Nuts - 
In fairness Hamilton should have been more sportsman like.
In fairness Hamilton should have been more sportsman like.
The F1 Thread 2009 Season
- Thread starter Leg-End
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
In a new development, the FIA have anounced a link-up with the English FA. As part of the new intitaive, everytime Lewis Hamilton overtakes, Patrice Evra will be banned for a match, and everytime United score, Mclaren will be deducted all points from the previous GP.
More sportsman like than pulling over and giving Trulli the place back?
No - Hamilton said over his Radio he could overtake. Why then did he not say so before all this instead of letting it sit. I like Hamilton but a spade's a spade.
So does he get any championship points?
feck me, even 4th was a good result from that weekend, why jeapordise it...
Got to say Lewis and Mclaren feck up on this one. I don't think the FIA are against Lewis they were harsh on Trulli and Vettel.
Soooo past caring any more, it's all pathetic and bent as fuq, including McLaren.
Bring on the MotoGP, but bring back Julian, Toby and Randy and Eurospurt. Steve Parrish makes me want to put a plastic bag over my head and neck a handful of warfarin.
Starting early this year arnt they, who wants a wager on the amount of penalties dished out to Hamilton this season?
But seriously if McLaren mislead then they only have themselves to blame.
But seriously if McLaren mislead then they only have themselves to blame.
But everybody knew (well, I'm hardly some kind of insider!) that Hamilton let him back past, due to quite naturally shitting himself that the FIA would take any opportunity to penalise him, as per Belgium(?) last year. It wasn't a secret, it's not like they ever pretended that Hamilton was racing him.
I don't get what he's been done for - he sacrificed a place for the security of not being penalised afterwards, if anything. It's not like McLaren then told the Stewards to penalise Trulli.
The result should stand as they actually finished... that would not only be fair, but have the added bonus of letting the sport regain some crediility. Talking of which, is their a date set for when they disqualify Brawn, Williams and Toyota on appeal over the difusers?
racistNo, they proved their nutrality time and again last season
I mean this year I just think there being harsh on everyone.
Well, there's only been on race, so I think we'll have a better view in a few months. Personally I see no reason to presume they've changed from last year. By the time they got desperate and started penalising drivers for being rammed by Massa coming out of the pits, it was all getting a bit silly...
At the first hearing following the Australian Grand Prix the Stewards did not have the benefit of the radio exchanges between driver No 1 Lewis Hamilton and his Team Vodafone McLaren Mercedes nor did they have access to the comments to the Media given by Lewis Hamilton immediately after the end of the race.
From the video recordings available to the Stewards during the hearing it appeared that Jarno Trulli's car left the track and car No 1 moved into third place. It then appeared that Trulli overtook Hamilton to regain third place, which at the time was prohibited as it was during the Safety Car period.
During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake.
Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.
The new elements presented to the Stewards several days after the 2009 Australian Grand Prix which led to the reconvened Stewards Meeting clearly show that:
a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.
b. Furthermore, the radio exchanges between the driver and the Team contain two explicit orders from the Team to let the Toyota pass.
The Stewards, having learned about the radio exchanges and the Media interview, felt strongly that they had been misled by the driver and his Team Manager which led to Jarno Trulli being unfairly penalised and Lewis Hamilton gaining third place.
I never saw this race as i was away that weekend....but from this statement it looks like Hamilton did lie to the Stewards.
How they didn't listen to the team radio straight after the race is ridiculous mind
From the video recordings available to the Stewards during the hearing it appeared that Jarno Trulli's car left the track and car No 1 moved into third place. It then appeared that Trulli overtook Hamilton to regain third place, which at the time was prohibited as it was during the Safety Car period.
During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake.
Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.
The new elements presented to the Stewards several days after the 2009 Australian Grand Prix which led to the reconvened Stewards Meeting clearly show that:
a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.
b. Furthermore, the radio exchanges between the driver and the Team contain two explicit orders from the Team to let the Toyota pass.
The Stewards, having learned about the radio exchanges and the Media interview, felt strongly that they had been misled by the driver and his Team Manager which led to Jarno Trulli being unfairly penalised and Lewis Hamilton gaining third place.
