The Biden Presidency

maniak said:
Personally, I care more about actions that words, and biden's actions are very clear, he fully supports what's happening in gaza.
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As does almost every other western leader, regardless of what comes out of their mouth. It's like we seem to forget that a lot of European nations for example never pulled their investments out of Russia and at the same time support Ukrainians who are known anti semites. (mind you, I'm fully with Ukraine on that one) - but the world is a very very grey place and ultimately the majority of powerful countries are in it for themselves and to protect their own interests. Most countries both speaking out against Israel and actually putting action to word have little to lose or gain from it.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Just a few hours ago you were criticizing a U.S. representative born in Ukraine for not voting for the aid package to Ukraine. I suppose "all politics is local" does not apply there.
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There's an existential crisis for Ukraine if we have to go through another spate of time where there is no funding like what recently occurred.

Between the two, Ukraine / Europe is more important than Gaza to US citizens due to the possibility of the war spreading from UKR; the NATO response through Article 5 will obviously engage far more of the US military than it currently does. That puts the issue squarely at kitchen tables for the average American, thus it is a local issue.

Regarding the wacko, I believe she lives in a district with a significant Ukranian, I just can't understand why she would not be looking local for her political moves. Wait, I take that back, it's obvious why she acts the way she acts.
 
Redplane said:
As does almost every other western leader, regardless of what comes out of their mouth. It's like we seem to forget that a lot of European nations for example never pulled their investments out of Russia and at the same time support Ukrainians who are known anti semites. (mind you, I'm fully with Ukraine on that one) - but the world is a very very grey place and ultimately the majority of powerful countries are in it for themselves and to protect their own interests. Most countries both speaking out against Israel and actually putting action to word have little to lose or gain from it.
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Sure, but this thread is about biden. He's been extremely supportive of israel's actions in gaza. Money, weapons and diplomatic cover. I don't see how that squares with your claim.
 
calodo2003 said:
Biden is not a 'truly awful' president.

You also have who gets more leeway backwards.
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Biden is OutTrumping 2016 Trump in some aspects. he didn't reversed or had any intention to reverse what trump did with tax cuts to the rich after saying that in day 1 he will repeal it, he is about to worsen the immigration treatment after criticizing extensively, he criticized the China trade war saying that it was wrong because he was hurting the farmers, workers and others and he even extend the trade war (not saying is bad, but he lied when he said he didn't agree), he is about to make Saudi Arabia a strategic ally after calling them a pariah country after Khasoggi and criticizing (and rightly so) for this diplomatic issue. And I am sure there are a few more easter eggs around

He is a liar, and hypocrite and don't forget a genocide complicit. So yes. I will put him as a truly awful president. Worse than Bush. Why it doesn't look like a truly awful president? because is compared with a monster like trump that he will double down and do even worse
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
These are things that happened to most countries around the world due to effects of COVID like the disruptions to shipping and the initial shock of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Almost none of what you reference is unique to the US or a direct result of Biden. In fact the largest proposed "Bidenomics" bill was never passed because of rogue Democrat sentators Sinema and Manchin blocking the main act and the GOP challenge to student debt relief. So you never really saw "Bidenomics". All you're doing here is repeating the Fox News propaganda that is devoid of accurate economic analysis.
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The pandemic excuse only gets to a certain point in any case. There’s numerous examples of other economies getting back on track sooner (although I don’t agree in comparing Europe with US). Overall, the US isn’t on track to pre-pandemic levels.

Also the economic point I made in my earlier post was only 1 factor of several I’ve mentioned with which to criticise Biden with.
 
4bars said:
Biden is OutTrumping 2016 Trump in some aspects. he didn't reversed or had any intention to reverse what trump did with tax cuts to the rich after saying that in day 1 he will repeal it, he is about to worsen the immigration treatment after criticizing extensively, he criticized the China trade war saying that it was wrong because he was hurting the farmers, workers and other he is about to make Saudi Arabia a strategic ally after calling them a pariah country after Khasoggi. And I am sure there are a few more easter eggs around

He is a liar, and hypocrite and don't forget a genocide complicit. So yes. I will put him as a truly awful president. Worse than Bush. Why it doesn't look like a truly awful president? because is compared with a monster like trump that he will double down and do even worse
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Politics has certain realities to it, it's not Candyland all the time. To constantly bash one politician without successes listed is understandable to some of the masses who are hyperbolically inclined to be against said politician. I get the hyperbole but it does get a bit taxing to see it trotted around all the time.
 
