I'm happy for Rubins I like him allot as a driver even though his little rants during the season were silly. Good on Kimi there opens the champagne drinks it then sprays it over the crowd.
The F1 Thread 2009 Season
- Thread starter Leg-End
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Nothing cruel about it mate, all his own doing. Cruel would be if someone had punted him off, it was just daft, he was never getting past Jenson.
Good drives from Jens and Rubens, I still fancy Jens for the WDC.
I really want barichello to win. If anyone in F1 deserves to win a championship, its him.
Some would say daft some would say hes not in the championship might as well push for second.
Complete agree on that, although i would have chose someone other than Massa to compare against tbh.
Come again?
Hasn't Massa being the one who always pushes even when there's no hope of getting past a fellow driver? I'd say his more competitive than Hamilton and Raikkonen. Raikkonen has a tencity to fall into a "comfort zone", he can push for one lap (thus getting a lot of fastest laps in the past), but he doesn't bother with it if he's not right up there, while Hamilton is just plain stupid at times (see today).
He was a second behind with a lap to go, he was never gong to make that up AND get past Jenson. I don't have a problem with pushing but to go over the limit on that part of the track he's clearly pushing too hard and it's a pretty stupid mistake really, you can say he's not lost anything but he has - Macca are now 15 points behind Ferrari in the WCC.
I disagree, Raikkonen is a driver who is renowned for his pushing on the laps when required, he did it at McLaren for years . I've no idea where you get this 'comfort zone' concept from, maybe because he's too laid back?
Hamilton i think was pushing too hard on the last lap, but he knew what he can do in the car & was proving that even with an inferior car on the grid (in comparison to the Brawn), he could consistently get time from Button.
However hindsight is a wonderful thing, i don't think anyone can knock him for trying. Certainly makes the closing stages more entertaining.
did you just praise Hamilton? I cant criticise the guy, fair play for trying, im sure he will learn from this
Raikkonnen > Massa
I for one hope that Kimi has one of the Ferrari seats next year, be it with Massa or Alonso as a teammate.
I for one hope that Kimi has one of the Ferrari seats next year, be it with Massa or Alonso as a teammate.
Lotus will return to F1 in 2010
Lotus are to return to Formula 1 next season for the first time since 1994.
They have been awarded the final grid spot and join Campos GP, Manor and US F1 as one of four new teams for 2010.
The FIA has given current team BMW Sauber "14th place" for 2010, meaning they are now first reserves to fill any vacancy on the grid should one arise.
However, motorsport's governing body says it will "consult urgently" with the 10 existing teams to expand the grid from 13 to 14 teams for 2010.
"The FIA believes that a good case can be made for expanding the grid to 14 teams," read an FIA statement released on Tuesday.
"It will be consulting urgently with the existing teams regarding the introduction of an appropriate rule change to expand the grid to 28 cars in time for the first Grand Prix in 2010."
Just three hours after the Lotus return was confirmed by the FIA on Tuesday, BMW Sauber revealed Swiss-based Qadbak Investments had agreed to buy its team.
The German car manufacturer, which took over Sauber in 2005, had said it would withdraw from F1 at the end of July, citing "current developments in motorsport" as the reason for their decision.
BMW was the second major manufacturer to announce it was leaving the sport after Honda's withdrawal eight months earlier.
But the FIA said it had received an "impressive application" from the team despite the uncertainties over its future ownership.
Moss glad to see return of Lotus
The organisation behind the new Lotus team have bought the rights to the name Team Lotus - which competed in F1 from 1958 through to 1994 - and have been awarded BMW's place, also pushing out Spanish outfit Epsilon Euskadi, following an intensive selection and due diligence process conducted by the FIA.
The team won seven constructors' crowns and six drivers' championships, including wins by Jim Clark and Graham Hill, during their golden era in the 1960s and '70s.
Three-time world champion, the late Ayrton Senna, drove for Lotus for three seasons between 1985 and 1987 - although the team enjoyed limited success during that period.
In its new incarnation the team is a partnership between the Malaysian Government and a consortium of Malaysian entrepreneurs and is being led by team principal Tony Fernandes, the founder of the Malaysian-based Tune Group, which owns Air Asia airline.
Senna wins the 1986 Spanish GP in a Lotus
Mike Gascoyne - who has 20 years experience in the sport after working with Jordan, Renault, Toyota, and most recently Force India - returns to F1 as the team's technical director.
The team will be initially based in Norfolk, though its future design, research and development, manufacturing and technical centre will be purpose built at Malaysia's Sepang International circuit.
Their withdrawal from F1 in 1994 was down to financial pressures, but Lotus remains the fourth most successful constructor of all time.
BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Lotus will return to F1 in 2010
Lotus are to return to Formula 1 next season for the first time since 1994.
