Alvarez, Delgado and Laudrup were the ones who stood out for me.So, getting the "unpicked" discussion started, and considering I only really looked at two criteria:
Justo Villar - awesome keeper, never played in Europe, FIFA >30 ("Mono" Tavarelli)
Walter Ayoví - good leftback, 91 caps and never played in Europe
Josema Giménez - yeah, young/unproven peak, but can play CB or RB and has more World Cup starts than even La Liga starts so far and 0 Euro. Great games to boot, the sign of a great player, that he can spend an entire season on his arse and play against England and Italy effortlessly.
Hernán Díaz - more than decent CB and River Plate legend (ten seasons, eight league titles, a Copa Libertadores and a Sudamericana, second most decorated player in River's history) who never played in Europe.
Egidio Arévalo Ríos - not that I expected anyone to pick him, but that's now two World Cups and a Copa under his belt where he was tasked with the dirty work and came up trumps against the very best in the world. No Europe.
Leonel Álvarez - now THAT is a miss, one of the best DMs of his generation who wouldn't look out of place and was actually better than half of those drafted. A defensive rock with a beauty of a pass. Valderrama took the plaudits, but Alvarez did the legwork and still had time to play Hollywood balls. Never played in Europe but is the second most capped Colombian ever.
Alberto García Aspe - never played in Europe but 109 caps for Mexico isn't too shabby, is it?
Marcelo "Chelo" Delgado - a Gio favourite, and quite rightly, destroyed defences at will for that all-conquering Boca side of the early noughties. Not really that many wide options as good as him out there when you remove the 4-5 usual suspects. Never played in Europe.
There's plenty others but those are some I think could have held their own.
And then there's the cherry on the cake...
The Austrian...
A man that could have been easily the solution for Annahnomoss... He also links as an 8-9 with the likes of Kohler, Effenberg and a few other top players in this...
The Criteria Draft - The Drafts
- Thread starter RoadTrip
- Start date
Come on guys you need to decide your game times else I'll start allocating
@Annahnomoss Can you do this weekend?
Me vs @BorisDeLeFora - Wednesday 6th Aug.
I'm moving homes today and will probably not have internet installed for whole of next week. At least the settling in should be done by Wednesday!
@rpitroda
I'm moving homes today and will probably not have internet installed for whole of next week. At least the settling in should be done by Wednesday!
@rpitroda
So far:
me vs edogen on Monday
EAP vs Boris Wednesday
Stobzilla/KM vs VJ/crappy Wednesday
me vs edogen on Monday
EAP vs Boris Wednesday
Stobzilla/KM vs VJ/crappy Wednesday
Yeah, it's the first two that are a real shame becaause this really was the sort of draft for them to come to the fore. Alvarez was excellent and would be World Class in any era, proper CM who could do everything right. Instead we see teams with the likes of Arteta pulling strings from midfield. No attack on Arteta, he can do a job, the difference is Alvarez would be an absolute beast, not just doing a job.
Souness-esque, even down to the 'tache.
I agree that some very decent players weren't picked - that's obvious. But glaring omissions? I don't know about that, really. You have to factor in how people picked - which categories they sought to get out of the way early, etc. There's a first rate DM/CM there - sure. Excellent category too - but who does he replace? And for whom?
As for Brian Laudrup...nah, come on. He was a good player, but unless you apply the old ad hominem in the extreme it's not exactly scandalous that he wasn't picked. One manager could have upgraded his team by picking him - that's about it.
As for Brian Laudrup...nah, come on. He was a good player, but unless you apply the old ad hominem in the extreme it's not exactly scandalous that he wasn't picked. One manager could have upgraded his team by picking him - that's about it.
Did Xabi Alonso not get picked in the end either ? Him and Macherano for criteria 8 and 9 would of been a good 1.
Only played 18 months together. The only way Alonso would have qualified would have been through someone like Kuyt or Aurelio.
I could of sworn they played about 3 seasons together. Very surprising that.
Thought the same. Thank god i didn't fall into trap, first 2 players that came into my head for that one
@The Red Viper What day would be best for you mate ?
Mascherano joined 'em in the January window of '07. Alonso left 'em in the summer window of '09.
They didn't play two full seasons together, according to the standards set here.
If Mascherano joined Liverpool in January '07 and Alonso left in August '09, then they played the full 07/08 and 08/09 season together and the second half of the '06/07 season.
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Excuse me while I go bash my head against a wall.
Yes. They did. Unless my head has gone completely to feck.