The Corinthian said:
The pandemic excuse only gets to a certain point in any case. There’s numerous examples of other economies getting back on track sooner (although I don’t agree in comparing Europe with US). Overall, the US isn’t on track to pre-pandemic levels.

Also the economic point I made in my earlier post was only 1 factor of several I’ve mentioned with which to criticise Biden with.
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Is there a country which is on track to pre-pandemic levels or has achieved it? There's a decent few metrics by which the Biden admin has tracked better vis a vis comparison to 2019.
 
4bars said:
Biden is OutTrumping 2016 Trump in some aspects. he didn't reversed or had any intention to reverse what trump did with tax cuts to the rich after saying that in day 1 he will repeal it, he is about to worsen the immigration treatment after criticizing extensively, he criticized the China trade war saying that it was wrong because he was hurting the farmers, workers and others and he even extend the trade war (not saying is bad, but he lied when he said he didn't agree), he is about to make Saudi Arabia a strategic ally after calling them a pariah country after Khasoggi and criticizing (and rightly so) for this diplomatic issue. And I am sure there are a few more easter eggs around

He is a liar, and hypocrite and don't forget a genocide complicit. So yes. I will put him as a truly awful president. Worse than Bush. Why it doesn't look like a truly awful president? because is compared with a monster like trump that he will double down and do even worse
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He can't undo the tax cuts, that was a bill passed by Congress. They expire this year and will go away as long as he is in office or the Dems control one of the houses of Congress.
 
The Corinthian said:
The pandemic excuse only gets to a certain point in any case. There’s numerous examples of other economies getting back on track sooner (although I don’t agree in comparing Europe with US). Overall, the US isn’t on track to pre-pandemic levels.

Also the economic point I made in my earlier post was only 1 factor of several I’ve mentioned with which to criticise Biden with.
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What countries economies are back on track? Also, why is comparing the US to Europe bad?
 
WI_Red said:
He can't undo the tax cuts, that was a bill passed by Congress. They expire this year and will go away as long as he is in office or the Dems control one of the houses of Congress.
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Then he is a moron when he said that he would out do it in day one or he deliberately misled the voters in his campaign
 
calodo2003 said:
Politics has certain realities to it, it's not Candyland all the time. To constantly bash one politician without successes listed is understandable to some of the masses who are hyperbolically inclined to be against said politician. I get the hyperbole but it does get a bit taxing to see it trotted around all the time.
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Oh politics is not candyland, then lets accept an open bar of lying and being a hypocrite. I find it taxing seeing diminishing the awful things that Biden had done and the only positive being less bad than trump
 
4bars said:
Oh politics is not candyland, then lets accept an open bar of lying and being a hypocrite. I find it taxing seeing diminishing the awful things that Biden had done and the only positive being less bad than trump
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He has quite a political leg to stand on through his successes, historic in some ways. Being better than Trump is only one of them.
 
calodo2003 said:
He has quite a political leg to stand on through his successes, historic in some ways. Being better than Trump is only one of them.
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I don't agree obviously. But it had been always like this between both of us
 
4bars said:
Enlighten me on the matter that you quote me then
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You seem to view politics through a Candyland prism, puppies & kitties frolicking around together on a white puffy cloud. The vagaries of politics means that societally accepted mores are kind of thrown out the window. No US politician has ever succeeded in ticking off all the 'To Do' boxes & making good on all campaign promises. It's logistically impossible to make occur those promises.
 
The Corinthian said:
The pandemic excuse only gets to a certain point in any case. There’s numerous examples of other economies getting back on track sooner (although I don’t agree in comparing Europe with US). Overall, the US isn’t on track to pre-pandemic levels.

Also the economic point I made in my earlier post was only 1 factor of several I’ve mentioned with which to criticise Biden with.
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Even if its only one point, you can't backtrack and pretend like it's not as important or saying silly things like comparing the US to Europe or other nations isn't relevant. US economic growth has far outpaced just about the entirety of the rest of the developed world. To deny that is a thing is to deny cold hard statistics. Now we can argue all day long about whether the average person has gained from it as much as they should all day long, but the economy as a whole is purring enough to lift the rest of the world with it.
 
