restored. Get back in your box Button
 
Where did you get that Brad - All the websites have reported he has been suspended. Has not walked.

In a statement released on Friday, McLaren declared:


'This morning, Dave Ryan was suspended from his position as sporting director of the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes team.'


Team principal Martin Whitmarsh said: "In my 20-odd years working for McLaren, I doubt if I've met a more dedicated individual than Davey. He's been an integral part of McLaren since 1974 and has played a crucial role in the team's many world championship successes since that time.


"However, his role in the events of last Sunday, particularly his dealings with the FIA stewards, has caused serious repercussions for the team, for which we apologise. Therefore, I suspended him this morning and he has accepted this."
 
Ok, well it's definitely true, they did mislead the stewards. How incredibly stupid

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45448

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh says that suspended sporting director Dave Ryan was responsible for encouraging Lewis Hamilton to mislead the stewards after the Australian Grand Prix.

Yesterday Hamilton was disqualified from third in Melbourne because he had not given a full account of the team's radio conversations during his incident with Jarno Trulli behind the safety car, and this morning McLaren stalwart Ryan - who had accompanied Lewis to the stewards' hearing - was suspended from his position.

"I think Lewis got out of the car and gave a truthful account of what happened," said Whitmarsh.

"I believe that whilst they were at the stewards, Davey - who had been party to what had happened at Spa (where Hamilton was stripped of his win) and was highly sensitive - in the heat of the moment his judgement was to not give a true account and I think Lewis was then led by that."

Whitmarsh said the team had not yet decided how long Ryan would be suspended or if further action would be taken.

"This is something that literally happened minutes before the first practice session," he explained.

"Davey has been sent home and we need to, during the course of this weekend, understand exactly what happened and make decisions about Davey's future."

When asked if he had considered stepping down from the team boss role he took over from Ron Dennis just one month ago, Whitmarsh said it was too early to make any decisions.

"I think there are a lot of things going through my mind today as you can imagine, as this is happening during an event and we're trying to do the best job we can," he said.

"As a team we've lost someone who was very much a significant member of this organisation and we've got to make sure that we pull together to do the best job that we can this weekend.

"We will reflect on everything that happened over the course of the Australian weekend after this event has finished.

"I don't rule anything in or out.

"We're keen today that we put our hands up and say that there was a serious error of judgement during that process."
 
At a news conference in Malaysia on Friday, Whitmarsh said Ryan had not been "entirely full and truthful with the answers he gave [to the stewards], so we had not alternative but to suspend him".

He added that although Hamilton had also been "not entirely truthful, Davey was the senior member of the team, so he is responsible for what happened".

Whitmarsh said: "He did not set out with a deliberate intention to mislead but during the course of the meeting he was not as clear as he should have been. He made a very serious error of judgement and is paying the consequences of for that."

When even the team are admitting they were misleading in what they said to the stewards, I think it's fair to say Mclaren and Lewis were in the wrong here.
 
Ok, well it's definitely true, they did mislead the stewards. How incredibly stupid

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45448

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh says that suspended sporting director Dave Ryan was responsible for encouraging Lewis Hamilton to mislead the stewards after the Australian Grand Prix.

Yesterday Hamilton was disqualified from third in Melbourne because he had not given a full account of the team's radio conversations during his incident with Jarno Trulli behind the safety car, and this morning McLaren stalwart Ryan - who had accompanied Lewis to the stewards' hearing - was suspended from his position.

"I think Lewis got out of the car and gave a truthful account of what happened," said Whitmarsh.

"I believe that whilst they were at the stewards, Davey - who had been party to what had happened at Spa (where Hamilton was stripped of his win) and was highly sensitive - in the heat of the moment his judgement was to not give a true account and I think Lewis was then led by that."

Whitmarsh said the team had not yet decided how long Ryan would be suspended or if further action would be taken.

"This is something that literally happened minutes before the first practice session," he explained.

"Davey has been sent home and we need to, during the course of this weekend, understand exactly what happened and make decisions about Davey's future."

When asked if he had considered stepping down from the team boss role he took over from Ron Dennis just one month ago, Whitmarsh said it was too early to make any decisions.