You're right.
They did play two full seasons together (2007-2008 and 2008-2009) - without winning anything.
Super
The question is, all things said and done, who fecking cares? Did anyone seriously contemplate fielding the grand duo of Alonso and Mascherano, based on THAT particular criterion?
Two utter twats who never won anything playing for...Liverpool under the most ridiculed (on the Caf) manager ever?
Yeah, good luck. Voters would be drooling over that one, no doubt.
Two utter twats who never won anything playing for...Liverpool under the most ridiculed (on the Caf) manager ever?
Yeah, good luck. Voters would be drooling over that one, no doubt.
I did consider it to be fair. Two cracking players who formed a very good pairing. However Mascherano is hated and Alonso is seen as a liability for some reason
How can Alonso, who has played such key parts in all the trophies he has won be seen as a liability
I thought about it. They're both great players and if Mascherano hadn't stupidly signed for a team with Busquets on it, he'd be rated much higher by people, as he's a very, very good 6; A rich man's Nigel De Jong who would start for every team in the world outside of Barca, Madrid, Bayern and Juventus.
Alonso is an incredible footballer.
Alonso is an incredible footballer.
How can Alonso, who has played such key parts in all the trophies he has won be seen as a liability
Especially puzzling is that he can be paired with a proper DM or play as the 6 himself as long you don't have complete idiots alongside him.
How can Alonso, who has played such key parts in all the trophies he has won be seen as a liability
Can't remember who had him in a draft recently and had to make it a priority to replace him as he got a lot of stick. Perhaps it was the setup, where it looked like he could be easily overrun.
Sorry to break the bubble here, I really love Xabi and I think he is superb and a wonderful played and I tried to pick him myself, but he is always paired with a defensively good midfielder like Mascherano or Khedira/Lassana Diara who are great defensively, so I think there's a reason he can't play in a two man midfield with an advanced CM. I definitely don't think him and a defensive midfielder will get overrun by any midfield, but him with a not defensive midfielder or artacking central midfielder will by a good attacking wise midfield
Alonso could never run, that's why he is so cynical as well.
That's bollocks, he just has incredible positioning that allows him not to run as much.
What about Scholes?
@FromTheBench hasn't showed up since the draw...
Sorry, as in he has very little pace, so if he's beaten or misses a runner he's not getting back. Even at Liverpool the likes of Lucas was faster than him.
Doesn't need to mate. Like Carrick just better, his intelligence and positioning more than makes up for lack of pace. I don't see that as a hindrance in any of the titles he won or teams he played.
It was me and to be fair it was an all time draft, the decades one, so he was in esteem company. But you are definitely right about him being underrated even in drafts like this, for example, which is very much his generation with his peers and not draft superheroes he has to contend against.
I guess playing for Liverpool and then being overshadowed at Madrid by Barca for the next few years hurts his rep. A lot of Liverpool fans consider him as important if not more as Gerrard and Torres in that 08/09 season, and them nosediving into midtable had a lot to do with not being able to replace Alonso. Rafa tried the Lucas and Mascherano duo for a season which failed miserably as neither of them were anywhere near Alonso when it comes to setting the tempo and controlling the game.
About the setup well I had Rijkaard next to him so dunno who would have been a better partner.
He was easily Liverpool's best player that season.
Personally I just felt he was a bit of a liability defensively if he didn't have legs around him.
Liverpool were shite since he left!
Also Khedira great isn't defensively at all, Alonso is the better defensive player out of the 2.
Oops sorry. When you want to do the match ? (Not exactly sure how these things work on here.)
Whenever it's comfortable for you mate.
When we decide the date you would have to draw a formation and give a description of your team tactics and opposition instructions if any via PM to rpitroda. Since you are the home team in the fixture it is advised to keep the keeper at the top in the formation. I'll do the same and the match would begin which is a 24 hour poll.
Usually it's also a tradition, though dying a bit off late, to post "Player Profiles" in this thread, which is just a couple of lines for all players you have picked. But it's up to you if you want to do that, if you do the link would be added to the OP along with your tactical write up in the game thread and those who want to read it can do so via that link.
That's pretty much it, so let me know whenever you are okay. I can do it as early as tomorrow or even today evening (depending if trippy is available) but preferred would be tomorrow really so I don't have to hurry up with the write up. I'm not fussed either ways.
Sites to draw formations in case you haven't done this before :
www.this11.com
www.footballuser.com
www.sharemytactics.com