I never saw this race as i was away that weekend....but from this statement it looks like Hamilton did lie to the Stewards.
How they didn't listen to the team radio straight after the race is ridiculous mind
Well that's bizarre. Need to hear what McClaren and Hamilton have to say about it. Why would they possibly lie for the sake of a point? If they have, well it's just utter stupidity, and I guess they're getting what they deserve
Something just doesn't add up though. And yeh I knew I heard someone say last weekend that Hamilton had let Trulli through. It was Hamilton!!! He said it. That's why the Trulli punishment seemed bizarrely harsh
This is either the worst lie ever, or a weird misunderstanding
Something just doesn't add up though. And yeh I knew I heard someone say last weekend that Hamilton had let Trulli through. It was Hamilton!!! He said it. That's why the Trulli punishment seemed bizarrely harsh
This is either the worst lie ever, or a weird misunderstanding
Ok, what?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/mo...aren-deny-lying/2009/04/02/1238261727520.html
Whitmarsh said the team would not appeal but insisted Hamilton did nothing wrong.
"Obviously we are disappointed by what happened," he said.
"Lewis didn't do anything abnormal and it was clear Trulli shouldn't have passed him. But we have to accept the decision."
He said there was no question of Hamilton lying.
"There is no implication that Lewis lied to the stewards. I don't know what they meant, but I understand there was a belief the team was not explicit enough about the radio conversation," he said.
"What they believe is that the omission of the information about the radio communication between the team was withheld and that is misleading.
"As you can imagine Lewis is very disappointed. It's a harsh decision but experience had told us that you have to accept these decisions."
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So Hamilton didn't lie, but the team aren't appealing because they have to accept the decision? Eh? It seems the penalty is entirely because he lied, so if he hasn't, why won't they appeal?
I really don't get this
http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/mo...aren-deny-lying/2009/04/02/1238261727520.html
Whitmarsh said the team would not appeal but insisted Hamilton did nothing wrong.
"Obviously we are disappointed by what happened," he said.
"Lewis didn't do anything abnormal and it was clear Trulli shouldn't have passed him. But we have to accept the decision."
He said there was no question of Hamilton lying.
"There is no implication that Lewis lied to the stewards. I don't know what they meant, but I understand there was a belief the team was not explicit enough about the radio conversation," he said.
"What they believe is that the omission of the information about the radio communication between the team was withheld and that is misleading.
"As you can imagine Lewis is very disappointed. It's a harsh decision but experience had told us that you have to accept these decisions."
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So Hamilton didn't lie, but the team aren't appealing because they have to accept the decision? Eh? It seems the penalty is entirely because he lied, so if he hasn't, why won't they appeal?
I really don't get this
Moreover, why would they lie about this when
a) They had already admited it.
b) They knew full well that the stewards had access to their radio conversations.
c) It's obvious on the tv replays that Hamilton slows down and lets him past.
As I said, the whole world knew that he'd let him past... there was never any chance of hiding this, and very little to gain from it!
I do understand it and its an unenviable position that Mclaren were in. Basically they did the right thing in letting trulli pass but then it looked like they had done it to intentionally get toyota DQed (which makes no sense as they'd have got the third place anyway as toyota would have had to let them through, so hence it wasn't intentional on mclaren's part). When they realised HOW what they had done looked, they withheld the information (not saying its right but I understand why they did it). The worst lewis should have got was to be given 4th after this.
This sport if a complete farce, if fans started not tuning it anymore, the FIA will learn. I'm seriously thinking about not watching this crap anymore.
the FIA are worse than Fifa, UEFA and The FA all together
might aswell not watch races anymore and just wait a few weeks to see who actually finished where
might aswell not watch races anymore and just wait a few weeks to see who actually finished where
Heres the radio chat between Lewis and Mclaren http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74159
Seriously think its time for a major overall at the FIA. They dont half make a mockery of F1.
Seriously think its time for a major overall at the FIA. They dont half make a mockery of F1.