"I think there are a lot of things going through my mind today as you can imagine, as this is happening during an event and we're trying to do the best job we can," he said.

"As a team we've lost someone who was very much a significant member of this organisation and we've got to make sure that we pull together to do the best job that we can this weekend.

"We will reflect on everything that happened over the course of the Australian weekend after this event has finished.

"I don't rule anything in or out.

"We're keen today that we put our hands up and say that there was a serious error of judgement during that process."

Well hopefully that puts the matter to bed but you never know.

Frankly talk of season exclusion or more race bans seems way excessive allthough i wouldn't put it past the FIA.

I'd rather just get on with the racing this weekend
 
Well hopefully that puts the matter to bed but you never know.

Frankly talk of season exclusion or more race bans seems way excessive allthough i wouldn't put it past the FIA.

I'd rather just get on with the racing this weekend

Yeh, I think Ecclestone has already commented that there's been punishment enough

Hamilton being led along sounds credible, he wasn't exactly hiding anything in his earlier press interviews. Still, he doesn't have to go along with it... very disappointing. Arguably losing all his points is excessive, but their actions saw another driver lose all his points wrongly, so perhaps it is justifiable

I think he should come out and apologise himself for his part in it, even if he didn't ring lead it. Let a lot of supporters down here
 
Unsportsmanlike contact by McLaren. Dave Ryan is been used as a scapegoat.
 
Hamilton apology

Lewis Hamilton has apologised to the FIA stewards and to his fans after what he labelled as a 'huge mistake' following the Australian Grand Prix.

The Briton was disqualified from the Melbourne race after the stewards deemed he and his McLaren team had lied following an incident with Toyota driver Jarno Trulli.

The incident had led to McLaren suspending sporting director David Ryan, who the team said was responsible for the misleading the stewards.

Hamilton said on Friday that he had no intention to lie to the stewards, and offered an apology to them, to the fans and to the media.

The world champion, who admitted the incident had taken a toll of him, also vowed to never let something like that happen again.

"In Melbourne, I had a great race. As soon as I got out the car I had the television interviews at the back of the garage, and straight away I gave them a good account of what happening during the race," Hamilton told a news conference.

"Straight after that we were requested by the stewards, and while waiting for the stewards I was instructed and misled by my team manager to withhold information, and that is what I did.

"I sincerely apologise to the stewards for wasting their time and for making them look silly. I am very, very sorry for the situation: for my team, for Dave because he has been a good member of the team for many years, and whilst I don't think it was his intention or...he is a good guy.

"I went into the meeting, I had no intention of...I just wanted to tell the story and say what happened. I was misled and that is the way it went.

"I would like to say a big sorry to all my fans who have believed in me, who have supported me for years, who I showed who I am for the past three years, and it is who I am. I am not a liar. I am not a dishonest person. I am a team player.

"Every time I have been informed to do something I have done it. This time I realise it was a huge mistake and I am learning from it. It has taken a huge toll on me.

"I apologise to you guys, I didn't speak to you yesterday, but there was a lot of take in and a lot to deal with. I am here to apologise to everyone and I assure you it won't happen again."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74202

Fair play for the apology but the finger pointing from McLaren and Hamilton stinks a bit to be honest.

Some other teams around the paddock are a bit shocked by it
 
Hamilton apology

Lewis Hamilton has apologised to the FIA stewards and to his fans after what he labelled as a 'huge mistake' following the Australian Grand Prix.

The Briton was disqualified from the Melbourne race after the stewards deemed he and his McLaren team had lied following an incident with Toyota driver Jarno Trulli.

The incident had led to McLaren suspending sporting director David Ryan, who the team said was responsible for the misleading the stewards.

Hamilton said on Friday that he had no intention to lie to the stewards, and offered an apology to them, to the fans and to the media.

The world champion, who admitted the incident had taken a toll of him, also vowed to never let something like that happen again.

"In Melbourne, I had a great race. As soon as I got out the car I had the television interviews at the back of the garage, and straight away I gave them a good account of what happening during the race," Hamilton told a news conference.

