The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager

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The idea that appointing Giggs would be similar to Barca appointing Guardiola is nonsense. Pep was managing what is effectively a championship side and was doing a very good job, proving himself tactically. Giggs has managed the grand total of four dead rubber games. The people who have mentioned Giggs, will have no influence on the decision. The people who do, Ed and the Glazers, I hope will be smart and do the right thing.
 
Rory 7 said:

You take a very odd tone in your posts. Of course Manchester United shouldn't be a mid-table club and of course I wouldn't 'happily see us turned into' one. I would give Giggs time is all I'm saying, an 8th place finish in year 1 would be dreadfully disappointing obviously but provided we made progress and headed back to top four in year 2 I don't see why we shouldn't support him as our manager. You know there used to be a time when football supporters got behind a club and its manager, when they used to see the bigger picture and understood what a manager was trying to achieve. I'd love to see us be a top club with supporters who get behind a manager for the long haul. How many years of mediocrity? Manchester United should never stand for mediocrity but the reality is we can't dominate the English game ad infinitum. Personally nothing would please me more than to see Giggs installed as manager, Giggs champion local and international youth at the club and Giggs eventually lead us back to the top. That would be much much sweeter than parachuting in some 'quick fix'. As a matter of interest how long would you give a new manager of United before you'd call for the chop?
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So you would give Giggs a 2nd chance after finishing 8th?
 
A disaster waiting to happen. No experience whatsoever. We hired Moyes who had no experience at the top level and look what happened. And if things were going terrible we'd probably keep him on longer as he's a club legend.
 
Cheesy said:
He outright said he'd give Giggs another season if he did. Insane.
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Insane? Hardly insane now is it, I've given you my rationale. You know AZ finished 11th or 12th in LVGs fourth year in charge, the following year they won the Eredivise! Success isn't always linear or logical. Sometimes you have to have a bit of blind faith.
 
Ryan7 said:
A disaster waiting to happen. No experience whatsoever. We hired Moyes who had no experience at the top level and look what happened. And if things were going terrible we'd probably keep him on longer as he's a club legend.
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Moyes had no understanding of what it took to be a success at United, he was a startled bunny from day one. Giggs at least knows how to win things at United as a player here. I really wish folks would stop comparing Giggs to Moyes. There is literally no comparison.
 
Rory 7 said:
Insane? Hardly insane now is it, I've given you my rationale. You know AZ finished 11th or 12th in LVGs fourth year in charge, the following year they won the Eredivise! Success isn't always linear or logical. Sometimes you have to have a bit of blind faith.
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Would you have given Moyes another season?

Edit: Answered above.
 
Rory 7 said:
Moyes had no understanding of what it took to be a success at United, he was a startled bunny from day one. Giggs at least knows how to win things at United as a player here. I really wish folks would stop comparing Giggs to Moyes. There is literally no comparison.
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This has no bearing on how he'd do as a manager unless he just tries to be a Fergie clone.
 
Ryan7 said:
A disaster waiting to happen. No experience whatsoever. We hired Moyes who had no experience at the top level and look what happened. And if things were going terrible we'd probably keep him on longer as he's a club legend.
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The thing with Moyes was that he had a shit mentality and such he couldn't survive when he had to do things on the front foot, he failed to adjust to the demands you encounter at the top level, was out of his depth and the players quickly susssed him out. Moyes had an M.O that couldn't work at this level whichis different to Giggs because we don't know whether his ideas actually work in football. People are basically demanding that we embark on a process shallower than the one we applied in the Moyes appointment. If we do this it means we'd not have learned anything at all from that painful period and that's just a sad state of affairs.
 
Adisa said:
The idea that appointing Giggs would be similar to Barca appointing Guardiola is nonsense. Pep was managing what is effectively a championship side and was doing a very good job, proving himself tactically. Giggs has managed the grand total of four dead rubber games. The people who have mentioned Giggs, will have no influence on the decision. The people who do, Ed and the Glazers, I hope will be smart and do the right thing.
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This.

Furthermore, I just don't like the sight of him keeping his butt tight on his seat rather than moved down that technical area to pass on instructions if LVG doesn't want to. I have seen my share of assistants getting down there to give orders, so nobody will tell me Giggs can't do that.
 
Rory 7 said:
Moyes had no understanding of what it took to be a success at United, he was a startled bunny from day one. Giggs at least knows how to win things at United as a player here. I really wish folks would stop comparing Giggs to Moyes. There is literally no comparison.
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Giggs has not proven that he even has an understanding of what it takes to be a manager, when he was a player he was cog in the machine and someone else was running that machine yet you expect that to enough! Why not Keane, Neville, Cantona or Rio if that's the criteria we are hell bent on using? We know that Giggs has put in a lot of time and effort in getting his badges but without proving it on the pitch it will be a major risk because all the preparation in the world is not equal to actually doing it yourself and there are other candidates who have proven much more, in different countries, we should look at first.
 
