The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager

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Raoul said:
If he gets the job then I'm sure most of us will get behind him. What we're discussing at this point is the skewed logic of appointing a candidate who has never managed a club, let alone one of the biggest clubs in the world. I'm sure Fergie and LvG are both campaigning for this and Ed is already on board, but that doesn't make it right and we need look no further than Moyes as evidence that managers selecting their successors is a horrible idea.
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You said;

Raoul said:
Just because he's being groomed doesn't mean there is any increased chance of him being successful.
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I was simply responding to the notion that being groomed for the position etc means absolutely nothing, which I think is an unfair and pretty silly statement. It is one of (but not the only) factor which I think contribute to Giggs' merits.

The counter argument to "experience" is, for me, the same one I brought out in the OP, and that is that in my opinion at least, having experience managing a lesser club will not help or qualify Giggs to manage United. You mention Moyes, and I bring that up too as proof that managing a smaller (but not that small - Everton are a pretty big club all things considered) club well, does not equip you to manage United.

Going on from the above, I think that Giggs' role, knowledge and experience from within the club is of more value than managing Everton. Basically I would say that Giggs is more qualified to manage United than Moyes was. The only experience that is really of any value would be at a club of similar size to United - there aren't many of those, and even then you can argue that the responsibilities of the manager can be quite different in our setup compared with others (this is the discussing I was having on the previous page I think about the various merits of a DoF, which is another issue entirely). The trade off for getting someone with that experience is that they will normally be a very well established manager like LVG was/is, who will want to bring in their own people, introduce their own training methods, change the formula etc.
 
@Walrus my argument is that if Giggs' supposed merits can be equated to Phelan then he should not be a favourite for the job, period. If Van Gaal gets sacked in the summer why would we want to continue on the route that he set us on when he failed, Bayern didn't and neither did Barca but they turned out alright. All the factors you stack up in Giggs' favour are at best circumstantial or can apply to many people ranging from Phelan to Ole (people who actually coached under Ferguson) so what makes Giggs so special? His playing history? Well Scholes has that too!

The fact is that Giggs is an unknown quantity in managerial terms and as such he is a huge risk. Giggs is his own man, he is not Van Gaal lite so expecting him to build on what LvG would have left is rather hopeful because he has a very different football education and as such he is likely build the team to reflect that background under which he enjoyed so much success as a player. So him being a continuity candidate is just as baseless.

I have no problem with whatever system a manager comes in to employ as long as he can implement that style effectively. What we need is proof that Giggs can author such a system and lay it out practically to success. This uncertainty puts him behind a plethora of candidates who have done it on their own.
 
Rodgers getting the can reminds me once again how hard it is to back a guy without a proven track record when sh!t hits the fan. Moyes was the perfect example really.
 

Ryan Giggs would be Manchester United manager now had he retired at 35, says Sir Alex Ferguson
Winger was seen as likely successor to Scot but the manager did not want to stop him playing, he reveals in a new BBC documentary

Sir Alex Ferguson has revealed the images that have inspired him throughout his football career – and claimed that Ryan Giggs would have succeeded him as Manchester United manager had he stopped playing at the age of 35.

The former United manager also said that his father, Alexander, once never spoke to him for seven months, from which he learnt the power of sometimes staying silent, and how he was “annoyed” by the phrase, coined by Mark Hughes, that he gave his players the “hairdryer treatment”.

In the documentary Sir Alex Ferguson: Secrets of Success to be screened on BBC One at 10:30pm on Sunday Oct 11, Ferguson speaks about the “arrogance” of the Liverpool ‘Spice Boys’, with their cream suits before the 1996 FA Cup final, and how they “embarrassed” a great club and showed a lack of discipline.

At the same time Ferguson felt that he had to protect Eric Cantona from the “mob” after his notorious ‘kung-fu’ kick on a Crystal Palace fan and how the other United players thought he treated the striker like a “prodigal son”. Ferguson says: “He was an amazing human being.”

The film is based around an examination of Ferguson’s management style, which has recently been discussed in the book Leading, authored with the venture capitalist Michael Moritz, although there is an interesting admission from Professor Anita Elbrese, of the Harvard Business School, that the Scot’s belief that “the manager has to be the biggest personality... does not translate to many other businesses”.