"Straight after that we were requested by the stewards, and while waiting for the stewards I was instructed and misled by my team manager to withhold information, and that is what I did.

"I sincerely apologise to the stewards for wasting their time and for making them look silly. I am very, very sorry for the situation: for my team, for Dave because he has been a good member of the team for many years, and whilst I don't think it was his intention or...he is a good guy.

"I went into the meeting, I had no intention of...I just wanted to tell the story and say what happened. I was misled and that is the way it went.

"I would like to say a big sorry to all my fans who have believed in me, who have supported me for years, who I showed who I am for the past three years, and it is who I am. I am not a liar. I am not a dishonest person. I am a team player.

"Every time I have been informed to do something I have done it. This time I realise it was a huge mistake and I am learning from it. It has taken a huge toll on me.

"I apologise to you guys, I didn't speak to you yesterday, but there was a lot of take in and a lot to deal with. I am here to apologise to everyone and I assure you it won't happen again."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74202

Fair play for the apology but the finger pointing from McLaren and Hamilton stinks a bit to be honest.

Some other teams around the paddock are a bit shocked by it

Whoever told him to do that deserves to lose their job, be it that Ryan guy or anyone else.

This should be laid to rest now, get on with this weekend's racing.
 
Fair enough, wanted him to apologise and he has done. He's daft, but at the same time I can understand his position, being told to do something by an experienced member of his team. He should have had the bollocks to tell him where to go, perhaps we forget how young he is. He still makes silly immature mistakes on the track at times, no surprise it happens off the track too

What was this Ryan guy thinking? Ludicrous. He can't have any complaints about his suspension, should know much better

Hopefully that's the end of it. Very hard lesson for Hamilton to learn. He's semi vindicated all those that have talked bollocks about him in the past with this. Just has to get his head down now and get on with it. A great drive in a very uncompetitive car has been lost in all this
 
Tis a quiet day in work and quite frankly the likes of autosport or PF1 forums have become intolerable with the amount of threads being started on it.

Any shouts for pole tomorrow? After Australia i would've thought either of the Brawns were a shoe-in but now not so sure. I'm happy to see Ferrari looking stronger but with KERS i'm not sure whether its worth it for them to take a lap or 2 of extra fuel to settle for the second row and try overtake from the start.Button has got to be favourite for it, Barrichello will have to take a 5 place grid penalty for changing his gearbox and the Williams are also looking very strong.

Even McLaren look to be a lot stronger than they we're in Australia but i don't think they're in contention for pole to be honest
 
I did say that this mclaren conspiracy theory was a bit silly. McLaren and Hamilton are stupid, and have been punished.

I do feel some sympathy for Lewis, he was after all doing as he was advised by his boss/bosses. Fingers crossed there will be no further punishments.

Also i would expect Truli hates Hamilton's guts now.
 
I did say that this mclaren conspiracy theory was a bit silly. McLaren and Hamilton are stupid, and have been punished.

In this case, yes

You need to ask yourself how this whole thing came about though. It's because Hamilton and McClaren where on eggshells over Trulli going off the track, knowing full well how the FIA like to treat them if they can possibly get involved

I don't think it's anti-McClaren as such, albeit it Mosley is known to loathe them and Dennis. It's a Ferrari favouring, the preferential treatment they've had for years. Obviously when McClaren are their main rivals, they cop it

But it seems justice has been done this time. And yeh, wouldn't blame Trulli for giving Hamilton a juicy left hook behind closed doors!
 
In this case, yes

You need to ask yourself how this whole thing came about though. It's because Hamilton and McClaren where on eggshells over Trulli going off the track, knowing full well how the FIA like to treat them if they can possibly get involved

I don't think it's anti-McClaren as such, albeit it Mosley is known to loathe them and Dennis. It's a Ferrari favouring, the preferential treatment they've had for years. Obviously when McClaren are their main rivals, they cop it

But it seems justice has been done this time. And yeh, wouldn't blame Trulli for giving Hamilton a juicy left hook behind closed doors!

Very good point, it was clearly a worry shown by the radio transcript. No need to give the FIA an excuse though...
 
