The F1 Thread 2009 Season

Rooney1987 said:
How is it laughable I just think he is losing his passion to drive in F1 there have been time were he just looks bored seeing him doing all these rally car races I think he want to do something else.

Again I can't agree he is not above Hamilton never mind next to Alonso. In think in 08 when he has the same car as Massa but it was Massa fighting with Lewis for the title. If he is up there with ALonso why is he getting dropped for Alonso and not Massa.
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You are fully aware that Kimi and Massa have contrasting driving styles. Ferrari try to cater for this by finding a equilibrium when designing the car so that both drivers can go away and do their own things, but Kimi's style couldn't adapt to the car post Silverstone. He was essentially playing catchup from Germany onwards.

There is no evidence to say Kimi is in fact being dropped. His performance of late have proved otherwise. In fact, I dare say Massa will be lucky to drive a race car until mid next year let alone the start of next season. While his head is healing, the risk is still so very high, especially in a series with such high levels of G.
 
Yeah thats true im jumping ahread there but im just going of reports in the papers and blogs. I think Kimi will be gone for Alonso, Massa is loved at Ferrari I think he wil stay drive for them next year.
 
Rooney1987 said:
How is it laughable I just think he is losing his passion to drive in F1 there have been time were he just looks bored seeing him doing all these rally car races I think he want to do something else.
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Have you watched him doing the rally? His demeanour and expression rarely changes, and he looks exactly the same in front of the camera during rally events as he does F1, that's just him. If you knew anything about the man you'd know that if he didn't want to be in F1 he wouldn't be there.

Rooney1987 said:
Again I can't agree he is not above Hamilton never mind next to Alonso. In think in 08 when he has the same car as Massa but it was Massa fighting with Lewis for the title. If he is up there with ALonso why is he getting dropped for Alonso and not Massa.
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1. The characteristics of the 2008 Ferrari have been well documented as having understeering tendencies which hugely benefited Massa's driving style and were detrimental to Raikkonen. I have explained earlier in this thread the issues he had with tyre temperatures and understeer and the reasons why he didn't manage to win many races despite often setting the fastest laps of a weekend. Oh and don't take my word on Kimi being better with oversteer:

Mark Hughes writing for Autosport said:
One thing the Ferrari engineers have been amazed at is just how much oversteer he likes in a car. The more you dial in, the faster he seems to go. It gives him instant direction change but his great feel, precision and speed of input can then dampen down what would normally be the negative consequences of that.

At first they struggled to believe just how he could do that - but now they know. They have also seen a little insight into that fantastic high-speed precision the McLaren guys used to rave about. When he's really in the zone, they say, he's forced them to recalibrate their ideas of what is possible.

When that was said to me, I thought I might be misinterpreting it, so to make sure, I said: "What, even after Michael?" I received a straight-in-the-eyes response: "Yes."
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Source: Autosport

2. We don't know who the driver line up is going to be next year, but for my money Kimi and Alonso are as good as each other, so any decision between them would be based on other issues - like money.

EDIT: I spent too long finding that autosport quote :lol:
 
R_Nick said:
Have you watched him doing the rally? His demeanour and expression rarely changes, and he looks exactly the same in front of the camera during rally events as he does F1, that's just him. If you knew anything about the man you'd know that if he didn't want to be in F1 he wouldn't be there.



1. The characteristics of the 2008 Ferrari have been well documented as having understeering tendencies which hugely benefited Massa's driving style and were detrimental to Raikkonen. I have explained earlier in this thread the issues he had with tyre temperatures and understeer and the reasons why he didn't manage to win many races despite often setting the fastest laps of a weekend. Oh and don't take my word on Kimi being better with oversteer:



Source: Autosport

2. We don't know who the driver line up is going to be next year, but for my money Kimi and Alonso are as good as each other, so any decision between them would be based on other issues - like money.

EDIT: I spent too long finding that autosport quote :lol:
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I will admit I was wrong I didn't really know much on the 08 car and which drvier is suited more.

Were not gonna agree I don't think he is up there up Alonso or Hamilton thats just my opinion. I talk about him losing his passion but I'd love him back at Mclaren over Kova with Lewis though know that Ron Denise has gone.
 
Moving on, I just read Piquet's statement to the FIA about his view on the Renault issue

FIA Statement

All in all its pretty damning on Renaults part, especially Briatore and Symonds and obviously Piquet too. I don't see how if they have the relevant data and a drivers confession they can possibly get away with it.
 