Kakeru said:
This.

Furthermore, I just don't like the sight of him keeping his butt tight on his seat rather than moved down that technical area to pass on instructions if LVG doesn't want to. I have seen my share of assistants getting down there to give orders, so nobody will tell me Giggs can't do that.
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To be fair, I have seen Giggs giving instructions on a couple of occasions.
 
Sir Alex had various assistants who looked like they would go on to be great managers. Yes, Steve McClaren for instance. As much as I wish it were different, Giggsy isn't really giving me the impression that he's as good as all those flops. I think we'd do better with Roy Keane or Steve Bruce in charge. In Giggsy's defence, I rate him above Paul Ince.
 
Still want to see van Gaal in charge for another season or two. I think we will see the real benefit of van Gaal down the track. There is no rush with Giggs. Like most, I would love to see it happen but also dread when things go bad and the potential sack comes.
 
Are there actually people who think this would be a good idea?

Why not any other ex-player? Seems odd to think he'd be a perfect appointment just because he happened to have a longer career here and was around for an assistant manager vacancy.
 
What makes people believe that Giggs is the right man for the job? He hasnt managed any team before, he shoudl prove himself first
 
Smores said:
Are there actually people who think this would be a good idea?

Why not any other ex-player? Seems odd to think he'd be a perfect appointment just because he happened to have a longer career here and was around for an assistant manager vacancy.
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Some people are sentimental and love a bit of nostalgia in football. I agree it would be great to see but I would like to see the club back at it's best ASAP and at the moment, if that means replacing LvG at the end of this season for Pep or Ancelotti then we should seriously consider it.
 
Escobar said:
What makes people believe that Giggs is the right man for the job? He hasnt managed any team before, he shoudl prove himself first
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While I completely agree, it's all about the story. And really, that should not come into but you can't hide from it at a club like United.
 
Smores said:
Are there actually people who think this would be a good idea?

Why not any other ex-player? Seems odd to think he'd be a perfect appointment just because he happened to have a longer career here and was around for an assistant manager vacancy.
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That's unfair though, as it's actually an idea propelled by SAF, United players and LVG. They all talk about his presence in the dressing room, and seem to think he can make the transition.
 
I wish I could see it. I wish he looked like a manager, or sounded like a manager. I wish, when you saw him at the side of the pitch during a game, he had an intense look of concentration on his face, like he was analysing the game, or deeply engrossed in it. I wish he had a tendency to speak to the press and demonstrate this leadership or this considerable insight into the game, so we knew it was there. I wish there was something - ANYTHING - other than hearsay, to suggest he had the aptitude for the job. If he did, I can imagine I would still have reservations. But at least there would be some clue that this was going to work. I might be able to get behind this romantic notion if the evidence it will work was there before my own eyes, rather than passed on from Fergie or Van Gaal or someone else personally associated with Giggs. As it is, when I do see him during games, he invariably looks like he's daydreaming (which is not to say he is). And when he speaks, I cant remember anything surprising or noteworthy ever coming out of his mouth. (Again, that doesnt mark him as any worse than most managers, much of what everyone says is meaningless mediaspeak). But still, it would be nice if he came out and said something that made you sit up and say, wow, that is really insightful / interesting, or he really has complete conviction about how he wants to do things. Then we'd have some idea of what his proposition is.
 
He's an English ex footballer. He's unlikely to say anything interesting, ever. Who's the last one that did that isn't a Sky pundit fed his angle for the day? In fact, which is the last semi intelligent English footballer who had something insightful to say about football at all?
 
Escobar said:
What makes people believe that Giggs is the right man for the job? He hasnt managed any team before, he shoudl prove himself first
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Don't see many on here thinking this is a good idea. For all we know he'd be a massive success but if he fails, it'd be very uncomfortable. After Moyes I'm not so sure the owners and Woodward will go for anything other than proven managers.
 
Dans said:
He's an English ex footballer. He's unlikely to say anything interesting, ever. Who's the last one that did that isn't a Sky pundit fed his angle for the day? In fact, which is the last semi intelligent English footballer who had something insightful to say about football at all?
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Gary Neville was insightful before he became a pundit. Teddy Sherringham is another that springs to mind.

But you have a point. This is connected to why there are so few English managers I guess.

