Trump out and Biden in is great news, let's not pretend otherwise. But those (mostly establishment Democrats) hailing this a return to normality after a 4-year abberation are missing the point. Obviously the normality is better than Trump, but it also created Trump. The Democrats can't afford to repeat the failures that led to then losing blue-collar workers in the Rust belt during the Obama years, or the failures that led to the selection of Clinton as their candidate in 2016. On top of that, they've been massively bailed out this time by Black voters who will be far less inclined to come out in the same numbers next time if there aren't concerted efforts to address their concerns. Normality might cut it whilst Trump is still fresh in the memory, but it won't be enough to win them 2024.
The Biden Presidency
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
It's funny that within a decade these two people could be the leading figures of western conservatism
Serious question. Would you see that as progress?
It's sad that the bare minimum things like joining the Paris accord is seen as an achievement of Biden's presidency. However, that's how much bad Trump was.
I'm now #TeamEboue in going to bitch about the administration when they procrastinate in doing real humane policies
#M4A
#Forgivecollegedebt
#GreenNewDeal
#Dontdronebombweddings
I'm now #TeamEboue in going to bitch about the administration when they procrastinate in doing real humane policies
#M4A
#Forgivecollegedebt
#GreenNewDeal
#Dontdronebombweddings
It's funny that within a decade these two people could be the leading figures of western conservatism
Komala is ok but who the hell is that one below? Haley?
welcome to the resistance
nah it's Priti Patel. The Secretary of State for the Home Department in Britian.
Very right wing and anti immigration.
Does that mean Richard Madden is gonna have to protect her too?
Relatively priti cnut though.
The issue, I think, is that in many ways the Republicans have won, and in fact they have won the moment the Democrats ended up with a Biden-Harris ticket. Because it means that the Overton window in the United States remains very much skewing to the right: the next president is an old school centre-right politician while the VP-elect is a tough on crime former prosecutor - who can't even pretend that she just had to make compromises because of the political environment as she is from fecking California, the most "progressive" state in the country. I'm sure the voters would forgive her for being soft on nonviolent drug offenders.
It means that the trends still hold: the Republicans push further to the right and the Democrats are scrambling to keep up and try their hardest to be as centrist as possible to not offend anyone - we already see prominent figures blaming the more progressive/leftist candidates for the underperformance in the House election. So, in essence, it's the Republicans setting the agenda once again. They don't worry about being moderate and reaching across the aisle. As such, things like meaningful improvement to healthcare access remain a pipedream. In the foreseeable future, all that is going to happen is the Dems will keep trying to apply band aid to grenade wounds.
That's still better than another four years of Trump - but it's entirely feasible that after four years of deadlock and an administration perceived to be ineffectual, someone similarly insane comes along in 2024 and the nightmare begins again.
It's funny that within a decade these two people could be the leading figures of western conservatism
We need to leave behind the idea that certain skin tones all hold certain political viewpoints.
Patel is disgusting. Harris has enacted policy that Patel would applaud.
They are terrible people that should never be allowed to shape national policy.
It's more accurate to say that you can't attain it without doing some cnutish things or at least turning a blind eye to cnutish things. You don't have to be a straight-up cnut yourself - though it probably helps.
Priti Patel, Nikki Haley, Kamala Harris... Why can't all Indian women be like Pramila Jayapal.. Thank God Tulsi is not Indian, then we'll have the set.
Harris has done some questionable stuff, stuff I wouldn't want to defend, but she's no Priti Patel.
Patel is all talk. Harris has implemented things that Patel would swoon over.
I don't think people who have come into contact with "hostile environment" would agree that Patel is all talk.
Doesn’t the Overton window shift left and right in response to the prevailing sentiments of the general public? If you’re left leaning the current status of the window is depressing but it is what it is.
Look what happened to Corbyn the Uk general election. A genuinely progressive socalist who ticks almost all of the boxes that Biden at al leave unticked. And he had his arse handed to him by a blonde-haired buffoon who is transparently shit at his job and borderline racist.
It’s difficult to know why right wing politics has so much appeal right now. I know how tempting it is to put it all down to being brainwashed by right wing media but there has to be more to it than that. And if the only way to slow this drift to the right is by putting forward candidates who are centrist enough to win votes from both sides then so be it.
It at least buys us some breathing space to work out what the feck is going on and how a genuinely progressive agenda can be made more palatable to the majority of the electorate. Which surely isn’t a complete disaster if the alternative is (literally) letting the world burn.
Progress towards what?
It’s a fair point you make. National sentiment being shifted probably acts as a lightening rod as much as policy does.