Wow!

I mean that's not just some idle gossip, he's properly fleshed out what happened

Renault might be fecked here, they already have the tyre thing a few races ago over them

Gunna be fascinating to see what happens these next couple of days...
 
Speculation will continue to mount about punishments, Autosport seem quite sure that Alonso knew nothing about it but Renault as a team are neck deep and obviously so it Piquet.

I wouldn't be surprised if Renault are given a season long ban backdated to the start of the year - no more racing this year and points so far wiped off the board - and a hefty fine.
 
Oh what a load of absolute crap. Piquet didn't have the talent to drive an f1 car, let alone orchestrate an accident like that. He & his father are simply having a bitch and a whinge, because little ickles Piquet got the arse and nobody else wanted his rather pathetic services.
 
marchi-91 said:
Oh what a load of absolute crap. Piquet didn't have the talent to drive an f1 car, let alone orchestrate an accident like that. He & his father are simply having a bitch and a whinge, because little ickles Piquet got the arse and nobody else wanted his rather pathetic services.
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Symonds is quoted by Autosport as having confirmed it was discussed, his only differs in saying that it was Piquet's idea rather then theirs.
 
Piquet is taking a risk in even letting this out of the bag, I don't see why he would lie on this level just for revenge, theres an element of truth to it in my opinion, its just how much we won't know until the rulers reach their verdict.
 
Brad said:
Piquet decides team orders does he?

That's the least believable thing of the lot!
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:lol: I only skim read it, but I think Symonds was trying to say that "yes, we talked about it, but only because Piquet himself brought up the suggestion, but we didn't agree to it".

EDIT: at the very least Briatore and Symonds have completely contradicted each other:

Briatore is reported to have claimed that he was: "a victim of extortion by the Piquet family.

"I confirm the meeting with Piquet on Sunday morning, but nothing like that was ever talked about. I also remember that Piquet at Singapore was in a very fragile state of mind. Besides that, there are the audio recordings where I express disappointment when I see on the screens that Piquet had crashed."

Symonds is also reported as saying: "It's true, during the Sunday meeting with Piquet the issue of deliberately causing a SC deployment came up, but it was proposed by Piquet himself. It was just a conversation."
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autosport.com - F1 News: Race-day meeting key to Renault case

Briatore seems to suggest that the fact he was recorded as expressing disappointment at the crash it means he can't possibly have been complicit!! :wenger:
 
I seem to remember that Alonso was right up there in free practice and in Quali but then had a car failure which messed him up. They had the pace to run at the front and knew the only way they could get him there was a safety car, its all too convienient that Alonso ran a really really short first stop and Piquet crashed the lap after he took it.
 
marchi-91 said:
Oh what a load of absolute crap. Piquet didn't have the talent to drive an f1 car, let alone orchestrate an accident like that. He & his father are simply having a bitch and a whinge, because little ickles Piquet got the arse and nobody else wanted his rather pathetic services.
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You dont think it is even remotely possible? :wenger:
 
Renault say they are launching legal action against Nelson Piquet Jr and his father Nelson Piquet over race-fixing allegations made against the team.

The team are accused of plotting with Piquet Jr to crash during last year's Singapore Grand Prix to aid team-mate Fernando's Alonso's path to victory.
Renault says the criminal proceedings being launched in France concern "the making of false allegations".

They also refer to a "related attempt to blackmail the team".
The French team says that the blackmail attempt was in relation to "allowing Mr Piquet Jr to drive for the remainder of the 2009 season," according to a statement released by them on Friday.

Piquet Jr was dismissed by Renault in early August.

Renault - who are also referring the matter to police in the UK - are to attend an extraordinary meeting of motorsport's governing body, the FIA, on 21 September to answer the race-fixing allegations made against them.

If found guilty, the team could face severe sanctions which could include expulsion from the current F1 world championship.

A spokesperson for the Piquets said they had "no comment" to make following the Renault statement when asked by BBC Sport.

The FIA first started investigating the matter after the initial claim of fixing was made by a Brazilian TV station during the Belgian GP in August - but Renault, as they point out in their statement, "had not commented publicly during the investigation into this matter".

Piquet Jr has been outspoken in his criticism of Renault team boss Flavio Briatore since he was sacked after July's Hungarian GP.

