So based on that logic Liverpool wouldn't have appointed Paisley in 73 and he wouldn't have won 3 European Cups and 6 League titles. What a shame Liverpool didn't employ 'logic' back in 73.
The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager
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So based on that logic Liverpool wouldn't have appointed Paisley in 73 and he wouldn't have won 3 European Cups and 6 League titles. What a shame Liverpool didn't employ 'logic' back in 73.
Whilst true, it is fair to say that none of the previous assistants have been groomed for the United job in the way Giggs appears to be.
Nope. I think it's a great idea. Countless teams apply 'logic' to their managerial appointments year after year. This idea that a managers success and CV from another club is some 'guarantee' of success is a falacy. Particularly at top clubs. Fergie being the obvious exception.
Agree with all of this. In my humble opinion, Giggs doesn't have a passion for management - he has a passion to become the ManUtd manager. There is an obvious difference there.
So you disagree with using logic to make decisions and would instead prefer that the fate of the club is left up to blind hope and sentimentality. Can you not see how flawed that is?
The only argument for Giggs becoming our new manager is 'I like Ryan Giggs and he used to play for us' and that's it. It would be madness.
Players will say anything in any given situation. No way was he like Fergie - Giggs is a complete charisma free zone.
Besides, he needs to be his own person, not pretending to be like Sir Alex (as a poster wrote earlier in the thread).
This is a good way to sum it up.
Take a list of great players/figures at big clubs and see how many of them went on to become top managers. Very, very few.
All of the same arguments in favour of Giggs could have been used for Bobby Charlton and he wasn't up to being a manager. Being a top player has little effect on management ability since they're such drastically different roles that require drastically different abilities and characteristics.
So you think there is NO logic whatsoever to appointing our current assistant manager, who has all his coaching badges and will have three years as assistant manager under his belt? Fair enough.
I can see the 'logic' in it, and more, I can see something intangible in appointing Giggs the you simply won't import from outside the club. Thats what I like about the idea.
It not just about 'liking' Ryan Giggs. Its about United appointing from within and building on Ferguson's legacy. Thats the way I see it.
All the so called 'logical' candidates lead you to one place: the usual suspects - Pep, Klopp, Simeone or Ancelotti or whoever else is flavour of the month/year on the continent.
An appointment from within the club is the traditional way of doing things. Something that worked so well for many dominant teams in the past - Barca and Pep being an obvious example.
Thats why I want Giggs.
I never ever once said that Giggs being a great player meant he'd be a great manager. That isn't my argument for Giggs.
The Pep and Giggs comparisons need to stop, they have nothing in common at all, it's like saying Gerrard should take over at Liverpool because he's from within and knows the club. Pep is unique.
How many of Fergie's former assistants can be classified as successful ones? Former players?
Would Giggs doing OK in the Championship be enough for us, here? I doubt it... There is an element of a leap of faith.
Aye, but what does grooming does to prepare him better than McClaren or Queiroz?
I don't understand the question. None of Fergie's former assistants have been appointed manager of Manchester United.
You know if Carlos Q had still been assistant manager when Fergie left the majority of fans would have hailed is as a wonderful 'continuity' appointment. Or for that matter if Meulensteen was appointed I'd say some would have been quicker to welcome him than Giggs. A lot of the anti-Giggs sentiment is based on the age old 'great players don't make great managers' argument.
Thats exactly the point. It would be a leap of faith.
With the two you mentioned, they were at the club to be assistant managers, that was the end goal.
Giggs is clearly being groomed for the manager job - that is the end goal. As fans with no internal knowledge of the club, I cant tell you exactly what that means on a day to day basis, but if you teach someone how to do a job, they are going to stand a better chance of doing that job than someone who hasnt been taught (all else being equal).
Given that McClaren and Queiroz went on to become managers, it was also the end goal for them (just not at Man Utd). I really fail to see the significant difference.
For example, I have no doubt that McClaren learned a lot from Ferguson, so what's the difference?
I'd be very surprised if Giggs was appointed the next manager. But I would welcome it. It would mean the owners have considered all the options before they did it.
McClaren has been a disaster tbf.
...now follow that logic.
McClaren is actually an interesting case in point. He won the treble with United in his first season as assistant manager and that led him to Middlesborough as manager. By all account he was a success up there, certainly the record books show he was their most successful manager, winning their first major honour and qualifying the club for Europe. He left for the England job in 2006.