Ferguson talks about the image of Canada geese flying in formation as they head for warmer climes. “Oh yeah, geese,” he says. “It’s a fantastic story, how they fly 4,000 miles from Canada to some warm climate. They go in two ‘Vs’ and the ones in the front would do most of the flying and then they would change over. If one goes away feeling unwell then two others would look after it.”

The film then cuts to Giggs who says: “There would be birds, overhead, flying and it would be in the middle of training and he’d stop training and go ‘right, all look up to sky. You see them birds?’ And they would be in an arrow formation. ‘That’s teamwork?’ [Ferguson would say] and you can imagine 20-odd players looking up to the sky thinking ‘what’s he on about’.”

It then returns to Ferguson, who says: “These geese fly 4,000 miles for a bit of sun. All I am asking you to do is play 38 games to win the league. It’s not too much to ask for.”

Indeed he chose to use the team-work analogy in a motivational speech delivered to the European team before the Ryder Cup last year, with captain Paul McGinley revealing: “It was a phrase we used, ‘remember the geese’. And the thing about it is when we won and we were getting our photograph taken this perfect ‘V’ of geese flew right over their [the players] heads and the clubhouse behind.”

Another image constantly used by Ferguson is Lunch Atop a Skyscraper, the iconic Depression-era photograph shot in 1932 of 11 men sitting on a girder with their legs dangling over New York. A copy of the photo used to hang in Ferguson’s office at the United training ground. “Every year I’d bring the apprentices into the office and would say ‘tell me what do you think of that photograph’,” Ferguson says. “And they would look at it and of course they'd all be twitchy and nervous and I would say ‘there are 11 there, there are 11 members in a team. They’ve built the Rockefeller centre back in the Twenties and they lost lives’. And I said ‘there is no bigger sacrifice than giving your life to the team’.” In the film Cristiano Ronaldo – one of many figures interviewed – says it was a talk that is a “fantastic memory” for him of his time at the club.

Ferguson talks proudly of his upbringing in Govan, where he developed his obsession with timekeeping and discipline. He also reveals the lesson he learnt from his father after Ferguson resisted joining the semi-professional – or junior – ranks as a young man. “He did not speak to me for seven or eight months because he wanted me to go to junior to protect me if I didn’t make it in senior football”.

It was a harsh lesson that taught Ferguson the power of sometimes staying silent – something he did during the half-time interval when his United were trailing 3-0 away against Tottenham Hotspur in 2001. “Quiet moments,” he says. “I never said a word until they were going back out and I said ‘the next goal is a winner’.” United famously won that match 5-3.

Ferguson says that Giggs, now Louis van Gaal’s assistant, would now be in charge at Old Trafford had he not continued playing until he was 40. “If Ryan Giggs had retired six, seven years ago,” Ferguson says. “Say he had retired at, say, 35, quite likely I would have made him my assistant and quite likely he could have moved straight into the job with the experience of being an assistant manager to me as he is doing with Louis Van Gaal at the moment. But I would never have asked a player to quit.” The film cuts to Giggs, who remarks, incredulous: “He said that?... It would have been great for me personally to work under Sir Alex.”

Ferguson again defends David Moyes’s ill-fated appointment. “I don’t think we made a mistake at all. I think we chose a good football man who had done a great job at Everton, 11 years there. We picked the right man. Unfortunately it didn’t work for David. There is this continual thing about ‘we left an old team’ and all that nonsense. We won the league by 11 points. It’s unbelievable. The average age of my teams consistently, in all the 20 years from when we started to win the championship, was 27 to 28. Every year.”

Ferguson adds of the search for his successor that it was “absolute nonsense” to suggest it was his sole decision adding: “We would have liked to have spoken to many managers, believe me, because that’s the process, and have asked them how they felt about leaving a big club and going to an even bigger club in Manchester United but it was not there for us. We did the best under the circumstances we were in.”
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He also seems to refute leaving the club in a poor state and the hiring of David Moyes. But Giggs as next United manager as strengthened.
 
itso 7 said:
@Walrus my argument is that if Giggs' supposed merits can be equated to Phelan then he should not be a favourite for the job, period. If Van Gaal gets sacked in the summer why would we want to continue on the route that he set us on when he failed, Bayern didn't and neither did Barca but they turned out alright. All the factors you stack up in Giggs' favour are at best circumstantial or can apply to many people ranging from Phelan to Ole (people who actually coached under Ferguson) so what makes Giggs so special? His playing history? Well Scholes has that too!

