Have to wonder how come no club is willing to bid something for maguire or lindelof
The big summer clear out & the funds raised.
- Thread starter Insanity
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Yeah. I think they maybe naively thought by briefing to the press that every member of the squad bar the three young players had a price, two or three times over the end of the season and beginning of the summer, they'd get suitors lining up. Well, we probably suffered a lot by not getting Ashworth in until July. We need to be a lot more aggressive in pushing people out. It seems the club is actually not trying to move Maguire on, which is maybe understandable given Yoro's injury, but still.
Need to get a real shake on now. We are going into the season with a worse squad than last with pre-season injuries taken into account.
If it wasn't for Ratcliffe and the background changes made, fans would be rightly fuming at the state of the squad given the shambles of the last 12 months.
Another season of Case, Antony, Maguire, Lindelof looms. Expected at least 2 of that group shifted at least.
If it wasn't for Ratcliffe and the background changes made, fans would be rightly fuming at the state of the squad given the shambles of the last 12 months.
Another season of Case, Antony, Maguire, Lindelof looms. Expected at least 2 of that group shifted at least.
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Moyes is out of work at the moment.
It’s going to take 3 summer transfer windows to sort this shit show of a squad out, simply unviable in PSR terms to sell too many of the players.
10 of first team squad out of contract next summer and 4 the next, probably only Bruno and Amad that will be kept but won’t be many we sell for a fee let alone make a profit or even break even on.
10 of first team squad out of contract next summer and 4 the next, probably only Bruno and Amad that will be kept but won’t be many we sell for a fee let alone make a profit or even break even on.
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We're too nice for this approach unfortunately. As long as "fight for your place" remains an option, most of our deadwood will prefer to stay.
But then it weakens your position during negotiations. It only helps pushing out players who are too comfortable in their roles.
Its August and we still have so much deadwood. Lindelof, maguire, Mctominey, Casemiro should all be gone by now. Absolutely nothing will change next season. Yoro is 18 and already injured. Zirkzee is a back up rotation option who is unproven. Be lucky to get top 6 again with this squad
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Never understood the idea that a stern talking to would fix our issues on that front or is always the best option to manage players. We might retreat to that idea because of the illusion the club have power over it ?
Was hoping for more from Conte this summer. We used to be able to rely on him.
It depends on the player. If a player wants to play at all costs or the club is desperate to get rid of such playee then such strategy could work. Quite frankly I'd love us to see it used with Casemiro. The guy is shot and the least we need is more games were he confirm it
Not exactly. In that case you are inviting offers of many clubs and you are getting bidding war. And, of course, you are avoiding players argument "i will fight for my place".
Why no club is bidding for Maguire and only one or two are bidding for McT? Two proven PL players and internationals? Because "they are in manager's plans". If we do like Juve or Chelsea do then dozen of clubs would try to sign them and no way that they would refuse slight pay cut like Maguire did last summer.
I don't mind that some of us have completely different opinion regarding this but i do mind the fact that same people who moan about lack of signings/sales/results are also the ones who are against ruthless approach.
You can't have both ways. You are either ruthless or you are stuck with dross.
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Yep I think the reality has now set in after Ineos 27.7% takeover, SJR is the ultimate wheeler dealer, he injected just enough cash £120m to pay off the club’s revolving credit card. He’s not stupid which is why he’s got best in class to try and manage transfers in a more efficient way than the previous inept stupidos, however £120m doesn’t go far, especially when you realise that Agent Fees are nearly always still paid up front and at least 10% of the transfer fee.
So in reality this is the situation Dan Ashworth, Omar Berrada and Jason Wilcox all starting in a relative short time frame now have to negotiate with Agents, Clubs and players when it’s clear the club probably needs 12 or 13 players out and 7 or 8 elite players in.