4bars said:
I don't agree obviously. But it had been always like this between both of us
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So his historic passing of a wide swath of bills during his first two years (thankfully in an aligned government) which will benefit all citizens goes out the window due to recency bias & Biden bad?
 
calodo2003 said:
So his historic passing of a wide swath of bills during his first two years (thankfully in an aligned government) which will benefit all citizens goes out the window due to recency bias & Biden bad?
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It's amazing how you throw a genocide out the window as if it's just a minor detail in his presidency. Like sure, he's helped israel kill tens of thousands of innocents, but he also helped lots of students with their debts. How is this supposed to be a serious argument?
 
maniak said:
It's amazing how you throw a genocide out the window as if it's just a minor detail in his presidency. Like sure, he's helped israel kill tens of thousands of innocents, but he also helped lots of students with their debts. How is this supposed to be a serious argument?
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Because Gaza doesn't fly high on the radar of the vast majority US electorate if at all. There's more pressing problems at home which need addressing.
 
calodo2003 said:
Because Gaza doesn't fly high on the radar of the vast majority US electorate if at all. There's more pressing problems at home which need addressing.
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Yes, but it's on your radar, right? So how can you claim he hasn't been a terrible president?
 
maniak said:
Yes, but it's on your radar, right? So how can you claim he hasn't been a terrible president?
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I would rank Gaza fifth in political import to me.

No, he has not been a terrible president. I get the recency bias as well as one issue voters but that doesn't change the fact of Biden's successes this term.
 
calodo2003 said:
You seem to view politics through a Candyland prism, puppies & kitties frolicking around together on a white puffy cloud. The vagaries of politics means that societally accepted mores are kind of thrown out the window. No US politician has ever succeeded in ticking off all the 'To Do' boxes & making good on all campaign promises. It's logistically impossible to make occur those promises.
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Well, Sorry to expect that a president is not eagerly complicit with a genocide and not lying in his campaign on things that he can't do. Or doing the opposite of what he said.

I understand politics as a game, I understand overestimating promises or not accomplishing them, not doing the opposite. At least I expect that from the candidates that waves the banner of the most progressive option. I don't expect anything about the GOP. I actually expect them to behave like Biden (not like Trump).

I don't remember Clinton and Obama, with all its flaws, to lie in political matters (Lewinsky affair is nothing that affected macro politics) as much blatantly than Biden. At least not comparable on the level of importance

So yes. if expecting that a reasonable politician doesnt blatantly lie and being and hypocrite is living in Candyland with puppies and Kitties, Then I live in Candyland. Were are my puppies!?!?!
 
4bars said:
Well, Sorry to expect that a president is not eagerly complicit with a genocide and not lying in his campaign on things that he can't do. Or doing the opposite of what he said.

I understand politics as a game, I understand overestimating promises or not accomplishing them, not doing the opposite. At least I expect that from the candidates that waves the banner of the most progressive option. I don't expect anything about the GOP. I actually expect them to behave like Biden (not like Trump).

I don't remember Clinton and Obama, with all its flaws, to lie in political matters (Lewinsky affair is nothing that affected macro politics) as much blatantly than Biden. At least not comparable on the level of importance

So yes. if expecting that a reasonable politician doesnt blatantly lie and being and hypocrite is living in Candyland with puppies and Kitties, Then I live in Candyland. Were are my puppies!?!?!
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Adopt, don't go to a puppy mill.
 
'Politics isn't Candyland, puppies and kitties frolicking around' is an argument that works best from a position of strenght. For example if Biden had great approval ratings and were easily cruising to re-election, we could say that he is a great politician and his detractors are naive and don't understand how the world works.

But the reality is that he is incredibily unpopular and is neck-and-neck in a presidential election against a mentally deficient convicted felon. That is not where you want to be, politically.
 
Redplane said:
I just find it staggeringly dumb to think Biden is some extreme as some seem to imply. In fact, in my lifetime this is probably the most outspoken I've seen any WH member speak out against Israel as much as he has.
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For the bit in bold, this was Reagan to Israel's right-wing PM Begin during their invasion of Lebanon: "Menachem, this is a holocaust."

