Paying more is something that we should be considerably more angry about.
The 3pm U.K. Blackout
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
Definitely, it should cost £10/15 a month to watch all Premier league games live in the country where its played.
South West you say?
Remind me to send you the postcode to the Bob Lucas Stadium for Sat nav purposes ...
So why shouldn't they (have that option)? It's 2021 - if that's what they'd much prefer to do with their time, which is what is mostly being said here, then why are they being denied that perfectly valid thing when it's so easily achievable nowadays?
Some keep saying on here 'people don't get it. They don't understand'. People do understand. They're just disagreeing.
It seems a strange way to keep teams existing if we're almost forcing people to attend games against their will. That's how it's being portrayed - don't for God's sake give them a choice otherwise they'll get away! If people genuinely want to go to a lower league game, they will. No one is in any way stopping them. And anything under discussion being introduced wouldn't stop them from being able to go. But if they actually want to watch games on TV instead then they should have that choice as well. It seems weird in this day and age to try and almost force them into attending games if they'd much rather be doing something else (which is how the debate is being portrayed - it's their duty to attend lower league games to help the clubs, whether they want to or not!)
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I can understand the Saturday 3pm blackout, but what I don't get is why the PL doesn't simply play all of its matches on a Sunday? If the country has the capacity to stage 40ish professional football matches simultaneously at 3pm Saturday, then surely we can manage to stage 10 matches on a Sunday. Broadcasters have the technology to allow viewers to choose between matches that are on at the same time so you would only need 2 or 3 different kick off times.
You have massively missed the point I think.
Lower league sides have very loyal fan bases. As I mentioned earlier, Weymouth took 76 fans to Grimsby last week. Although that doesn't seem like a huge number, it's really good for 5th tier football.
That loyal fan base will always be there. We have 300 loyal season ticket holders and even in the dark ages (we almost went bust 10 years ago) our average gate was 650. Back to back promotions and that average gate rose to 1500 and this season it will likely be 2500/3000.
Just think about those figures for a second. That's around 1500 home supporters that fall in to the bracket of 'casual fan' these are the people more often than not that are happy to pay for their TV subscriptions and watch their chosen team 2 or 3 times a season. Nothing wrong with that. But now consider its pissing Down with rain and man united v Liverpool in on TV. We would lose that casual footfall.
Nobody is forcing anybody to do or not do anything, we're just pointing out there's a bigger picture.
Yes, I’m all for the Jolly Roger in these ridiculous circumstances. But I am a bit uninformed on rivers in my dotage. Might anyone be able to assist with a PM for me?
Many thanks in anticipation!
And others are just pointing out that part of that bigger picture, in 2021, is the availability of football on TV as a perfectly valid and alternative way to enjoy the sport we love.
And I've not 'missed the point'. Some people are so patronising on here. I've been a football fan all my life. I've been to plenty of lower league games when I was younger (Wigan) and have a soft spot for one or two lower league clubs that I look out for from afar. So I'm fully aware of the concept of an average crowd for a club, made up of loyal fans, and those attendances going up when the team is doing well (and playing at higher levels), and dipping down when the team is struggling (and in lower divisions) as those 'casual fans' drift away. That's basic stuff and insulting that people on here think anyone who doesn't agree with them mustn't even understand that.
The PL are actively looking to get around it by having a game every Friday and Monday night, and then 4 games on sat and Sun with them starting early doors to catch the eastern market live and late enough for the western market. They just won't have any during the blackout and so the issue is resolved for uk fans (and so more money for them) while also getting more live games on at times acceptable in China and the US.
I wasn't insulting you in any way to be honest.
I mean, now I think you're somewhat obnoxious, but I really wasn't insulting you before.
Am I the only that thinks the issue of smaller league clubs going extinct is easy? Put the 3 PM games on PPV but for a modest amount (e.g. £5) and use the proceeds to fund these small clubs, not increase Sky profits.
There's definitely a way but I am so happy I don't live in the UK nowadays and I'll be able to enjoy CR7's return on my TV for about 1/3 of what it would cost me to not see the game...
There's definitely a way but I am so happy I don't live in the UK nowadays and I'll be able to enjoy CR7's return on my TV for about 1/3 of what it would cost me to not see the game...
Does that work? The German version required a German bank account when I was there. Can't even stream legally when you try.
Sorry for the overreaction then. I've probably been on the thread far too much today (or yesterday, now), and seen a number of posts along the lines of 'you just don't get it' aimed at anyone questioning the blackout. Yours felt along the same lines, and I guess I misjudged the response. Sorry.
Sorry for the overreaction then. I've probably been on the thread far too much today (or yesterday, now), and seen a number of posts along the lines of 'you just don't get it' aimed at anyone questioning the blackout. Yours felt along the same lines, and I guess I misjudged the response. Sorry.
It's all good mate. But no I just come at it from a purely personal point of view as I love my club and also happen to work for them. Because of that I get to see the ticket sales and the correlation between results and average gate.