There are media reports that the Brazilian driver has told the FIA that he was asked to crash by the team before the Singapore race, and that Renault in their evidence to the FIA investigators denied this.

Alonso won the Singapore GP in 2008 when Piquet crashed two laps after the Spaniard had come in for a routine pit stop.

That meant that when race officials sent out the safety car to clear up the debris from Piquet's car, Alonso was alone among the front-runners in not having to stop for fuel and tyres.

At the time, Piquet attributed the crash to a simple error.

Alonso, who is currently preparing for Sunday's Italian GP, said on Thursday that he was "very surprised" by the race-fixing charge levelled at Renault.
"I cannot imagine these things, these situations," he said. "It's something that never entered my mind.

"For me it's not even the time to think about, or to pay attention to, this.
"It's difficult to understand for me all this situation and this investigation. It is just too incredible
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Shit just got real!

EDIT:

Spanky has confirmed Piquet has been given immunity by the FIA in exchange for his testimony, as well as stating that race fixing is 'worse than cheating', so if they are found guilty expect harder punishments than Macca got in 07!

autosport.com - F1 News: Mosley: Race-fixing worse than cheating
 
Luca pours cold water on the rumours of Alonso to Ferrari next year. :D

Autosport said:
Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo says Fernando Alonso will sooner or later drive for the historic Italian squad, but the boss suggested it will not happen next year.

Renault driver Alonso has been linked with a move to Ferrari for a long time, and speculation became even stronger after Spanish banking giant Santander, backer of Alonso, confirmed a five-year deal with the Maranello outfit yesterday.

Di Montezemolo suggested Ferrari already has too many drivers for next season to think of Alonso, but the Italian insisted he will hire the two-time champion some day.

"Sooner or later I'll make it happen. We'll see when," di Montezemolo told Spanish reporters at Monza.

"For next year we have Raikkonen, Massa, Fisichella, Badoer, Gene, and I hope Michael Schumacher, so we have a bench as long as Real Madrid's.

"We have two great champions with the 2007 champion and the man who was 2008 champion for 15 seconds when he crossed the line. So I think we have two extraordinary drivers."

He added: "Having said that, I've always liked Alonso, because he is a great driver that I spotted back when he was in Minardi. He won titles, and I've always thought that sooner or later, all great drivers come to Ferrari.

"Before the race at Imola, Ayton Senna came to me and told me: 'I want to end my career with Ferrari'; Prost, Lauda, Mansell, Michael, so we'll see. We look ahead, and life is long for everyone."

The Ferrari boss reiterated his support for the introduction of third cars in Formula 1 in order to allow the sport to have a more competitive field.

"I'm very much in favour for all teams to be able to field three cars, in order to be able to field young drivers, new people, a better show," he said.

"I think it's better to have three cars from well-known teams, than two cars from uncompetitive and unknown teams with uncompetitive drivers. I think F1 is excellence, so welcome to new drivers on competitive cars.

"I think appointing a third car to a young driver or to something new would be useful for the sport. Just look what Michael's return at Valencia would have meant. We must look ahead and try to do it."
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autosport.com - F1 News: Montezemolo: Alonso will join Ferrari
 
Lewis gets pole but might get pushed back for something with coming out of the pits and blocking someone(didn't see it so don't know what happened). Sutil 2nd that Force India looking great people are saying what must Fisi be thinking you can't blame him can you really an Italian joining Ferrari. Kimi gets 3rd another good drive.
 
Not sure if Lewis will be penalised or not, its marginal. Even so I fully expect him to be 1st at the end of the first lap even if he drops back 3. The Brawn's are 1 stopping, Ross said so himself and I think they are the furthest one stoppers forwards, and judging by Jenson's comments I think he might be the heavier or the 2.

Chance of rain tomorrow, should be a good one.
 
Rain would be a nightmare situation for the Brawns.

Fisichella's performance today i think it throws the theory of its all about the car further out of the window.
 
Leg-End said:
Not sure if Lewis will be penalised or not, its marginal. Even so I fully expect him to be 1st at the end of the first lap even if he drops back 3. The Brawn's are 1 stopping, Ross said so himself and I think they are the furthest one stoppers forwards, and judging by Jenson's comments I think he might be the heavier or the 2.

Chance of rain tomorrow, should be a good one.
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Hamilton has been cleared, but if he had been dropped back 3 places how on earth would you 'expect' him to be leading at the end of the first lap?!
 