HW Bush
Dealing with Bibi:
As head of the State Department under president George H.W. Bush in 1990, Baker said that Netanyahu, then deputy foreign minister, was barred from the building after saying American foreign policy in the Middle East was “based on lies and distortions.”
“I barred him,” Baker said. “That may not be widely known.”
...
Conditions aid:
He said he would give Israel a massive handout, but also asked them to do something in return. According to Haaretz, it was “the first time that an American president had ever dared to tie military or economic aid to Israel with limiting settlement construction in the West Bank, Gaza or the Golan Heights.”
...
Public open fight vs AIPAC:
It’s no wonder that Thomas Dine, AIPAC’s then-executive director, still refers to Bush’s press conference as a “day that lives in infamy.” To this day, he laments that Bush “did what no other president has done: He held a special press conference on this issue and challenged not just congressional efforts to proceed with the guarantees legislation, but Israel's overall aid levels."
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...

For your first sentence:

Biden, 1982, talking to the same PM Begin about the same invasion of Lebanon that Reagan called a Holocaust:



Alexander Cockburn, 2008:
"Why did Obama chose Biden? One important constituency pressing for Biden was no doubt the Israel lobby inside the Democratic Party. Obama, no matter how fervent his proclamations of support for Israel, has always been viewed with some suspicion by the lobby. For half the life span of the state of Israel Biden has been its unswerving acolyte in the US Senate. "

Biden, 2009 to Netanyahu: “You don’t have too many friends here, buddy. I’m the one friend you do have. So call me when you need to.”

Biden, 2010: "Progress occurs in the Middle East when everyone knows there is no space between the United States and Israel."

Can't find the link now (might be paywalled), but in 2010, Hillary publicly scolded Israel over settlement expansion. It was announced while Biden was visiting. Biden had already privately supported it, making her scolding pointless. So, not just pro ethnic cleansing, but undermining his own president's policy to achieve it.

Interview, 2024:



There is a reason Biden is the single-largest recipient of Israel money in US political history. All this for a Democrat president in 2024 when the party's base is increasingly disgusted with what Israel does.
 
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maniak said:
Yes, but it's on your radar, right? So how can you claim he hasn't been a terrible president?
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Because, compared to many of his predecessors, he hasn't been. Gaza is the single most important thing in the world to you, and I respect that, but that is not the case for the vast majority of the US electorate. The economy and protecting reproductive and civil rights are higher for most of us over here. He can be both horrible on Gaza and decent on domestic policies at the same time and how a person ranks each of these will determine their overall view of what is important. Personally I think he has been a decent president based on the legislation that has passed. Did I want him to run again? Nope, and I did not vote for him in the primary, but to say he has been a terrible president is just not true unless you look at it through an incredibly narrow prism.

We all do this. As an example, look at how big the thread is for the Yemen civil war is (hint, it was started in 2017 and has exploded to 5 whole pages). How about Darfur? 50ish posts over 3 threads. Does that mean the members here do not care about the 600K+ people, mostly civilians, who have died in those wars? No, it just does not engender the interest like Gaza has.
 
calodo2003 said:
So his historic passing of a wide swath of bills during his first two years (thankfully in an aligned government) which will benefit all citizens goes out the window due to recency bias & Biden bad?
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I think the management of COVID relief had been outstanding, so trying to paliate student debt relief, not major changes as he said but he is doing what he can't. I think that in a global hyperinflation environment, his administration tackled the problem incredibly well, reducing inflation faster than any advance economy while still creating jobs. His investment plan in infrastructures seems on paper great, but we will not know the effects in long term. All this adds up to the national Debt, but it seems that debt is never a problem from US, so it might very well worth it

At the same time, the perception in the economy for the average Joe is that there is no improvements, because even if the inflation was tackled, the increase in prices are here to stay, they will not be reduced. The housing prices increase a lot and the salaries, that are now recovering, didn't increase to close the gap on the purchasing power.

The reality is that without how Biden and his administration tackled the economy, the situation would most probably be much worse but people don't tend to see that and how the macro works and if they struggle, they will not give credit to Biden. And that is because under Biden the inequality gap grew more than ever. Federal minimum salary remains the same when is obviously that it would be a good moment to do it. If not able to repeal the trump taxes to the rich, there are other ways to compensate. As much as he did great to tackle COVID and inflation and credit is due were is due, in absolute and relative terms, the poor and the middle class are worse off
 
WI_Red said:
Because, compared to many of his predecessors, he hasn't been. Gaza is the single most important thing in the world to you, and I respect that, but that is not the case for the vast majority of the US electorate. The economy and protecting reproductive and civil rights are higher for most of us over here. He can be both horrible on Gaza and decent on domestic policies at the same time and how a person ranks each of these will determine their overall view of what is important. Personally I think he has been a decent president based on the legislation that has passed. Did I want him to run again? Nope, and I did not vote for him in the primary, but to say he has been a terrible president is just not true unless you look at it through an incredibly narrow prism.