The fact is that Giggs is an unknown quantity in managerial terms and as such he is a huge risk. Giggs is his own man, he is not Van Gaal lite so expecting him to build on what LvG would have left is rather hopeful because he has a very different football education and as such he is likely build the team to reflect that background under which he enjoyed so much success as a player. So him being a continuity candidate is just as baseless.

I have no problem with whatever system a manager comes in to employ as long as he can implement that style effectively. What we need is proof that Giggs can author such a system and lay it out practically to success. This uncertainty puts him behind a plethora of candidates who have done it on their own.
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I agree with this.

@Walrus makes the case that Moyes was unable to make the leap from Everton to United, and hence managing a lesser club doesn't have much value. In the words of Meulensteen, I'd argue that that this is simply a case of Moyes being unable to manage a cruise ship, having captained a yacht. Giggs has worked on a cruise ship and seen people captaining the ship, but has captained no ship (except on autopilot at the end of Moyes's tenure). Unless he has demonstrated extraordinary capabilities as a manager I wouldn't risk his appointment, no matter how romantic the notion is. Does he have the tactical nous of Mourinho? I doubt it. Does he have the staggering man-management and motivational powers of Ferguson? I doubt it. Is he a visionary coach? I doubt it. Will he be a canny operator in the transfer market? I doubt it. Does his amazing playing ability translate into management skills? I doubt it.
 
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Giggs is going to be LVGs successor, some of you need to accept this. Personally I can't wait to see how he does. I'm optimistic...
 
afrocentricity said:
Giggs is going to be LVGs successor, some of you need to accept this. Personally I can't wait to see how he does. I'm optimistic...
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You may be right that Giggs is going to take over. That doesn't mean it's what should happen and it certainly doesn't mean discussion should therefore close down.
 
McUnited said:
I agree with this.

@Walrus makes the case that Moyes was unable to make the leap from Everton to United, and hence managing a lesser club doesn't have much value. In the words of Meulensteen, I'd argue that that this is simply a case of Moyes being unable to manage a cruise ship, having captained a yacht. Giggs has worked on a cruise ship and seen people captaining the ship, but has captained no ship (except on autopilot at the end of Moyes's tenure). Unless he has demonstrated extraordinary capabilities as a manager I wouldn't risk his appointment, no matter how romantic the notion is. Does he have the tactical nous of Mourinho? I doubt it. Does he have the staggering man-management and motivational powers of Ferguson? I doubt it. Is he a visionary coach? I doubt it. Will he be a canny operator in the transfer market? I doubt it. Does his amazing playing ability translate into management skills? I doubt it.
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Its difficult to draw comparisons between managing United and "regular" jobs, but I will give it a try.

I worked in a phone shop for five years, started as a part time sales advisor, ended up as an assistant manager. I dont quite claim to be the Ryan Giggs of Vodafone, but by the end of my tenure there, I knew how to run the place. We had external managers and candidates who came and went, and despite the management experience they had elsewhere, there was always a lengthy transition as they had to come in and learn all the systems, processes, staff etc, and even months and months after they had been in the store, they still only had a pretty basic grasp of what they were doing - and were asking me (and the other senior staff) "how do I do this?" or delegating decisions simply because they didnt know the answer.
Does this mean that if I was made manager of the store, I would have been a roaring success, a "visionary" as you put it? No, but I think I would have had just as good a chance of succeeding as any external candidate, if not better.

Its not a perfect comparison by any means, but there are some parallels, and I really think a lot of people here are undervaluing the extensive knowledge Giggs has from being in the club as a player and assistant manager.
 
So they picked the "right man" but didn't had the choice?
 
I think people undervalue the extensive knowledge other people have from winning lots of trophies at different clubs.

It's one thing appointing Giggs if there are a lack of alternatives, it's another appointing him over the like of Pep, Ancelotti or whoever if they're available. The sense of dread I would feel...
 
