The F1 Thread 2009 Season

Unfortunate for Lewis, a great race from him, Button and Vettel.
 
Barcelona willl be very intresting with BMW, Ferrari and Mclaren all making big changes to there cars
 
Well done Button, 1st ever win in dry conditions is it?

Great day for the English drivers all round really, that McClaren still doesn't look particularly racy, 4th place is a cracking result for Hamilton
 
2nd, he won Austalia in the dry no?

Great win though, he was superb all race long. Vettel and Trulli good job, Hamilton did excellent and once that car gets going he will be right up there again.

Not a great GP in terms of excitement after the opening lap but im delighted for Jense none the less.
 
Rooney1987 said:
Just watching the F1 forum on the BBC looks like there will be no British GP next year.
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Would look that way. Alot had questioned the decision to move to Donnington to start with. Many people expected this to happen and give Bernie a bigger reason to move
 
Ay, they've been punished already losing the points for that race, no need for anything stronger, suspended setence is fair

This is interesting though:

The penalty will only be enforced upon Lewis Hamilton's team if "further facts emerge" about this incident or if there is a "further breech" of the rules.

If further facts emerge? Do they have something in mind there? Are they still not happy with the version of events being presented?
 
Brad Wilton said:
Ay, they've been punished already losing the points for that race, no need for anything stronger, suspended setence is fair

This is interesting though:

The penalty will only be enforced upon Lewis Hamilton's team if "further facts emerge" about this incident or if there is a "further breech" of the rules.

If further facts emerge? Do they have something in mind there? Are they still not happy with the version of events being presented?
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That's exactly what I thought. Wouldn't surprise me if they already know "further facts" and are using this as a way of making the eventual application of the ban look unavoidable, thus deflecting any criticism of being too harsh.
 
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Jake Hump-rey's a little keen?
 
:lol: I noticed that earlier.

The budget cap looks like its in then.

“From 2010, all teams will have the option to compete with cars built and operated within a stringent cost cap.
The cost cap for 2010 will be £40m per annum*. This figure will cover all team expenditure except:

- Marketing and hospitality;
- Remuneration for test or race drivers, including any young driver programmes;
- Fines or penalties imposed by the FIA;
- Engine costs (for 2010 only);
- Any expenditure which the team can demonstrate has no influence on its performance in the Championship
- Dividends (including any tax thereon) paid from profits relating to participation in the Championship.”

This is great news for the smaller teams and any teams looking to enter, bad news for the big spending manufacturers who will find it very hard to slash their budgets in order to meet the criteria. I think this is the emergance of new long term order of play, teams like Williams and Brawn who both have excellent engineers and back innovation will be rubbing their hands with glee I would imagine.

Not great news for the expendable workers of the teams though, I think we can expect many will lose their jobs in order for teams to get their budgets down. I know one man who is sitting with a smile on his face and he wears glasses and has a 3 time race winning car this season.
 
Found this from a week ago, thought it was a pretty interesting read:

The Times F1 Debate: Is what Lewis did any worse than Michael Schumacher's shenanigans at Monaco in '06?

http://timesonline.typepad.com/form...-schumachers-shenanigans-at-monaco-in-06.html

Bearing in mind that McLaren - or Martin Whitmarsh to be precise - will go before the FIA in Paris tomorrow where the team will be punished over the so-called "lie-gate" affair, I thought we should have a go at this comparison.

I was talking to a former Formula One driver about this the other day and he was arguing that what Lewis did in Melbourne and then Kuala Lumpur - deliberately trying to deceive the stewards under the guidance of Dave Ryan to gain third place at the expense of Jarno Trulli - was far less serious in comparison to what Michael did at Rascasse during qualifying in 2006.

You will remember that Schumacher suddenly braked as he reached Turn 18 at Monaco, locking up his front wheels, coming to a stop and stalling his engine. He did this in the final minutes of qualifying in an attempt to remain on pole when he knew several drivers could beat him. In the end, after considering the case for eight hours, the stewards decided he had acted deliberately in conduct that amounted to the worst form of gamesmanship, and they sent Michael to the back of the grid in disgrace. Looking back, he may have got off very lightly, you may think.