We all do this. As an example, look at how big the thread is for the Yemen civil war is (hint, it was started in 2017 and has exploded to 5 whole pages). How about Darfur? 50ish posts over 3 threads. Does that mean the members here do not care about the 600K+ people, mostly civilians, who have died in those wars? No, it just does not engender the interest like Gaza has.
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I agree absolutely on the Yemen and Darfour wars not getting the attention that they should. In absolute terms it had been a carnage and there is plenty of involvement in arms sells by the west. But as much as it is dreadful, ideologically, is not targeting a population for its ethnoreligion condition in a conflict that is lasting 80 years looking to steal the land, kiddnaping people, snipping kids, the settlement concept and at the same time consider that like a democracy with the most moral army in the world

Ideologically, the Israeli-palestina conflict is much more bunkrupt than the 2 examples that you give IMO
 
WI_Red said:
He can be both horrible on Gaza and decent on domestic policies at the same time and how a person ranks each of these will determine their overall view of what is important.
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The tension comes from the fact that some people don't think what is happening in Gaza is an issue you can rank.

The economy improved quite a bit under Pinochet, after all. But ranking that above the torture and murder of thousands of political opponents is generally considered 'wrong'.
 
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WI_Red said:
Because, compared to many of his predecessors, he hasn't been. Gaza is the single most important thing in the world to you, and I respect that, but that is not the case for the vast majority of the US electorate. The economy and protecting reproductive and civil rights are higher for most of us over here. He can be both horrible on Gaza and decent on domestic policies at the same time and how a person ranks each of these will determine their overall view of what is important. Personally I think he has been a decent president based on the legislation that has passed. Did I want him to run again? Nope, and I did not vote for him in the primary, but to say he has been a terrible president is just not true unless you look at it through an incredibly narrow prism.

We all do this. As an example, look at how big the thread is for the Yemen civil war is (hint, it was started in 2017 and has exploded to 5 whole pages). How about Darfur? 50ish posts over 3 threads. Does that mean the members here do not care about the 600K+ people, mostly civilians, who have died in those wars? No, it just does not engender the interest like Gaza has.
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It engenders more interest because western nations are actively involved in supporting one of the belligerents, which sort of makes sense that more people living in the west would be interested in it, because they think it in someway impinges on their moral sensibility that a country they live and vote in might be a part of exacerbating the conflict. The same thing applies to people in the US who support Israel for religious and cultural reasons.
 
WI_Red said:
He can't undo the tax cuts, that was a bill passed by Congress. They expire this year and will go away as long as he is in office or the Dems control one of the houses of Congress.
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Only the personal ones expire, the corporate ones don't
 
So is this Bloomberg article accurate or misleading? It says American's net worth went up under Biden, salaries outpaced inflation, cost of living went down, increased green spending, inequality narrowing, stock market booming, violent crimes falling. Pretty good on those metrics.

What Has Biden Accomplished? Look at These 10 Metrics, Not the Polls
Biden has outperformed Trump on a number of fronts, from inequality and green spending to stocks and crime. But not all.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-opinion-biden-accomplishment-data/
 
VorZakone said:
So is this Bloomberg article accurate or misleading? It says American's net worth went up under Biden, salaries outpaced inflation, cost of living went down, increased green spending, inequality narrowing, stock market booming, violent crimes falling. Pretty good on those metrics.

What Has Biden Accomplished? Look at These 10 Metrics, Not the Polls

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-opinion-biden-accomplishment-data/
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There's a lot of selective spin in the article, which itself is not an article but rather an Op-Ed.
 
The Corinthian said:
The pandemic excuse only gets to a certain point in any case. There’s numerous examples of other economies getting back on track sooner (although I don’t agree in comparing Europe with US). Overall, the US isn’t on track to pre-pandemic levels.

Also the economic point I made in my earlier post was only 1 factor of several I’ve mentioned with which to criticise Biden with.
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What specific policies of Biden contribute to the stats you quoted? Which countries are currently "on track" to pre-pandemic levels?
 
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