Good article, by Michael Atherton of all people!

Mike Atherton on his Lewis Hamilton moment

atherton_385x185_515070a.jpg


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/mike_atherton/article6031853.ece

The thing about sport is that it is just about the most powerful truth serum there is. Young sportsmen find themselves surrounded by all kinds of helpers, from agents to PR executives, all of whom are on hand to try to polish a certain image and act as a buffer between the sportsman as he is and the sportsman as others would like to see him. But out in the arena, you are on your own, every move watched by dozens of intrusive cameras and millions of prying eyes. Sport delivers, time and again, a brutal truth and a sportsman's essential nature will out - like it or not.

There have been enough examples already in Lewis Hamilton's brief career to know that behind the polished smiles, the PR guff and the copy-approved interviews is a ruthless operator. His long-running feud with Fernando Alonso, which included wilfully overriding team orders in Hungary in 2007, should have told us everything we needed to know about him.

Those who line up to crucify Hamilton are doing so not because he has failed to live up to his own standards but because he has failed to live up to the expectations of others that have been created for him by a pushy father, an agency keen to milk the holy cow for all it is worth and a Formula One team for whom disappointment is measured in millions of dollars rather than the tarnishing of an image. Everything that Hamilton has done on the racetrack has projected a different image, so the reaction to the events in Australia says more about our gullibility than it does about him.

What is it with the British and our sportsmen? It is a curious nation that falls in love with Andrew Flintoff and despises Kevin Pietersen. One, a good cricketer who has produced the odd great moment, whose popularity soared after a post-match hug with an opponent and didn't diminish despite a whitewash in Australia and an episode with a pedalo; the other a great cricketer, whose preparations are never less than perfect, but who is damned for a few ill-chosen comments and a perception that, like Hamilton, he puts himself before the rest. But bat - or wheel - in hand, you're on your own so you'd better make damn well sure that you are prepared for everything that will be thrown your way.

There is a deeply moral thread running through our attitudes to our sportsmen. It is not enough to win or to try to win, everything must be seen to be completely above board as well, even though everybody who has played sport knows that rules, laws or conventions are pushed to the limit and often beyond. This morality is a hangover from the days of empire, when sport was seen as essential to the building of moral character, which was, in turn, seen as essential to empire-building. The biggest crime of all is not losing but not playing fair.

For a short period in 1994, accused of ball-tampering and fined, not for ball-tampering, but for lying to the match referee, I felt exactly how Hamilton is feeling right now: embarrassed, hurt, foolish, hunted and on my own. There are some similarities between the episodes: an initial mistake - Hamilton allowing Jarno Trulli to pass, me keeping one side of the ball dry by using dust from an old pitch; the confession - Hamilton in an immediate post-match interview, me in the dressing-room at teatime; then the panic - how do we get out of this one?; the cover-up - Hamilton to the stewards, me to Peter Burge, the match referee; the punishment and then the press conference.

The last bit was probably the hardest. I can remember, as if it were yesterday, the small chamber in the inner sanctum at Lord's that doubled for the press conference room on that sweaty, humid Sunday evening 15 years ago. What I didn't know then, amazingly because nobody had bothered to tell me, was that the conference was going out live and what theatre it must have been to those watching: a young, hitherto untarnished sportsman as uncomfortable as he could have possibly been, with Jonathan Agnew clambering all over me and Fleet Street lapping it up.

It was an episode that had a permanent effect on me. Pursued for two weeks afterwards with the kind of intrusion usually reserved for corrupt politicians, I was never trusting or open in front of the media again. I didn't worry about the effect on my image - unlike the Hamilton camp now, by all accounts - because I had, in my own mind, no image to speak of at all, or certainly not one that had been carefully manicured. But I knew that it would be a permanent stain on my career and an inevitable chapter in my sporting obituary.

Do I worry about that now? Not one bit. Nor should Hamilton because there is nothing he can do about it. I look back now at an immature 26-year old who made a mistake (albeit hardly a heinous one), who paid a small penalty in financial terms but a bigger one as regards reputation, who then endured some ferocious criticism, handled it badly and went and scored 99 in his next Test innings under extreme pressure. I learnt a lot about myself during those two weeks.