Discussing this with the former driver, his view was that anything of this nature that happened on the track, should be regarded by the FIA as more serious than anything that happens in the protest room. Not only had Michael prevented others taking pole, he had also contrived to leave his car in a dangerous position which then required the marshalls to come out to deal with it as other cars were passing by. His actions had effectively wrecked the climax of qualifying on one of the biggest racing weekends in the Formula One calendar.

By contrast Lewis, under pressure from Ryan, lied to the stewards about the circumstances in which Jarno passed him. In the first instance in Melbourne this happened fairly soon after the race when, in Ryan's case, his blood was still up. On the second occassion, however, the pair (possibly under instructions from someone else) repeated those lies in cold blood, whereas Michael acted in heat of the moment.

In any reading of the events it is easy to see that Lewis's transgressions had far less impact on the overall sporting occasion than did Michael's. However the FIA are known to have reached the end of their tether with what they see - or saw under Ron Dennis - as a culture of dishonesty at McLaren which the organisation believes requires a serious sanction both as a punishment and a deterrent. The FIA believes Lewis has already paid his price for his part in the affair and now McLaren must pay theirs. But this all begs the question about Ferrari's part in Michael's behaviour in Monaco. Did he act alone and, even if he did, were not Ferrari ultimately responsible for his conduct, just as McLaren are for Lewis's?

If my former driver is correct in his assessment of the relative merits of each case, then Lewis has already been overly-punished, by being thrown out of the race in Melbourne and certainly there should be no further sanction in Paris tomorrow
 
Brad Wilton said:
Found this from a week ago, thought it was a pretty interesting read:

The Times F1 Debate: Is what Lewis did any worse than Michael Schumacher's shenanigans at Monaco in '06?

http://timesonline.typepad.com/form...-schumachers-shenanigans-at-monaco-in-06.html

Bearing in mind that McLaren - or Martin Whitmarsh to be precise - will go before the FIA in Paris tomorrow where the team will be punished over the so-called "lie-gate" affair, I thought we should have a go at this comparison.

I was talking to a former Formula One driver about this the other day and he was arguing that what Lewis did in Melbourne and then Kuala Lumpur - deliberately trying to deceive the stewards under the guidance of Dave Ryan to gain third place at the expense of Jarno Trulli - was far less serious in comparison to what Michael did at Rascasse during qualifying in 2006.

You will remember that Schumacher suddenly braked as he reached Turn 18 at Monaco, locking up his front wheels, coming to a stop and stalling his engine. He did this in the final minutes of qualifying in an attempt to remain on pole when he knew several drivers could beat him. In the end, after considering the case for eight hours, the stewards decided he had acted deliberately in conduct that amounted to the worst form of gamesmanship, and they sent Michael to the back of the grid in disgrace. Looking back, he may have got off very lightly, you may think.

Discussing this with the former driver, his view was that anything of this nature that happened on the track, should be regarded by the FIA as more serious than anything that happens in the protest room. Not only had Michael prevented others taking pole, he had also contrived to leave his car in a dangerous position which then required the marshalls to come out to deal with it as other cars were passing by. His actions had effectively wrecked the climax of qualifying on one of the biggest racing weekends in the Formula One calendar.

By contrast Lewis, under pressure from Ryan, lied to the stewards about the circumstances in which Jarno passed him. In the first instance in Melbourne this happened fairly soon after the race when, in Ryan's case, his blood was still up. On the second occassion, however, the pair (possibly under instructions from someone else) repeated those lies in cold blood, whereas Michael acted in heat of the moment.