Walrus said:
Its difficult to draw comparisons between managing United and "regular" jobs, but I will give it a try.

I worked in a phone shop for five years, started as a part time sales advisor, ended up as an assistant manager. I dont quite claim to be the Ryan Giggs of Vodafone, but by the end of my tenure there, I knew how to run the place. We had external managers and candidates who came and went, and despite the management experience they had elsewhere, there was always a lengthy transition as they had to come in and learn all the systems, processes, staff etc, and even months and months after they had been in the store, they still only had a pretty basic grasp of what they were doing - and were asking me (and the other senior staff) "how do I do this?" or delegating decisions simply because they didnt know the answer.
Does this mean that if I was made manager of the store, I would have been a roaring success, a "visionary" as you put it? No, but I think I would have had just as good a chance of succeeding as any external candidate, if not better.

Its not a perfect comparison by any means, but there are some parallels, and I really think a lot of people here are undervaluing the extensive knowledge Giggs has from being in the club as a player and assistant manager.
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If I was in charge of hiring a manager for your shop I would bring in a visionary. Not a man content to learn the existing systems and keep things ticking over. A man who will surround himself with people who can advise him about the existing systems, while looking at ways to improve those systems. A man who will take the fight to T Mobile and O2. Not a man who knows this shop inside out, but a man who has taken a 2-bit market stall and turned it into a global player in telecommunication sales.
 
I am totally against this idea and don't care what anyone says even Fergie. The last guy he recommended was a disaster. Until I hear Ed's opinion on the issue I wouldn't say anything is a given. I am sure SAF and Van Gaal will have no influence on who takes over.
 
Adisa said:
I am totally against this idea and don't care what anyone says even Fergie. The last guy he recommended was a disaster. Until I hear Ed's opinion on the issue I wouldn't say anything is a given. I am sure SAF and Van Gaal will have no influence on who takes over.
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Completely agree. It would be criminal if we are not trying to get Pep from now. We need to sort this early. I don't care if LVG wants an extension because we shouldn't give it him. Let him do the three years and prepare for post LVG from now.
 
Amazing that he still thinks Moyes was a good choice.

I mean I understand their friends and I could see him defending Moyes as a manger while accepting that maybe he just wasn't suited to manage United... but just to insist that we got the appointment right after how much of a disaster it was is pretty silly.
 
Walrus said:
Its difficult to draw comparisons between managing United and "regular" jobs, but I will give it a try.

I worked in a phone shop for five years, started as a part time sales advisor, ended up as an assistant manager. I dont quite claim to be the Ryan Giggs of Vodafone, but by the end of my tenure there, I knew how to run the place. We had external managers and candidates who came and went, and despite the management experience they had elsewhere, there was always a lengthy transition as they had to come in and learn all the systems, processes, staff etc, and even months and months after they had been in the store, they still only had a pretty basic grasp of what they were doing - and were asking me (and the other senior staff) "how do I do this?" or delegating decisions simply because they didnt know the answer.
Does this mean that if I was made manager of the store, I would have been a roaring success, a "visionary" as you put it? No, but I think I would have had just as good a chance of succeeding as any external candidate, if not better.

Its not a perfect comparison by any means, but there are some parallels, and I really think a lot of people here are undervaluing the extensive knowledge Giggs has from being in the club as a player and assistant manager.
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An interesting analogy, although, as you say, managing a phone shop isn't quite the same as managing a football club. Would you have been a good motivator of the staff to achieve their best? Would you have recruited well? Would you have organised their training? When you had a sales competition with O2, would you have devised the tactics to beat them? Would you have kept discipline well? How would you have handled a problematic employee? These are all skills that wouldn't have been tested until you actually become the boss.

I think it ultimately comes down to how much you value the knowledge Giggs will have picked up by the time LvG retires/is sacked. For some, they'd rather have his club and culture knowledge in place and hope the managerial side is picked up along the way. For others, they'd rather the managerial skills were already in place, and for the club/culture to be picked up along the way.

If he were to succeed LvG, I would of course hope he proves my fears to be unfounded - it would another chapter to the romantic storyline of the club's history. Whether this turns out to be the case is another matter...
 