Well no I don't think it's that. For a start they're saying Hamilton lied to them during the investigation. Which just seems bizarre given he'd already told all of us on TV what had happened
Second, that transcript makes it look entirely like they just wanted to make sure they played things by the book. They told Hamilton to overtake, then to hold ground (thinking he hadn't overtaken yet), and continually said they were looking into it
This whole thing just makes so little sense. I don't quite understand here why Hamilton has to lose all his points over it? Are we to start having lie detector tests after each race, and if you don't recall everything 100% accurately, you lose all your points?
It gets better...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5h5cuvbFuI-E9LZe-4duDrSu9HO1g
Lewis Hamilton faces the threat of suspension or disqualification from the Formula One world championship after being caught lying to FIA race stewards.
Just four days after one of the drives of his career to finish third in Sunday's Australian Grand Prix, Hamilton was on Thursday excluded from the classification.
Hamilton was elevated from fourth to third by the stewards due to Jarno Trulli being handed a 25-second penalty for passing the reigning world champion behind the safety car late on. But in the light of further evidence, notably radio transmissions between Hamilton and the pit wall, and in an interview given by the 24-year-old soon after race, he has been caught out.
Hamilton and McLaren have been accused of acting "in a manner prejudicial to the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the stewards" at the hearing on Sunday.
In re-opening the investigation, stewards at a further hearing in Malaysia ahead of Sunday's race at the Sepang circuit have taken the appropriate sanction against Hamilton they felt was necessary.
However, the situation contravenes the International Sporting Code and is viewed as so grave that the FIA have it within their power to pursue the matter further.
A FIA spokesperson confirmed: "Given the seriousness of this matter, we cannot rule out further action at this stage."
As Hamilton has been excluded from the race at Melbourne's Albert Park, should motor sport's world governing body take up the case, only two additional punishments are open to them.
One would be to suspend Hamilton from a further race or races, or alternatively they could disqualify him from the championship altogether.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5h5cuvbFuI-E9LZe-4duDrSu9HO1g
Lewis Hamilton faces the threat of suspension or disqualification from the Formula One world championship after being caught lying to FIA race stewards.
Just four days after one of the drives of his career to finish third in Sunday's Australian Grand Prix, Hamilton was on Thursday excluded from the classification.
Hamilton was elevated from fourth to third by the stewards due to Jarno Trulli being handed a 25-second penalty for passing the reigning world champion behind the safety car late on. But in the light of further evidence, notably radio transmissions between Hamilton and the pit wall, and in an interview given by the 24-year-old soon after race, he has been caught out.
Hamilton and McLaren have been accused of acting "in a manner prejudicial to the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the stewards" at the hearing on Sunday.
In re-opening the investigation, stewards at a further hearing in Malaysia ahead of Sunday's race at the Sepang circuit have taken the appropriate sanction against Hamilton they felt was necessary.
However, the situation contravenes the International Sporting Code and is viewed as so grave that the FIA have it within their power to pursue the matter further.
A FIA spokesperson confirmed: "Given the seriousness of this matter, we cannot rule out further action at this stage."
As Hamilton has been excluded from the race at Melbourne's Albert Park, should motor sport's world governing body take up the case, only two additional punishments are open to them.
One would be to suspend Hamilton from a further race or races, or alternatively they could disqualify him from the championship altogether.
This is fecking hilarious. The FIA will do anything - absolutely anything - to stop Hamilton winning.
McLaren don't help themselves whatsoever, but really, this anti-hamilton bias has got to stop. There would have been no harm in punishing the teams as 'you're back to the points as they stood when you finished the race' rather than 'you lied, tut tut, you're not racing anymore, lardeeda. Ferrari win yey yey.'
McLaren don't help themselves whatsoever, but really, this anti-hamilton bias has got to stop. There would have been no harm in punishing the teams as 'you're back to the points as they stood when you finished the race' rather than 'you lied, tut tut, you're not racing anymore, lardeeda. Ferrari win yey yey.'
If they manage that I will be very surprised but I would not put it past them.I was giving the benifit of the doubt to the FIA on this one until they started this stupid agenda against McLaren again. They will drive Lewis away at this rate and good luck to him, its obviously his dream to be an F1 World Champion and now he is one, go and wipe the floor with everyone in America or do Le Mans or something, he doesn't need this.
