Ah ok. So just because Kovaleinen went out today (shock horror, he's got a crap car too given it's the twin bloody McClaren), you suddenly flip flop on everything you said before? Did you not know the car has been toss all season or what?
The F1 Thread 2009 Season
- Thread starter Leg-End
- Start date
Ah ok. So just because Kovaleinen went out today (shock horror, he's got a crap car too given it's the twin bloody McClaren), you suddenly flip flop on everything you said before? Did you not know the car has been toss all season or what?
I'm frustrated, alright?Kneejerk reaction on my part, sorry, but it's been a fecking embarassment of a season, especially after last seasons high and today is just a tipping point.
I've flip flopped on it being car and attitude of our team, sometimes Lewie and Kovi both act like fecking knobs and our crew have no desire to fix these problems, on top if that fecking idiotic suspension, we're in shambles.
Kovi'll be gone, hopefully the car gets re-vamped, and we kick-start better next year than we did this,
Kneejerk reaction on my part, sorry, but it's been a fecking embarassment of a season, especially after last seasons high and today is just a tipping point.
I've flip flopped on it being car and attitude of our team, sometimes Lewie and Kovi both act like fecking knobs and our crew have no desire to fix these problems, on top if that fecking idiotic suspension, we're in shambles.
Kovi'll be gone, hopefully the car gets re-vamped, and we kick-start better next year than we did this,
You a McLaren fan then? Because what you just said is equivilant to saying Sack Fergie, Sell Giggs, Ronaldos useless and Richardson is a cnut. Ofcourse they have desire to fix their problems, they have guys in the wind tunnel 24/7 and by 24/7 I mean 2 shifts of 12 hours each. Lewis hasnt acted like a knob, Kovi neither, its just a bad car and a bad season, imagine what Honda fans felt like the last 2 seasons and look where we are now...........
McLaren came off a titanic title battle last season from which they developed that car all the way upto the final round, that has an effect on this seasons car. I have no doubt McLaren will be back soon, probably before the end of the season.
Naomi's off her head.
Vettel always won from pole , but i thing today its gonna be different
Come on Jenson!
Rubens is an idiotpique made hamilton look silly , drove around him
Go support Brawn GP then
Kneejerk reaction on my part, sorry, but it's been a fecking embarassment of a season, especially after last seasons high and today is just a tipping point.
I've flip flopped on it being car and attitude of our team, sometimes Lewie and Kovi both act like fecking knobs and our crew have no desire to fix these problems, on top if that fecking idiotic suspension, we're in shambles.
Kovi'll be gone, hopefully the car gets re-vamped, and we kick-start better next year than we did this,
The guy is brilliant, enough said.
Another fine victory for Button, bit of a bore fest today mind. Good luck to Button for his title charge, and I hope he wins in Silverstone in two weeks, but a bit more competition at the front would be nice
In other news, KERS is dropped for next season, and only Ferrari and McClaren are still using it this season. Fat lot of good it's doing either of them currently
In other news, KERS is dropped for next season, and only Ferrari and McClaren are still using it this season. Fat lot of good it's doing either of them currently
It's a joke, though. Button will win the championship because he's got the best car. Why don't they control the cars via a remote control instead?
not sure about that Spoony , if Vettel doesn't make that mistake , who knows
and Vettel was the fastest in every qualifying
and Vettel was the fastest in every qualifying
F1 has been a joke since about 1950 then has it?
Barrichello also has the best car. I don't see him winning the championship
Plus it's not a static thing, some cars are better at some circuits than others. The Brawn couldn't get anywhere near the Red Bulls in China for example
And of course, Brawn (Honda) developed that car, and each season the regulations change which means a need for new development is needed, there's always scope for change. Your arguement would have held more water in the past, but this season things have been shaken up so much, it's a little bit daft
It's a bit like arguing its daft United have the best players in the Premier League, and keep winning it. It's up to the rest to do a better job developing their team and getting better results, aint it?
Look stick the shittest FI driver in the best car and you'll have a champion. Why bother with drivers at all then? Can't think of a more pointless sport.
That's just patently ridiculous Spoony. Very poor from you
The better drivers get the most out of their cars
No not really. We don't rely on special boots that make us run faster or make players dribble better. I'd love to see them in cars with the same specifications.