The real resistance
A more equal society.
It wasn’t that long ago that an essential part of conservatism was a glass ceiling for anyone who is a woman or not white.
Priti Patel is obviously a thundercnut but she’s also arguable evidence that we are progressing as a society. Ditto Harris. Even if you hate her politics, she’s a powerful symbol of hope for parents of young girls of colour.
I agree with all that but it's also fecking depressing. You're basically saying we have to ride out the right-wing wave and hope it doesn't end with the actual apocalypse. And I can't say you're wrong about that and it pains me.
It’s not difficult Pogue.
They lie more. Their messaging is always better.
I’ve spent the last four years growing increasingly politically engaged. Some of my family voted for Brexit. Many are historic Tory voters. I make it my business to destroy happy family Sunday afternoons in the pursuit of dismantling a lie.
Life is tougher now. But the age old principle of “Never bring up politics or religion at a dinner party”.... it’s a state of play that serves the liars.
So many Conservative voters want EVERYTHING that a Labour manifesto offered. They would have voted for it if it had the Tory seal on the front. But the Tories tell the population that Labour leads to debt and fecklessness and it’s such a compelling argument.
Left Wing politics doesn’t give you a bogeyman. “Capitalism” is too big an idea to fight. It’s meaningless to a school teacher in Burnley. Tell that school teacher that an immigrant will take their TOTALLY SAFE job, routinely, loudly, without deviation... it’s wearing.
It’s a simple explanation with a really hard solution.
You’re a good egg. But that’s among the most misguided things I’ve ever read. It’s an endorsement of “Work hard and the cream rises to the top” Tory exceptionalism.
She’s not an empowering actor in society. She’s an outlier. Not an example that validates Tory principles.
Progressing in equality whilst regressing in morals I'd say. I'm not convinced Patel would get elected mind you.
The bit in bold was about Harris, rather than Patel. But I stand by my point about progress. The nature of progress in society is so slow that sometimes you need to take a step back to notice it. The simple fact that it would be unthinkable to have these two women talked about as “leading figures of western conservatism” a generation ago shows we’ve come a long way.
Agreed. She’s too thick. Although as soon as I typed that, I thought of Trump...
Wow, not good. She's lucky to have a clean slate as VP; let's hope she uses the office for good.
Fair point if it centred on Harris. Your overall point is solid.
But those girls don’t get to where they are without buying into the existing machine. They’re garbage people that represent tokenism of opportunity.
The pair of them are old white men in BAME skin suits.
Pretty much spot on. Progress happens slowly and you would need to look back 20 years to compare how much change has happened during that time.
liberal feminism isn't progress. neither is electing a cop in the midst of riots all across the country.
Starts at around 6:19. Weird echo for the first minute.
So here is a loaded question for whoever feels comfortable getting into it - but at least from my perspective it appears a lot of folks with Indian backgrounds and involved in politics in one way or another seem to be relatively to extremely conservative (a Dinesh D'Souza is one of those extremes for example). Obviously Harris is also quite the opposite of someone subscribing to a bunch of liberal ideas.
Why is that? Seems to obviously not just be isolated to the US as the Patel example in the UK shows, and though I havent paid attention much to Canada - I would suspect its the same there. Is that perspective wrong? And if not - why is it that way? I presume we have a bunch of folks reading this who are either Indian or of Indian descent and Im genuinely curious.
Why is that? Seems to obviously not just be isolated to the US as the Patel example in the UK shows, and though I havent paid attention much to Canada - I would suspect its the same there. Is that perspective wrong? And if not - why is it that way? I presume we have a bunch of folks reading this who are either Indian or of Indian descent and Im genuinely curious.
Harris and Patel should not represent success simply because they have more melanin.
They both, to varying degrees, victimise people that look exactly like them.
They are not the faces of progress.
I'm no expert on her biography, but one thing that stands out is growing up in Berkeley, CA, which has been a hotbed for progressive thinking for decades now. Also apparently her maternal granddad had quite progressive views, so that meant that even from the Indian side of her family it doesn't seem like she was too bombarded with conservative thought.
Indias caste system skews this question into a really complicated space.
Their whole society is kind of built on a system that says ‘Us at the top are better than everyone below us, and if anyone below us is exceptional they will come and join us through talent and hard work’.
Edit : Many Immigrants that succeed in another country see their success as evidence of them being ‘better’ than those that didn’t get ahead. Be that through social climbing or emigration. It’s really complicated.
Personally I can't wait for when we progress so far as to have Jews in the Nazi Party and blacks in the KKK
Why do people assume everyone wants free universal Healthcare. Majority dont want them.