I knew this was too good to be true.
fecking hell
fecking hell
I agree with the sentiments here... somebody needs to organise a formal boycott.
I'm sure there's plenty of Italians and Brazillians who think it's all great, but lets see how Bernie and his cronies like it when they lose the majority of their UK TV audience for a race or two.
All this on top of Bernie & Co's ridiculous agenda to push towards everybody driving the same car (not to mention the "most race wins wins the championship" farce) makes me think even more it's time the teams broke away. When will he realise that he is nothing without them?
I'm sure there's plenty of Italians and Brazillians who think it's all great, but lets see how Bernie and his cronies like it when they lose the majority of their UK TV audience for a race or two.
All this on top of Bernie & Co's ridiculous agenda to push towards everybody driving the same car (not to mention the "most race wins wins the championship" farce) makes me think even more it's time the teams broke away. When will he realise that he is nothing without them?
mosley just cant wait to drive this young,talented blackman out of his beloved F1.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74159
So mclaren haven't lied, heck they said they wanted to do it by the book! They tell him to allow the toyota through but then straight away retract it and tell him to stay ahead while they get it cleared up with Charlie. This is the last time I'm watching this farce, how can anyone take this seriously. A boycott is the best thing to do.
OK
So the issue is:
- Lewis Passed Trulli, who went off the track, ford 3rd.
- Was he not supposed to?
- If he could, he was offering the position back in a show of sportsmanship?
- After the race he said there was no call to pass, which is true to an extent is it not?
- The FIA clamied he's lying about this?
- Confusion and uncertainty fill my veins, and fury has invaded emotions.
So the issue is:
- Lewis Passed Trulli, who went off the track, ford 3rd.
- Was he not supposed to?
- If he could, he was offering the position back in a show of sportsmanship?
- After the race he said there was no call to pass, which is true to an extent is it not?
- The FIA clamied he's lying about this?
- Confusion and uncertainty fill my veins, and fury has invaded emotions.
The issue is down to him apparently denying it, This makes no sense as toyota WOULD OF HAD to let him pass anyway, so it really makes no difference. I denied before, that all these decisions against him was due to his race but stuff like this will only fuel those theories.
As A1DAN has said, if we start boycotting the sport they'll have to be more fair. I certainly am not watching the next few races, this should be respected as a sport, its a farce!
I think Lewis was fairly stupid about this. He clearly did let him past, and then, when asked if he let him past he said no, to get Trulli in trouble, and to gain an extra point. No matter the confusion during the race, he should have just held his hands up and said yes, I let him pass because I wasn't sure of the ruling.
That's what I inferred too. Why is everyone else in this thread making it seem like it's entirely the FIA's fault? Looks like Hamilton and Mclaren have fecked up.
The point is theres no advantage in saying that he didn't let Trulli past. They'd always find out, it sounds more like miscommunication or even mis quoting by the media. His main title rivals (Ferrari's) got 0 points. They didn't expect to get any, so getting a 4th was excellent for them. Theres no need for McClaren to push for 3rd.
Why this wasn't brought up a few hours after the race is beyond me. Its fairly obvious that the FIA should check all radio transmitions of said incident straight away.
As a great man once said: "Is it cause I is black?"
Why this wasn't brought up a few hours after the race is beyond me. Its fairly obvious that the FIA should check all radio transmitions of said incident straight away.
As a great man once said: "Is it cause I is black?"
It wasn't misquoting in the media, I heard his interview. He was clear what happened, he let Trulli through. Must say that's why I thought Trulli's punishment was bizarrely harsh
If Hamilton has been stupid enough to say one thing in public, and another to the stewards... but given McClaren have backed him in saying he hasn't told any fibs, I just don't understand the situation
I also don't see why he has to lose all his points from the last race for whatever has happened. It's like saying ahh, well Ronaldo dived in that last game, so United have to forfeit the 3 points they took
Racist bastards. What a fecking farce F1 is.
Well that's exactly what he's been charged with, and Mclaren aren't arguing it, although they've been careful to word it "he didn't lie" rather than "he failed to tell them what he told everyone else".