Not every driver in the world can win even if the car is the quickest, but most of the F1 grid could win a race yes but considering the amount of drivers in the world it comes down to the 20 best. A few years back half of the grid was made up of drivers who paid to be there and were quite frankly shit.
If you want to watch drivers wizz around in the same cars go and watch IRL or GP2, hell even Nascar.
I could remote control Button's car and probably beat everyone.
Yeah because driving an F1 car is as easy as that
So's his team mate. And yet there's been a vast difference between their respective results
Which goes to show how much difference a driver makes, even with the best car. And some races Red Bull have been as quick if not quicker
Same spec would be shite. I'd stop watching. Fortunately Ferrari and co are threatening to quit over that. Would you like teams in the league to operate on one set wage budget..... that would only be fair....
Its still a team sport. The car and the driver go together. Without Brawn's leadership and tactics a lot of drivers might not have won as many races as they have. He might not be so highly regarded if Schumi didn't make him look so good with strategies.
You can still tell who are quality drivers though. To be fair to Button, how many mistakes has he made... Brawn/Honda are way out ahead though which generally isn't good for the sport.
Its still a team sport. The car and the driver go together. Without Brawn's leadership and tactics a lot of drivers might not have won as many races as they have. He might not be so highly regarded if Schumi didn't make him look so good with strategies.
You can still tell who are quality drivers though. To be fair to Button, how many mistakes has he made... Brawn/Honda are way out ahead though which generally isn't good for the sport.
Go support Brawn GP then
Do people really support F1 teams then? Bit silly that!
I reckon Button will still conspire to throw it away, though. He's too nice and too English to actually win anything.
Other than 6 of the first 7 races?
With the points system as it is, he'd have to do something bloody magnificent to feck it up from here!
'Too English to win anything'...
WTF is that all about?
And don't mention the Hen man.
WTF is that all about?
And don't mention the Hen man.
Why? I supported BAR then Honda now Brawn GP, by support its not the same as football but more of a if any teams gonna win I hope its them kind of thing. I mainly just wish the British drivers well, particularly Jenson since he is the first Brit I have followed since day 1 of his F1 career.
Spoony should try online racing, see how good he is.
Why a team? It's just a bunch of mechanical parts.
And I agree with Spoony a bit. The difference between the best driver in the best car and a mediocre driver in the best car is about 4 places or so. There's not really much excitement in that. Stick both of them in the worst cars and they'll be near last. It's all about the cars.
I watch F1, but that's mainly because I'll watch whatever's on TV.
Why a team? It's all just a bunch of overpaid <insert sport here> people.
I don't know why all the moaning about the cars has become a big thing all of a sudden other than the fact that 2 British people may win a championship back to back. F1 has been like this for about 20 years, Prost/Senna are legends but in 1989 they won 15 out of 16 races between them, its always been like this. I said before its 90% the car and 10% the driver but the driver can make a differance with that 10%, thats what makes the champions.
You do have a valid point Spoons
I love F1 but for the last twenty or so years the ability of the driver has diminished to become less and less a factor in who wins the title
It is still there but nothing as strong as it used to be and as a spectator sport it has suffered.
It really is about the best car now
It's a shame they could' nt in some way have some other contest that made say some or half the races in exactly the same car but due to money in F1 they'd never agree to it
They've made the bed and so we'll never really know exactly who is the best driver imo
I do make you right - stick any of the top twenty drivers in the best car, give them 2 weeks getting used to it and they would all be 'the best driver'. I don't feel there is much to seperate the top ten drivers in ability and talent other than their respective cars so if one team has a definite 'edge' then that driver will prevail
( okay BradleyB I'm ready
)Nah, your post isn't the usual bile and nonsense you usually come out with, you get a free pass on this one
That said I don't agree. With the removal of driver aids, and the changing regulations that make it easier to overtake, it's more about the quality of driver this season than it has been in the past. Brawn is dominant at the moment in the hands of Button, but if say he was only performing as strongly as his team mate Barrichello, you might think Red Bull has the strongest car. Which says everything about the driver, rather than the car
Last season is an absolute prime example if you look at McClaren. Hamilton wins the world champion. Brilliant, he had the best car, the sport is shit the best car always wins. Hang on. His team mate Kovaleinen, driving the same model, finished the championship in SEVENTH place. Imagine if McClaren had two drivers like him instead. You'd think the car was average, and they were just a mid table team, when actually in the right hands, it was a car capable of beating all comers. The fact is a car is only as good as its driver, however well its been built, and of course some drivers are better than others
That said I don't agree. With the removal of driver aids, and the changing regulations that make it easier to overtake, it's more about the quality of driver this season than it has been in the past. Brawn is dominant at the moment in the hands of Button, but if say he was only performing as strongly as his team mate Barrichello, you might think Red Bull has the strongest car. Which says everything about the driver, rather than the car
Last season is an absolute prime example if you look at McClaren. Hamilton wins the world champion. Brilliant, he had the best car, the sport is shit the best car always wins. Hang on. His team mate Kovaleinen, driving the same model, finished the championship in SEVENTH place. Imagine if McClaren had two drivers like him instead. You'd think the car was average, and they were just a mid table team, when actually in the right hands, it was a car capable of beating all comers. The fact is a car is only as good as its driver, however well its been built, and of course some drivers are better than others
But surely the same thing could be said about football, the teams with the best resources has the best chance and usually does win.