Adebesi said:
If I was in charge of hiring a manager for your shop I would bring in a visionary. Not a man content to learn the existing systems and keep things ticking over. A man who will surround himself with people who can advise him about the existing systems, while looking at ways to improve those systems. A man who will take the fight to T Mobile and O2. Not a man who knows this shop inside out, but a man who has taken a 2-bit market stall and turned it into a global player in telecommunication sales.
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:lol: fair enough, its a flawed comparison. I agree that we (United now, not the phone shop) want someone with a vision for how to take the club forwards. I just think that with the foundations that LVG lays in place, Giggs (having worked with/under LVG as assistant manager) will be able to take it forwards, and in an organic way that doesnt create a damaging transitional period.
 
McUnited said:
An interesting analogy, although, as you say, managing a phone shop isn't quite the same as managing a football club. Would you have been a good motivator of the staff to achieve their best? Would you have recruited well? Would you have organised their training? When you had a sales competition with O2, would you have devised the tactics to beat them? Would you have kept discipline well? How would you have handled a problematic employee? These are all skills that wouldn't have been tested until you actually become the boss.

I think it ultimately comes down to how much you value the knowledge Giggs will have picked up by the time LvG retires/is sacked. For some, they'd rather have his club and culture knowledge in place and hope the managerial side is picked up along the way. For others, they'd rather the managerial skills were already in place, and for the club/culture to be picked up along the way.

If he were to succeed LvG, I would of course hope he proves my fears to be unfounded - it would another chapter to the romantic storyline of the club's history. Whether this turns out to be the case is another matter...
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Its a flawed comparison as you point out, but I think a lot of the "managerial" attributes can be learnt by observing established bosses and how they handle things. To go back to my phone shop, I worked under probably about 10 different managers while I was there, and picked up little habits and behaviours that I felt I could utilise as well - how to deal with specific situations, how to present information in a way that individuals will listen to it and respond in the desired way...etc.

What you cant learn is that raw charisma and "visionary" element that @Adebasi describes, and that is the area where Giggs is indeed unproven. It is on this argument that I take the "defer to authority" approach - that basically those inside the club should have a much better idea than we do as fans, of Giggs' quality in this area, and that if he is appointed then surely that in itself will be proof enough that he isnt going to be a complete "dud", because otherwise he simply wouldnt have been appointed.

I also refer back to something I mentioned earlier in this thread after watching The Class of '92 (well worth a watch), and the way that the other players spoke about Giggs, and his leadership qualities. Obviously you take that sort of thing with a pinch of salt, but to me at least, it certainly implied that there was a side of Giggs that we (as fans) dont really see. Its something to consider.
 
Emotions had taken over the great man. He's still brilliant but he's compromised and had been so for a long long time
 
I can't quite decide on whether this would be a good appointment or not.

On the one hand he knows the club so well, he knows all about the traditions of the club and expectations. He's worked with one of the greatest managers of all time and he's been a part now of a less successful period. He'd also I'm sure look to bring back some of the attacking flair that is traditional to the club.

But on the other hand is the job going to be too much for him? LVG is supposed to be setting the team up for the next manager. Such that few tweaks will be needed but I'm not convinced that's happening. Our style of play isn't working and I don't see that changing. Problem is LVG is signing players that fit that style and so the team lacks pace in key areas. The other issue is that by the time it comes to replace LVG we will have been through at least 3 seasons without any silverware. The pressure and demand for success may be too high. It is for that reason alone that he board may decide to with someone with a proven track record.

For Giggs to be a success he would need to surround himself with really proven and experienced backroom staff.

It's a risk but then most appointments are. There's no guarantee that Ancelotti would be a success though he's done well in England before and wherever he goes tends to win things.
 
I'm happy to go on record as saying that if we do indeed allow Van Gaal to see through his contract and then replace him with Ryan Giggs, we'll see our club facing a Liverpool-like fall from grace on a long term basis.

Van Gaal is a good manager but is stubborn and not ideally cut out for this league. Under him we should make the top 4 but that's all I'd really expect (major competition wise) and I worry that we'll stagnate under his tactics.

If Giggs is next in line I simply don't see it working out. He's never given an interview or seemed much like he really knows much about being a manager and always looks lost on the touchline. I also suspect that the club would stand by him for some time.