Simon Kuper thinks it is because football is so deeply rooted in working class culture in England, having an education is almost something to be embarrassed about in football. Too much "lad" culture, not enough attention to critical thinking. Apparently, in Holland, Spain, France and other European countries you get a lot more footballers with degrees, who have spent time developing their minds in other areas, which then helps them think differently about the game and tactics. Helps them think outside the box.
 
Agree with you completely.

There's no hope for England.

Don't agree about Teddy Sheringham btw.

Neville is obviously a bit of a freak.
 
The Giggs/Moyes comparisons need to stop. If anything (and as I mentioned in the OP) - the Moyes experiment shows that having years of experience at a decent club, does not in any way qualify a manager to succeed at United. Appointing Giggs after LVG would be nothing like appointing Moyes.

Second, the notion that if Giggs was in charge, the board would be prepared to accept year after year of dross without removing him, is absurd. Again, if anything I think it would be the opposite, that everyone would acknowledge that Giggs was a bit of a gamble (including Giggs himself) and if it wasnt working, I suspect he would be the first to tender his resignation if a better alternative was available.


Adebesi said:
I wish I could see it. I wish he looked like a manager, or sounded like a manager. I wish, when you saw him at the side of the pitch during a game, he had an intense look of concentration on his face, like he was analysing the game, or deeply engrossed in it. I wish he had a tendency to speak to the press and demonstrate this leadership or this considerable insight into the game, so we knew it was there. I wish there was something - ANYTHING - other than hearsay, to suggest he had the aptitude for the job.
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I get your point but you have exaggerated a bit. When I see Giggs in the dugout he normally looks like he is concentrating and focusing on the game, and there is clearly more than just hearsay at work.
 
Walrus said:
The Giggs/Moyes comparisons need to stop. If anything (and as I mentioned in the OP) - the Moyes experiment shows that having years of experience at a decent club, does not in any way qualify a manager to succeed at United. Appointing Giggs after LVG would be nothing like appointing Moyes.

Second, the notion that if Giggs was in charge, the board would be prepared to accept year after year of dross without removing him, is absurd. Again, if anything I think it would be the opposite, that everyone would acknowledge that Giggs was a bit of a gamble (including Giggs himself) and if it wasnt working, I suspect he would be the first to tender his resignation if a better alternative was available.




I get your point but you have exaggerated a bit. When I see Giggs in the dugout he normally looks like he is concentrating and focusing on the game, and there is clearly more than just hearsay at work.
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If they judge him purely and simply as a manager and forget his past as a player, then i'd agree with you about it being absurd.
 
Pep also proved in his year managing Barcelona B that he might be a special manager in the making. Giggs would at the very least have to work successfully with the U21's or manage a year or two in the championship before earning a right to be considered. Appointing him without seeing what he can do first is total madness
 
Walrus said:
The Giggs/Moyes comparisons need to stop. If anything (and as I mentioned in the OP) - the Moyes experiment shows that having years of experience at a decent club, does not in any way qualify a manager to succeed at United. Appointing Giggs after LVG would be nothing like appointing Moyes.

Second, the notion that if Giggs was in charge, the board would be prepared to accept year after year of dross without removing him, is absurd. Again, if anything I think it would be the opposite, that everyone would acknowledge that Giggs was a bit of a gamble (including Giggs himself) and if it wasnt working, I suspect he would be the first to tender his resignation if a better alternative was available.




I get your point but you have exaggerated a bit. When I see Giggs in the dugout he normally looks like he is concentrating and focusing on the game, and there is clearly more than just hearsay at work.
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From where Im sitting its hearsay. Becks says he'd be great, Van Gaal says he'd be great, Fergie says he'd be great. But I see no evidence other than these second hand reports. That's what I mean.

And to me he looks like he is thinking about what he fancies for dinner. But I did concede that doesnt prove anything.

On the last point you made in the first part of your post, that is in itself a problem. What would be the point in having a manager - a completely inexperienced manager - who we werent prepared to actually stand by and give a chance to? What would be the point in giving him the job if we had so little conviction in our decision we would bail at the first sign of trouble?

This is the problem. Whatever you do, its a risk. Yes yes, its a risk no matter who you appoint. But with others, you have a track record giving you a modicum of comfort that, if things arent going right, he may turn it around. Without that evidence youre just sitting there, panicking, finger on the eject-a-seat button, waiting to bail - OR, deciding that you were going to give him a chance to prove himself, be patient, on nothing but a prayer.
 