The reason that I thought you'd missed the point was the part of your post which suggested we wanted to force people through the turnstiles
I don't understand the idea that by not being able to watch my team play I'll go and pay to watch some lower league team play instead. If United play on a Saturday, I don't go and pay to watch someone else on the Sunday & vice versa, if United play on a Sunday I don't go and pay to watch someone else on a Saturday. Most people not paying to watch other teams aren't doing it because why would they pay to watch a team they're not interested in? 3pm blackout needs to go.
I can’t speak for all but I know fans of ‘elite teams’ who couldn’t care less about their local side(s) so I struggle to believe the average ‘elite club’ fan travels 200+ miles to support their hometown team in an away game. If that were the case attendances would be higher surely.
I also can’t come to grasps with ‘it isn’t in anyway shape of form a comparison’ but using it anyway. It doesn’t tell or even hint at what the impact would be if 3pm kick offs were televised & you could also attend games which is the point of people’s objections. What we do know is that your local team would struggle for viewers if attendance isn’t possible, partly due to an ageing fanbase.
You obviously come from a group of mates who have done this throughout your lives but thinking that 3 days in a row over a bank holiday weekend many could say to their families etc. they’ll be off on the lash watching football each day just isn’t realistic and family commitments aside I’m just not sure many people would want to do it. When this rule came in, football on TV was a novelty. There are so many more things to do with a Saturday now, I don’t think getting rid of the 3pm blackout would be the main reason people aren’t turning up to lower league games.
I’ve been to games throughout the pyramid & I genuinely think there’s a lot of ‘elite club’ supporters who also buy into the spectacle, the social media etc. that broadcasters feed into. Certain traditions of attending local games will be passed down through family & friendships but someone being introduced to football on FIFA & Sky TV isn’t the type of spectator that goes to non-league football games.
People heading off to watch their team play at 3pm watching the 12.30 kick off in the pub prior is certainly not abnormal but I seriously don’t think there is a great number of people sat in the pub at 2.30 saying ‘sod this let’s go to the local game’. It might be because I live in a city but if I chose to go to a local game at 3pm I’d have to be drinking locally to the ground or leave the pub at 2pm; it’s not a whimsical choice.
You & your mates are a great example, I don’t doubt there are other groups like yourselves. My thoughts are that if the number of people that would be lost was that great the lower leagues would be averaging larger attendances, far more ‘elite club’ fans don’t attend games than do at the moment. Some subsidise lower league attendances but the majority of people going to home games are supporters of the home team surely.
This is what I was thinking earlier tbf.
We pay far more for less. I remember a poster on here saying the EPL is like a throw in on a $7 [equivalent] subscription they get. We also now have to have 3 different subscription services to see all of a limited service.
Technically is it not legal to subscribe to other European satellite providers? Didn't the Premier League try and fail to sue some pub owners who did just that?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17150054
All you need is a mobile satellite dish. Hell of a lot cheaper than a Sky subscription too.
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The difference is ridiculous for a very simple reason. A comparison of 5th tier attendance between Germany and England has a massive asterisk that makes it useless I'd say. Teams in the English 5th division are the 96th to 119th best teams in the country, in the pyramid as there is only one league at each level. Because the German 4th division is regionalised into 5 leagues it contains 100 teams. This means that the best teams in the German 5th division is about 200th in the league pyramid and as there are 14 leagues in the 5th division assuming that they average 20 teams per league the worst side in the league is about the 500th best side in Germany. Throw in the B teams can play in leagues and really it would be a massive shock if it wasn't the case that the English 5th division had higher attendance.
The French regionalise their leagues at the fourth tier as well, the Spanish at the third tier and Italy is also at the third tier. England is unique in how long it takes to regionalise and it means that the quality of club in the 5th division is much higher and the attendance also should be. Throw in some league containing B teams and you can't really make valid attendance comparisons below the third division. Claiming that the difference is due to TV blackout rules and not the number of leagues at each level is completely wrong.
The amount of people that do this is being overstated I feel, I understand why people feel so strongly about it. But I honestly find it hard to imagine there are vast swathes of the population that go to lower league games simply because there's no football on the TV at 3pm on a Saturday.
Streaming has been fairly accessible for around 10+ years now, the people who want to watch 3pm PL games already are watching them. The vast majority of people who enjoy going to watch a team live on a Saturday afternoon I believe would continue to do so. So lifting the black-out would simply make it legal and slightly easier for fans to watch the 3pm games for those fans who are already inclined to watch them.
Having said that I don't actually care if the Black-out stays in place as streams are practically as good as TV at this point. Sadly I suspect attendances at football clubs in the lower divisions will continue to decline with or without the Black-out.
How do people have such high quality streams? I sometimes drop on but a lot of the time its awful.
Sport tv in Portugal for me to watch this one cert they will show it as every time they advertise the premier league games the Portugal players get more hype than the actual teams
It'd be good to see an actual study into the impact removing it would have on lower league teams.
I find it hard to imagine that the number of people who would opt to attend a lower league game rather than watching the PL game online, listening to the game on the radio or just doing any of the thousands of non-football things you could do to pass time at 3pm on a Saturday instead is all that large.