I can imagine that a few years of challenging for a top 4 spot, followed by a poor run under Giggs would see us becoming far less attractive to players. If Liverpool get Klopp then I think we'll fall behind yet further too. He's not the greatest but he's exactly what they need.

Hopefully we'll see sense before this happens though.
 
Walrus said:
Its difficult to draw comparisons between managing United and "regular" jobs, but I will give it a try.

I worked in a phone shop for five years, started as a part time sales advisor, ended up as an assistant manager. I dont quite claim to be the Ryan Giggs of Vodafone, but by the end of my tenure there, I knew how to run the place. We had external managers and candidates who came and went, and despite the management experience they had elsewhere, there was always a lengthy transition as they had to come in and learn all the systems, processes, staff etc, and even months and months after they had been in the store, they still only had a pretty basic grasp of what they were doing - and were asking me (and the other senior staff) "how do I do this?" or delegating decisions simply because they didnt know the answer.
Does this mean that if I was made manager of the store, I would have been a roaring success, a "visionary" as you put it? No, but I think I would have had just as good a chance of succeeding as any external candidate, if not better.

Its not a perfect comparison by any means, but there are some parallels, and I really think a lot of people here are undervaluing the extensive knowledge Giggs has from being in the club as a player and assistant manager.
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Well maybe.

1. They didnt hire a good enough replacement. If a manager of dixon get sacked and replaced with google manager it'll be a different story, he'll be bringing new ideas and people will respect him.

2. People respect you, but unless you're a darn good visionary, you'd probably just keeps the tick ticking, doing what you've been doing. Will you be able to keep it ticking? Probably. Will you be able to boost the sales by double? Probably yes probably no.

Put it this way, do you have a colleague who's been there as long as you? Van he do the job as good as you? My point is that if you can do a good job that because you have the talent to do the job (in addition with experience) doesnt mean that you can do a good job becauee you stay there x year watching how it runs
 
Let's face it, we really don't know how much Giggs is involved in our background work at the moment. It wouldn't suprised me if he have a vital word on tactics and match preparations, LVG has a history to give opportunity to his assistant to manage the team - Mourinho was one who did that in the cup games under LVG at Barcelona.

The people around Giggs know the best what his role is and how good he could be as a manager. I am all for him to be our next manager if he keep the background staff that LVG will leave at our club because the transition will be much easier that way. It is also important how our team will do in this season and in next one, if LVG somehow fails in this and next season to guide us where we want to be (i don't think he will) i can't see Giggs being our next manager because he will be a part of the staff that failed to do their job. If we will be again a strong team and maybe PL winning team after next season i can see owners wanting to continue work that brought the succes back and appointing Giggs will be the most logical way of doing that.

Giggs is now 41 years old (42 in november), he is at the right age to began his manager career and if he has a leadership skills to do it i am not against appointing him. And we are back where we were, we don't know how good are his leadership skills, we don't know how good are his tactical skills, we don't know how much say he has with trasfers,... but the people around him who will decide if he is ready or not have all the informations to make the right decision. But one thing we know is that he is working on his career as a manager for quite a long time know, he got the badges a long time ago, he was involved under SAF in some important decisions, he was assistant under Moyes and is now assistant under LVG. He surely learned a lot by now.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
I'm happy to go on record as saying that if we do indeed allow Van Gaal to see through his contract and then replace him with Ryan Giggs, we'll see our club facing a Liverpool-like fall from grace on a long term basis.
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Let's start replying some of the fachts which lead you to believe that.

Von Mistelroum said:
Van Gaal is a good manager but is stubborn and not ideally cut out for this league. Under him we should make the top 4 but that's all I'd really expect (major competition wise) and I worry that we'll stagnate under his tactics.
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He has won the league in every club he managed before. For example his work at AZ was just as good as the work that Klopp did at Dortmund. AZ won Eredevise only once before him in the 80-81 season. How then you could came to conclusion that he can not win the league with us? His tactics were the start of Barca and Bayern we all know today. Ofcourse there were other managers who were important to those clubs after him but he build the structure, promoted the youth players and build the foundations.