Adebesi said:
On the last point you made in the first part of your post, that is in itself a problem. What would be the point in having a manager - a completely inexperienced manager - who we werent prepared to actually stand by and give a chance to? What would be the point in giving him the job if we had so little conviction in our decision we would bail at the first sign of trouble?

This is the problem. Whatever you do, its a risk. Yes yes, its a risk no matter who you appoint. But with others, you have a track record giving you a modicum of comfort that, if things arent going right, he may turn it around. Without that evidence youre just sitting there, panicking, finger on the eject-a-seat button, waiting to bail - OR, deciding that you were going to give him a chance to prove himself, be patient, on nothing but a prayer.
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This is a fair point, but we are talking about the sort of difference between LVGs first year and Moyes'. Under Moyes it wasnt just that the performances were bad, it was that there didnt seem to be any plan, any light at the end of the tunnel, any signs of improvement. Under LVG our performances have still been poor at times, however it was obvious that there was a clear system and structure and - yes, philosophy - in place, and that the team was going to take time to adapt to it.

If Giggs fell into the Moyes category of simply looking out of his depth and not appearing to have a plan, I suspect he would go after his first year. If however there were indications that we were building towards something and that there was potential, he would likely get more time.
 
There's zero reason to appoint a risk when there are proven managers available, If we don't get Pep City will, then there'll be Klopp at Liverpool, Mourinho at Chelsea and Wenger at Arsenal, while we'd have a guy with zero experience to try and keep us competitive, and we'd do this all because he's a club legend.
 
Walrus said:
The Giggs/Moyes comparisons need to stop. If anything (and as I mentioned in the OP) - the Moyes experiment shows that having years of experience at a decent club, does not in any way qualify a manager to succeed at United. Appointing Giggs after LVG would be nothing like appointing Moyes.

Second, the notion that if Giggs was in charge, the board would be prepared to accept year after year of dross without removing him, is absurd. Again, if anything I think it would be the opposite, that everyone would acknowledge that Giggs was a bit of a gamble (including Giggs himself) and if it wasnt working, I suspect he would be the first to tender his resignation if a better alternative was available.




I get your point but you have exaggerated a bit. When I see Giggs in the dugout he normally looks like he is concentrating and focusing on the game, and there is clearly more than just hearsay at work.
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One could equally argue that the Moyes experiment shows that years of managerial experience at a decent club has shown to be not enough. And that therefore 0 years of experience is even worse.
I agree with your second point, but it does seem that there are some posters here that would accept the club drifting around 8th in the table for a year or two, which is rather worrying.
 
Walrus said:
This is a fair point, but we are talking about the sort of difference between LVGs first year and Moyes'. Under Moyes it wasnt just that the performances were bad, it was that there didnt seem to be any plan, any light at the end of the tunnel, any signs of improvement. Under LVG our performances have still been poor at times, however it was obvious that there was a clear system and structure and - yes, philosophy - in place, and that the team was going to take time to adapt to it.

If Giggs fell into the Moyes category of simply looking out of his depth and not appearing to have a plan, I suspect he would go after his first year. If however there were indications that we were building towards something and that there was potential, he would likely get more time.
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Id love to have some inkling about what his philosophy, his plan, might be. That's part of what I was alluding to a couple of posts ago. Van Gaal and Fergie are very different - the one thing they have in common is the biggest thing Giggs lacks: they are larger than life, they are terrifying. Giggs isnt. And that isnt something you can learn. If he tries to be something he isnt, IMO he is LESS likely to succeed, not more. He has more chance if he develops what he is strong in himself, rather than trying to replicate the greats he has worked under. Beyond that, what? Counter attacking? Possession?

I know it is unrealistic for him to communicate any of this in the current circumstances. And yet I would feel more comfortable knowing. But I guess we have to take some comfort from the fact that he will have to explain all this to the board, we just have to trust they will make the right decision.
 
On a side note, Scholes has proven spending donkey years at a club under a manager doesn't make you adept tactically or gives you a lot of knowledge about the game. I am very disappointed when I hear him speak especially when he's making tactical analysis.
 
Rory 7 said:
Insane? Hardly insane now is it, I've given you my rationale. You know AZ finished 11th or 12th in LVGs fourth year in charge, the following year they won the Eredivise! Success isn't always linear or logical. Sometimes you have to have a bit of blind faith.
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You entire criteria around appointing Giggs as manager is that he played for us, and you like the idea of building from within. Nothing to do with managerial ability, or how he'd actually work as manager. Surely you can see it's ridiculous to give someone a position without even thinking about whether they're suited to the job you're taking?

You say you lost faith in Moyes around February. What would Giggs have that would allow you to keep faith in him if he had a similar season?
 
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