Also don't the games before and after the blackout impact attendance anyway? How easy is it to watch a game that lasts until around 2.30 and still make an entirely different game by 3.00? Or attend a 3pm game and still be home in time to see the 5.30 kick off?
But even if we accept that a significant number of people do attend lower league games because of the blackout, surely that spells long-term trouble for those lower league clubs? As time goes on and the percentage of the football audience who are internet-literate enough to circumvent the rule increases while the world becomes more and more connected, an enforced blackout becomes a more and more ineffective measure. Because as workable ideas go, a blackout within the UK of something that is so widely broadcast everywhere outside the UK seems ever-increasingly out of touch with how the world actually works.
I find it hard to imagine that the number of people who would opt to attend a lower league game rather than watching the PL game online, listening to the game on the radio or just doing any of the thousands of non-football things you could do to pass time at 3pm on a Saturday instead is all that large.
Also don't the games before and after the blackout impact attendance anyway? How easy is it to watch a game that lasts until around 2.30 and still make an entirely different game by 3.00? Or attend a 3pm game and still be home in time to see the 5.30 kick off?
But even if we accept that a significant number of people do attend lower league games because of the blackout, surely that spells long-term trouble for those lower league clubs? As time goes on and the percentage of the football audience who are internet-literate enough to circumvent the rule increases while the world becomes more and more connected, an enforced blackout becomes a more and more ineffective measure. Because as workable ideas go, a blackout within the UK of something that is so widely broadcast everywhere outside the UK seems ever-increasingly out of touch with how the world actually works.
I would genuinely be surprised if anyone under 30 doesn’t think this rule is outdated nonsense. The biggest pushback usually comes from the older generations in my experience.
I am a Manchester united supporter. If United aren't available on telly then I switch to something else that provides equal entertainment (Serie A or a TV series). I would not waste my time watching some third rated team playing some sort of rugby against some other pathetic team. Its as silly as like switching to Paw Patrol because Money Heist is not available. It ain't gonna happen
Customers pay good money to watch their team live. They should be provided with the service.
Customers pay good money to watch their team live. They should be provided with the service.
It needs to be scrapped, legacy fans are holding all of the UK fans of the future back.
Surely they can’t be massive Utd fans? I don’t get how any Utd fan can miss a game unless it’s forced really.,
The English football pyramid is one of, if not the most, successful in the world. It does something right.
If they live in the UK, can't get tickets and aren't criminals then they cant watch it.
This is nonsense don't try pulling some top red card on United supporters because they don't look for illegal streams. Growing up if I couldn't go to Old Trafford then me and my friends or Mother would go and watch Rochdale, that doesn't mean I'm not a massive United fan.
As far as I'm aware it's not a crime to watch an illegal stream. Only hosting one is the illegal part.
Younger fans will know how to watch regardless of the blackout.
So it'll be unsustainable regardless of what the authorities want.
Just like how music streaming is now ubiquitous because 20 years ago Napster etc let everyone get music free. So they adapted.
So it'll be unsustainable regardless of what the authorities want.
Just like how music streaming is now ubiquitous because 20 years ago Napster etc let everyone get music free. So they adapted.
DAZN will work with certain VPN's.
Signing up and payment, if you know someone in that country maybe. There are ways around it but you will have to do some homework on it. There are also ways to buy logins, again you need to know where to look.
If fans don't attend lower league games it's because they don't want to, not because they're watching two teams they don't support on a bad stream instead.
Personally having the option to watch the games legally on TV wouldn't make me less likely to go to matches. A screen is a serviceable substitute but doesn't compare to being there yourself, and I think enough people would agree that ticket sales wouldn't take a hit.
Personally having the option to watch the games legally on TV wouldn't make me less likely to go to matches. A screen is a serviceable substitute but doesn't compare to being there yourself, and I think enough people would agree that ticket sales wouldn't take a hit.
That’s irrelevant though. We now live in a time where you can very easily locate streams of decent quality pretty easily. I reckon at most I miss 1 or 2 Utd games a season and that’s usually something out of my control. I’m a Utd fan more than a football fan, if utd are playing that’s where my interest lies and I know I’m not the only one.
Streams are much easier to access these days. I get that some of the older generation (I.e my Dad) does seem unable to find them as easily though. Can’t see that as an issue for people 30 and below.
Illegal streams. Not everyone will watch them.
It's not even a question of ease. It takes about 20 seconds to get a decent stream.
Believe it or not a lot of people aren't interested in streaming a match, illegal or not. I think my dad would prefer listening on the radio over an illegal stream on his pc!
You're probably right about the age thing, there's an enormous sense of entitlement that doesn't exist in most older folks.
Good example. And also shows how big clubs have already got around the ban to meet the needs of their TV fans in most circumstances. In the UK we've also had plenty of examples of lower league clubs playing at the same time as big midweek Champions League games and the impact this has had on attendances.
Ultimately it comes down to principles. Beyond your own club, if you place some value in football as the national sport - the hundreds of teams across the country and the central role these play in their communities - then relatively painless measures like this are a small contribution towards ensuring such clubs survive to retain this great football ecosystem we've built up over the last century and a half.