Now, lets think about this one. Lets say Fergie had retired in 2006. McClaren may well have been in the running for the United job. He would tick all of the boxes that those of you rejecting Giggs are looking for:
1. He had managerial experience
2. He had a proven track record (had won a league cup and reached a European final)
3. He a left United to 'prove himself'
Now in all honesty, with the benefit of hindsight, do you we think McClaren would have been the right appointment for United? So much for logic lads.
The difference, is that McClaren and Quieroz, as knowledgable as they are, they are not leaders of men. To run a team successfully, that respect, the final word, the impetus to follow must be there. Otherwise, it will all turn to pot as soon as someone breaks wind
So does being a former club captain help or hinder a manager then?
We've had two really successful managers and they were both imports. On the other side of it we've had dozens of top players and none of them ended up being top managers.
The likelihood of Giggs being the exception to the rule is so small that it's a risk not worth taking.
tbh lads..it really is a roll of the dice. Who could have foreseen what Sir Alex did. I remember my dad getting fed up with him talking about Aberdeen all the time in those early days.
It is indeed. This idea that we can review CV, list out criteria and assume finding the next successful manager of United through some kind of 'equation' is misguided. Yes a manager's track record can provide some pointers. But a job this big can see success or failure because of many intangible things. In fact, plain old luck plays a huge part in it. Perhaps the one criteria I'd look out for in a potential United manager is personality. Moyes' personality meant he was doomed from the start, LVG has a personality that will brazen things out. I have a hunch that Giggs has the personality to command respect of the players, media and (potentially) fans. But its only a hunch. A roll of the dice as you say.
His history with the club guarantees respect. That he will have that in the dressing room, is the first step, at a massive club like United. Without it (Moyes for instance), you are unlikely to succeed. I've no idea how good he is as a coach, but others can coach the team and advise regarding tactical preparation etc. He selects the team, makes the team play, he's the boss, they play for him.
His record and status within the game is unquestioned. I think you have a sound basis for your supposition. I think we're on the same page
His record and status within the game is unquestioned. I think you have a sound basis for your supposition. I think we're on the same page
Excellent. The future is bright, the future is erm...hairy?
So you are saying that if any of Fergie's assistants had been made manager they would have certainly succeeded? Or it only applies to Ryan Giggs because he's been part of teams that won 13 league titles? My main gripe is with people that assume that Giggs by virtue of working under Ferguson and Van Gaal automatically has the prerequisite credentials to compete against the very best in the game. At least you were honest in that you said that the romantic aspect of the appointment appeals to you and for that you will be willing to give a chance, stand behind him if shit hits the fan and I respect you for that even if I disagree with you.
If Giggs had that sort of record in addition to his legendary record yes that would be enough to land him the job. McClaren got burned by taking the poisoned chalice that is the England job but prior to that he had launched his career nicely.
I have long maintained that if Giggs leaves and achieves moderate success at his new club he will have my total backing. You know why? Because he'd have proven that he knows his stuff and can execute his ideas. We already know that he has the mentality to operate at this level, that he will command respect and that the fans will follow him to the end of the earth but what we do not know scares us. Can he build a team, can he set it up to win, does he have an eye to spot a game changing signing, does he have the balls to be his own man and make the huge calls and can his teams play the right way? We know that he wants to but you know what Brendan Rodgers wanted to too!
I wish we could have seen a bit more from Giggs when he took over from Moyes. Three games or whatever it was, was never enough to make up an opinion of him as a manager. If he had a couple of months we'd know a lot more regarding tactics, man management skills and, sigh...philosophy. And results of course.
Huge decision if the people in charge just hand him the job without any experience at all, except from learning from two of the best, and Moyes.
Huge decision if the people in charge just hand him the job without any experience at all, except from learning from two of the best, and Moyes.
I think Jose is gone this season. Bet he waits to see if he can get the United job.
Nope. I can see no logical reason for Giggs to become our next manager.
Neither can I.
He will have to coach another club for at least 2 - 3 seasons before coaching us.See what he can do. Anything else will be a joke. A manager that has never coached a club in his life to take the United job is ridiculous.
A lot can happen in 18 months. For one, Van Gaal could fail and the club would decide against giving the permanent job to someone from Van Gaal's inner circle.
Let's see where we are this time next year.
Let's see where we are this time next year.
So, you are proposing if we make a logical decision and the outcome is bad, we should abandon logic altogether and just rely on romance and hunch?
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