They have been awarded the final grid spot and join Campos GP, Manor and US F1 as one of four new teams for 2010.
The FIA has given current team BMW Sauber "14th place" for 2010, meaning they are now first reserves to fill any vacancy on the grid should one arise.
However, motorsport's governing body says it will "consult urgently" with the 10 existing teams to expand the grid from 13 to 14 teams for 2010.
"The FIA believes that a good case can be made for expanding the grid to 14 teams," read an FIA statement released on Tuesday.
"It will be consulting urgently with the existing teams regarding the introduction of an appropriate rule change to expand the grid to 28 cars in time for the first Grand Prix in 2010."
Just three hours after the Lotus return was confirmed by the FIA on Tuesday, BMW Sauber revealed Swiss-based Qadbak Investments had agreed to buy its team.
The German car manufacturer, which took over Sauber in 2005, had said it would withdraw from F1 at the end of July, citing "current developments in motorsport" as the reason for their decision.
BMW was the second major manufacturer to announce it was leaving the sport after Honda's withdrawal eight months earlier.
But the FIA said it had received an "impressive application" from the team despite the uncertainties over its future ownership.
Moss glad to see return of Lotus
The organisation behind the new Lotus team have bought the rights to the name Team Lotus - which competed in F1 from 1958 through to 1994 - and have been awarded BMW's place, also pushing out Spanish outfit Epsilon Euskadi, following an intensive selection and due diligence process conducted by the FIA.
The team won seven constructors' crowns and six drivers' championships, including wins by Jim Clark and Graham Hill, during their golden era in the 1960s and '70s.
Three-time world champion, the late Ayrton Senna, drove for Lotus for three seasons between 1985 and 1987 - although the team enjoyed limited success during that period.
In its new incarnation the team is a partnership between the Malaysian Government and a consortium of Malaysian entrepreneurs and is being led by team principal Tony Fernandes, the founder of the Malaysian-based Tune Group, which owns Air Asia airline.
Senna wins the 1986 Spanish GP in a Lotus
Mike Gascoyne - who has 20 years experience in the sport after working with Jordan, Renault, Toyota, and most recently Force India - returns to F1 as the team's technical director.
The team will be initially based in Norfolk, though its future design, research and development, manufacturing and technical centre will be purpose built at Malaysia's Sepang International circuit.
Their withdrawal from F1 in 1994 was down to financial pressures, but Lotus remains the fourth most successful constructor of all time.
BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Lotus will return to F1 in 2010
The times reveals a transcript of the pit wall radio conversations during Singapore relating to the Piquet crash.
‘Nelson Piquet Jr’s had a crash. It’s huge. Is he all right? Is he all right?’ - Times Online
Also, Symonds interview with the FIA has been leaked, as per Autosport:
autosport.com - F1 News: Transcript of Pat Symonds' FIA interview
I guess we'll see what comes of next Monday's hearing!
‘Nelson Piquet Jr’s had a crash. It’s huge. Is he all right? Is he all right?’ - Times Online
Also, Symonds interview with the FIA has been leaked, as per Autosport:
autosport.com - F1 News: Transcript of Pat Symonds' FIA interview
I guess we'll see what comes of next Monday's hearing!
From that radio transcript it doesn't bode well for Renault.
What needs to be established from that is whether Symonds & Piquet were working alone and Briatore was none the wiser, given his swearing at Piquet on the transmission would suggest it was a shock to him crashing.
Either way I can't see them getting out of this one.
What needs to be established from that is whether Symonds & Piquet were working alone and Briatore was none the wiser, given his swearing at Piquet on the transmission would suggest it was a shock to him crashing.
Either way I can't see them getting out of this one.
Symonds comes across not very well in both the transcripts and interview, Briatore comes across as a knobend of a team boss.
He pointed to that himself as if it was proof of his innocence, not difficult to feign annoyance though is it? I mean if you had played a part in a plan like that you'd make a point of creating the appearance you didn't see it coming.
I find it impossible to believe that if this was planned Flavio didn't know about it.
Autosport said:
In a story about Rubens taking advise from Massa, he says this about Singapore; I hope this doesn't mean that we won't be seeing sparks from the back of the cars, that looked well cool last year
Wow
Renault accept guilt
Briatore out
Lying cheating bastards, what a bunch of feckers
Renault accept guilt
Briatore out
Lying cheating bastards, what a bunch of feckers
So it’s true then, they actually got Piquet to crash.
Briatore and Symmonds are sacked, Renault accept guilt.
Rumour is that Ecclestone is desperate for Renault to stay in F1 and a deal has been done between F1, the FIA and Renault.
Briatore and Symmonds are sacked, Renault accept guilt.
Rumour is that Ecclestone is desperate for Renault to stay in F1 and a deal has been done between F1, the FIA and Renault.