The two transfers we’ve done already are rumoured to both be on instalment plans of 3 years. So Zirkzee £36m is £12m this summer plus the rumoured Agent Fee of anything from £9-12m lets say £10m, that’s £22m of the cash available already, add the £17m plus £8m agent fee of L Yoro(51m/3 = £17m per year) and that’s £47m gone already, the club just announced net losses of £71m and I wouldn’t be surprised that some of that £120m SJR invested for shares was actually used to Pay Raines commission to facilitate the sale to the Glazers, the commission was rumoured to be $31.5m(£25m)
In all likelihood £70-80m has been allocated already and United may have £50-60m of actual cash available when you add the £36m of player sales so far this summer(assuming we will only get a 1/3 if that)
Therefore when we are trying to negotiate with clubs and they want all the money upfront or maybe in two instalments, this version of United can not agree to do that and therefore are desperately scrambling around the market trying to do free/loan or permanent transfers on 3 to 4 year terms.
Last winter the club could not spend £1 on even a loan deal, and it had very little to do with PSR/FFP, it had everything to do with the club is completely skint!
The glazer’s years of financial abuse by employing absolute morons to run the club have come home to roost, SJR is a very smart man, he’ll be chipping off another 4 or 5% of their shares left for another £200-300m next summer and when the stadium is finally agreed don’t be surprised that the cost of that is maybe 15-20% in share increase to SJR for him arranging to fund the £2 billion project. It’s going to be a slow painful process so let’s strap ourselves in for yet another rollercoaster season, best way 6th or 7th place this season.
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Someone more familiar with the public accounts would maybe have a better sense of this than me but I imagine we're going to go through 3-5 years of a more frugal transfer policy. Ostensibly we're signing younger players for, hopefully, a 5 years cycle with maybe 1-3 significant additions every year from now on.
I think the club is healthy revenue-wise so it's a matter of spending smarter, making the provisions for the stadium, cleaning up some of the debt and rejoining the lucrative CL as soon as possible.
Edit : Though, really, if we spend smarter no reason to ever stop.
Yeah perhaps a harder stance is needed because like you say certain players are happy to stay on huge wages which makes like difficult
Because of the wages they're getting at United. If we said either of them wasn't in our plans we might get dozens of offers, but we'd be lucky if 1 of them matched their wages, along with paying us over £25m. Why do you think there's no way they'd refuse a pay cut? If they stay they know they'll be 3rd/4th choice but may still play 20-30 games, maybe more with injuries to others. Why's it in their interest to move to a smaller club, having less chance of winning something, and getting paid less too?
?? I don 't understand your post at all. You just repeated what i am saying
The wee summer clear out and pennies raised
I literally said the opposite of what you said. You said if we announce the players are not in our plans then we'll get loads of offers and they'll agree to leave for less wages than they get now. I said if we say they're not in our plans they know they could actually stay, be 4th choice, and still start a load of games, without taking a pay cut. So announcing they're not in our plans wouldn't actually achieve anything, apart from us maybe getting a few more unacceptable offers.?? I don 't understand your post at all. You just repeated what i am saying
When you say to player that he can stay and fight for his place (what we do) then it means what you wrote. Players know that they will be 4th choice and play 30 games per season.
"You are not in our plans" means; " Find yourself another club or you will not play at all. Even kids will play before you".
That is what Juve, Real, Celski and City are doing.
You think telling a player to find another club or they won't play at all will result in a bidding war starting, and the player accepting a pay cut to leave. Neither of those things would happen. You'd be reducing their value. They may have been told that in private, but there's no sense in doing it publically, which is what you're calling for.
The bar is super low but the pennies raised amount is already good by our standards (35m). If we do sell AWB and McTominay we might be getting close to 75m and our best years in terms of revenue from transfers. And if we sell Sancho 30m+, just set our best mark, IIRC.
Surely Lindelof is on the list of players to get rid of. He's only got a year left on his deal. You'd get 10 million for him at the very least.
AWB, Lindelof, Mctominey or Casemiro, Hannibel and Pellestri.
I'd say five of those six could and should go. I'm amazed we've not got rid already.
AWB, Lindelof, Mctominey or Casemiro, Hannibel and Pellestri.
I'd say five of those six could and should go. I'm amazed we've not got rid already.
So they go for the Poundland Raphinha instead
Too good to be true.