Brawn have a very strong car and they also have Ross, and two very experienced drivers. But please dont take anything away from Button..He has driven a blinder this season.
Brawn have a very strong car and they also have Ross, and two very experienced drivers. But please dont take anything away from Button..He has driven a blinder this season.
I think you also need to factor in the car characteristics and whether it suits a particular driver or not but i do think the cars more a factor than the driver these days.
Its happened in F1 in the past and it will happen in the future that every so often there is one team and driver gets it spot on and completely dominates a championship...this year its been Brawn and Button.
Button in particular has been driving superbly this season, can't fault him at all and would be fully deserving of a drivers championship.
Only bad thing now teams are soon not going to bother trying to catch up and start preparing next years car.Whitmarsh has just announced that McLaren are going to scrap this year and focus on next years car I think Ferrari wont be far behind them
Its happened in F1 in the past and it will happen in the future that every so often there is one team and driver gets it spot on and completely dominates a championship...this year its been Brawn and Button.
Button in particular has been driving superbly this season, can't fault him at all and would be fully deserving of a drivers championship.
Only bad thing now teams are soon not going to bother trying to catch up and start preparing next years car.Whitmarsh has just announced that McLaren are going to scrap this year and focus on next years car I think Ferrari wont be far behind them
Nah, your post isn't the usual bile and nonsense you usually come out with, you get a free pass on this one
That said I don't agree. With the removal of driver aids, and the changing regulations that make it easier to overtake, it's more about the quality of driver this season than it has been in the past. Brawn is dominant at the moment in the hands of Button, but if say he was only performing as strongly as his team mate Barrichello, you might think Red Bull has the strongest car. Which says everything about the driver, rather than the car
Last season is an absolute prime example if you look at McClaren. Hamilton wins the world champion. Brilliant, he had the best car, the sport is shit the best car always wins. Hang on. His team mate Kovaleinen, driving the same model, finished the championship in SEVENTH place. Imagine if McClaren had two drivers like him instead. You'd think the car was average, and they were just a mid table team, when actually in the right hands, it was a car capable of beating all comers. The fact is a car is only as good as its driver, however well its been built, and of course some drivers are better than others
But that is not strictly true
Every team has a number one driver and a number two
That clearly defines the pecking order in respect of time spent on car setups for the respective drivers. At all teams the number two driver is always complaining that the team favours the 'top boy'
F1 history is littered with number 'twos' that get the ache of it and leave after a short time. There are few that stay behind a top driver just for the dollars knowing full well they will never get preference and a proper chance to fulfill their potential
I don't think anybody seriously believes it to be any other way. I cant off the top of my head think of any number two that has outperformed a number one at a team. Maybe one but I cant remember who that was and I think alliegence was changed to him mid season - was that Hamilton a few years back ?
But it's rare anyway. The tweaks, setups, planning, testing are done with number one in mind and number two has to lump it from what I can see no number two's car is never ever really the same as number one's. The team can say this and say that about 'no preferences' but we all know the truth of it
Don't know if other people see it that way but its pretty obvious to me
Well no actually, that's not strictly true. Brawn don't for one
And last years title challenger Massa was the 'number 2' at Ferrari (so much for remembering off the top of your head eh!), but it doesn't matter. You get the same car, the team doesn't deliberately penalise you so the other guy can do better. Their goal is to get both their drivers ahead of the field
I haven't cared or watched F1 since Mansell retired.