R_Nick said:
Hamilton has been cleared, but if he had been dropped back 3 places how on earth would you 'expect' him to be leading at the end of the first lap?!
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He's on a 2 stop strategy, so lighter on fuel. Plus the run down to the first corner at Monza is a fair drive so his KERS will easily give him the boost ahead.
 
I expected him to be first simply because of KERS and the long straights, although obviously Kimi would have something to say about that. I will wait on weights before I start predicting strategies but I thought it was pretty apparent the front 4 are 2 stopping and probably 1 stopping the rest.

If it rains to start the guys on 2 stops have the advantage, if it doesnt rain immediately then the guys on 1 stop might get a massive gain from not having to stop until the weather breaks. Any weather conditions I think this race might be abit more exciting than the last few.
 
F-Red said:
He's on a 2 stop strategy, so lighter on fuel. Plus the run down to the first corner at Monza is a fair drive so his KERS will easily give him the boost ahead.
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Leg-End said:
I expected him to be first simply because of KERS and the long straights, although obviously Kimi would have something to say about that. I will wait on weights before I start predicting strategies but I thought it was pretty apparent the front 4 are 2 stopping and probably 1 stopping the rest.
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If he'd dropped 3 places he'd be behind two other KERS cars, one of whom is also light in Kimi. If he'd got that penalty there's no way he'd have been first after one lap!

Anyway the weights show Kovi on a 1 stop with Ham, Sutil and Kimi all very light on two stoppers, should be interesting to see if the 2 stoppers can stay in front. I expect it to be Ham followed by Kimi into turn one, Sutil really needs to keep Kovi behind him or his strategy is fecked.
 
R_Nick said:
If he'd dropped 3 places he'd be behind two other KERS cars, one of whom is also light in Kimi. If he'd got that penalty there's no way he'd have been first after one lap!
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He would, Kimi's running 3 laps more fuel in a slower car than the McLaren of Hamilton for the race this weekend. The KERS would help him to some extent but with the straights of Monza he wouldn't have much in the way of the corners to block him.

Anyway, irrelevant now. I'm really looking forward to this race, much more than Spa at the moment.
 
F-Red said:
He would, Kimi's running 3 laps more fuel in a slower car than the McLaren of Hamilton for the race this weekend. The KERS would help him to some extent but with the straights of Monza he wouldn't have much in the way of the corners to block him.

Anyway, irrelevant now. I'm really looking forward to this race, much more than Spa at the moment.
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Kimi is less than 10kg heavier, they'll either stop on the same lap or kimi will be one longer at most, not sure where you got 3 laps from!!

Also the Q2 times suggest the Ferrari is not far behind the McLaren here.

I'm looking forward to it too, pretty bummed that I'm not there this year.
 
Kovalainen had a chance to win but been taken by the 2 Brawns, Force India and Alonso I know he is heavy with fuel but still not great. Lewis looking good so far
 
1. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 653.5 L15/16
2. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 655.0 L16
3. Raikkonen Ferrari 662.0 L17/18

Kim is Heavier by about 2 laps but 2 lasp might not be enough Lewis is looking good fastest lap after fastest laps.
 
That worked well for the Brawns Lewis comes out behind them in seconds pit stops 18 laps to catch them this will be fun.
 
Strange accident that for Hamilton. Good win for Barrichello and Button back on form, looks good for a title battle.
 
Rooney1987 said:
I think that rules out the Red Bulls now.
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Agreed, its Button vs Barrichello now. Button needs to beat Barrichello at the next race or two to try and stiffle him, but I fancy Barrichello has the momentum now. Too close to call, if Button can carry as many points as possible in the next 3 and not DNF I think its still his.
 
Weird accident by Hamilton, good win for Rubens. Should keep the last 5 races entertaining for a fight between those 2.

Red Bull must be gutted, completely off the pace this weekend.
 
Respect for Hamilton. He wasn't content with 3rd and went for it. People call it stupidity, but it shows massive character. Kimi is the same. He binned it at Spa and Singapore last year, not content with his position. Thats what separates the Massa's of the world to the Raikkonens, Alonso, Hamiltons, Schumachers.
 
One thing is for sure, Jenson cannot have anymore off days. The goal has to be keep the gap at 10 points for the final round, simple as that.
 
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