Von Mistelroum said:
If Giggs is next in line I simply don't see it working out. He's never given an interview or seemed much like he really knows much about being a manager and always looks lost on the touchline. I also suspect that the club would stand by him for some time.
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He has given many interviews as a player and as a manager in his 4 matches. He also had the documentary being filmed about his time as a manager afte Moyes left (which was arguably not the best). But i don't know why this is important... What is important to me is that he looks like the only guy on the touchline who knows what he is doing and this gives me great confidence that LVG trust him a lot in managing our squad already. This argument is just not the best from you. And the club will give him time if he will get the results we wanted, we saw what happened to Moyes who failed at that.

Von Mistelroum said:
I can imagine that a few years of challenging for a top 4 spot, followed by a poor run under Giggs would see us becoming far less attractive to players. If Liverpool get Klopp then I think we'll fall behind yet further too. He's not the greatest but he's exactly what they need.

Hopefully we'll see sense before this happens though.
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This less attractive to players argument is based on that we will fallen as far as Liverpool had and i don't see it coming, any manager who will not reach the goals made by board will be sacked, simple as that. And tbf, Liverpool are still after all their seasons without CL and quarter a decade after they last time won PL the destination of many good players and as we can see good managers also.
If Liverpool get Klopp there is still a question mark how will he do it in England. He can flop the same as Giggs can and he can succed the same as Giggs can...
 
Don't care what Sir Alex says or wants - Giggs being the next manager would be a disaster. I'm very much hoping Ed Woodward does not make this mistake. I don't think he will.

The other thing is with Klopp coming in and sure to at least make Liverpool competitive again (not sure about winning anything at the moment) - and thus making top four even harder to achieve - I doubt Ed will take the chance and appoint a novice in Giggs. That would be the worse business decision ever.

Shocked that Sir Alex is letting his emotions and friendship with Giggs cloud his judgment. He's already had one disaster in Moyes, I sincerely hope the board takes no notice of his recommendations this time around.

On another related note - I suspect that the reason he chose Moyes was because he thought he was 'non-threatening' and once Giggs had learned the ropes, he could take over from him without too much trouble. I honestly believe this is why he chose Moyes. I don't think he was blind to the fact that Moyes would probably not going to win anything - hence the 'stand behind your manager' speech - but he thought that he would be 'steady' and keep us in the top 4 places. Obviously, he miscalculated.

Love the brilliant Sir Alex, but he should have no say on managers - he's fallible in his estimation of their abilities imo.
 
Jerch said:
If Liverpool get Klopp there is still a question mark how will he do it in England. He can flop the same as Giggs can and he can succed the same as Giggs can...
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So basically you're saying it's 50/50 to everything either it happens or it's not.
Let's appoint me as manager while we're at it. I'll do it for free and will make sure to check Caf's starting lineup everytime United play
 
fallengt said:
So basically you're saying it's 50/50 to everything either it happens or it's not.
Let's appoint me as manager while we're at it. I'll do it for free and will make sure to check Caf's starting lineup everytime United play
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No ofcourse it is not 50/50 but no one will 100% bring a success. It is up to owners who is the right guy and if they will think Giggs is the right one then i will not doubt their decision because they have a lot more information how good Giggs could be as a manager then me or any other poster on caf.
 
when you hear Giggs say he would have given Rio and Vida new contracts. Cleverly would probably be a mainstay in our midfield and Welbeck will be leading the line. To be honest, I would be very surprised if the Glazers entertain the idea after the Moyes debacle.
 
Jerch said:
No ofcourse it is not 50/50 but no one will 100% bring a success. It is up to owners who is the right guy and if they will think Giggs is the right one then i will not doubt their decision because they have a lot more information how good Giggs could be as a manager then me or any other poster on caf.
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LVG has a lot more information than us when it comes to our team and how football works, yet we regularly doubt his decisions. We doubted the owners' decision to appoint Moyes too. Doubt is good, it means we're actually thinking.
 
afrocentricity said:
Giggs is going to be LVGs successor, some of you need to accept this. Personally I can't wait to see how he does. I'm optimistic...
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You're probably right, although you can't expect anyone to be optimistic as he has never managed anywhere, let alone at the biggest club in the world. It would basically represent the entrenchment of mediocrity based on hiring someone on identity over qualifications.
 
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