You'd think so, but apart from the Fenerbahce rumours last month, no-one seems to be interested. Would have thought Italian teams could afford him and may be interested too, there's still time though, especially if/when we get de Light in, he may be more amenable to leaving/
Fulham will probably be first to do our job and get us some money by selling Andreas Pereira.
Whats our sell on %
But we are in a perennial weak position selling players so it wouldn’t really matter.
Moving one of Sancho or Antony on would be a huge boost. Both would be incredible.
Seems like this is going to be more of a 2025 thing.
Our players love Manchester United Bank FC. They love the money we are sending them each week. Even AWB demands a “bonus” to get sold. Maguire did the same last year. Doesn’t matter if we tell them that they aren’t in our plans. As long as their bank account bolsters they couldn’t care less. Add to that the injuries we wade through each season and they all know that it won’t be shortage of playing time.
You can’t really blame the players for their contracts. We were daft to offer them big contracts. It’s well within their rights to request a payoff given they are taking a pay cut to move to another club. It’s business at the end of the day.
We still aren’t great at shifting players it seems. Still haven’t sold AWB, Mctominay. Sancho, Antony, maguire, lindelof are all still here. I know it’s not easy but I swear we find it the hardest amongst all top clubs to sell even our first team players forget about squad ones.
After the euphoria of signing Zirkzee and yoro in quick time, we haven’t signed anyone yet and the season begins in 10 days. We are nowhere near ready for this season yet. Getting worried now.
After the euphoria of signing Zirkzee and yoro in quick time, we haven’t signed anyone yet and the season begins in 10 days. We are nowhere near ready for this season yet. Getting worried now.
I don’t blame them. Just trying to say that money is worth more then time on the pitch (which they will get anyway, cause injuries)
People who were expecting an easy clear out just because we have new part time owners were very much in delusion. Too much damage being done, what is happening with Casemiro and Antony now will be happening with Onana next summer.
It was always going to be tough, as we saw with Maguire last season even if you can get a decent fee players are going to want a pay off to leave. That makes selling likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen and AWB very difficult. Are even rumours that some players get 50% of any fee if the plus 1 is activated at end of their contract.
Then you have the players like Casemiro, Antony and Sancho who would be such a huge loss in PSR terms that just not financially viable.
Where I think we should have done better is selling Mctominay and maybe even likes of Pellistri and Hannibal.
With exception of Antony all of players above will see their contract expire within next 2 years and may be only way to get rid of most of them.
Then you have the players like Casemiro, Antony and Sancho who would be such a huge loss in PSR terms that just not financially viable.
Where I think we should have done better is selling Mctominay and maybe even likes of Pellistri and Hannibal.
With exception of Antony all of players above will see their contract expire within next 2 years and may be only way to get rid of most of them.
You're overthinking this.
Maguire is on £190k a week. He has little incentive to take a new contract for much less than he's currently making. I'm sure he'd probably take a 4 year extension for £150k a week or something, but given his age, no one is giving him a long-term deal. He's worth maybe £100k or £120k a week if he were paid fair market value.
That means his transfer value is ZERO. Why would another team give us ANYTHING to pay him almost double what he's actually worth in wages? It makes no sense. That leaves you two options:
1) Pay off the excess wages for Maguire. Say his new wages are £100k a week on the new team. That means you have to pay him £90*52 = £4.6M in bonus to get him to accept the new wages for this year. Figure maybe another ~£5 Million in agent fees / sign on fees for leaving. That's £10M we've paid out just to get him off the books, which probably wipes out much of any fee you'd get for him (his new team giving you £25M to sign him for a 1 or 2 year deal? no). And this all presumes Maguire wants to go to this new team.
2) Keep him as a squad player and let his contract run down. Only costs you a few million in foregone fees and keeps the team more competitive for this year.
We've chosen option 2. And the mystery of why Case, Eriksen, and Antony are here all comes down to the exact same issue. They're too overpaid to net you anything in transfer fees, you'd have to use all the funds just to pay down their excess wages, and in some cases we'd have to take a huge PSR loss just to be rid of them.