Just seen this, incredible!!
What a fecking low lives. Mind you, we already knew Biatore was the biggest cheat in F1 history.
Wow, thats pretty big news. On the one hand its a shame to see Symonds go, he has been part of Renault in its various forms since 1979, Briatore I am not sad to see him go, always has been a complete and utter arse and although he should be credited for creating a world champion team on a shoe string compared to the big guns he has always had that aura of an absolute twat.
Shocking stuff though, to cheat in a sport thats already been through the mud the past few seasons and it risks lifes in doing so.
Shocking stuff though, to cheat in a sport thats already been through the mud the past few seasons and it risks lifes in doing so.
Cheating feckers! I think if they didnt walk then the team would have been thrown out, still if those 2 walk it gives the team a chance of survival, come the hearing next week
Dare I suggest this crash and safety car period could be argued to have cost Massa the win and potentially affected the outcome of the WDC?!
I mean, obviously we never know what would have changed had Massa won that race, everything could have gone differently, but still..
I mean, obviously we never know what would have changed had Massa won that race, everything could have gone differently, but still..
fsakes
I ask what is the fking point of it all
Deliberately smashing up a car going at 100mph on a street circuit with people and marshall's all over the fking place - how cynical does it get
If you did that out on the road today in London they 'd fking bang you up and you'd never drive again
F1 really is full of some scum bags
I ask what is the fking point of it all
Deliberately smashing up a car going at 100mph on a street circuit with people and marshall's all over the fking place - how cynical does it get
If you did that out on the road today in London they 'd fking bang you up and you'd never drive again
F1 really is full of some scum bags
McLaren were hit with a one hundred million dollar fine for cheating - it'll be interesting to see what Renault get. Probably a slap on the wrists.
Could go either way. Spanky recently said that race fixing is 'worse than normal cheating', so you could expect the punishment to be heavier than for McLaren, but at the same time after Ron left McLaren in the Liegate incident the FIA talked about a 'change in culture' and were lenient.
They could either hit them hard or say 'well those involved have left' and act leniently.
shocking stuff, lying bastards.
I'm glad for Piquet's sake that his story appears to be true.
On the other hand his career is still over.
I'm glad for Piquet's sake that his story appears to be true.
On the other hand his career is still over.
Maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have deliberately crashed then!
Why do it? The chance of winning a race, thats why.
I would expect the FIA to come down heavy on the team, irrespective of them sacking those who have caused the problems
That's not enough of a reason though is it
You lose all control of a vehicle the moment your hands are off the wheel and the fking ignoramouses do that in a place where there's loads of people on the street
We've seen wheels killing poeple in recent months and these fkers still pull these life threatening to the public stunts just to win a race
Its fortunate people we'rent killed - Somewhere in this it would seem the right thing to bring a public conviction against Briatore and whoever else is involved
Absolute cvnts
Imagine somebody had been killed - Renault would be getting sued for tens of millions ££
Well the safety of the public is the last of the concern from their point of view. They're in a results business & it seems they would go to any lengths to get that result.
I'm not condoning it, not by a long shot, but i can certainly understand why they did it.
As for somebody being killed i think you're going a little OTT. I doubt in the circuit design stages that they would put the grandstand so close to the track if they had doubts a car would spin off & debris would go into the crowd. The fact they had 10-15ft fences up there would be the safety net for any stray pieces.
I'm not condoning it, not by a long shot, but i can certainly understand why they did it.
As for somebody being killed i think you're going a little OTT. I doubt in the circuit design stages that they would put the grandstand so close to the track if they had doubts a car would spin off & debris would go into the crowd. The fact they had 10-15ft fences up there would be the safety net for any stray pieces.
Don't you think you're being a little melodramatic? I certainly understand your point, and it'll be taken into consideration, but to suggest that Briatore should be publically convicted is taking it a little too far, no?
The crash wasn't too major when things are considered. It was far less dangerous than, say, Hamilton's crash this weekend. I don't think any lives were seriously at risk, bar perhaps Pique's own - and he agreed to it.
I'm sure they'll factor in the danger side (and I personally hope they get punished for it), but I think you might be overstating that aspect of the argument somewhat. The broader crime in my opinion is the actual fixing. It not only ruins the spectacle for millions of viewers, it puts the entire sport in jeapordy. If people stop watching (and they must be getting sick of it now - it's just one cheating row after another, though usually McLaren are involved somehow) then everyone'll be out of a job.
He's intentionally crashed at one of the most dangerous points on the circuit, where he knows there's no slip road and the wreckage can't quickly be shifted
It would be so easy for a car behind steaming into him or his debris and having a big incident
The broader crime is the fixing, but you shouldn't downplay the danger involved. Both to the driver in question, other drivers, and the stewards / crowd close to the incident
I know you're not condoning it but ...