Given a chance to reflect, Hamilton will have learnt a lot about himself this week, too. And us? The Australian Grand Prix told us nothing we did not already know about him if we had bothered to look carefully enough at his actions on the track and beyond the spin. It told us, once again, that he is a genius of a driver and that he is a flawed human being. It is only the first bit that sets him apart from the rest of humanity.

Mike Atherton: the great survivor

Mike Atherton, captaining England for the eleventh time in a Test match, was caught on camera apparently applying a substance from his pocket to the ball on July 23, 1994, the third day of the first Test against South Africa at Lord's. He was summoned that evening to appear before Peter Burge, the Australian match referee.

At the time, Law 42.5 stated: “No one shall rub the ball on the ground, or use any artificial substance, or take any other action to alter the condition of the ball.” Atherton told Burge that he had been drying his fingers in his pocket, but did not acknowledge that he had used dirt to do so.

He was subsequently fined £2,000 by Ray Illingworth, the England manager, half for failing to tell the whole truth to the match referee and half for using dirt to dry his fingers. Burge later said that if he had known that Atherton was using dirt in his attempts to maintain the condition of the ball, he would have suspended the England captain for two matches. Atherton went on to lead England a further 43 times.

Words by John Westerby

Where it all went wrong

The sequence of events that put Lewis Hamilton in the dock began with a perfectly legitimate manoeuvre during the Australian Grand Prix on Sunday

- Three laps from the end of the race in Melbourne, with the safety car out, Jarno Trulli’s Toyota briefly left the track and Hamilton moved ahead of the Italian from fourth into third place.

- Although no overtaking is permitted behind the safety car, this did not count because Trulli had left the track.

- Hamilton told his team that Trulli had run wide but McLaren Mercedes, unable to confirm this with the stewards and concerned that they might be penalised, ordered Hamilton to cede third place to Trulli, which he did.

- Hamilton failed to tell the stewards this in the subsequent inquiry, giving them the impression that Trulli had overtaken him under the safety car. They punished Trulli with a 25sec penalty, dropping him to twelfth and promoting Hamilton to third.

- The deception became apparent when the McLaren radio transmissions were published, revealing that Hamilton was ordered to give way. The stewards threw Hamilton out of the race and reinstated Trulli.
 
So the status quo haven't really returned then. Come on Button! Hamilton has no chance this season (thanks FIA!).
 
The Brawn and Button combination really works, the car is outstanding but Button is driving on top top form as well, I will wait until they release the car weights but I think Trulli is a lighter and weather permitting Button has another great chance.
 
Trulli got very close to Buttons pretty astonishing time, I reckon he must be quite a bit lighter

Great job by Jenson. Making those who wrote him off before look a little foolish. He's got the right car right now, and he's showing he can drive it. If things do 'return to normal', might be some food for thought for Ferrari or McClaren?
 
What do you guys make of the comments Jordan and Coulthard made about Hamilton's future at Mclaren after the Australia affaire? Jordan almost seemed to say that Hamilton will walk out in the near future. Seems highly unlikely to me.
 
Hamilton and McLaren have lost that little bit of magic they had for his first 2 seasons, but driving a bad car does wonders for walking around with a sullen look on your face. I think in time they will be fine, I never thought Hamilton would spend his career at McLaren anyway but I still dont think we will see him walk away from that team for some time.
 
Season is too early anyway to call on whether or not a driver will stay in a team. Shouldn't be surprised if both sort their issues out sooner or later.
 
Ron Dennis leaving is probably a massive deal for Hamiliton. He was like a 2nd father to him. So I can imagine that Hamiliton's relationship with McClaren has faded a little since the summer.

Its a great start to the season though. All the work that Red Bull/Toyota and Brawn(Honda) did last season seems to have paid off. Massa :lol:
 
I didnt know Ron Dennis left to be honest...

I read an article saying that Honda had sacrificed performance for most of last season to make this seasons car good, the reason why Braun went for the management buyout. Equally, Mclaren and Ferrari fighting it out to the death is a real reason for their poor performance so far this season.