In any reading of the events it is easy to see that Lewis's transgressions had far less impact on the overall sporting occasion than did Michael's. However the FIA are known to have reached the end of their tether with what they see - or saw under Ron Dennis - as a culture of dishonesty at McLaren which the organisation believes requires a serious sanction both as a punishment and a deterrent. The FIA believes Lewis has already paid his price for his part in the affair and now McLaren must pay theirs. But this all begs the question about Ferrari's part in Michael's behaviour in Monaco. Did he act alone and, even if he did, were not Ferrari ultimately responsible for his conduct, just as McLaren are for Lewis's?

If my former driver is correct in his assessment of the relative merits of each case, then Lewis has already been overly-punished, by being thrown out of the race in Melbourne and certainly there should be no further sanction in Paris tomorrow
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It would be nice to know who this former driver is. By all means it sounds like Keke Rosberg, but could possibly be Jaques.

The difference is in the evidence. The F.I.A. could not prove that Michael had stuck his car there on purpose, so sanctioned him with the standard penalty given to drivers who block others hot laps 'or was at the time'.
They have clear evidence that both Lewis and McLaren lied to officials. Although they handled it poorly, McLaren need not have lied and still would have picked up 3rd.

People who consider that Lewis had no fault, are only kidding themselves. Although he was informed by David Ryan, it is he that has to answer the questions and he failed to do so correctly.

The penalty will be given to McLaren in my opinion, if they try to oppose any changes in regulations that Mad Max wants to impose. What we need right now is for McLaren to back Ferrari. Max is ruining the sport. Budget caps? standard motors?. This is f1 not tin top racing. Its designed to push the limits of technology, but they are pretty much saying, stop.

When that dickhead leaves the sport or dies, f1 will return to order. I reckon Bernies probably getting sick of Max's shite aswell.
 
Which jackass at Sky decided it would be a good idea to have the derby as the early Sunday game?!?! They have a pretty meaningless Arsenal vs Chelsea game on after that, surely that would have been a reasonable appetiser rather than the other way round? And if it was on police advice, well the police can go swivel because it's nonsense

Gunna miss the race this weekend because of this. Bellends

I think we catch the first half hour, then maybe the closing laps during half time depending how long it lasts. Think Spain is a pretty short one from memory
 
Brad Wilton said:
Which jackass at Sky decided it would be a good idea to have the derby as the early Sunday game?!?! They have a pretty meaningless Arsenal vs Chelsea game on after that, surely that would have been a reasonable appetiser rather than the other way round? And if it was on police advice, well the police can go swivel because it's nonsense
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Of course it was on police advice, Brad (though I doubt they even bothered ask the police) - united haven't played City later than 1:30 for about 4 years...
 
Ferrari catching up, it seems. Still half a second or so off but getting there.
 
Was a great lap by Button that, he did not look like he had any chance. Not even sure the fuel loads will be that bad judging by Barrichello's face.
 
im gonna watch the first half hour, Sky+ it all, then watch the rest after the football, i just hope i dont get the result spoiled by some cnut in the matchday thread or on the BBC Live Text
 
Superb by Button again, when he drives like that you simply can't back against him, his middle stint with 29 laps of fuel was brilliant and won it for him.
 
Brad said:
Missed it all in the end, doesn't sound like it was the most exciting of grand prix though?

Keep it up Button lad, dominant season so far
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It wasn't much. Bits and pieces were good but the whole race was spoilt by Massa. He kept Vettel behind and allowed the Brawns to fly into the distance.
 
horselesspaul said:
Or Vettel was unable to pass and Red Bull had no strategy to leapfrog him..
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You can't pass a car whos using KERS, all the drivers not using it have explained how difficult it is as they simply use it on the straights making it nigh impossible to outbrake them. If you spend too long behind a car then your tryes get wasted in the dirty air.

The strategy is a valid argument, Webber changed his as did Button. Vettel should have fueled light on hard tyres then dropped in for the last stretch on the softs. Nevermind :)
 
Yes. Being KERS-less (and therefore lighter) I would have expected Red Bull to have another strategic plan for such an occasion. I think KERS (and miniKERS, midiKERS blah blah..) is just going to make it all far too diverse and uneven in the final analysis but I guess that's what lil Bernie was after...
 
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