No I'm going UNDER the top
The chances of somebody being killed are present, very much so
They are not 1 in a million either and you can make any precautions to deal with bits of cars flying off under the race conditions which are a known factor but once you start throwing a car around with the intention of smashing it up your best laid safety plans can go right out of the window
The Massa head injury should be enough for you to understand the randomness of flying car parts
You'd think very differently if a member of your family was part of a watching audience and ended up with part of a car wheel through their brains at 100mph. We all know its possible as an accident under race conditions but to know that a F1 racing has been deliberately crashed is another thing entirely
People have been killed by flying wheels only recently albeit unlikely but enough of a chance to know that it does happen
That's not extreme it could easily have happened here
I'd suspect there's a very good case for a criminally negligent prosecution to see the light of day
We all know it wont happen but it fking ought to
People go on about doping in cycling and stuff, but this is actually worse imo. They actually put in to danger the saftey of their own driver, as well as the other drivers etc. It's just unbeleivable that they even comtemplated doing it.
I think you're going way over the top now, do you follow F1 much? Only because someone that did would realise the amount of safety testing that goes into the sport to ensure both driver & fan safety.
In relation to the incident i think you're going OTT slightly. Turn 17 at Singapore isn't a high speed corner, even Martin Brundle on the commentary said that his car "Looks a mess, but its a relatively minor incident".
The chances of someone getting killed are all over the place in the world so its pointless to use those in an argument. The fact is, given where the circuit had placed the grandstand they were reassured by safety experts that if an accident happened at the slow, turn 17, crowds would be safe at that distance.
That argument is irrelevant. Massa's injury was on one of the highest speed points of the Hungaroring. This crash of Piquets was on a corner at probably a 3rd or maybe even a quarter of the speed Massa was going. The accident was a freak accident, the crash that Piquet had would have probably gone through intense testing to see how the car disassembles in an accident where it hits a wall of a street circuit. You simply cannot compare those incidents.
Again, you're going to extremes here. It isn't relevant, at the time when people thought the accident was merely an accident, im sure you didn't cry 'OMG WHAT ABOUT THE CROWD'. Only now when its pre-meditated does it become a big issue of safety.
Dirty tactics? Yes, Against the nature of the sport? Yes, but in no way the picture you're trying to paint of Briatore & Pat Symonds on a par with Slobodan Milosevic & his war crimes.
No it wouldn't of happened here, you're going to extremes now to try to prove something that wasn't there. The speed wouldn't have caused a flying wheel, nor would the impact straight into the wall. The wall would actually take the impact & the tyres (still attached to the car) would of had the velocity to have bounced higher than the 10-15ft fences around turns 17/18.
No case whatsoever, its up to the race organisers & the circuit themselves to ensure crowd safety, something the teams nor drivers are not liable for. Otherwise every crash that happens on a race circuit (intended or not intended for the purpose of this argument) would be in court after every race with people claiming all sorts of things (trauma & stress for two).
I see your point, i just don't think the argument is neither necessary or required in the debate.
Christ - Symonds and Briatore taken out. They had F1 in their blood.
They will be lucky to get work after this
They will be lucky to get work after this
Rumour as well that the Football League are going to try & invoke a clause to get him out of QPR too, fit and proper person requirements or something like that.
That will depend on the outcome of Monday's hearing, the stewards report has cleared Alonso of involvement and also says “The Stewards do not consider that they are in a position to draw any definitive conclusion regarding Mr Briatore’s knowledge of involvement.”
The rules state that "Anyone subject to a ban from a sports governing body relating to the administration of that sport" will not pass the 'fit and proper person' test, and if he is not banned then it won't affect him with QPR.
The rules state that "Anyone subject to a ban from a sports governing body relating to the administration of that sport" will not pass the 'fit and proper person' test, and if he is not banned then it won't affect him with QPR.
Naa thats a lot of bollocks
You can dress it up anyway you want and for starters you do not know a wheel is not gonna come off a car and land right on some poor fkers head - its happened before, more than once, so it does happen and that's your argument up in flames mate.
As for freak accidents - they're all freak until they stick in your helmet into your brain and kill you or maim you - Senna Messa or countless other accidents where drivers have died. I know safety is better than ever but its not foolproof and the last thing we need is idiotic drivers deliberately causing and making them
I do follow F1 and you're talking like everything is under control - the fk it is - especially with cars flying around tracks at untold speeds
Who cares what Martin Brundle said - after Senna crashed nobody thought hardly anything of it for ten minutes
F1 is not a stable sport and you're making a mistake for thinking it is - its better than it was but it's still as dangerous as fk and nomatter what you say any accident at speed can become a fatal one and if drivers are'nt doing it deliberately than at least thats one less chance of a death or two
Seems as clear as day to me